Red Sox Deadline Discussion
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Is it wrong that I want the Dodgers to completely fail in everything just so we win the Punto trade?DrewDawg said:
'Cause I would love to see the Bucs best the Bums, but San Fran is going to have to do some damage to make that happen.
I'd be thrilled to get Martinez from St Louis....he makes one of our other AAA starters expendable in a deal for a bat. I feared him in the at offs last year....nasty stuff but I'm sure there are warts. Either way....best player available should be the goal....even if OF is the glaring need
Rasputin said:
Well, no, but I think the 2014 Red Sox have a better shot at winning the world series than the Dodgers have of coming out of that one a winner.
Part of that goal should also be flipping these assets before they lose their perceived value. My biggest fear is we play the prospect hoarding game perpetually whilst clinging to the 2013 grace period.
Rasputin said:
Ras, what if we load up on prospects and then the Marlins say they absolutely won't trade Stanton next year. Who do we go after then?
Doesn't have the same effect. We obsess over Stanton because he's the only remotely available masher in his 20s we might sniff at this decade. Heyward can match him in WAR but won't solve our problems to the same degree. Stanton will strike fear in a pitchers heart but Heyward won't scare batters out of driving one to CF....it doesn't work that way. Trouts off the market, Harper will be. Who else can you throw 300 mil at and sleep easy at? It's him or hope the synergy of our system can amount to a great run scoring machine sans the legit power threatBuzzkill Pauley said:
Buzzkill Pauley said:
I wonder if we could overpay for Jose Abreu. Yes, he's great, but the White Sox are a couple of years from competing. Seems like we will have enough talent to possibly overpay for him and jump-start the White Sox return to glory a year or 2 early.
I'm sorry, I'm still watching MLB Network and Harold Reynolds is making arguments that are so stupid regarding the AL Cy Young that I truly can't believe he has a job. He must have serious serious blackmail material on Selig.
He keeps going on and on about how Tanaka should still be considered as a Cy Young contender.
He keeps going on and on about how Tanaka should still be considered as a Cy Young contender.
CaskNFappin said:
Heyward's in his age-24 season, and has a career .783 OPS in 2500+ MLB plate appearances.
There's more than enough room for improvement. After all, David Arias only had a .796 OPS in 220 PA with the Twinkies before his age-25 season. Lots can happen.
And if Stanton is the only player who will have the same effect, but isn't available, the smart move is simply to remain patient and wait until he is.
StuckOnYouk said:
Somebody has to be stupid, right? It's like a cold, windy day in February to make Spring seem better.
Frank said:
It's pretty astounding what a quality job Greg Amsinger does on that show. Tonight he had HR and Byrnes. Amsinger (and I had to look his name up like three times before it sunk in) is practically Letterman-esque the way he can let those two dumb away at each other before reeling it back in with a goof on whomever deserves it more and then segueing to the next subject.
Hee Sox Choi, on 31 Jul 2014 - 12:42 AM, said:
Papelbon's Poutine, on 31 Jul 2014 - 2:49 AM, said:
Tulo.
* * *
Can someone please explain to me why Tulowitzki is worth emptying out the farm for? He'll be 30 years old next year, he OPSes just over .800 away from Coors*, he seems to be increasingly injury prone as he ages, and he'll have six years and $114 million remaining on his contract even as he plays one of the most physically demanding positions in baseball. Is there reason to believe he'll hit in Fenway the way he does in Coors?
[*His eye-popping, league-leading numbers this year--.340/.432/.603--are ALL Coors, where he's at an insane .417/.497/.748. His away stats for 2014: .257/.364/.447.]
Hee Sox Choi said:
Papelbon's Poutine, on 31 Jul 2014 - 2:49 AM, said:
Tulo.
* * *
Can someone please explain to me why Tulowitzki is worth emptying out the farm for? He'll be 30 years old next year, he OPSes just over .800 away from Coors*, he seems to be increasingly injury prone as he ages, and he'll have six years and $114 million remaining on his contract even as he plays one of the most physically demanding positions in baseball. Is there reason to believe he'll hit in Fenway the way he does in Coors?
[*His eye-popping, league-leading numbers this year--.340/.432/.603--are ALL Coors, where he's at an insane .417/.497/.748. His away stats for 2014: .257/.364/.447.]
I'm with you. I'll take 120 games from Tulo because he's that good when he plays.
Anyway, if people have injury concerns about Tulo then Stanton has more red flags because his injuries are muscle related and repeating. Of course, age is an important consideration too which is why I'd pay a similar price for Stanton and Tulo.
Anyway, if people have injury concerns about Tulo then Stanton has more red flags because his injuries are muscle related and repeating. Of course, age is an important consideration too which is why I'd pay a similar price for Stanton and Tulo.
Just to reiterate your thorough analysis, as a Rockies fan since the franchise started here (and before that someone who followed the Zephyrs and attends Sky Sox games in Colorado Springs; in other words, someone who is accustomed to baseball at altitude), I have seen that as much as Coors and the altitude may inflate hitters numbers, their road numbers are just as deflated. One reason for this is because Rockies players play half of their road games in San Diego, LA, San Francisco, and Arizona, some of the worst hitters parks in all of baseball.Papelbon's Poutine said:
But another reason often ignored, and perhaps the main one, is that when a Rockies player hits on the road, breaking balls have a much greater break to them than at home, so a bigger adjustment must be made than every other team in MLB when hitting at home vs. the road. There was a thread about this here on SOSH that referenced a study about this, but I am to lazy to dig it up right now.
The bottom line is that Tulo is a damn good player regardless of where he plays, and as a Sox fan, I like the idea of trying to acquire him even though it would mean unloading several top prospects.
Furthermore, his contract is a friendly one in today's inflated market, not an albatross like some other players'
mabrowndog said:
The team that holds Lackey's contract would have to put him on the RL in order to not pay him and to prevent him from playing anywhere else.
I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to this. The issue, I think, is that the RL is generally seen as punitive in and of itself - that is, a player who is placed on the RL loses service time, salary, and the ability to play anywhere else. Because of this, I don't think the people who drafted the basic agreement ever thought of a situation where it would be in the player's best interest to go on the RL.
Because the player is getting any benefits, without explicit language, I can't imagine how the contract would continue. Perhaps the team holding Lackey's contract could get some compensation out of the situation since it is my understanding that the team has to petition the league office to allow Lackey back into the game in 2016, but that's purely speculation on my part.
It will be interesting to see how Dempster and Franklin Gutierrez - who also went on the RL because he felt too physically ill to play this year - are handled if they do intend to return to baseball. I mean if Gutierrez can say he doesn't feel well enough to play, can get put on the RL, and then can choose his next team, then I see no reason why Lackey couldn't do the same thing.
Am I wrong in thinking that this trade raises Lackey's trade value at this point? Is he not the best available now, assuming Price is off the table?
It looks to me from a simplistic view that we got Cespedes for one year (his contract allows him to become a free agent after the 2015 season if he doesn't have a new contract) for Gomes and however much money we sent. If Lester walked at the end of the year, we'd get the pick, so that's a wash.
If we get Lester back next year (pipedream?), look out. Can't wait to see what other pieces Ben is able to get for Drew, Carp, Lackey, or anyone else.
Lastly, very happy for both Lester and Gomes. Hope they win it all, now.
It looks to me from a simplistic view that we got Cespedes for one year (his contract allows him to become a free agent after the 2015 season if he doesn't have a new contract) for Gomes and however much money we sent. If Lester walked at the end of the year, we'd get the pick, so that's a wash.
If we get Lester back next year (pipedream?), look out. Can't wait to see what other pieces Ben is able to get for Drew, Carp, Lackey, or anyone else.
Lastly, very happy for both Lester and Gomes. Hope they win it all, now.
Now we need to move Drew and put Xander back at SS for the next two months.
If he doesn't play SS in these two months of garbage time, then I don't see him playing it next year either, when (hopefully) the games will matter for us again.
Let him play the position he's played his whole life and see how he does, that would be important info for this offseason. Unless they've already given up on him at SS after his first two months playing it in the majors, which seems pretty overreactive. He looked solid for the last few weeks he played there, it's not like he was some disaster or something.
If he doesn't play SS in these two months of garbage time, then I don't see him playing it next year either, when (hopefully) the games will matter for us again.
Let him play the position he's played his whole life and see how he does, that would be important info for this offseason. Unless they've already given up on him at SS after his first two months playing it in the majors, which seems pretty overreactive. He looked solid for the last few weeks he played there, it's not like he was some disaster or something.
MakMan44 said:
I think they absolutely move Lackey. My guess is that people are willing to trade more for Lackey than Lester, given the extra (cheap) year. They also have to trade Miller today.
The rest of the year becomes an audition for the pitching staff. Hopefully, we can 1-2 starter, a bullpen guy and a trade bait guy out of the audition.
DrewDawg said:
Probably not, but they might pay Shields for shorter years. 3 years and an option or 4 years at something like 18 AAV still fits with their MO. Shields, Lackey, Buchholz, Workman and RDLR with Webster, Ranaudo, Owens, Wright and even Barnes mixed in as depth and bullpen arms is a solid, playoff caliber rotation. Victorino, Pedroia, Ortiz, Napoli, Cespedes, Bogaerts, Middlebrooks, Vazquez, JBJ is a playoff caliber lineup. Betts, Holt, Nava and a free agent catcher is a deep bench.
This team can absolutely get back to the top of the division in 2015.
MakMan44 said:
No, he's gone too. Leave the guns, take the cannoli. Ben is now taking full control of the family business.
4/36 for Cespedes in 2012. 5/110 for Lester in spring training. They could have had both players on below market deals.
SemperFidelisSox said:
This is hindsight in its purest form. How was Cespedes' deal, when it was signed, below market value? It was signed on the open market with a team that he had no relationship with. I'd say 4/36 was exactly his market value when it was signed.
Why is shields going to sign for so much less than Lester?
I mean maybe it happens but I don't really get it. In a world where the Homer Bailey contract is a thing I don't see Shields going for 4/75 unless there is no demand. And at that price why wouldn't KC compete?
I mean maybe it happens but I don't really get it. In a world where the Homer Bailey contract is a thing I don't see Shields going for 4/75 unless there is no demand. And at that price why wouldn't KC compete?