The Evil Empire Revisited: Lakers General thread

[jon abbey]

I don't think D'Antoni's biggest problem is that he is a bad defensive coach, it's that he's remarkably inflexible no matter his personnel. He had Melo standing out on the wing as a decoy, he doesn't believe in throwing the ball into the post as a threat, he is dreadful at designing plays out of time outs, he is more tied to how good his PG is than probably any other coach in the history of the league. Woodson took over NY last year and they instantly became pretty much unbeatable at home even before this offseason's acquisitions, 20-1 now at MSG under Woodson and counting.

 

[LondonSox]

I looked up him tooling on gasol. I don't get it, why does this team take shots at a good player whenever they have issues.
I feel like Kobe does it now the coach, why would he play his guts out for two guys who talk shit at him whenever they need a scapegoat. It's bizarre it's such an anti team concept I'm confused. Is it a call him out public ally gets him playing mean thing?

I totally agree re adjustments. He had that hot run with Lin because injuries pushed the lineup into his style by chance. The players came back and he couldn't adjust. His time out calls were terrible. You see Woodson when the Knicks are on a bad run he calls a play from the sidelines or a time out and out of it they seem to run a good play a very high percentage, and it's not always the same one!

Kobe doesn't seem to fit into the d'antoni system, it's a lot like melo. Some games melo would just take over and ignore him, I can't imagine Kobe being different, if he tries to run the pick and roll all game with Kobe as a spot up decoy does anyone think that will end well? Also up tempo with a hurt and old Nash, a hurt gasol, a hurt Howard and an ageing Kobe with zero depth seems a bad idea.

We shall see, I think on offence they will be ok as health returns but i don't see how unless Howard totally recovers the defence can keep up. Kobe has clearly dropped, although scoring like this isn't helping, Nash has always been horrible and world peace seems worse to me and from reading. Plus the depth. Yeash. I don't see how they can afford to run and gun with an older beat up them with no bench

 

[Tony C]

i agree except about Kobe. hate to say it, but he's been awesome so far this season.

 

[ifmanis5]

Kobe actually made me laugh this morning after losing at home to Philly.

Cause we're old as s---. What do you want? You just saw an old damn team. I don't know how else to put it to you. We're just slow.

 

[AMS25]

Kobe actually made me laugh this morning after losing at home to Philly.

Kobe often comes across as a douche, but at least he's not afraid to say what he thinks. Yep, he made me laugh this morning, too.

 

[Tony C]

I'm beginning to believe this is more than a bad start, and that things really won't come together for the Lakers. Howard still looks hurt and not himself, especially defensively, Nash looks good not great -- and, again, dismal on the defensive side -- and the Gasol thing is just not being worked out. For a few games D'Antoni had him at the elbow and he's very effective from there, but in the Clippers game they again had him out as a 3-point shooter which is just absurd.

If I'm a Laker fan the optimistic take is:
-Kobe is playing absurdly great -- I hate the guy and think he's been too inefficient and selfish to deserve the accolades he gets. This year...he deserves them.
-Howard and Nash are still rounding in to shape.
-It's not such a complex coaching fix to solve the Gasol thing.

The more pessimistic and I'm beginning to think more realistic take is:
-they're burning Kobe out.
-Howard's back injury is ...a back injury. Those aren't easy to return from.
-Nash is old.
-D'Antoni is an inflexible 'my way or the highway' type of coach
-there's zero depth

Was really impressed by the Clippers against them. The Clippers are multi-dimensional in the way a championship team needs to be. The Lakers...man, hard to see a team with Kobe, Nash, Howard, and Gasol not pulling out of it, but...they shoulda hired Jackson, that's for sure.

 

[nighthob]

I don't think the problem with Howard is the injury, per se. Because that look of boredom on his face isn't being cause by back pain. The only moment he looked excited against the Clippers was when he fouled out of the game. And it wasn't excited in the sense of angry. Methinks the Lakers locker room might have some intractable problems.

 

[Saby]

Could the Lakers really miss out on a playoff berth? Or is that wishful thinking?

 

[TheoShmeo]

Was really impressed by the Clippers against them. The Clippers are multi-dimensional in the way a championship team needs to be. The Lakers...man, hard to see a team with Kobe, Nash, Howard, and Gasol not pulling out of it, but...they shoulda hired Jackson, that's for sure.

With that personnel, I think they did Phil a favor.

 

[bosockboy]

Interested to see if Kupchak has the balls to trade Howard at the deadline. He should.

 

[TheWinkleman]

Delicious...

A league source told the Daily News that the Lakers stars got into a heated exchange following a New Year’s Day loss to the 76ers, and Bryant went for a low blow – referencing and agreeing with Shaquille O’Neal’s criticisms of Howard being soft.

Howard was restrained from going at his teammate, according to the source, and there have been rumblings from the center’s camp that he’s been unhappy with Bryant since earlier in the season.

...

“(Chemistry) is something we have to do to get better,” Howard told reporters in L.A. “We have to play like we like each other. Even if we don’t want to be friends off the court, whatever that may be, when we step in between the lines or we step in the locker room or the gym, we have to respect each other and what we bring to the table.”

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1234685​

A lot of people doubted that Kobe and Dwight's personalities would mesh from the moment that trade was made, with good reason. I figured it'd be a non-issue as long as they were winning. Kobe seems like the worst teammate to have when his team is losing... the two times he's had to deal with that in his entire career. They have a bunch of problems at the moment and this will only get uglier if they don't resolve some of them in a hurry. That said, they're still just a few games under .500 and there's a lot of season left. Hopefully D'Antoni's inflexibility keeps this going.​

 

[Ed Hillel]

I can't stand Kobe, but good for him. One thing you have to give Kobe credit for is the desire to compete at all times. Howard is just stealing their money until he gets his max deal to where ever it is he wants to go. I wouldn't give a guy with his baggage a max deal, but I'm sure someone will.

 

[bowiac]

I can't stand Kobe, but good for him. One thing you have to give Kobe credit for is the desire to compete at all times. Howard is just stealing their money until he gets his max deal to where ever it is he wants to go. I wouldn't give a guy with his baggage a max deal, but I'm sure someone will.

You don't think Howard is a max player?

 

[Ed Hillel]

You don't think Howard is a max player?

He obviously is when he decides to put his energy towards playing, and not bringing down franchises. I just wouldn't commit that money and those years to someone who has continually demonstrated such poor judgment and work ethic over the past few years. I guess it depends on the franchise. Maybe Atlanta, desperate to finally get over the hump, takes the risk. But he is just that, a risk, and an expensive one at that.

 

[TheWinkleman]

That Dwight is sort of the anti-Kobe as a competitor is what makes this pairing so delicious. While I'm not one for the manufactured dramatic fodder ESPN dwells on, and I thought Howard's happy-go-lucky, childish attitude was in that category for a while, it does seem like it's become an issue since his antics last year. I don't know to what degree, but that plus his health are cause for concern. Given the lack of potentially dominant players who are available to build around, Howard should still be considered a max-contract player and worth the risk for some franchises. The point is more to how he's slipped. I think it's no longer a lock that any franchise would be thrilled to sign him at the max, and there are enough concerns to give any franchise pause before committing to him.

On his attitude, it reminds me of Andy Dalton this weekend. At some point in the 4th quarter, with his team losing in a close playoff game of course, there was a shot of him on the sideline with a big smile, looking carefree. Now it was a mere second, maybe he'd just heard a really funny joke, and maybe he was cursing himself out or punching Gatorade coolers when the camera wasn't on him. But can anyone imagine Brady or Peyton cracking a smile in that situation? They don't look carefree in a game unless their team has already effectively won and the backup is in. Never mind how awful Dalton's performance was. There's something to be said for the competitive, killer instinct that guys like Kobe and KG have, and how their intensity can lead a team. Howard will never be that person, and really he doesn't need to be. But it makes sense to call him out when he plays soft and looks indifferent for stretches.

It must be maddening for Kobe, which is such a shame.

 

[slamminsammya]

Putting aside the armchair psychologizing, Zach Low had a fantastic piece detailing the Lakers' troubles, especially on the defensive side. Some thing that stands out is that Kobe is playing some pretty sloppy defense. I have always thought he was vastly overrated as a defender, usually just gambling or floating and being covered up by his teammates, but it seems like he is taking that to an extreme this season. For what its worth, the defense is even worse when they bring in the bench.

 

[nighthob]

That Dwight is sort of the anti-Kobe as a competitor is what makes this pairing so delicious. While I'm not one for the manufactured dramatic fodder ESPN dwells on, and I thought Howard's happy-go-lucky, childish attitude was in that category for a while, it does seem like it's become an issue since his antics last year. I don't know to what degree, but that plus his health are cause for concern. Given the lack of potentially dominant players who are available to build around, Howard should still be considered a max-contract player and worth the risk for some franchises. The point is more to how he's slipped. I think it's no longer a lock that any franchise would be thrilled to sign him at the max, and there are enough concerns to give any franchise pause before committing to him.

On his attitude, it reminds me of Andy Dalton this weekend. At some point in the 4th quarter, with his team losing in a close playoff game of course, there was a shot of him on the sideline with a big smile, looking carefree. Now it was a mere second, maybe he'd just heard a really funny joke, and maybe he was cursing himself out or punching Gatorade coolers when the camera wasn't on him. But can anyone imagine Brady or Peyton cracking a smile in that situation? They don't look carefree in a game unless their team has already effectively won and the backup is in. Never mind how awful Dalton's performance was. There's something to be said for the competitive, killer instinct that guys like Kobe and KG have, and how their intensity can lead a team. Howard will never be that person, and really he doesn't need to be. But it makes sense to call him out when he plays soft and looks indifferent for stretches.

It must be maddening for Kobe, which is such a shame.

Bryant has himself to blame for this, at least partially. Thirty eight seconds after the trade was announced Bryant was calling a "Heads I win, tails Dwight lost" press conference and Howard was greeted in LA not with questions of "Dwight, how does it feel to be a Laker?" but instead "Dwight, will you do what Kobe tells you to do so that he can lead the Lakers to victory?" From that point forward I'm sure his BFF's whisperings of "Dude, let's put together our own superteam in the A T L!" have found a receptive ear.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Dwight Howard has a torn labrum and will be out indefinitely.

Gasol has a concussion, and is also out.

Neither is currently travelling with the team.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Oh, that's...terrible. It must have torn some time in the night. If it's severe, that will probably end Dwight's regular season at least, I believe.

This is kind of a cop out for the team, but I'm not going to complain either way.

 

[Gunfighter 09]

There is no upside for the Lakers to lose though, they traded their #1 to Phoenix for Nash.

So, are the Denver Nuggets the big winners of the Howard trade?

 

[Blacken]

Howard out, Gasol out, Hill hurt.

Robert Sacre, come on down!

 

[nighthob]

So, are the Denver Nuggets the big winners of the Howard trade?

Right you are

2012
Orlando .561
Denver .576
LA .621
Philly .530

2013
Orlando .364 -.197
Denver .556 -.20
LA .455 -.166
Philly .429 -.101

 

[ishmael]

Right you are

2012
Orlando .561
Denver .576
LA .621
Philly .530

2013
Orlando .364 -.197
Denver .556 -.20
LA .455 -.166
Philly .429 -.101

More like smallest losers.

 

[ifmanis5]

Now is the time to dangle Bass. Come on, Danny!

 

[Nick Kaufman]

It looks to me as if we match up pretty well for a trade with the Lakers. The lakers had an incredible starting 5, but absolutely no depth. We ve got depth, but our lineup needs some punchup. Although a Gasol for Bass and Green (and perhaps another guy.. Barbosa?) might seem bad for the Lakers, I think it could be a win win for both teams.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

You can make a difference! Text LAKERS to Red Cross

lol

 

[scottyno]

Howard out, Gasol out, Hill hurt.

Robert Sacre, come on down!

along with starting PF 36 year old Antawn Jamison

 

[Tony C]

It's actually feasible to dream of them not even making the playoffs. Remarkable.

What's even more remarkable is that I've watched a fair number of their games and Kobe is playing better than ever and Howard has had some monster nights like last night. The problem does come down to defense. The use of Gasol on the offensive side is stupid and all, but really they're so talented they'll score plenty anyway -- they did under Mike Brown and they are under D'Antoni. The issue is stops and the transition game. I actually think whoever suggested the 3 pennies (Green etc) for a nickel (Gasol) trade is right in general terms. The Lakers have enough front-line talent they can afford to and, in fact, need to trade some of it for greater depth including some defensive stoppers and spot-up shooters.

That could be Gasol or, if it's clear Howard isn't signing for next year (and assuming the labrum is short-term not long term) even Howard.

This is like a beautiful dream that isn't ending.....

 

[Nick Kaufman]

I am watching the ESPN guys writing LA's obituary and they look to me like overreacting forum posters. A team with no depth lacking its two towering frontmen is losing games against superior competition and that's somehow means LA misses the playoffs. But if you look at it, they ve played only a handful of games with all their stars together and Dwight seems to still be hurt from his injury.

If Dwight truly mends however, the Lakers will make the playoffs. And no one will want to play them 8 seed or not.

 

[Saby]

The Lakers actually have a good shot at home field advantage in the playoffs. If they are the 8 seed and the Clippers are 1, or any other such combo, means they play at Staples. And the crowd will be behind them.

 

[dhellers]

The Lakers actually have a good shot at home field advantage in the playoffs. If they are the 8 seed and the Clippers are 1, or any other such combo, means they play at Staples. And the crowd will be behind them.

As of 12 Jan 2013, the Lakers are 5 games back of 8th place in the West (with Utah and Minny in front of them, and Dallas behind). WIth 47 games left to play,

Let's assume that the worst of Denver/Portland/Houston (current 6/7/8, basically tied at 5 games ahead of the Lakers) win 55% of their games -- call it 26 wins. That means the lakers have to win 31/47 -- basically 65% -- to get an 8th seed.

And that assumes that Dallas or Utah doen't get hot.

Now, if one of Denver/Portland/Houston slips to .500, and the lakers can play .500 until they get their guys back (say, on February 1, which is 10 games away); they have to win about 2/3 of there remaining 37 games to make 8 seed.

But ...
Suppose the Lakers only win 3 of the next 10 games before Feb 1 (they play @MEM, @CHI, OKC, and MIA; as well as UT, @TOR, and MIL; and CLE,NO, and PHO).
And Denver/Portland/Houston could easily play at 0.550 the rest of the way,
Then the Lakers are 7 games back on Feb 1 (with 37 games to go).
That means they have to win about 75% of the games after Feb 1.

Perhaps the Lakers can, fairly soon, start playing as well as Golden State (0.65) or maybe SanAntonio (0.72) -- but it won't be easy. A collapse by Por/Den/Houston would help, but I don't see it happening.

IOW: it doesn't look like a 'good shot'. A chance, perhaps, but not easyl

So I am going to enjoy the train wreck with outward glee!

 

[Tony C]

I am watching the ESPN guys writing LA's obituary and they look to me like overreacting forum posters. A team with no depth lacking its two towering frontmen is losing games against superior competition and that's somehow means LA misses the playoffs. But if you look at it, they ve played only a handful of games with all their stars together and Dwight seems to still be hurt from his injury.

If Dwight truly mends however, the Lakers will make the playoffs. And no one will want to play them 8 seed or not.

Naw, I'll stick up for the ESPN guys -- it's less than 50/50 that the Lakers make the playoffs and if they do make they have no reason for optimism.

In re no depth and injuries:

-injuries: to be expected when you run out a team as old as they are. They acquired Howard's recuperating back and he's basically played really efficiently -- they can't complain. If he's back in a week from the shoulder thing like they're saying those missed games will ahve been relatively few. Nash is 39 and I don't think you can complain when 39 year old players get injured. Even post injury looks like he's either still recuperating or has just lost a step. Gasol has a ton of wear on his treads, too, and has been largely ineffective when healthy (Earl Clark has been better these past 2 games), even if that has more to do with D'Antoni than Gasol. The real loss with Gasol's injuries has been in reducing his trade value, not in reducing what the Lakers get on the court. Their "two towering frontmen" should be great and I think could be great, but they haven't been great together.

-no depth: up until the last 3 games the major injury had been Nash's. But they were ineffective without him and they were ineffective with him. Depth has probably been less of a factor than just the club's basic flaws: old legs=ineffective transition defense; they also rotate poorly defensively in half-court sets; an effective team on offense is still being hamstrung by D'Antoni's odd and inconsistent sets and player usage. What the last 3 games show is that the Lakers had more depth than advertised, as Jordan Hill is a real loss and Clark and Sacre have been sort of serviceable. Their problem is their front-line personnel and how they play together...or don't. Injuries are certainly a part of it, but it all flows out of a basically dysfunctional squad that is old and ill-matched either with each other or with their coach.

The Lakers actually have a good shot at home field advantage in the playoffs. If they are the 8 seed and the Clippers are 1, or any other such combo, means they play at Staples. And the crowd will be behind them.

I do agree all is not lost. If the problem with Nash and Howard is slow recuperation, then they could round into superstar shape (though they're each playing well -- just not great), Kobe is playing at a really high level, and I guess Clark/Sacre replace the nice year Jordan HIll was having. And D'Antoni could get religion and stop pushing Gasol to sit at the 3 point line like he's Steve Kerr (or Gasol could be traded a la James Harden for a lesser player who is a better fit).

All this is conceivable, but highly unlikely. The Lakers haven't just been losing to superior competition, they had a relatively favorable schedule up until this last road trip (even now the team immediately behind the Lakers -- the Mavs -- have played 5 more road games) and have a 9-16 conference record. They've just been losing.

If the Lakers to win 2/3 of their remaining games and squeeze into the 8th slot, on the one hand that'll be scary since obviously they'd have figured something out in order to do so. On the other hand, with as many minutes as D'Antoni is playing his studs and with the likelihood that 1st round match-up would be against the Clippers or the Thunder...the Lakers will likely get blown out of the house. They can't keep up with either of those teams in their dreams.

And then...moving forward, what do they do? Howard won't be back if the season stays in the crapper. Gasol has lost tremendous value. Nash and Kobe will be another year older.....heh-heh.

 

[ishmael]

Don't bury the Lakers just yet, but if they don't get it together in the next two weeks, we could do so before the All Star break. Just looking at the schedule (CLE, MIL, MIA, @TOR, @CHI, @MEM, UTA, OKC) I could see them losing 6 out of the next 8 games. If that happens, they're 17-27 with 38 games remaining. And it will probably take at least 44 wins to make the playoffs in the West this year. Very tough math.

If I'm a Laker fan, I also have to be very worried about Kobe wearing down. He's second in the NBA in minutes played and one of only two guys aged 30+ in the top 25 (Joe Johnson is 31). D'Antoni absolutely wrecked Amare in 2010-11, who had a similarly great start to the season (averaging 26 ppg to the All Star break, but playing 37 minutes per game), but fell off a cliff towards the end of the season.

 

[Tony C]

fwiw, that may already be happening. Kobe's shooting %, 3 point %, free throw %, rebounds, and assists are all trending down month by month, and rather markedly. At the same time his minutes have gone up from 39 per game for the season to 40.5 in January and 40.6 over the last 10 games. Obviously, then, those worsening numbers haven't been helped by Nash's return as one might expect.

 

[bowiac]

Right you are

2012
Orlando .561
Denver .576
LA .621
Philly .530

2013
Orlando .364 -.197
Denver .556 -.20
LA .455 -.166
Philly .429 -.101

For what it's worth, the Nuggets have played the hardest schedule in the NBA so far, and played 15 home games to 23 road games in the process. They have a pretty real shot at the 4 seed still.

 

[bbc23]

After tonight, the Lakers are 3 games out of the playoffs, 3.5 out of 7th (I think it's hilarious people are game counting when we aren't even halfway through the season but that's the hype machine at work)
I think it's just a matter of when until they trade Pau though, the bench was horrific and kept the Bucks in the game. A lot of the time +/- is not too useful, but the +/-that contrasts the starters and bench is dramatic.

 

[NYCSox]

Sigh, the shitheads are going to get in thanks to the Rockets and Blazers imploding this month.

 

[ishmael]

Sigh, the shitheads are going to get in thanks to the Rockets and Blazers imploding this month.

Still have to take care of their own business. Down 16 to Toronto in the first quarter. Sunday day games are tough for older teams and even worse for west coast teams...

Edit update: Howard gets kicked out on a questionable double technical, Kobe shoots 10-32 and D'Antoni rides him for 43 minutes in yet another Lakers road loss.

 

[Tony C]

fwiw, that may already be happening. Kobe's shooting %, 3 point %, free throw %, rebounds, and assists are all trending down month by month, and rather markedly. At the same time his minutes have gone up from 39 per game for the season to 40.5 in January and 40.6 over the last 10 games. Obviously, then, those worsening numbers haven't been helped by Nash's return as one might expect.

After two horrible games, Kobe's now all the way down to a .429 shooting pct in January -- obvious explanation is that the minutes have worn him down, as well as the increased defensive responsibilities.

In a shitty Red Sox and Pats year, the recompense is being a Jets and Laker-hater. Sad but true...please keep this up.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

D'Antoni officially announced last night that Pau Gasol will be coming off of the bench, and likely won't be closing out games.

I've been a pretty big D'Antoni defender over the years, and still think that 2/3rds of the NBA is currently running his system, but his propensity for benching useful guys who aren't a fit for his system and killing their trade value is ridiculous. They'll be lucky to get 40 cents on the dollar for Gasol now.

 

[wutang112878]

Isnt this on Kupchak though? Before D'Antoni signed we all knew this group of players wasnt a great match for his system, and D'Antoni is very much a 'players need to fit this style of play' and not a 'I will modify my system to match my players' coach. These are things Kupchak should have thought through and discussed with D'Antoni beforehand, and if they didnt have a plan in place, even if that plan was to just showcase guys and get D'Antoni his type of guys, then it seems like this is more Kupchak's fault than D'Antoni's to me.

 

[ElUno20]

It's been here and there all year but the media in LA really starting to turn on Dwight. He needs a win streak bad right now

 

[Tony C]

Kobe is so golden around here. He's 25 for 79 over his last 3 games, and Howard has one bad game and all of a sudden he's the pinata for the Laker fan boy media. It's true that Howard isn't the defensive force he's been in previous years, but coming back early from surgery will do that. But he has been a very efficient, effective player -- he's hardly been the problem over the course of the season.

Isnt this on Kupchak though? Before D'Antoni signed we all knew this group of players wasnt a great match for his system, and D'Antoni is very much a 'players need to fit this style of play' and not a 'I will modify my system to match my players' coach. These are things Kupchak should have thought through and discussed with D'Antoni beforehand, and if they didnt have a plan in place, even if that plan was to just showcase guys and get D'Antoni his type of guys, then it seems like this is more Kupchak's fault than D'Antoni's to me.

Is it really an either/or type of thing? If Kupchak/Buss hired the wrong guy, then it's on them for having hired the wrong guy. It's also on D'Antoni for being an overrated, inflexible coach. It goes back to the earlier conversation about Jackson on this thread -- he was the right hire but Buss didn't want him for ego reasons -- "my dick is bigger than your dick"/I can win without Phil. Can never prove a negative, of course, but I have little doubt that Jackson would have pushed the right buttons in terms of playing style and in terms of psychology. That speaks poorly of D'Antoni -- he's not a great coach, unlike Jackson -- and on Buss.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

I am sorry, no coach is the right hire if he doesn't travel with the team to coach on road games. Also, the Lakers are 18th in defensive efficiency. That's gobsmacking. Can this be all Nash?

 

[wutang112878]

Kobe is so golden around here. He's 25 for 79 over his last 3 games, and Howard has one bad game and all of a sudden he's the pinata for the Laker fan boy media. It's true that Howard isn't the defensive force he's been in previous years, but coming back early from surgery will do that. But he has been a very efficient, effective player -- he's hardly been the problem over the course of the season.



Is it really an either/or type of thing? If Kupchak/Buss hired the wrong guy, then it's on them for having hired the wrong guy. It's also on D'Antoni for being an overrated, inflexible coach. It goes back to the earlier conversation about Jackson on this thread -- he was the right hire but Buss didn't want him for ego reasons -- "my dick is bigger than your dick"/I can win without Phil. Can never prove a negative, of course, but I have little doubt that Jackson would have pushed the right buttons in terms of playing style and in terms of psychology. That speaks poorly of D'Antoni -- he's not a great coach, unlike Jackson -- and on Buss.

 
I put it on whoever did the hiring [I dont know if it was Kup or Buss to be fair], because I assume that they should have known that this 'wont adapt my system to my players' problem was going to happen with D'Antoni.  Its not as if he did this in one place, with the Suns and Knicks he really needed his type of guys to put them in a position to succeed, and didnt ever adapt for players that didnt suit his needs.  If Kup or Buss didnt realize this before they hired D'Antoni they didnt do their due diligence IMO.  I mean everyone on this board was citing this as an issue once D'Antoni was hired, that he didnt have the players he really needed, so how they couldnt figure this out and plan for it is beyond me.
 
Yes, it would be great if D'Antoni was more flexible, but I just think he has reached 'you know what you are getting' status.  Just like with Phil, you know you arent getting an amazing X and O type of guy, but a motivator/ego manager type of guy

 

[Tony C]

Fair enough, it's true that D'Antoni is what he is and that prime responsibility is with his hiring (like you I have no idea what the Buss/Kupchak balance is, though tend to think that Buss is the capo de capos). 
 
It's still amazing -- in a delightful way -- to see a team with this much hall of fame talent (literally 4 hall of famers none of whom are well past their prime -- and MWP is no historic slouch, either) struggling like this. Thank god they didn't make the right hire.

 

[Ed Hillel]

To be fair, Kobe has won 5 championships with the Lakers and Dwight Howard has been a giant bitch there from day 1.

 

[ifmanis5]

Stuff got real today...
 
 

 
MEMPHIS -- The Lakers needed to talk. So they did. Loudly.
They held a clear-the-air team meeting before Wednesday morning's shoot-around, with Kobe Bryant very directly asking Dwight Howard if he disliked playing with the long-time Lakers star.
"Guys went at each other a little bit," said a person who witnessed the meeting.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow/la-sp-ln-lakers-meeting-20130123,0,5793715.story

 

[wutang112878]

Fair enough, it's true that D'Antoni is what he is and that prime responsibility is with his hiring (like you I have no idea what the Buss/Kupchak balance is, though tend to think that Buss is the capo de capos). 
 
It's still amazing -- in a delightful way -- to see a team with this much hall of fame talent (literally 4 hall of famers none of whom are well past their prime -- and MWP is no historic slouch, either) struggling like this. Thank god they didn't make the right hire.

 
I really think Buss was involved and pushed for it, because while I dont think Kupchak is a great GM he is smart enough to realize that D'Antoni probably wasnt a perfect fit.  And after firing Brown so quickly, it seems like a very reactionary move which kind of screams ownership overreaction to me but thats all a complete guess.
 
Its a real treat to watch.  Not only do we get to see the Lakers struggle, but Dwight Howards true colors are on full display.  He has a decent supporting cast and he seems disinterested.

 

[TheWalthamKid]

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I really think Buss was involved and pushed for it, because while I don't think Kupchak is a great GM he is smart enough to realize that D'Antoni probably wasnt a perfect fit.  And after firing Brown so quickly, it seems like a very reactionary move which kind of screams ownership overreaction to me but thats all a complete guess.
 
Its a real treat to watch.  Not only do we get to see the Lakers struggle, but Dwight Howards true colors are on full display.  He has a decent supporting cast and he seems disinterested.

I can't believe people actually thought D'Antoni would be a good fit in LA. I mean you take a defensively challenged team like the Lakers, and you hope having a good defensive coach like Brown helps counteract that. Now, it's painfully obvious that Brown was fired too soon, and I guess the solution to the problem was that since Brown was a defensive coach and it wasn't working out, maybe an offensive coach would work better. Unfortunately, anyone that watched basketball would know that D'Antoni's style wouldn't fly with an aging defense who's anchor was a moody enigma coming off of back surgery.
 
What you said about Howard was interesting. Maybe he is more comfortable being on a team were nobody expects them to go deep into the playoffs. Because Dwight's was always surrounded by lesser players, we always gave him the benefit of the doubt that once he got some real talent around him, his team would be a top contender. But maybe that isn't true. It seems like that know things are expected out of Dwight, he can't deliver the goods.    
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