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Tatum for Davis Poll

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by Gash Prex, Jan 28, 2019.

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Would you include Tatum in Davis trade?

  1. Yes - Assuming he agreed to an extension

    149 vote(s)
    63.7%
  2. Yes - Not conditioned on extension ( Kawhi deal)

    27 vote(s)
    11.5%
  3. No - under no circumstances should Tatum be traded

    45 vote(s)
    19.2%
  4. No - I don’t think the Celtics should trade for Davis

    13 vote(s)
    5.6%
  1. Big John

    Big John lurker

    Messages:
    1,286
    Brown's offensive game has sizzle. He's exciting, fun to watch. Plus he defends. He's a starter on virtually any team in the league except Boston and Golden State. I would have no problem starting JB and bringing Morris off the bench, which may happen soon anyway.
     
  2. TripleOT

    TripleOT Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,242
    If Brown was on Phoenix instead of Booker, I could see him putting up similar numbers, while also playing good defense. There haven't been a lot of recent examples of top three picks on playoff teams, so of course the big numbers wouldn't be there on a stocked roster and only nine or ten shots a game.

    Jaylen has shown that be could thrive in the playoffs, Here's how I value the Celtics and Laker trade assets

    Tatum (by a wide margin - he will be a 10 time all star and possible MVP)

    Ingram and Brown. Ingram has more size. Brown shoots the long ball better. Both can be plus defenders at multiple positions.

    Ball. Probably on the same level as Brown and Ingram, but the family stuff and his posture that be must play in LA devalues him.

    Kuzma. Solid numbers, but older than these four and not tough to replace.
     
  3. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,973
    I'm not down on Jaylen, but Devin Booker is averaging 24.8 points and 6.7 assists while shooting 46% from the field. The only team Jaylen does that for is BC High.
     
  4. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,997
    Ingram has more length than Brown, but JB has more size/athleticism. There's also the matter of the space between their ears. Ingram's not shown any inclination to play defense and gets even worse when things aren't going his way. I'd put Ball above him as a prospect, even though I don't think Ball's upside is all that great. Brown is better than both now, and thanks to the size/athleticism combination, has a lot more upside.
     
  5. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,289
    I could see him scoring 20+, but he's not a play maker.
     
  6. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,422
    I'm the biggest JB fan there is, and he's not the shot creator that Booker is. They both do things that the other doesn't of course. Booker's BBIQ is still far higher as well.

    Not a huge Booker fan, but no way Jaylen touches his box store stats at this stage of hia career.

    I think that you can make an argument that Booker is close to his ceiling now and that Brown clearly isn't, but that's a different conversation.
     
  7. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,956
    Ok fine but we are splitting hairs.
    He would start on many teams and not on others, so borderline starter doesn't seem worth getting upset about.

    Ok then, a guy would wouldn't start for a few teams isn't going to headline an AD trade. Is that better?

    I mean look at what Lakers are saying
    Ball, kuzma, Ingram, zu and 2 firsts. If brown is going to be the best asset you got to add a lot of different ones and that's assuming NO wants the poo poo platter of 5 maybes.
     
  8. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,033
    I’m actually in agreement with you. If AD comes to Boston, I think it’s almost certain that Tatum is going the other way unless a SAC lotto miracle happens. I think Brown is as good or better than anyone the Lakers have to offer but that’s just my evaluation. It’s definitely not clear cut.
     
  9. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,956
    I think Tatum is the guy no one can compete with. Trump card. If he won't stay though I'd probably do a brown package as best offer.
     
  10. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,415
    I voted under no consideration, don't deal Tatum.

    BUT if the Lakers tie up all their cap space for multiple years this off-season, AND if Danny has to include Tatum, I'd like him to keep both Brown and Smart.
     
  11. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,145
    Yup, with Tatum gone, wing minutes would suddenly become valuable when Morris leaves.

    Piecing together reports, it seems Danny is telling NO right now that Tatum is 100% on the table, and that no player is untouchable, while being a bit non-committal as to which picks and filler go with that. That's probably the best way to walk the line between maintaining your reputation, but not giving away the farm when the negotiations start.

    I also predict the team doesn't deal Smart. His performance to contract ratio is simply too valuable as the team gets expensive. The motherfucker is 5th (!!) in RPM among PGs now, and the other metrics and eye test back that up. He also complements Kyrie perfectly.
     
  12. Boston Brawler

    Boston Brawler Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,360
    With the deadline passing, is it now a foregone conclusion that Tatum is the centerpiece and will go?
     
  13. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,372
    That's the most probable. The minority scenario seems to be that the Celtics may not have to give up Tatum, if:
    - Davis still sticks to his stance of walking in FA and refusing to sign with Bos
    - NY Knicks don't get the #1 pick, ideally it is #3 or later.
    - Lakers offer remains weak, or if they decreased it because they are confident they will get Davis as a FA.
    - No other team seriously makes a bid attempt.

    If that's the case, maybe a package of Brown, Rozier, MLE signing, MEM + SAC + LAC + BOS draft picks gets it done. Or maybe it is Tatum, Rozier, MLE signing + SAC with Brown/Smart/Mem staying. That's also a great outcome. Either way, the Celtics are likely to come out of this very well.
     
  14. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    984
    Theoretically an offer of Brown, Smart, all three of the Memphis, SAC and LAC picks and a couple of future unprotected Boston picks gets you in the conversation. That's comparable in total value to the Lakers offer, but why mess around? The Knicks and the Clippers can probably beat that deal and if the Pelicans thought they waited for Tatum and he gets pulled off the table they may get pissed and look elsewhere. If Tatum is in the offer on July 1 then it's just haggling over the picks and players at that point. No need to get cute.
     
  15. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,145
    Tatum will also be making almost $30M annually on his next contract, for a skillset that's a bit redundant on an AD/Kyrie team. There's an argument that Smart will be a better fit, even leaving out price.
     
  16. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,447
    I voted no originally in this poll. I can be convinced yes with an extension. I think Tatum alone for one year of AD, then him bolting, would be a massive mistake.
     
  17. djbayko

    djbayko Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,767
    [
    We obviously don’t know anything for sure, but I have to imagine Danny realizes that would be a huge mistake also. He’s done so right by us fans so far that if he ends up sending Tatum for AD, then I trust he’s talked to the right people and done the calculus necessary to feel like it’s worthwhile move...whatever that entails. Of course, I’d rather acquire AD somehow while holding onto Tatum. I don’t see how anyone can disagree with that. Even if you think Tatum would be redundant in that system, he’s an extremely valuable piece.
     
  18. luqin

    luqin Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    982
    I am not a fan of the “trade for AD and hope you can convince him to stay even though his people have said he will not re-sign in Boston” plan. I think the real nightmare scenario is trading Tatum+ for AD, Kyrie agreeing to a 1-year contract, then both of them leaving in 2020 and being left with nothing.
     
  19. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,145
    As has been discussed ad nauseum, the Celtics will know how long a contract Kyrie is signing before finalizing an AD trade.
     
  20. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

    Messages:
    6,470
    The last 6 years of Trader Danny have been a whirlwind of opportunity, entirely his own creation: via exploiting NBA market inefficiencies, being the most decent person possible in a cutthroat backstabbing job role (thereby earning a positive reputation for his team that has created a gravity and aura around it), and finding the right coach who echoes those values, minus the backstabbing. I'm with you: if he decides to ride-or-die on Davis re-signing and spins that wheel, (A) I'll have to trust him that that's the only way we're getting another banner, and (B) he's earned the right to spin that wheel.

    That said, I'd rather go to a total rump roster and negative draft assets while keeping Tatum. I'm not sure the Lakers can top an offer of "kitchen sink sans Tatum", and the other prime competition, e.g. Toronto or the Knicks, may be out of the running by that point depending on what happens. We just have to have the best offer on the table, and the uncertainty of Davis re-signing is probably enough to save face in that regard.
     

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