Dismiss Notice
Guest, I have a big favor to ask you. We've been working very hard to establish ourselves on social media. If you like/follow our pages it would be a HUGE help to us. SoSH on Facebook and Inside the Pylon Thanks! Nip

Tatum for Davis Poll

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by Gash Prex, Jan 28, 2019.

?

Would you include Tatum in Davis trade?

  1. Yes - Assuming he agreed to an extension

    160 vote(s)
    62.5%
  2. Yes - Not conditioned on extension ( Kawhi deal)

    30 vote(s)
    11.7%
  3. No - under no circumstances should Tatum be traded

    49 vote(s)
    19.1%
  4. No - I don’t think the Celtics should trade for Davis

    17 vote(s)
    6.6%
  1. Gash Prex

    Gash Prex Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,681
    I was surprised to see some Celtics fans in this forum (and media) suggesting that Tatum should be included in a Davis trade. This seems like a non starter to me given his age, production, potential and contract status but maybe I’m missing the boat.

    If I’m DA, my response is anyone but Tatum is on the table
     
  2. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,043
    I would do it if he hasn't agreed on an extension, but not if he has explicitly stated that he wants to go to LA.
     
  3. Light-Tower-Power

    Light-Tower-Power Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,780
    I think you trade Tatum for Davis, assuming he agrees to an extension, every day and twice on Sunday. Tatum is young and has star potential but Davis in his prime for several years is a nuclear option. I blow up the prospect stash for him.
     
  4. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,168
    I would say conditionally no as the odds of anyone topping Brown/Memphis lottery pick/secondary assets is slim to nil.
     
  5. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

    Messages:
    6,962
    Right, until the Pelicans come to me and say "we prefer offer X from team Y to your current offer of Brown / R-Will / picks", I don't even consider it. Tatum is an anchor of this team for the next decade, a good portion of it will be spent being underpaid. We need that value every bit as much as we need the value of Davis outperforming a max contract.
     
  6. Big John

    Big John lurker

    Messages:
    1,357
    I would want an express commitment to an extension. "Maybe" wouldn't be good enough for me, unless the rest of the package was favorable.

    Hayward, Tatum and all 4 first rounders for Davis and another player (Mirotic, Moore, Randle, Solomon Hill-- pick one). I'd be good with that, even without Davis' commitment to stay.
     
  7. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,096
    I cannot see the Celtics opening with Tatum; they would prefer to trade Brown and other assets and see if other teams can top that.

    Trading Tatum makes sense only if AD agrees to sign an extension here, which ain't happening before the trade anyway (his agent has made that very clear).
     
  8. grantb

    grantb Couldn't get into a real school Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,029
    The Celtics can't trade for Davis unless Kyrie is involved in the deal until July 1
     
  9. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,168
    I mean come July Boston even has T-Ro to use as a sign & trade piece for any Davis deal. Frankly Brown/Rozier/Williams/Memphis lottery pick is better than the Lakers' godfather offer as Brown's a lot closer to his upside as Jimmy Butler Redux than anyone LA's dealing.
     
  10. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,168
    Really? I don't think anyone on this board knew that. Why didn't anyone mention this before!!!
     
  11. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,632
    yes you do it. But real question is, do they need to? Can they beat other offers without doing that? My answer to that is yes, therefore I would not do it, because they should have the assets to do it without dealing Tatum IMO.
     
  12. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,168
    Honestly come July first a Boston offer of Brown/Rozier (sign & trade)/Williams/Memphis Lottery pick is better than anything that LA can offer.
     
  13. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,486
    Changes everything.
     
  14. Big John

    Big John lurker

    Messages:
    1,357
    Suppose Kyrie is willing to sign a 1+1 extension now and defer his big FA payday until 2020. Would that circumvent the Rose rule? He would no longer be on his rookie extension.
     
  15. ElcaballitoMVP

    ElcaballitoMVP Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,043
    Ultimately, yes, I'd include him if Davis agreed to an extension. But I do agree that Danny doesn't have to compete with himself here. An offer of a S&T Rozier, Brown, Williams and an assortment of picks should beat out an LA offer of Kuzma, Ingram, Hart, Zubac, Stephenson and a late lotto 2019 1st or Kuzma, Ball, Ingram, Zubac, Rondo, '19 1st.

    The Pelicans would be doing themselves a disservice if they traded him before Boston could put in an offer. They can get the same offer from LA in the summer.
     
  16. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,632
    Exactly. 1 year of a Superstar for that package is still a VERY good return for NO. We don't need to trade Tatum just beacuse they want him. Show another offer that can beat that and we can discuss the possibility of Tatum. For now, the team should focus on building around Tatum and Kryie. he's only 20 (soon to be 21), he'd be THE Franchise on any other team.
     
  17. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    32,544
    Huge if true.
     
  18. The Social Chair

    The Social Chair Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,499
    If it's Taum or nothing, I do it in a heartbeat.

    Where is Davis going if the Celtics trade for him and he decides to walk? None of the glamour teams but the Knicks would have cap space unless the Lakers decide to sit on their cap space again and waste two Lebron years.
     
  19. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

    Messages:
    17,227
    Link?
     
  20. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

    Messages:
    6,962
    I've asked this around here and haven't gotten a good answer. I've read through the CBA FAQ site, and still have no idea whether a player can sign an extension mid-season. You'd think if Kyrie did, it would mean he was no longer a designated player as construed under that CBA, though.
     
  21. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,162
    You should tweet Danny LeRoux — he always has the right answer on advanced CBA questions.
     
  22. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    32,544
    Because if he signs after the season he's signing as a FA. If he signs during the season he's signing an extension.

    So yes, he *can* sign today if he wants. But he's not going to.
     
  23. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

    Messages:
    6,962
    I give it like 5% you're serious, rather than just continuing the party in yanking Grantb's chain, but just so we've got it linked and fully explained here:

    FAQ #24. Scroll down for:

    This will be Kyrie's 8th full season in the NBA, and the last of his rookie-extension contract; he has a $21M player-option for 2019-20, which he will certainly decline. His rookie-extension was a Designated Rookie Extension contract, as he was all-NBA 3rd team in 2014-15, just before signing it. Kyrie does not meet the performance criteria for a Designated Veteran (i.e., 35%-of-cap) contract, so he will only be eligible for a 30%-of-cap contract, and upon signing it will cease being a Designated Player for the purposes of the quoted rule.

    Anthony Davis is in his 7th season, with 1 more contracted season remaining after this (at $27.1M), followed by a player option he will surely decline. He is the very definition of a Designated Player, having been all-NBA 1st team in 3 of the last 4 years. As such he will be eligible for a 35%-of-cap extension with New Orleans this offseason, but if traded will be eligible for it with any team a year later, in summer 2020.

    I believe that because Kyrie is on a rookie extension contract, he is now considered a "veteran", and as a result we cannot have both him and Davis on the roster because both would have been acquired by trade, violating the quoted rule. However, the first part of that statement is not clarified by anything I've seen written.
     
  24. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

    Messages:
    6,962
    But if he signs during the season, then the terms of his contract make him no longer a designated player, meaning we're free to trade for Davis. No? Bird Rights, 8% raises, 30% of cap, etc.

    Like, what would be his downside to signing now, if this is where he wants to be? Same money either way, from what I can tell.
     
  25. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,486
    Pretty sure the money is about $7-8M less per year if he signs now.
     
  26. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    32,544
    It's not the same money. At all. https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2018/06/02/kyrie-irving-contract-situation
     
  27. Big John

    Big John lurker

    Messages:
    1,357
    Right, but if a 1+1 deal works to get around the Rose rule (it probably doesn't, but who knows?) then Kyrie only takes a one-year haircut, because he opts out in June, 2020.
     
  28. luckiestman

    luckiestman Son of the Harpy SoSH Member

    Messages:
    10,865
    Lowe’s podcast is up and discussing this with Beck and Windhorst


    Edit: Lebrons fluffer just mentioned both Kyrie & AD to the Lakers but hasn’t explained it yet
     
  29. ElcaballitoMVP

    ElcaballitoMVP Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,043
    And risks blowing out his knee. Not happening.
     
  30. Big John

    Big John lurker

    Messages:
    1,357
    Right, unless he blows it out this year. Of course, if he defers the big payday until July, 2020 and his knee holds up until then, he gets an extra year at top dollar when he's Horford's age, because his new 5-year deal would end a year later.
     
  31. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,096
    Kyrie has no real reason to sign any extension now. If the Celtics are able to work out a trade for Davis on July 1st, Kyrie will know about it before he signs on the dotted line with the Celtics or anywhere else.
     
  32. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,939
    Only if he basically IS the package and you have some guarantee of an extension. He is so much better of a piece than what other teams can offer and would probably be one of the best players ever traded on their rookie contract (no idea how to research this).

    Edit: Red one post down is about where I’d draw the line. Not where I’d start but the acceptable final offer for a top 5 player. Once Tatum is on the table it becomes very difficult for everybody else, unless Dallas is offering Luka, basically.
     
    #32 Jed Zeppelin, Jan 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  33. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    37,112
    I'd offer Tatum/Smart/R-Will/Jabari Bird's contract/Memphis and Clipper picks and tell NO to go find something better.
     
  34. luckiestman

    luckiestman Son of the Harpy SoSH Member

    Messages:
    10,865
    Tatum was the best player on a team 10 minutes away from the finals, I’ll keep him, thanks.
     
  35. Big John

    Big John lurker

    Messages:
    1,357
    Chris Haynes of Yahoo sports is reporting that AD has ruled out Boston as one of his preferred destinations.
     
  36. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    me too. If AD is up for signing here Danny could offer

    Brown + R. Williams + Al + 2 or 3 1st rounders

    see if someone can beat that
     
  37. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,496
    I think thats a premium offer. I don't think anyone gets close to that in value for a franchise that would need a quick fix rebuild.
     
  38. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    can you attach the article that says that because I read a Haynes article that said:

    Boston is not a top target for Davis, sources said. There’s a growing belief of uncertainty that Kyrie Irving will re-sign with Boston, sources said

    we'll see in the next 2 weeks...if it goes to the Summer the Celtics have a good shot if they sign Kyrie
     
  39. bellowthecat

    bellowthecat Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    237
    If it really came down to it, yes I would trade Tatum for Davis if he agreed to an extension. However I am in the camp that thinks they would still likely offer the best package without Tatum included.
     
  40. Big John

    Big John lurker

    Messages:
    1,357
    Same article I think. See https://basketball.realgm.com/wiret...e-Kyrie-Irving-Uncertain-To-Re-Sign-With-Team

    The article says "Anthony Davis has ruled out the Boston Celtics as one of his favored destinations." I changed the word "favored" to "preferred." If you think the difference in meaning between those two words is material, please feel free to comment.
     
  41. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

    Messages:
    21,329
    And Windhorst, who is basically an extension if LeBron, said Boston’s in his top 3.
    I’d offer far less and tell them to beat it. Replace Brown for Tatum there, and who’s coming close? I think even that is probably too much.
     
  42. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,313
    Brown/R-Will/Memphis/LAC is probably enough. You keep Tatum.
     
  43. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    27,377
    We would like it to be enough but even if your package tops whatever else NO is seeing, they are going to demand Tatum. The picks are great but the Pelicans need something to sell their fans now and Brown/TimeLord just won't do it.
     
  44. Reardons Beard

    Reardons Beard Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,069
    If you get Kyrie to extend and then can have Davis for one year I'd be willing to strongly consider moving Tatum, but I'm not sure you do that unless you keep Kyrie here.
     
  45. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,168
    So they’ll choose to try and market worse players and much worse draft picks instead?
     
  46. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    27,377
    To be clear, the Pelicans need to satisfy two masters - get something for now so their remaining fans still want to come to games as well as get pieces to rebuild for the future. And given the management situation in New Orleans, the former is probably more important than the latter. Does anyone who has been following this slow unfolding dynamic actually believe that Tatum will stop Ainge from pulling the trigger on Davis if they can get him?

    Like I said, they can offer Brown plus Williams, Smart and picks. However I would be surprised if the Pelicans bite on that. I love Tatum but if the Celtics want Davis, I remain convinced they will have to surrender him to get it done.

    And yes, New Orleans may entertain what we here deem to be a lesser package from other teams if it means they can sell their fans on having "good" young NBA players now.
     
  47. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,486
    If you send Tatum, you shouldn't have to send much else of real value. No one is topping just Tatum unless Philly puts Simmons on the table, and Tatum+filler is an easy sell to the NO fans.

    Part of me would rather keep Brown+Smart+TL+picks on a team that had AD & Kyrie. Tatum is going to be really good, but I'm still high on Brown, and Brown actually makes a ton of sense on a team with that much firepower, where Tatum might get a bit redundant. The Celtics have also done really well with high draft picks (Smart/Tatum/Brown), and so the Memphis pick could be inordinately valuable to us in particular.
     
  48. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,985
    If NO wants to stay somewhat relevant, it could be a Brown, Hayward, lottery pick for Davis and Moore. They sell their fans on all star Hayward and future all star Brown and a lottery pick or two
     
  49. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,313
    They have no fans, there's no one to sell anything to. (Apologies to JVGully and perhaps Lil Trekette)

    Trade AD for picks and sell the team to someone who will move them to a better market from where they can rebuild. Vancouver, MXC, Kentucky (of course this would be better to move to if you had AD, but . . ), Norfolk, etc.
     
  50. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,168
    Who are these mysterious “good young players”? LA doesn’t have them. I guess Siakam and Anunoby are OK. But that’s a much harder sell than Jaylen+. Especially given that the picks would be in the 28-30 range.
     

Share This Page