Here's a question -- if the Sox end up with a lefty-heavy rotation (EdRo, Miley, Owens) next year, does it still make sense to keep a LOOGY-type like Layne in the bullpen?
AB in DC said:Here's a question -- if the Sox end up with a lefty-heavy rotation (EdRo, Miley, Owens) next year, does it still make sense to keep a LOOGY-type like Layne in the bullpen?
AB in DC said:Here's a question -- if the Sox end up with a lefty-heavy rotation (EdRo, Miley, Owens) next year, does it still make sense to keep a LOOGY-type like Layne in the bullpen?
geoduck no quahog said:
That's: - - + + - + - + + - - + + + -
15 Starts, 8 plus ones and 7 shitty ones, with most of the runs in the shitty ones scored after the 2nd time through the order. Either a classic number 5 starter or a guy who doesn't do well several times through. It could be pitch selection, fatigue, or ability.
Enough to drive you nuts? What do the Sox do with this guy next year?
alwyn96 said:
I don't know, I think that's basically just what an ok starter looks like. For his career he's basically been around a league averagish starter, sometimes a little above, sometimes a little below, who can eat a bunch of innings. Weirdly enough, fWAR has him tied for 13th best starter in the AL.
This has to be the third or fourth post suggesting the EdRo goes back to AAA .. What are you people smoking? At this point Rodriquez is better than Porcello and Kelly and quite possibly Buchholz. He's exactly the kind of pitcher they are trying to aquire .. Young, cost controlled with tons of upside.Tyrone Biggums said:Miley is solid but the Sox could certainly do better. They cannot lose out on Price in free agency.
Think about this. The Boston Red Sox could essentially win 80 games this year with Hanley and Panda as black holes and an awful rotation until Porcello and Kelly turned it around in August.
Price
Trade Target
Buchholz
Porcello
Kelly
Look at a team like San Diego and see if they are willing to unload Ross. Carrasco is another option. If Dombrowski wants to trade bad contracts then maybe Verlander for Panda comes into play, but I think the ship sailed on that one.
I think Edro could potentially start the year in AAA. But maybe he doesnt and Kelly gets moved to the pen. Who knows.
It's not the best case scenario that he goes down but if you keep Buchholz and get two upper tier guys by trade or FA then it just becomes a question of who goes. Kelly had a dominant stretch and could also be sent to the pen hence leaving room for Edro. Porcello makes 20 million so you know he isn't getting moved anytime soon either.BCsMightyJoeYoung said:This has to be the third or fourth post suggesting the EdRo goes back to AAA .. What are you people smoking? At this point Rodriquez is better than Porcello and Kelly and quite possibly Buchholz. He's exactly the kind of pitcher they are trying to aquire .. Young, cost controlled with tons of upside.
So you want to use an inferior SP because he makes more money?Tyrone Biggums said:It's not the best case scenario that he goes down but if you keep Buchholz and get two upper tier guys by trade or FA then it just becomes a question of who goes. Kelly had a dominant stretch and could also be sent to the pen hence leaving room for Edro. Porcello makes 20 million so you know he isn't getting moved anytime soon either.
I'll be surprised if DD doesn't try to do something dramatic this off season. And he seems to like aces. I think he's going to try to get a #1.AB in DC said:With all the good SP candidates already on the roster, I'm honestly starting to wonder if the Sox should be signing a big-name starting pitcher in the first place. Am I alone?
Snodgrass'Muff said:If they can land Price or Cueto to head up the rotation...
Heating up in the bullpen said:
IP H R ER BB K WHIP ERA
2015 vs. AL 109.0 121 57 55 25 77 1.34 4.54
The owner of this stat line is not someone to head up a rotation. I hope the chase for an ace does not lead to Johnny Cueto - that would feel to me like a Pablo/Hanley signing all over again.
Edited for formatting
This is what I hope other teams see, too. Because that will drive Cueto's price and years way, way down.Heating up in the bullpen said:
IP H R ER BB K WHIP ERA
2015 vs. AL 109.0 121 57 55 25 77 1.34 4.54
The owner of this stat line is not someone to head up a rotation. I hope the chase for an ace does not lead to Johnny Cueto - that would feel to me like a Pablo/Hanley signing all over again.
Edited for formatting
Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:I'll be surprised if DD doesn't try to do something dramatic this off season. And he seems to like aces. I think he's going to try to get a #1.
AB in DC said:With all the good SP candidates already on the roster, I'm honestly starting to wonder if the Sox should be signing a big-name starting pitcher in the first place. Am I alone?
Well not quite. But if you are paying a 26-27 year old pitcher 20 million to start and he showed real signs of turning it around then he takes precedent over the young gun that just got you 10 wins and had spurts of elite pitching. Edro could still use some refining whether it's in Pawtucket or not, point is that he's nowhere near a finished product. Personally I would like him in the majors. The point I was making before was a prediction. I believe him Kelly and Owens will be fighting for the final spot in the rotation since DD will sign one top arm and probably trade for another.BCsMightyJoeYoung said:So you want to use an inferior SP because he makes more money?
I can see one SP coming in but not two. When you have guys like EdRo and Owens and Johnson at or near The Show you don't want to clutter up the rotation with more Porcellos.
I know folks are dreaming about the likes of Sonny Grey but that's a pipe dream IMO. So you go all in on Price. He just costs money - not even a draft pick.
So ..
Price
Buchholz
EdRo
Porcello
And one of Miley, Kelly, Owens, Johnson, Wright (in no particular order)
Hell maybe even Rich Hill.
My personal preference would be for Owens in the 5th spot. Regardless they have a ton of depth.
Rutledge bunted on his own, offering at a 2-and-1 pitch against a starter who was tiring. Lovullo has encouraged players to try to break games open in such situations, not give themselves up.
“He felt like he was in a comfortable situation to bunt. I can’t quite walk up to home plate and get in his ear and tell him not to,” Lovullo said. “I of course explained to him that once the at-bat turned around and he got the count in his favor he could have done a little damage.”
joe dokes said:Righting the ship might include some additional classroom time:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/10/01/yankees-silence-red-sox-clinch-wild-card-berth/HEp6SB0VlF7vp6r1gW2eBK/story.html?p1=Article_Recommended_ArticleText
Buzzkill Pauley said:
Yeah, well, it's pretty hard to have confidence that your team can "break the game open" if you're a hitter looking at last night's lineup card.
Bogaerts intentional walk was one instance for sure, but Rutledge bunting and playing for small ball runs is probably also attributable to Lovullo giving Papi and Pedroia the night off (even if resting both is warranted and necessary), shelving Sandoval and Ramirez, and thus having no veteran hitter anywhere 1-9 except the festering corpse of Allen Craig.
This is the fourth time I can remember a player bunting and Lovullo saying after the game he didn't want them to. The current team philosophy apparently is "don't bunt, unless you really really think it's a good idea, but even then I will throw you under the bus if it doesn't work."joe dokes said:Righting the ship might include some additional classroom time:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/10/01/yankees-silence-red-sox-clinch-wild-card-berth/HEp6SB0VlF7vp6r1gW2eBK/story.html?p1=Article_Recommended_ArticleText
Tyrone Biggums said:Well not quite. But if you are paying a 26-27 year old pitcher 20 million to start and he showed real signs of turning it around then he takes precedent over the young gun that just got you 10 wins and had spurts of elite pitching. Edro could still use some refining whether it's in Pawtucket or not, point is that he's nowhere near a finished product. Personally I would like him in the majors. The point I was making before was a prediction. I believe him Kelly and Owens will be fighting for the final spot in the rotation since DD will sign one top arm and probably trade for another.
Boston has a lot of depth that could be used to bring back a really solid #2. It's that ace that is alluding the Sox.
Not everyone is going to be healthy. Not everyone of Porcello/Miley/Kelly/Buchholz have truly figured it out. Not all of Rodriguez, Owens, and Johnson are going to succeed at the ML level.AB in DC said:
But is this a good thing? Fangraphs rates the Sox starters 6th in the AL this year despite:
- constantly being left in games too long because the bullpen was so bad
- three months without Buccholz
- two months without EdRo
- three months of Rick Porcello apparently experimenting with a new pitch rather than sticking with his strength
- two months of inexperienced catchers attempting to call a game (which probably contributed to Porcello's issues at the very least)
- two months of Justin Masterson
- Joe Kelly not figuring out how to pitch until the second half
With all of these issues seemingly fixed going into 2016 (health permitting), plus continued growth from Henry Owens and maybe Brian Johnson, maybe this really isn't an area to devote a lot more resources. I don't know.
Trading for a cost-controlled pitcher makes sense, but Price is significantly better than Gray and better than any other "cost-controlled" guy as well except Sale. Gray's numbers are buoyed by his home park.Minneapolis Millers said:Rather than go after Price, who will at minimum require a Scherzer-like 7 year deal for $200M (with far less deferred money, I bet), I think the Sox should cash in some of their mL and cost-controlled chips to get a much cheaper and younger ace than Price. People keep calling Gray a "pipedream" but I don't see why. Beane's always been aggressive, and dealing Gray would be exactly like dealing Donaldson. You just have to offer him the right package. We have a surplus of OF prospects (Margot), good young lefty SP prospects on the cusp (Owens or Johnson), reasonably priced/cost-controlled young vets (Miley, Kelly), and a plethora of prospect lottery tickets. And if not Gray, then maybe Sale. Or they trade hitting for Mets' pitching.
If Sandoval doesn't, I hope he likes being Travis Shaw's backup.soxhop411 said:@alexspeier: Lovullo says Sox asked Hanley to come to spring training 15-20 lbs lighter. Also asked Sandoval to report lighter.
Wonder if Sandoval actually does come lighter.
Buzzkill Pauley said:This is what I hope other teams see, too. Because that will drive Cueto's price and years way, way down.
Why?ArgentinaSOXfan said:Four players I would look to trade away if I were the Sox GM (yeah, dont reply saying "thank God you are not"):
Hanley
Sandoval
Rusney Castillo
Owens
Dombrowski would be lucky to get rid of two of Hanley/Sandoval/Castillo.
I bet Dombrowski would have no trouble finding a taker for Castillo's deal. "Monster," at least in the way you are implying, is not an apt description of his contract.mfried said:One-word answer: money. Of the 4 Owens is the only one without a monster contract.
Red(s)HawksFan said:I bet Dombrowski would have no trouble finding a taker for Castillo's deal. "Monster," at least in the way you are implying, is not an apt description of his contract.
mfried said:Castillo's deal is hefty for what he has shown at the mlb level.