Wright has been having trouble in wet weather, and Pomeranz may show signs of getting tired with the jump in innings.
If Erod does continue to struggle, Kopech could get a couple starts in September, to test his performance.
The September Callup Thread
- Thread starter Rasputin
- Start date
If Erod does continue to struggle, Kopech could get a couple starts in September, to test his performance.
I'm going to stop now because it is obvious that we won't ever agree on this but I will repeat one last time that in my opinion there is zero chance of this happening. Maybe next year but not this year.
Your obsession with pitchf/x data is a little creepy and there is zero chance Kopech is going to be called up to start.
Eduardo Rodriguez had one bad game coming back from the DL and you make it sound like he's been struggling for weeks.
Drew Pomeranz "may show signs of getting tired" is true, but so so is "Drew Pomeranz may get hit by a bus."
You're trying to concoct a scenario where it's reasonable to think Kopech might get a chance to start. There aren't any. There are six people who have a chance to be in a playoff rotation and if three of them fail, there isn't going to be a playoff rotation.
Kopech has a very small chance of being called up to reliever, a zero chance of being called up to start, and a negative chance of being in the playoff rotation.
The concern about Pomeranz getting tired as his innings add up is well-known. He pitched far fewer innings in past years and had shoulder surgery in october 2015. There's also the medical issue that the Padres allegedly did not disclose, which JH confirmed is being investigated.
Erod's inconsistency is not limited to his most recent start. He was sent down to the minors for a time to work on his repeated problems with tipping pitches. Tipping pitches is very difficult to "fix", and could recur.
Wright has had trouble in wet weather and October could be wet.
Consider that "zero chance" means it's literally impossible. It's silly even to think it's impossible for Pomeranz to get hit by a bus.
He's not showing signs yet.
6 starts in August: 9.5 K/9, 2.9 BB/9, 3.25 K/BB, 2.70 ERA
For the season: 9.5 K/9, 3.2 BB/9, 3.00 K/BB, 3.00 ERA
No dips there that could be attributable to fatigue.
In those six starts, he's thrown an average of 92.3 pitches per start but that is skewed by the rain shortened start in which he only threw 51. Without that, he's averaging 100.6 pitches per start. His season average in that category is 96.5. So his in-game endurance seems about the same. I can't imagine that it will get to a point where he can't give them at least 5-6 competent innings every 5 days.
If, and it's a big if, Pomeranz has to be shut down AND Wright struggles AND ERod struggles, to the point where none of the three are making starts in September, I think they will more likely turn to Buchholz, Elias, Owens, Johnson, or O'Sullivan to fill the void than call up Kopech.
There are two signs of being tired. Tired as your pitch count grows, and tired because you didn't recover from your last start.
The Red Sox have been pulling him earlier in pitch counts (ADD: than their other starters), and giving him extra days of rest where possible. They have been managing the fatigue before it becomes an issue. But the concern is still there.
Just stop please. The shoulder surgery was a minor clavicle resection and whatever Padres medical issue there was clearly isn't affecting his performance. The only thing getting tired is the assurance from the prospect mongers that Pomeranz will hit a wall in September......btw he hasn't pitched "far fewer innings in past years", he just eclipsed his 2012 IP in his last start.
The context here is that he has pitched far fewer innings in the past than he will be asked to pitch this year, and especially in the postseason.
You don't know what the medical issue is or if it's a result of the clavicle resection. Your medical opinions are welcome, though, and you'll be paid what you're worth.
They have NOT been giving him extra days of rest. Outside of his first start with the team which was coming out of the All Star break, all but one of his starts in a Red Sox uniform has come with the standard four days of rest. The odd start was on 5 days rest due to a scheduled team off-day (so everyone got an extra day).
The only Red Sox starters who have consistently thrown more pitches per game than Pomeranz since his acquisition are Price and Porcello, so they don't appear to be protecting him in that sense either. His pitch counts have been right in line with his numbers from San Diego earlier in the year when he presumably was less fatigued.
Just stop. This is beyond embarrassing.The concern about Pomeranz getting tired as his innings add up is well-known. He pitched far fewer innings in past years and had shoulder surgery in october 2015. There's also the medical issue that the Padres allegedly did not disclose, which JH confirmed is being investigated.
Erod's inconsistency is not limited to his most recent start. He was sent down to the minors for a time to work on his repeated problems with tipping pitches. Tipping pitches is very difficult to "fix", and could recur.
Wright has had trouble in wet weather and October could be wet.
Consider that "zero chance" means it's literally impossible. It's silly even to think it's impossible for Pomeranz to get hit by a bus.
Well, there's a difference between pulling a pitcher when he's in trouble and pulling him when he's not. They pull Pomeranz when he's not in trouble because he's hit what seems to be his presumed limit.
Price and Porcello are the other starters I referred to (we won't count Wright). Both are left in to pitch much longer than Pomeranz.
Sorry, I was wrong about the extra days rest. ADD: It looks like only Porcello and Pomeranz got it, not Price or Rodriquez.
Last edited:
I'm sorry I don't mean to embarrass you. I think your arguments are valid, but they have a counterpoint.
Pulled with 2 on and nobody out in the 4th inning, after giving up 2 HR and 5 total runs in that inning alone (80 total pitches)
Pulled after 6 full innings giving up 2 ER (99 pitches)
Pulled with 1 on (that later scored) and one out in the 6th after giving up 4 runs in the first 5 innings (79 pitches)
Pulled after 6 full innings giving up 2 ER (105 pitches)
Pulled with 2 on and one out in the 6th inning, having given up 1 ER in the first 5 innings (93 pitches)
Pulled with 1 on and two outs and one run already scored in the 8th inning (104 pitches)
Pulled after 5 full innings due to a rain delay (51 pitches)
Pulled with 1 on and no outs and one run already scored in the 7th inning (100 pitches)
Pulled with 2 out after giving up a 2-run HR that tied the game in the 7th inning (101 pitches)
I count three starts that he was pulled when not "in trouble", one of which was an early exit after a rain delay of close to two hours. I see no evidence that they're trying to protect him by keeping his pitch counts low when they can. I see a lot of evidence of a guy who they let pitch until he finds trouble, then they give him the hook.
Seriously you need to stop, everyone who cares to read the thread knows what you think and none of your last 10 posts in this thread have added any value.
You started with some interesting thoughts, I think you were wrong but that doesn't matter. You've now made your point and it is time to read the thread to see what others say.
Edit:This is obviously meant for So good
You started with some interesting thoughts, I think you were wrong but that doesn't matter. You've now made your point and it is time to read the thread to see what others say.
Edit:This is obviously meant for So good
Moncada, Kelly, Hembree, Marrero, a catcher. Anyone else?
Yep, I'm an anti-emojite.
Are you asking in terms of immediate call-ups and in the dugout in Oakland on Friday? Yes, those five make sense (Vazquez being the catcher, of course).
I'd expect more will come once the minor league seasons are over. Aside from maybe Brian Johnson if there are concerns about his anxiety, there's no reason to leave out any 40-man roster occupant who is healthy.
Yeah, pretty much, and I would have said Vazquez, but there was a mention during the recently concluded game about Hanigan coming off the DL. Of course, both is possible.
Well, you can't fit 40 guys in the dugout or clubhouse.
The one guy I really wonder about is Henry Owens. There's a certain amount of playing with fire there, but if he simplifies his arsenal he might be effective in one-inning outings.
One arm has to be a starter to throw 100 pitches no matter what if the Sox starter gets shelled and they are getting killed early.
Thanks for compiling this. The evidence I see is in most of his starts (5/9) where he's being pulled at right around 100 pitches, where Price and Porcello (and Wright) would be allowed to continue.
Pulled after 6 full innings giving up 2 ER (99 pitches)
Pulled with 1 on (that later scored) and one out in the 6th after giving up 4 runs in the first 5 innings (79 pitches)
Pulled after 6 full innings giving up 2 ER (105 pitches)
Pulled with 2 on and one out in the 6th inning, having given up 1 ER in the first 5 innings (93 pitches)
Pulled with 1 on and no outs and one run already scored in the 7th inning (100 pitches)
I think after he was pulled at 79 pitches Pomeranz even answered an interview question saying he didn't know why he was pulled (I can't find the quote now).
It's pretty standard protocol for pretty much all starters these days that they don't typically go out for another inning if they've exceeded 100 pitches (or are perilously close to that threshold). It has nothing to do with Pomeranz specifically. Look across the league and you'll see it is pretty rampant except when dealing with aces (and even they don't get that leeway every game).
As for the game in which he was pulled after 79 pitches, I don't think it had anything to do with his pitch count. He was pitching like shit and Farrell was trying to keep the game close (which the bullpen did...zero runs in 2.2 IP). I'd assume Pomeranz wasn't ignorant of that, he just didn't want to admit he had a bad night.
If you want to worry about Pomeranz's stamina due to his low inning counts the last couple years, that's fine. But there's no basis to say that the Red Sox are babying him in any way because they're concerned about it. They're treating him like any other middle of the rotation starter, no differently than the Padres treated him (and he was their ace).
Right, but I tried to say (or add) in the OP that compared to the other starters, Price and Porcello (and even Wright, though that's not a strict comparison), the Sox are limiting Pomeranz' pitch count. That's true, as you say.
The Padres also limited his pitch count, as you note, even though he was their "ace". So for me, it's evidence of a concern about his stamina. For you, it's treating him like a middle of the rotation starter.
The only problem I see with your theory is that the reason you pull your middle of the rotation starter is that your bullpen is likely to be as good or better. But there's a significant drop from Pomeranz to the Red Sox bullpen, when Pomeranz is pitching well.* So that's a concern, for me.
*ADD: I mean, Pomeranz' curveball is flat out nasty. And the new cutter is busting righties right on the hands, a la Lester. Pomeranz even gets better the third time through the order, I think.
The Padres also limited his pitch count, as you note, even though he was their "ace". So for me, it's evidence of a concern about his stamina. For you, it's treating him like a middle of the rotation starter.
The only problem I see with your theory is that the reason you pull your middle of the rotation starter is that your bullpen is likely to be as good or better. But there's a significant drop from Pomeranz to the Red Sox bullpen, when Pomeranz is pitching well.* So that's a concern, for me.
*ADD: I mean, Pomeranz' curveball is flat out nasty. And the new cutter is busting righties right on the hands, a la Lester. Pomeranz even gets better the third time through the order, I think.
Last edited:
I wonder what pitchf/x says about Kopech's start tonight. There was never a chance he was coming up this year.
The poor kid was infected by the mere suggestion of going to the Sox pen. Never stood a chance.
No PITCHf/x in the minors; at least none the public has access to
There are still people on this board who believe a player needs to be on the roster 8/31 to be in the playoffs?
The playoff roster if needed will be set the day before the playoffs.
Seriously, we have five guys on the 60 day DL and Koji and Taz could easily be put on the DL if necessary.
Kopech must've been reading about how not ready he was in this thread. Ummmmm, crow. Pass the salt.
I still have to guess that Vazquez is our 2nd best catcher. Haladay and Hanigan hit like Kopech.
The PawSox lineup just came out and the only "name" guy who isn't in it is Marrero. Brentz and Vazquez are in it and Johnson is the SP.
I suppose they could be trying to get one last game in AAA for these guys and they would fly out tomorrow but there are only 5 games left in the season so I suspect they will stay with the team until then.
I assume at least Kelly and Hembree are already on the way to the west coast along with Marrero. They can't afford to take a chance on travel issues and playing another game with a short bullpen.
I suppose they could be trying to get one last game in AAA for these guys and they would fly out tomorrow but there are only 5 games left in the season so I suspect they will stay with the team until then.
I assume at least Kelly and Hembree are already on the way to the west coast along with Marrero. They can't afford to take a chance on travel issues and playing another game with a short bullpen.
Is the 40 man currently at 39? According to ESPN, it is. I wonder if we'll see Robby Scott or Kyle Martin eventually.
edit: Scott has no fastball at all though, so not sure how well he'd fair. Martin has better stuff, worse results.
edit: Scott has no fastball at all though, so not sure how well he'd fair. Martin has better stuff, worse results.
It's at 39 until Moncada is added before tomorrow's game. After that, it will take a DFA or someone moving to the 60-day DL to make room for one of those guys.
Derp, thanks. There is really no one to move to the 60 unless I missed something. Of course Bryce Brentz occupies a spot on the 40 man, so it's not really an issue.
Is Kojo on the 15 or 60 day DL? If the latter someone will have to be chopped when (or if) he returns.