MakMan44 said:
And/or the allure of playing with Papi is a real gravitational force. I want to know what VIP rooms they hit on Panda's first night in town.
Red Sox & Pablo Sandoval agree to 5 Year, $100 Millionish Deal
- Thread starter ScubaSteveAvery
- Start date
And/or the allure of playing with Papi is a real gravitational force. I want to know what VIP rooms they hit on Panda's first night in town.
Didn't Carl Crawford, at least at first, play nice with the media?Salem's Lot said:
Look, I know there are plenty of people here who are excited given Sandoval's numbers and his post season play. I like him too. But between his weight, which I believe will be an issue (regardless of where he signed) and his hacking approach to hitting, he is going to frustrate lots of Sox fans. Again, I hope I am wrong but this just feels like a bad fit.
Hee Sox Choi said:
He said he's hearing $102M and also $98.3M. I'm guessing it's complicated by buyout/incentives/etc.
Otis Foster said:
https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/536881923298426880
link to tweet[/url][/size]
I would be thrilled if I'm wrong and you're right. Yankees miss out on their preference. As long as it doesn't turn into them. Going even harder after Lester, I'm happy. Hope you're right.
Dejesus,
Do you think Panda's personality and, for lack of a better term, infectiousness, will off-set the negativity from his style? He's got that sort of loveable quality that makes it tough to dislike him, unlike Crawford's intensity. I don't know the answer, but wondered if you had considered that?
Do you think Panda's personality and, for lack of a better term, infectiousness, will off-set the negativity from his style? He's got that sort of loveable quality that makes it tough to dislike him, unlike Crawford's intensity. I don't know the answer, but wondered if you had considered that?
Scott Lauber @ScottLauber 11s11 seconds ago
Source: At this point, all that remains in Sandoval-to-#RedSox discussion is informing Giants, Padres.
Source: At this point, all that remains in Sandoval-to-#RedSox discussion is informing Giants, Padres.
Scott Lauber @ScottLauber
Source: At this point, all that remains in Sandoval-to-#RedSox discussion is informing Giants, Padres.
Source: At this point, all that remains in Sandoval-to-#RedSox discussion is informing Giants, Padres.
Bobby Evans, if you're not busy doing radio interviews you might want to get this next phone call.
Right, and then Crawford BLEW up the relationship. We've been down this road, but Red Sox fans and the media were never really awful to the guy until he started lashing out. We wanted him to succeed. As long as Pablo keeps up the smile, I think you're wrong. Well, hope, I suppose.DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
You may be right but don't forget the value of the first impression. If Sandoval hits .400 his first month with the Sox it will overshadow so much of whatever comes afterward. If he hits .285 in 2015 with a .400 April the public will perceive him as a .325 hitter. If he hits .285 in 2015 with a .200 April the public will perceive him as a .240 hitter.DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
MakMan44 said:
This. Sox fans by and large knew Crawford well from his Tampa days and seemed to be pretty patient waiting for that guy to show up. It seems evident based on reports after his departure that Crawford was pretty miserable here almost from day 1. Sandoval's personality seems like a polar opposite and I think that will both play well in Boston and serve him well in dealing with the inevitable days when he strikes out with the game on the line or something.
Keep in mind even if he gets off to a slow start he will still be hotter than the sox 3B production of 2013.
It's an overpay but we are clearly a better team today with him on it
It's an overpay but we are clearly a better team today with him on it
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
I've obviously watched Sandoval a bunch and I think you're right. If he doesn't come out of the gate hitting I think it could get ugly. Pablo is one of those guys with an approach that makes him look awful when slumping. I wish him nothing but the best in Boston. I hope he gets a 4th ring.
Sure, we'll hate him when he swings and misses at a ball around his eyes on a 3 - 2 count. When, however, a pitcher, knowing that he swings at everything, throws a pitch 9 inches off the plate outside and he lines it into the left field corner for a go-ahead RBI double, we'll love him. If he ever has a post-season for the Sox anything like his 2012 or 2014 with the Giants, there'll be talk of a statue (well, not quiteDeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
). Finally, if he vacuums up at third base like last year, big added bonus. I was on the fence about him at the money it looks like he'll get, but with so much "invested" now reading this thread and all the tweets, I hope the Sox get him. 
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Why do you, as a Red Sox fan, give a flying fuck about whether "a lot of Red Sox fans" are frustrated. A lot of "Red Sox fans" thought Mark Bellhorn and JD Drew (and his brother) sucked, among other things.
As for Crawford.....he played nice with the media. And, as perhaps a result of that (and maybe the fact that no one perceived him to be an asshole), he was treated reasonably well by that media during his first, spectacularly mediocre, season. His "isses" with Boston were mostly his own, and didn't seem media-driven, either at the time, or in hindsight.
EDIT: what JimD said.
While everyone looks pretty bad in a slump, this sounds similar to Napoli.
IIRC, either Shank or one of the other media hacks spouted off about Crawford's 0-7 start to the 2011 season after the team lost their first 2 to Texas. After 14 games, the team was 4-10, and Crawford was moved to the 7 spot in the lineup after opening with a 0.318 OPS and a all of 2 steals. From that point on, Crawford pouted, and neither the media nor the fans were that sympathetic, especially after it became apparent that his supposedly plus OF defense was nowhere to be found. The reality is that Crawford was just one of those players who's skills fell of a cliff; he really hasn't excelled in Dodgerland either.
Sandoval will be one year younger, and has 2 fewer years on his contract. But I agree that this deal carries some risk, as he's not exactly a prototypical power hitter despite his power hitting build. However, this is a team that needed some left-handed pop, and they got that.
Sandoval will be one year younger, and has 2 fewer years on his contract. But I agree that this deal carries some risk, as he's not exactly a prototypical power hitter despite his power hitting build. However, this is a team that needed some left-handed pop, and they got that.
If nothing else, can we please stop citing raw OPS as evidence of anything? It isn't 2003 any more. We have better numbers which are really, really easy to find.PrometheusWakefield said:
As for some content, Sandoval has a career 122 wRC+. Over the last three season he put up 118, 116, and 111. Steamer projects him to put up a 130 wRC+ in 2015. Meanwhile, MLB 1st basemen combined to put up a 109 wRC+ last season, a mark Sandoval has fallen short of exactly once in his seven year career to date.
And, as others have said, the Red Sox are definitely not done.
Perhaps I was unclear. Sandoval, who has only ever known playing in front of an adoring fanbase might care what Sox fans think. If they turn hostile, as has happened from time to time, I could see him struggling with the pressure. As others have pointed out, he seems to have a great attitude and that may help him through rough patches. However, that was in the relatively low pressure environment of San Francisco. Playing in Boston is an entirely different thing.joe dokes said:
Anyhow I've stated my view so I will stop now and let people enjoy the news again. Like I said earlier, I am a fan of his and I want the Sox to win so I hope I am wrong.
If we use a conservative estimate for the value of a win and start with 6.5 million, Sandoval will need to be worth a touch over 2.9 WAR per season to earn his contract. That's 14.6 or so over the five years. If the value really is 7 million, then he needs to be worth 2.7 or so per year, or 13.6. He's averaged about 2.6 per season over the last three years, so if this is an overpay, it's not much of one unless you expect him to fall off a cliff before his age 32 season. He's heavy, but I think some of the reactions to his conditioning have been a bit overboard. Even in the new amphetamine free and PED-lite MLB, players aren't dropping off a cliff in their very early 30's that often. 33 seems to be the point where guys start having serious health and performance issues.
I still don't think this is a great move, but it shouldn't be a head scratcher for anyone, and it isn't some kind of travesty. It's a solid move where they are paying something around market rate for a free agent who fills a need. Sandoval was targeted specifically to fill the hole at third base. I think Hanley was probably a target of opportunity that the team became far more interested in when they realized he would move off of short and would sign for significantly less than many people expected. Collect assets where you can.
I still don't think this is a great move, but it shouldn't be a head scratcher for anyone, and it isn't some kind of travesty. It's a solid move where they are paying something around market rate for a free agent who fills a need. Sandoval was targeted specifically to fill the hole at third base. I think Hanley was probably a target of opportunity that the team became far more interested in when they realized he would move off of short and would sign for significantly less than many people expected. Collect assets where you can.
It is also important to note that the front office does not look at wins in a linear fashion. Cherington mentioned it at the seminar that the 1 win always equals $X isn't how they view the value of wins.
Botero sculpture for certain.Al Zarilla said:Sure, we'll hate him when he swings and misses at a ball around his eyes on a 3 - 2 count. When, however, a pitcher, knowing that he swings at everything, throws a pitch 9 inches off the plate outside and he lines it into the left field corner for a go-ahead RBI double, we'll love him. If he ever has a post-season for the Sox anything like his 2012 or 2014 with the Giants, there'll be talk of a statue (well, not quite
Lars The Wanderer said:
I don't think people understand just how frustrating Pablo is to watch on a day-to-day basis. I'm a huge, huge fan of his, I even own a panda hat. But he is also the player that most upsets and aggravates me. It's very, very easy to fall into the latter category more often than not. There's a ton of attributes, but you have to understand why Giants fans love him. He came in during a really dark time for the Giants where there weren't a ton of players who were fun to watch. It's difficult to recreate that atmosphere. He will come into Boston with a huge contract and a fanbase that's not sold on him. He will struggle and you won't have that experience of him being the only player you love because Emmanuel Burriss is your starting second baseman and Fred Lewis is in left.
Reports are now that the Giants offered close to 5/$95 million in SPRING, but he wanted to test the market. So the crap that he was insulted by their offer is either him being really, really petulant or just total nonsense. The Giants have been given what the feel is a genuine denial by Sandoval's agents that he's decided on Boston (current as of about five minutes ago), so I don't know that this is completely done yet.
Fangraphs posted this chart in a piece about the Blue Jays signing Russell Martin. It's worthwhile to look at here though:
All the way to the left is the AL East. Way more bunched up than any other division, by far. I don't know if 100M to Panda is the way to do it, but the Sox are definitely at the point on the win curve where it makes sense to spend, especially given the importance of winning a division with no clear frontrunner.
All the way to the left is the AL East. Way more bunched up than any other division, by far. I don't know if 100M to Panda is the way to do it, but the Sox are definitely at the point on the win curve where it makes sense to spend, especially given the importance of winning a division with no clear frontrunner.
The only question left is what the marketing will look like....
Papi and the Panda
The 3 Amigos
The POH boys
Papi and the Panda
The 3 Amigos
The POH boys
I hope (note that word - hope) that we are getting a player, who someday can sit at the right hand of George Scott in the Red Sox pantheon. (Left hand is acceptable too.)
gaelgirl said:
Good to see that Giants are taking their queues from the Red Sox front office and leaking info to kill a player as he leaves town. This has got to be my least favorite thing about the Red Sox and it's nice to see another ownership and front office fall into the same trap.
I am pleased with the work the Ben has done to remake this lineup and am excited for opening day right now. I'd love to get Lester and trade for another starter but that is in front of us and I'm enjoying being the Belle of the ball today.
Love the signings due to the serious offensive upgrade to 3B and LF. Love.
What I see as a difference between Crawford and Sandoval is that many on SoSH were predicting/projecting that his skill set did not match well with Fenway. I've not see the projections for how Sandoval's hitting skills project in Fenway but figure if it was expected to be below what he's produced up to now, it would be discussed prominently in these threads.
What I see as a difference between Crawford and Sandoval is that many on SoSH were predicting/projecting that his skill set did not match well with Fenway. I've not see the projections for how Sandoval's hitting skills project in Fenway but figure if it was expected to be below what he's produced up to now, it would be discussed prominently in these threads.
I love this guy's personality and he's a fine player, but this contract (despite some pretty aggressive views on where wages are going) is not something I'm excited about.
It's not my money and I think he'll be fine but I don't see a star, and I see a guy who could fall off a cliff quickly in a couple years.
It's a bit too long for me, and a bit rich. But I'm very happy to root for the guy and hope I'm wrong. I really liked Hanley for 3B, and am still a bit bemused how this plays out.
If they have some trades lined up this could all come together and I'll be delighted, and totally talk myself into the extra year and millions. I didn't and don't think he was the best option for third base, but given that they are signing the guy who I thought would be, hard to argue. If that comes at the expense of a good starter, then I'll be more irritated.
For example, if they turn Cespedes in Hamels then um yes! Hard to be sure with half the picture unfinished
It's not my money and I think he'll be fine but I don't see a star, and I see a guy who could fall off a cliff quickly in a couple years.
It's a bit too long for me, and a bit rich. But I'm very happy to root for the guy and hope I'm wrong. I really liked Hanley for 3B, and am still a bit bemused how this plays out.
If they have some trades lined up this could all come together and I'll be delighted, and totally talk myself into the extra year and millions. I didn't and don't think he was the best option for third base, but given that they are signing the guy who I thought would be, hard to argue. If that comes at the expense of a good starter, then I'll be more irritated.
For example, if they turn Cespedes in Hamels then um yes! Hard to be sure with half the picture unfinished
That contract isn't going to pay for itself, so Panda heads are coming to Fenway. As are Ram horned hats to celebrate our new PanRam infused lineup.
The years make this deal palatable. For some perspective, when this deal is over, the Yankees will still owe Ellsbury $26MM.
Panda gives no f***s what any of you think about his deal. I've moved on from disappointed about the dollars to excited about our new player.
jose melendez said:
Here are
The two hamate bone operations in 2011 and 2012: they account for more than half of his missed games to injury, and I suspect suppressed his power somewhat for a period after his return. So at 28, I would not be surprised to see his ISO jump back up again with those hand issues behind him.
His two .900+ OPS outlier years were connected to spikes in HR/FB: basically, the difference between his great years and the others are that in the great years, 14-16% of his FB went out, and in the others, it was only (a more typical) 8-9%. That might be something that Fenway helps, it also might not be.
His BABIPs have ranged between .290-.350ish, generally above .300. With his low strikeout rates and moderate walk rates, that pretty reliably produces a .280/.340ish average/OBP.
He started 2014 in a deep slump (reportedly he was trying to become more patient at the plate) then busted out in mid-May with a return to his previous approach, and was great for three months (.850+ OPS) until he went into a slump in September. After a three week hiccup, he found his stride again and was good in the postseason. He's streaky.
The cause for optimism is that he hits a lot of line drives, and that that has stayed steady even as his ISO has declined; the ISO decline is mostly in HR/FB. That said, he's totally enigmatic. He plays in a park and division that should suppress the offense of a LHH power bat, but hits great in AT&T, and better in Petco than Coors. So who knows?
soxhop411 said:
Yes, God forbid people have fun!
This is baseball and it seriousness should not be mocked!
It's a perfectly reasonable contract in isolation. What makes it crazy (imo) is:Snodgrass'Muff said:
a) It forces us to move Hanley into the outfield, where we already have seven outfielders who arguably deserve to see playing time. Even if you assume that there is already a deal for Cespedes on the table, at best the Sandoval signing (and subsequent Hanley move to LF) replaces someone in the range of Craig, Victorino, or Nava. I think the chances of us getting 2.6 WAR from one of those three guys is pretty damn high, and that's before you think about Cecchini and Marrero, without new spending $19 million per season.
b) It reduces our flexibility to move Boegarts to third, which is where I think he's likely headed in the not too distant future.
c) WE HAVE NO STARTING ROTATION. I mean, I'm sure the front office has plans for the top two spots in the rotation but even so beyond those spots, I can't believe that this money wouldn't be better spent on a starter when we have huge black holes in the rotation and no need whatsoever for another outfielder and third baseman.
Alex Pavlovic @AlexPavlovic
Bobby Evans on @957thegame said he asked Sandoval about difference between Giants/Red Sox. Sandoval liked ability to be DH.
Bobby Evans on @957thegame said he asked Sandoval about difference between Giants/Red Sox. Sandoval liked ability to be DH.
Let's remember our AL representative's World Series rotation this year:
1. Shields
2. Yordano Ventura
3. Jason Vargas
4. Jeremy Gutrie
5. Danny Duffy
Even the Giants rotation was suspect after MadBum. You don't need 4 Aces. (2 good SP would be nice though!)
1. Shields
2. Yordano Ventura
3. Jason Vargas
4. Jeremy Gutrie
5. Danny Duffy
Even the Giants rotation was suspect after MadBum. You don't need 4 Aces. (2 good SP would be nice though!)