Trade Deadline Approach

What should the Sox do at the deadline?

  • Sell sell sell

    Votes: 76 17.8%
  • Buy buy buy

    Votes: 60 14.1%
  • Mostly stand pat (perhaps sell guys like Duvall, Kike)

    Votes: 267 62.7%
  • Other?

    Votes: 23 5.4%

  • Total voters
    426

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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And for each of these deals, there was some contingent of fans who were deeply upset by the loss of the prospects. Some people consistently overvalue unrealized potential without considering how few of these players actually are truly impactful. To date, the answer is not many and certainly not enough to forego trying to contend.
Even offseason deals involving legitimate can't miss prospects often don't turn out all that well for the team receiving the prospects.

Kopech and Moncada for Sale. Even with Sale's numerous injuries, Moncada has had only 2 good years out of 7, and Kopech is 14-23 with an ERA+ of 107. Sale has gone 45-27 with an ERA+ of 143 in Boston, and that's with all his injuries reducing his impact.
 

jon abbey

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Plenty of veterans end up as disasters too, and when they flame out, they are much pricier as well as unable to be sent to AAA.
 

BringBackMo

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Good lord.... half the posters here want to see a great roster on paper rather than a team playing baseball it seems. They have TONS of cash and good prospect depth... they can actually address the '24 team in the offseason for once.
This strikes me as an unfair mischaracterization.
Just for my OCD’s sake, Vazquez wasn’t traded for McGuire. But each of those trades seems like the type they will try to replicate today.
Apologies. Sloppy on my part. Not a direct trade of the two players, just meant that they swapped one out for the other. Good catch.
 

joe dokes

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Because they need external help at 2B, SP, and middle relief beyond who is coming back.
Definitely agree on 2B. Fortunately, the bar has been set pretty low to constitute improvement. I think another starter might indirectly add to the middle relief group by lessening the need for an opener, or the need to "save" a guy like Murphy for 4-5 inning appearances which also makes him unavailable as a "true" reliever. That said, if the plan is to let Pivetta keep starting, that means only one bullpen game per trip through the rotation. That, rather than 2 bullpen games per 5, might be a routine that can last until some reinforcements return over the next 2 weeks.
 

JM3

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Because they need external help at 2B, SP, and middle relief beyond who is coming back.
If healthy (always a big if), they would seem to have plenty of pitching & only a top end pitcher would necessarily be an upgrade...

Bello
Paxton
Sale
Crawford
Pivetta (or Houck or Whitlock)

Jansen
Martin
Schreiber
Winck
Houck
Whitlock
Murphy
Bernardino
Rodriguez

2nd they could definitely use, but at what cost?
 

curly2

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It will not net the Sox anything meaningful, but if they’re not going to use Bobby Dalbec, it would be nice to send him to a team that might play him.
 

E5 Yaz

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"We felt our best trade acquisitions would be Trevor Story, and Chris Sale, and Ree McGuire, and Garrett Whitlock, and Tanner Houck and ..."
 
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joe dokes

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2nd they could definitely use, but at what cost?
I'm gonna trust the GM on that one. The bar for improvement may be low, but if it's really only a small increment above what Arroyo/Reyes/Chang can give, then it may not be worth the going rate.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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That works, provided the team doesn’t completely wilt the rest of this series against Seattle and against the Jays. Not sure how much any trade could impact the next 5 or so games. As long as the Sox can win 2-3 of them, they will be contending.
 

RedOctober3829

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If healthy (always a big if), they would seem to have plenty of pitching & only a top end pitcher would necessarily be an upgrade...

Bello
Paxton
Sale
Crawford
Pivetta (or Houck or Whitlock)

Jansen
Martin
Schreiber
Winck
Houck
Whitlock
Murphy
Bernardino
Rodriguez

2nd they could definitely use, but at what cost?
Dylan Cease would fit the bill of a high end starter who is cost controlled for 2 more years. If Bloom is interested in players with term, he’s a guy I’d certainly target and pay for.
 

RG33

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"We felt our best trade acquisitions would be Trevor Story, and Chris Sale, and Ree McGuire, and Garrett Whitlock, and Trevor Houck and ..."
I for one am opposed to trading Tanner Houck for Trevor Houck. T-Rev doesn’t seem to have great numbers . . . .IMG_2155.jpeg
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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Why would anyone accept this annual refrain? We are a big market team with the most expensive tickets in baseball.

Not taking a shot at you here, I just hate this line we hear every year from this management team.
No shot felt. Grudgingly realize would have been a better choice than accept.
 

chawson

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That works, provided the team doesn’t completely wilt the rest of this series against Seattle and against the Jays. Not sure how much any trade could impact the next 5 or so games. As long as the Sox can win 2-3 of them, they will be contending.
That Jays series lines up for us to face Manoah, Berrios and Bassitt. I'd love to see us grab a 2B who can hit RHP better than Arroyo/Reyes have this year. And I think Turner at 2B is playing with fire.

The market is so bare, though. There are the Cards guys (Gorman, Edman, Donovan), the Tigers guys (McKinstry, Maton, Short), and maybe Michael Massey?

Are the Mets listening on Jeff McNeil? I know they just extended him in January, but he's been pretty bad this year (and apparently openly frustrated, according to this Mets blog), and besides, they've got Acuña as well as Mauricio now.
 

sezwho

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If you believe in Duran, you probably pull the trigger there depending on the rest.
Considering we now add one or more toolsy young up the middle position players every year I’m more ok dealing from that deck for a pitcher than I thought I’d be.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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I've been advocating on Cease for a while now (not that it is some great "take"), but just in that it's exactly the kind of move I think the Sox are positioned to make and absolutely should make (trading in some prospect chips at areas that the farm system is deep for something that there is nowhere in the organization - a top half of the rotation starter for 2023 and 2024 and beyond to pair with Bello).

Obviously BTV is not a GM, but Cease (51.1) for Bleis, Yorke and Walter (51.5) checks out almost exactly. The Red Sox would probably need to add something for the ChiSox to actually make the deal, but Bleis and Yorke could serve as reasonable centerpieces toward discussing a deal - at least if Chi is at all open to actually moving him for somewhat fair value.

Logan Gilbert is another name that I'd love to see the Sox pursue, but he's probably even less realistic than Cease.

Edit - Keller is a good call too @grimshaw
 

grimshaw

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I'm basically Keller or bust. I'd include Rafaela and Yorke and a few lower level guys. I'm not seeing much for 2b out there.
 

TheYellowDart5

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Have to imagine at this point, with the Rays, Blue Jays, Rangers and Astros all improving, that Bloom et al are probably disinclined to buy in the face of tougher competition and worsening odds. I'd guess the rest of the afternoon is spent either soft selling or standing pat with maybe a minor addition like a Michael Lorenzen.

ETA: This is also less than encouraging.

View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1686451158418931712
 

BornToRun

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Have to imagine at this point, with the Rays, Blue Jays, Rangers and Astros all improving, that Bloom et al are probably disinclined to buy in the face of tougher competition and worsening odds. I'd guess the rest of the afternoon is spent either soft selling or standing pat with maybe a minor addition like a Michael Lorenzen.

ETA: This is also less than encouraging.

View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1686451158418931712
Bring it. Can’t win shit in this league without going through the good teams, anyway.
 

jbupstate

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Have to imagine at this point, with the Rays, Blue Jays, Rangers and Astros all improving, that Bloom et al are probably disinclined to buy in the face of tougher competition and worsening odds. I'd guess the rest of the afternoon is spent either soft selling or standing pat with maybe a minor addition like a Michael Lorenzen.

ETA: This is also less than encouraging.

View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1686451158418931712
Who is replacing Bichette and Romano for the Jays?
 

MetSox1

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Have to imagine at this point, with the Rays, Blue Jays, Rangers and Astros all improving, that Bloom et al are probably disinclined to buy in the face of tougher competition and worsening odds. I'd guess the rest of the afternoon is spent either soft selling or standing pat with maybe a minor addition like a Michael Lorenzen.

ETA: This is also less than encouraging.

View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1686451158418931712
Honestly the longer this goes the more I'm thinking Chaim never believed this squad should contend anyway.

Still feel like Verdugo is this years Vazquez. No intention of keeping him around long term, has value. If selling is really paying this well, and you don't believe Chaim, go do it.

Maybe I'm just disgusted after watching bullpen game after bullpen game the last few weeks. 2-3 more wins and I think it would be hard to be anything but go for it now. But didn't make the move early, which sets up to sell late.

Hoping I eat my words.
 

Fishy1

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Honestly the longer this goes the more I'm thinking Chaim never believed this squad should contend anyway.

Still feel like Verdugo is this years Vazquez. No intention of keeping him around long term, has value. If selling is really paying this well, and you don't believe Chaim, go do it.

Maybe I'm just disgusted after watching bullpen game after bullpen game the last few weeks. 2-3 more wins and I think it would be hard to be anything but go for it now. But didn't make the move early, which sets up to sell late.

Hoping I eat my words.
Why are you disgusted by the bullpen games? They've been winning them regularly. Lots of good teams are using bullpen games.
 

joe dokes

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Honestly the longer this goes the more I'm thinking Chaim never believed this squad should contend anyway.
So, in order to validate his "belief," if they were leading the division by 80 games, he'd DFA all the players? Or, he gets down on his knerd-knees, admits he was wrong, and tries to do what's best for the team in spite of his catastrophic wrong-ness? IOW--What difference does it make what he "believed" at some other time.?
 

TheYellowDart5

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Who is replacing Bichette and Romano for the Jays?
Jordan Hicks (acquired over the weekend) and Paul DeJong (acquired about two hours ago). I don't think Toronto is the biggest roadblock, though — it's more that the three best teams in the AL all got better.
 

bosox62

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If you believe in Duran, you probably pull the trigger there depending on the rest.
Just wondering if any consideration has been given to moving Duran back to second base, his college position, at least through the end of the season. Or is that going to thwart his outfield development?
 

joe dokes

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Jordan Hicks (acquired over the weekend) and Paul DeJong (acquired about two hours ago). I don't think Toronto is the biggest roadblock, though — it's more that the three best teams in the AL all got better.
So, on paper anyway, that enables them to stay right where they are, rather than "getting better."
 

Max Power

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Just wondering if any consideration has been given to moving Duran back to second base, his college position, at least through the end of the season. Or is that going to thwart his outfield development?
That sounds like something you'd do in Spring Training. But then you don't know whether to have targeted a CF or 2B in the offseason.
 

JM3

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Red Sox had a 3.72 ERA in July, 8th best in MLB.
In the "bullpen" game, which included Chris Murphy & others, they allowed 14 earned runs in 45 innings for a 2.80 ERA in those 5 games (including 6 of those 14 runs in the 1st such game on July 4th).

I don't think the bullpen game has been their primary problem.
 

RS2004foreever

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Via Chris Cotillo.
Chris Sale starting, Trevor Story playing shortstop and batting second for WooSox in Syracuse today.
 

JM3

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Now if they could have just gotten rid of those pesky James Paxton games...20 earned runs in 34 innings for a 5.29 ERA.
 

MetSox1

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Why are you disgusted by the bullpen games? They've been winning them regularly. Lots of good teams are using bullpen games.
Sure, but generally not two rotation spots. The innings worked out, but bullpen arms get tired. Just because they were effective innings now doesn't mean it's wise long term. How many other teams are rolling out two bullpen games and a #5 starter (and I'll admit, Kutter has outperformed) and call themselves a contender?

This team has known holes. But not huge holes. With the guys you were getting back, and a couple of arms, yes they would need to be betting on health of Sale and Pax, which is tough to bet on, but the lineup looks good with Story, there was a path...

I dunno. I'd like to win now if there's a path and there appears to be one. I'd have liked to see him be aggressive.

I live outside Philly now. Trusting the very long term process doesn't always work. For us to pass up this window that opened... Here's hoping Chaim is right and has things set for the next 5-10 years.
 

TheYellowDart5

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View: https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/1686458102969679894


Lorenzen is a pure rental and fetched the No. 7 prospect in Philly's system, a 20-year-old Taiwanese second baseman in High A; 40+ Future Value per FanGraphs, comparable to Meidroth or Eddinson Paulino and a step above Abreu/Hamilton/Bonaci.

Which is to say that if that's the price for pitching, I don't think Bloom is going to do any buying and will probably dangle Paxton to see if anyone overpays.
 

JM3

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Bello games were 14 earned runs in 35 innings, 3.60 ERA.

Pivetta games (where he was bulk role or starter) were 13 earned runs in 44 innings (6 of those yesterday), 2.66 ERA.

Crawford games were 23 earned runs in 45 innings, 4.60 ERA.

So for July...

Pivetta games 2.66 ERA
Bullpen games 2.80 ERA
Bello games 3.60 ERA
Crawford games 4.60 ERA
Paxton games 5.29 ERA

So the clear solution is to move on from that Paxton guy & give the bullpen more run.

Kidding. Like 98%.
 

jcormjmac

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It is me or does it seem quiet across the whole thing right now . no rumors not a lot of scuttle is seems with just over 2 hours left .... maybe just me but this day seems like NFL trade dead line activity
 

joe dokes

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Bello games were 14 earned runs in 35 innings, 3.60 ERA.

Pivetta games (where he was bulk role or starter) were 13 earned runs in 44 innings (6 of those yesterday), 2.66 ERA.

Crawford games were 23 earned runs in 45 innings, 4.60 ERA.

So for July...

Pivetta games 2.66 ERA
Bullpen games 2.80 ERA
Bello games 3.60 ERA
Crawford games 4.60 ERA
Paxton games 5.29 ERA

So the clear solution is to move on from that Paxton guy & give the bullpen more run.

Kidding. Like 98%.
I think this post should be pinned for handy ammo when he *is* traded!
 

rodderick

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View: https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/1686458102969679894


Lorenzen is a pure rental and fetched the No. 7 prospect in Philly's system, a 20-year-old Taiwanese second baseman in High A; 40+ Future Value per FanGraphs, comparable to Meidroth or Eddinson Paulino and a step above Abreu/Hamilton/Bonaci.

Which is to say that if that's the price for pitching, I don't think Bloom is going to do any buying and will probably dangle Paxton to see if anyone overpays.
Have we really reached the point where giving up Chase Meidroth for a solid starter for the stretch run is seen as something Bloom wouldn't consider doing? Because if so I'm kinda worried.

Not saying I wanted the Red Sox to make that trade or that they are in position to do so, but that to me sound like an adequate price to pay, or at the very least nothing that the Phillies should be agonizing over.