It was discussed in the sense that there was some idle speculation that concluded that it was unlikely to deserve more than idle speculation.It was already discussed somewhere on here, maybe the bullpen thread. It's not going to happen.
It was discussed in the sense that there was some idle speculation that concluded that it was unlikely to deserve more than idle speculation.It was already discussed somewhere on here, maybe the bullpen thread. It's not going to happen.
This is the purpose of Clay moving into a high leverage setup role. I don't agree with it but we'll see how it plays out.Crazy thought, but given the bullpen concerns, could Kopech be an answer? Its probably a gamble seeing he is only in A+ and lacks secondary pitches, but 100+ mph fast balls out of the pen could be valuable if he can command it. I know putting him on the 40 man is an issue, but the gamble could have a high payoff, Like I said, its a crazy thought but the pen is rather scary
I had this chat with a couple of friends yesterday. One said NO WAY, the other said WHY NOT.Kopech would be a gutsy move. If that idea is crossing DD's mind, Kopech should go up to AAA and pitch a few games in relief over the next week.
I think Scott deserves a look over Ramirez at this point. Shepherd's lack of K's would concern me, without more context, though he did have 4 in 3 innings tonight.Workman has been busy at AA getting lit up like a Christmas tree, probably out of the running for a September role with the Sox.
Elias, Hembree, and Kelly are locks.
I suspect Noe Ramirez will also get the call, but I'm more curious in seeing if one of Martin, Shepherd or Scott could help out.
Kopech would be a gutsy move. If that idea is crossing DD's mind, Kopech should go up to AAA and pitch a few games in relief over the next week.
It would mean spending option years to send him to AA and AAA which means they only have one option year after that. He'd have a very short time on the shuttle.I had this chat with a couple of friends yesterday. One said NO WAY, the other said WHY NOT.
Yes, a really analytical conversation.
He's not currently walking a lot of guys, so he can apparently throw strikes.
Question would be if those strikes catch too much of the plate that Major league guys will tattoo him, even at 100+ mph.
What are the roster implications? Is it too early for Kopech to need protecting this offseason?
And are there others who do need protection so eating that 40 man slot early becomes problematic?
I agree though, would be gutsy.
You can check out the July/August minor league thread for my running commentary on Kopech's last start. He seems to have a perfectly good slider at this point, to go with perhaps the best fastball I've ever seen, it was really like watching Nolan Ryan in the mid 70s good. Just no chance; no one pulled the ball, even foul, in 7 innings. He could pitch in a major league bullpen with what he's got. Whether it's a good move all things considered, I'm not sure.
Let's put it less hyperbolically. Last year Lucas Giolito was at the ballpark next door to my house. I saw se weak of his starts. He has a very bright future. Michael Kopech right now is not playing the same game that Lucas Gioliito was playing at this time last year. He's that much better.
JP: Do you think Kopech could be an effective reliever for the Red Sox in September?
Klaw: I brought this up somewhere yesterday – podcast? – but I think it’s a stretch. He’s killing guys with one pitch, and yes it’s an 80 fastball, but big league hitters will get to that.
I'm not sure how you're coming to that conclusion. If he stayed up in the majors through the end of the year, he wouldn't burn any and would have 3 left. I'm not sure how you have eliminated the second one, let alone the first. Maybe I'm missing something.It would mean spending option years to send him to AA and AAA which means they only have one option year after that. He'd have a very short time on the shuttle.
It's possible I'm misunderstanding the rules, but I got there by assuming he'd spend a year in AA in 2017 and at least start the year in AAA in 2018 requiring an option each year. He could come up next year and stay or he could come up in 2018 and stay, but if not, he only has 2018 and 2019 on the shuttle before we have to make a fish or cut bait decision in 2020. A lot of people ride the shuttle a lot longer.I'm not sure how you're coming to that conclusion. If he stayed up in the majors through the end of the year, he wouldn't burn any and would have 3 left. I'm not sure how you have eliminated the second one, let alone the first. Maybe I'm missing something.
You dont even need the injury replacement anymore. The rules were changed so its just anyone on the 40. I think the "replace an injured guy with anyone in the organization" thing is still there, but its not necessary any more. so Kelly is automatically eligible. Castillo and Craig, however . . . . . .You can add anyone in the organization to the playoff roster for an injured player. Don't need to be on the current 25 man roster nor on the 40 man roster (I guess the commissioner has to approve it, however). So, Joe Kelly would be eligible.
You're right, Shepherd isn't happening. Just took a look and he has really struggled the last few weeks. His first 4 months at Portland/Pawtucket were encouraging, but he needs another year.I think Scott deserves a look over Ramirez at this point. Shepherd's lack of K's would concern me, without more context, though he did have 4 in 3 innings tonight.
Options only get burned when a player gets sent down to the minors from the majors. Call ups have nothing to do with it.It's possible I'm misunderstanding the rules, but I got there by assuming he'd spend a year in AA in 2017 and at least start the year in AAA in 2018 requiring an option each year. He could come up next year and stay or he could come up in 2018 and stay, but if not, he only has 2018 and 2019 on the shuttle before we have to make a fish or cut bait decision in 2020. A lot of people ride the shuttle a lot longer.
I wouldn't spend any time arguing for Kopech, I don't feel that strongly about him being called up, but as others have mentioned, technically no options are burnt if you are not sent down.It would mean spending option years to send him to AA and AAA which means they only have one option year after that. He'd have a very short time on the shuttle.
You can't get to the majors without being called up.Options only get burned when a player gets sent down to the minors from the majors. Call ups have nothing to do with it.
Do you have a source to back that up? I've been looking and the only reference I can find to optioning a guy at the end of spring training is this:That's how it works, yes. Only if you are called up and sent down during the same active season does it burn an option. Sending them down during the offseason or at the end of spring traing also does not burn an option if they were on the 25 man the previous year.
And it disagrees with you. Now that's not an official source, nor is it a nationally recognized expert. The link is here (http://riveraveblues.com/2009/05/understanding-option-years-12285/)The most important thing to understand is that a player doesn’t even have to be called up to the majors to use up an option. If he’s on the 40-man roster and is assigned to a minor league club out ofSpring Training (like Chris Garcia, Mike Dunn, Steven Jackson, and Anthony Claggett this year), it burns an option. That’s why Chien-Ming Wang is out of options, even though he’s never been returned to the minors since being called up in May 2005.
I'd appreciate it if you could find it. I've just been looking through the CBA and can't find anything like it.From years of reading it posted with links in this forum, and having read the pertinent parts of the CBA.
The CBA is online.
I will look it up when I get home, but I know that's how it works.
I'd appreciate it if you could find it. I've just been looking through the CBA and can't find anything like it.
This is wrong. First, there is no sending down in the off-season...there is only the 40-man roster and the organizational roster (where all the guys who aren't on the 40-man reside). If a player is on the 40-man, he's on the 40-man, period.That's how it works, yes. Only if you are called up and sent down during the same active season does it burn an option. Sending them down during the offseason or at the end of spring traing also does not burn an option if they were on the 25 man the previous year.
Yes.One question though.. If we call him up now and next year he spends exactly 19 days in the minors then he does not burn an option right? Just want to be absolutely clear about this. Sorry for the confusion.
He has a reliable second pitch. Anyone saying he doesn't hasn't watched him lately. Those folks, like the Keith Law chat outtake above, are just parroting what they wrote last offseason.Yes.
But considering they most likely want him to continue to develop as a starter, there's very little chance they'll have room or need for him on the big league roster at all. Even if they see him as a future reliever, he still needs to develop a reliable second pitch, if not a third. He's not doing that on the big league roster.
But then the question is whether Kopech is likely to be called up sometime in 2017, anyway. If the answer is yes, then it's the same option being burned either way, right?So Ras has it dead right. If Kopech is called up now, it will cost an option each year he spends in the minors going forward. There is zero chance that they add him this year.
I suppose that is true, i can't find anything to refute it.So Ras has it dead right. If Kopech is called up now, it will cost an option each year he spends in the minors going forward. There is zero chance that they add him this year.
Apparently, yes, THIS is true. But who knows if he's ready next year,But then the question is whether Kopech is likely to be called up sometime in 2017, anyway. If the answer is yes, then it's the same option being burned either way, right?
If you can get them off the 40 man you can avoid burning options, but that generally requires clearing waivers of some sort. Not likely for an actual prospect rather than fringe player.I suppose that is true, i can't find anything to refute it.
I'd swear i've read where 40 man guys staying in the minors all year didn't burn an option but it seems thats not right.
Not if they call him up towards the end of 2017 and he stays up the rest of the season.But then the question is whether Kopech is likely to be called up sometime in 2017, anyway. If the answer is yes, then it's the same option being burned either way, right?
Oh, you're cute. You went to a minor league game and saw him strike out a bunch of teenagers and all of a sudden you know more than people that are paid professionals.He has a reliable second pitch. Anyone saying he doesn't hasn't watched him lately. Those folks, like the Keith Law chat outtake above, are just parroting what they wrote last offseason.
Rumor has it, this is excellent life advice. Trust Ras, he knows whereof he spaketh.So Ras has it dead right.
No, I'm listening to Brian Bannister and Paul Abbott, the current major league and minor league pitching coaches he's working with, and former major league pitchers.Oh, you're cute. You went to a minor league game and saw him strike out a bunch of teenagers and all of a sudden you know more than people that are paid professionals.
I know you don't like Law because he dared say something skeptical about Pedroia once but he's not parroting what he said last offseason. He's making a far more educated assessment of a prospect - from personal observation and crowd sourcing of professional scouts and prospect guys - than you're capable of making. That's not even up for debate. It's simply fact. His secondary pitches may work at single A but he is in no way shape or form Daniel Bard right now. Sorry man.
There is a much better baseball reason to leave Kopech in Salem until he is dispatched to the Arizona Fall League after the World Series:He has a reliable second pitch. Anyone saying he doesn't hasn't watched him lately. Those folks, like the Keith Law chat outtake above, are just parroting what they wrote last offseason.
They have access to an in his prime version of Daniel Bard for this offseason. If they choose not to use that weapon because they want to see if he can develop a third pitch before 2020, well, there's a word for that.
There also nothing preventing him from relieving for a couple years and developing a third pitch in his side sessions and spring training, like Derek Lowe did.
Sounds like the Judge and Jury are in.There is a much better baseball reason to leave Kopech in Salem until he is dispatched to the Arizona Fall League after the World Series:
He has a million dollar arm and a ten cent head.
Argue all you'd like about how wonderful that million dollar arm is, and how it might play in Boston... just know it ain't happening. And it ain't happening because he has a ten cent head. The million dollar arm is gonna still be worth a million dollars in the spring. And maybe, by then, the organization will be somewhat satisfied that the guy has matured enough to cope with life in the big leagues. Right now? In the heat of a pennant race? At the end of a season where he LITERALLY did the one thing a pitcher cannot ever do? No... he's not coming to Boston unless he buys a ticket and sits in the bleachers.
It would be borderline organizational malfeasance to promote this stupid kid after his minor league track record - not the six-odd unhittable weeks in July and August: Kopech's entire minor league track record must be considered when contemplating a promotion. And anyone arguing he deserves to be in Boston is at best, reckless. He's still a kid. Rewarding him with a promotion now sends every wrong message in the history of wrong messages.
None of you understood that turn of phrase as a Bull Durham reference?Sounds like the Judge and Jury are in.
Ease up Francis
You're light on details on a fight between 20 yr old room mates and you're labelling him already? It may be an isolated incident. I haven't read anywhere that he is moping around or being disruptive. Sounds like he apologized to his team mates, conditioned himself while his injury healed, worked on his pitching mechanics in Florida and came out strong.
Its a very, VERY long shot that he gets called up this year BUT if he did I doubt this "sends every wrong message in the history of wrong messages".
There is nothing wrong with second chances and redemption.
This apparently doesn't matter to some of the experts in this discussion.If Kopech was in AA I think the pro-callup guys would have a better argument. Him dominating high A is great, but there are some significant jumps between A+ and pro ball.