Red Sox Deadline Discussion

[soxhop411]

SumnerH  said I should start the trade rumors thread this year.
 
Seems like COL is scouting our AA/AAA teams early this year...
 
 
The Rockies are watching the Red Sox’ Double and Triple-A teams very closely.  Even though the Rockies are off to a good start and assistant GM Mike Hazen tells the Sox have not heard from Colorado about a trade, Cafardo says it’s something to keep an eye on down the road.     The Red Sox’ outfield started sluggishly and the Rockies have a surplus of outfielders, but at this time nothing like that has been discussed
 
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/04/cafardo-on-red-sox-rockies-towers-quentin.html#disqus_thread

 

[bosockboy]

I assume that means CarGo. I can't imagine they would move someone cheap and productive like Blackmon.

I think LF is the glaring hole on this roster.....not sure Colorado would be the answer.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Based simply on the fact that this "rumor" is Nick Cafardo's baseless musing, I'm going to go ahead and say there's nothing to it and nothing to discuss.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

I assume that means CarGo. I can't imagine they would move someone cheap and productive like Blackmon.

I think LF is the glaring hole on this roster.....not sure Colorado would be the answer.

 
I would think Cuddyer, a pending free agent, would be the more likely target.

 

[bosockboy]

I would think Cuddyer, a pending free agent, would be the more likely target.

Yes that didn't occur to me for some reason. He'd be a pretty good fit as he can play emergency corner infield.

 

[Rooster Crows]

I assume that means CarGo. I can't imagine they would move someone cheap and productive like Blackmon.
I think LF is the glaring hole on this roster.....not sure Colorado would be the answer.

pl

Please pardon my ignorance. . . . "Car go"" - who/what is that?

 

[bosockboy]

pl
Please pardon my ignorance. . . . "Car go"" - who/what is that?

Carlos Gonzalez.

 

[AbbyNoho]

Cuddyer is currently on the DL and coming off a career year aided by a .385 BABIP. I don't know where he'd fit considering he isn't a CFer.

 

[MakMan44]

Cuddyer is currently on the DL and coming off a career year aided by a .385 BABIP. I don't know where he'd fit considering he isn't a CFer.

Yeah, I got the sense they were talking about one of their extra pieces, more like Drew Stubbs than Cuddyer or CarGo.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

What in the world would we do with Drew Stubbs? He's a terrible hitter with no positional versatility. He'd have to replace either Carp or Sizemore on the roster, and as unimpressive as both have been so far, I think Stubbs would be a step down from either. He's a pretty good defensive CF, but we already have one of those.

 

[Sox and Rocks]

If there's any truth to these rumors, it's probably Drew Stubbs, Corey Dickerson, or Brandon Barnes.  I don't think the Rockies trading Cuddyer or Cargo is very realistic, and Blackmon is probably close to untouchable at this point.  
 
On Cuddyer: It's true that he's on the last year of his deal and they have OF surplus, but the organization expects to compete this year (and they are thus far) and they love his attitude/leadership in the clubhouse (the Rockies publicly espouse the value of leadership/chemistry and see Cuddyer as one of the leaders in this).  He's also somewhat of a platoon partner with Justin Morneau at 1st base, so while they can afford to lose his outfield play due to the depth there, replacing his play at 1st would be a huge issue.  In other words, the Sox would have to back up the truck for him or the Rockies will have to be out of contention closer to the deadline for this to be a realistic option,
 
CarGo is a similar situation.  They value his versatility and left-handed bat in the lineup.  His large contract going forward makes him slightly more expendable, but it's no albatross by any means, and this is an organization that has taken heat for its low payroll.  If they move him it will have to be for a stud prospect or two and probably a current big leager who helps them with a need elsewhere so it isn't seen as a salary dump.   

 

[MakMan44]

What in the world would we do with Drew Stubbs? He's a terrible hitter with no positional versatility. He'd have to replace either Carp or Sizemore on the roster, and as unimpressive as both have been so far, I think Stubbs would be a step down from either. He's a pretty good defensive CF, but we already have one of those.

Only one of the spare OFers that the Rockies have that I could remember off the top of my head. S&R kindly pointed out the rest. 

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Carlos Gonzalez *is* a Scott Boras client, and this *is* a Nick Cafardo article

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

Only one of the spare OFers that the Rockies have that I could remember off the top of my head. S&R kindly pointed out the rest. 

 
S&R pointed out why he might be the only OF the Rockies would be interested in dealing to us. But I still don't see why we'd be interested in trading for him.

 

[garlan5]

Are we talking trading out fielder for out fielder? We seem to have more out fielders than space, ie Daniel Nava shipped down. That doesn't seem like something that makes sense with Colorado. If our problems are outfield production then I see little value to give the rockies a reason to make a deal with us.

 

[garlan5]

What I mean to say is if we are truly trying to upgrade at outfield we need to move two outfielders due to redundancy unless we could deal carp and have nava come back up and back up first and outfield. To me Carp plus Grady or Gomes isn't a deal that is too appealing right now.

 

[bosockboy]

I think the OF speculation would involve Grady becoming a pumpkin and a candidate for release.

 

[DJnVa]

Cuddyer is currently on the DL and coming off a career year aided by a .385 BABIP. I don't know where he'd fit considering he isn't a CFer.

 
Even disregarding his career year, he's been a solid offensive player his whole career. If we wanted him, it wasn't because he won the NL batting title.

 

[MakMan44]

 
S&R pointed out why he might be the only OF the Rockies would be interested in dealing to us. But I still don't see why we'd be interested in trading for him.

I agree, I don't see a fit either. He's basically Gomes, it would be completely redundant to acquire him. 

 

[mattymatty]

As far as Carlos Gonzalez goes, there's obviously the whole home/road splits issue that you'd have with just about any player coming out of Colorado. He has a .990 OPS at home, about 40 percent above average, but a .768 OPS on the road, making him about a league average hitter outside Coors Field. The other part is that, and this actually fits with Cafardo's story a bit, is his AAV goes way up next season. He signed a 7 year, $80 million deal that takes him through 2017. But, he makes $53 million of that in the last three seasons of the deal (2015-17). It wouldn't be shocking if Colorado were gauging interest at this point now that they've used up all the cheap seasons on his contract. 
 
How he fits with the Red Sox is a tougher question to answer. As long as the Red Sox are committed to Jackie Bradley in center (i.e. they don't move him as part of some trade for Giancarlo Stanton or, you know, Carlos Gonzalez), and Shane Victorino in right (hard to see him dealt), that leaves left field. He can certainly play left in Fenway, but so can Jonny Gomes for about $40 fewer million. Also he's a lefty which would give the Red Sox an all-lefty outfield to go along with their all-righty infield. 
 
It's an interesting name, and Gonzalez is still fairly young, but in the end, I don't see how the Red Sox could possibly make a trade for Gonzalez because, let's not kid ourselves, Chad Finn would never, ever, in a million years, stand for it. 

 

[Adrian's Dome]

Also he's a lefty which would give the Red Sox an all-lefty outfield to go along with their all-righty infield. 

 
 Very minor point, but in what world is Shane Victorino a lefty?

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

I'm guessing this will be a busy thread if every time a team has a noticeable scouting contingent in Portland or Pawtucket, we decide to start speculating.  The Red Sox have, at worst, a top 5 farm system coming into the year.  Teams are going to be scouting them heavily all season.  There are a lot of players for other organizations to be interested in.  I'm no suggesting that there will never be legitimate trade talks going on or that we should ignore everything until there are reports about actual offers being made.  I'm just pointing out that this may end up being a very long thread and that it's a result of having a fantastic farm system, so it's a good thing and a small price to pay to be in this position.
 
Said differently: It's a great time to be rooting for the Red Sox.

 

[WenZink]

Some of these scouts may be bargain hunters, knowing that the Sox are facing 40-man roster-protection issues this fall, and the fact that some prospects (Cecchini, Betts) may be blocked.  The Pawsox starting rotation seems full as well, with Workman, Webster, Barnes, De La Rosa and Ranaudo potentially blocking Owens or Couch at Portland if either should demonstrate they need to be challenged. How much time can the system give to mid-20's pitchers to show they can get their sh t together? 

 

[benhogan]

Some of these scouts may be bargain hunters, knowing that the Sox are facing 40-man roster-protection issues this fall, and the fact that some prospects (Cecchini, Betts) may be blocked.  The Pawsox starting rotation seems full as well, with Workman, Webster, Barnes, De La Rosa and Ranaudo potentially blocking Owens or Couch at Portland if either should demonstrate they need to be challenged. How much time can the system give to mid-20's pitchers to show they can get their sh t together? 

On this point. Seems like we also have an abundance of catchers. Lavarnaway, Butler, and Vasquez look Major League ready plus 22yr old and #4 prospect Blake Swihart has been turning heads at AA so far this year with his bat (after being voted top defensive player in minor league system in 2013). Optimistically Blake could be ready by the middle/end of next season.
 
I could see Lavarnaway being dangled for a AAA/AAAA youngish CFer like Barnes. We lack some depth at CF/RF at the major league and high minor league levels, I agree with Plympton91 on that point.
 
Personally I like Denorfia (not youngish or AAAA player) on SD as CF/RF depth, if the Grady (not a CFer anymore IMO) experiment fizzles out over the next month. I could see a player like Denorfria playing CF against LHP and spelling Victorino 1-2X a week.  Not sure what it would take to land him, but this is the last year of his contract, and he won't be getting a qualifying offer. SD has Venable and Maybin signed up longer term.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

CarGo's road splits 2011/2012/2013

.757/.706/.987 for a three year average of .804 ..

So he's not chopped liver .. He's a pretty good player - especially if he's a CF (which he probably wouldn't be in Boston) .. This is probably what you might have expected from Ellsbury for the next three or four years - minus 20 SB and inferior defense.

 

[mattymatty]

 
 Very minor point, but in what world is Shane Victorino a lefty?

I meant as a hitter. Victorino is still a switch hitter and thus bats lefty most of the time. 
 
Gonzalez is better than just his road numbers (not that anyone was disputing this). Players should get some credit for their home numbers, even if that credit should be discounted when looking at a player in Colorado. 

 

[Sampo Gida]

I meant as a hitter. Victorino is still a switch hitter and thus bats lefty most of the time. 
 
Gonzalez is better than just his road numbers (not that anyone was disputing this). Players should get some credit for their home numbers, even if that credit should be discounted when looking at a player in Colorado. 

 
 
I usually just add 50 OPS to a players road numbers since that's about the average H-A differential, and a bit more if his hit charts look as if they will play well at Fenway.

 

[ji oh]

On this point. Seems like we also have an abundance of catchers. Lavarnaway, Butler, and Vasquez look Major League ready plus 22yr old and #4 prospect Blake Swihart has been turning heads at AA so far this year with his bat (after being voted top defensive player in minor league system in 2013). Optimistically Blake could be ready by the middle/end of next season.
 
I could see Lavarnaway being dangled for a AAA/AAAA youngish CFer like Barnes. We lack some depth at CF/RF at the major league and high minor league levels, I agree with Plympton91 on that point.
 
...

 
Lavarnway's current trade value is about that of the lint in my pockets.  If we are lucky, we could trade him for another failed prospect whom we can turn around.

 

[snowmanny]

I meant as a hitter. Victorino is still a switch hitter and thus bats lefty most of the time. 
 

So far this year he is not a switch hitter.

 

[Granite Sox]

How much time can the system give to mid-20's pitchers to show they can get their sh t together? 

 
I agree.  I think the "youngsters" in Pawtucket have value... I just don't see a couple of them as having a ton of value to the Red Sox (snobby viewpoint).
 
I'm almost of the opinion that Webster and Ranaudo have crested in terms of realizing their potential and "are what they are".  In that sense, they would have value for other franchises, but I don't see either being an impact pitcher for the Sox.  Ditto for a couple of the catchers, as benhogan states above.  Letting Swihart and Vazquez continue to grow and advance is obviously the plan, so in the latter half of this year there may be some off-loading of some of the other minor league Cs.
 
So, although it may be unsexy, these guys could be traded for other complementary prospects or swapped to fill organizational gaps at certain positions (upper level outfield?)
 
Of course, it may also just be that scouts are gravitating towards Feats of Mookie.

 

[WenZink]

 
I agree.  I think the "youngsters" in Pawtucket have value... I just don't see a couple of them as having a ton of value to the Red Sox (snobby viewpoint).
 
I'm almost of the opinion that Webster and Ranaudo have crested in terms of realizing their potential and "are what they are".  In that sense, they would have value for other franchises, but I don't see either being an impact pitcher for the Sox.  Ditto for a couple of the catchers, as benhogan states above.  Letting Swihart and Vazquez continue to grow and advance is obviously the plan, so in the latter half of this year there may be some off-loading of some of the other minor league Cs.
 
So, although it may be unsexy, these guys could be traded for other complementary prospects or swapped to fill organizational gaps at certain positions (upper level outfield?)
 
Of course, it may also just be that scouts are gravitating towards Feats of Mookie.

It's rare that prospects are traded for prospects.  Usually when players from the minors are swapped for other farm players its for organizational depth.
 
I'm not sure why prospects aren't swapped for prospects?  It may be that organizations hate to give up on kids that they once projected to be studs, and that they continue to rate them so highly.  Not to mention that organizations don't trust each other on their own public evaluations.  It would be like swapping your used car for someone else's used car.  Prospects are routinely traded for major league talent, but I'm assuming it's because at least one side of the proposed trade is a known quantity.  Still, I hope that there is a level of trust between Epstein/Hoyer and Cherrington, so that some of the 25-something pitchers in Pawtucket could be swapped for a Cub prospect, which has a relative glut in OF prospects, but a dearth in pitching prospects.
 
btw I agree with ji oh that Lavarnway's trade value is low... although he did go to Yale.  Maybe fellow Yale alumnus, Theo Epstein, could be enticed into giving up something good for an all Eli battery of Breslow/Lavarnway -- old boy network and all.  They're just poor little lambs who have lost their way.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

So far this year he is not a switch hitter.

 
And perhaps even more to the point, he has been, throughout his career, an excellent hitter vs. LHP and a mediocre one vs. RHP. So from a lineup-construction point of view it makes no sense to think of him as a lefthanded hitter.

 

[Chad Finn]

As far as Carlos Gonzalez goes, there's obviously the whole home/road splits issue that you'd have with just about any player coming out of Colorado. He has a .990 OPS at home, about 40 percent above average, but a .768 OPS on the road, making him about a league average hitter outside Coors Field. The other part is that, and this actually fits with Cafardo's story a bit, is his AAV goes way up next season. He signed a 7 year, $80 million deal that takes him through 2017. But, he makes $53 million of that in the last three seasons of the deal (2015-17). It wouldn't be shocking if Colorado were gauging interest at this point now that they've used up all the cheap seasons on his contract. 
 
How he fits with the Red Sox is a tougher question to answer. As long as the Red Sox are committed to Jackie Bradley in center (i.e. they don't move him as part of some trade for Giancarlo Stanton or, you know, Carlos Gonzalez), and Shane Victorino in right (hard to see him dealt), that leaves left field. He can certainly play left in Fenway, but so can Jonny Gomes for about $40 fewer million. Also he's a lefty which would give the Red Sox an all-lefty outfield to go along with their all-righty infield. 
 
It's an interesting name, and Gonzalez is still fairly young, but in the end, I don't see how the Red Sox could possibly make a trade for Gonzalez because, let's not kid ourselves, Chad Finn would never, ever, in a million years, stand for it. 

 
Would so!

 

[bellowthecat]

With respect to CarGo's road numbers the other parks in his division are Arizona, SF, SD, and LA.  Arizona aside, those ballparks are places where hitters go to die.  People made the same stink about Justin Upton's road numbers as well for playing in Arizona and, while he hasn't quite lived up to the hype, he performed just fine last year in Atlanta.  CarGo can hit and would be a good pickup if the Sox don't have to give major of value for him and take on that whole contract.  It's through 2017 and this is his age 28 season now.  Guy has a 135 career wRC+ against RHH and a 101 wRC+ against lefties.  If the Rockies are trying to dump that contract this year or next count me in.

 

[Lowrielicious]

With respect to CarGo's road numbers the other parks in his division are Arizona, SF, SD, and LA.  Arizona aside, those ballparks are places where hitters go to die.  People made the same stink about Justin Upton's road numbers as well for playing in Arizona and, while he hasn't quite lived up to the hype, he performed just fine last year in Atlanta.  CarGo can hit and would be a good pickup if the Sox don't have to give major of value for him and take on that whole contract.  It's through 2017 and this is his age 28 season now.  Guy has a 135 career wRC+ against RHH and a 101 wRC+ against lefties.  If the Rockies are trying to dump that contract this year or next count me in.

Matt Holliday is an even better example of this.
 
CarGo career OPS home/road .990/.765
 
Hollidays when in COL:
year home/road
2008 .997/.892
2007 1.157/.860
2006 1.132/.819

 

[bellowthecat]

Matt Holliday is an even better example of this.
 
CarGo career OPS home/road .990/.765
 
Hollidays when in COL:
year home/road
2008 .997/.892
2007 1.157/.860
2006 1.132/.819

 
Can't believe I forgot about Matt Holiday.  He is the poster boy for leaving Coors and not dropping off.  I remember when he was a free agent everyone, myself included, was leery of how he would hit, especially after the slow start he had in Oakland in his walk year.  Obviously Holliday has been a much better hitter throughout his career than CarGo, but the point is that he was pretty much the same hitter by wRC+ after he left Colorado.
 
Taking a look at CarGo's stats page now and I hadn't realized he was off to such a slow start.  BABIP and LD% way down by his standards and GB% way up.  Something to watch I suppose, but at 28 years old I'd be surprised if he just fell off like this all year.

 

[ConigsCorner]

I live in Denver, trust me, Gonazlez isn't going anywhere and neither is Tulowitzki.  Dream on.

 

[glennhoffmania]

Not a trade but a possible move that may warrant its own thread if there are further developements:
 

 
The Tigers, Yankees, Rangers, Red Sox and Rockies are believed among teams showing strong interest in free-agent closer Joel Hanrahan, who is likely to sign before holding another open showcase.
 
Hanrahan is believed to have received multiple offers, with at least those five teams thought to be in the running for the hard-throwing two-time All-Star.
 

 
Link

 

[MakMan44]

https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/461947891427602432

 

[Hee Sox Choi]

I was recently pondering that we could use Kyle Blanks instead of Mike Carp.  Carp has barely played recently, his D is terrible and I feel we could use another bat vs. Ls.  Blanks could play RF, Vic moves to CF and Gomes in LF.  Blanks was destroying AAA pitching and always seems to be hurt or not getting enough ABs when he is called up.  He seems like a good buy low candidate.  
 
Then I read this today:
 
Chris Cotillo of MLBDailyDish.com reports that Kyle Blanks "may be on the move soon."
 
Could that be us that is interested (Rotoworld said it might be the A's)?  I think the idea that Carp could be an Ortiz replacement has kind of sailed with his showing this year.  I like Blanks and think he could pound the monster vs. Ls and back-up 1b and DH when Naps or Ortiz get hurt or need a breather.  He would help this line-up much more than Carp (plus we have a similar player to Carp in Daniel Nava).  Thoughts?  

 

[Just a bit outside]

I was recently pondering that we could use Kyle Blanks instead of Mike Carp.  Carp has barely played recently, his D is terrible and I feel we could use another bat vs. Ls.  Blanks could play RF, Vic moves to CF and Gomes in LF.  Blanks was destroying AAA pitching and always seems to be hurt or not getting enough ABs when he is called up.  He seems like a good buy low candidate.  
 
Then I read this today:
 
Chris Cotillo of MLBDailyDish.com reports that Kyle Blanks "may be on the move soon."
 
Could that be us that is interested (Rotoworld said it might be the A's)?  I think the idea that Carp could be an Ortiz replacement has kind of sailed with his showing this year.  I like Blanks and think he could pound the monster vs. Ls and back-up 1b and DH when Naps or Ortiz get hurt or need a breather.  He would help this line-up much more than Carp (plus we have a similar player to Carp in Daniel Nava).  Thoughts?  

 

Blanks in right field at Fenway would be a bad idea.  That outfield would be bad defensively with Vic in center as well.

 

[soxhop411]

Rob Bradford ‏@bradfo  40s
Per source Red Sox are exploring multiple options (trades/other) regarding left side of infield

 

[radsoxfan]

 
Rob Bradford ‏@bradfo  40s
Per source Red Sox are exploring multiple options (trades/other) regarding left side of infield
 

 
I'm assuming left side of the IF = 3B.  
 
Xander has looked better at SS, so hard to believe they would move him over to 3rd now. Unless maybe they actually are considering bringing back Drew?

 

[MakMan44]

RErew. The draft is only a few weeks away. He's going to get much better offers if he just waits. I'd prefer the Sox get something done sooner than that because A) Middlebrooks should be relatively close to coming back and B)Brock Holt is likely to be exposed if he's given that much playing time. 

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

 
I'm assuming left side of the IF = 3B.  
 
Xander has looked better at SS, so hard to believe they would move him over to 3rd now. Unless maybe they actually are considering bringing back Drew?

 
Chase Headley, maybe? Although his 2014 has been pretty brutal so far. Or maybe Asdrubal Cabrera, who's actually been decent this year on a hopeless Cleveland team?

 

[geoduck no quahog]

RErew. The draft is only a few weeks away. He's going to get much better offers if he just waits. I'd prefer the Sox get something done sooner than that because A) Middlebrooks should be relatively close to coming back and B)Brock Holt is likely to be exposed if he's given that much playing time. 

 
From Tomase's article this morning:
 

Here’s a sure sign things haven’t gone according to plan — it’s mid-May, and we’re still talking about Stephen Drew...
 
... their problems will require more help than a player who hasn’t set foot on a field since the World Series.
 
But Drew would help in a number of areas. Three youngsters holding spots in the starting lineup — shortstop Xander Bogaerts, center fielder Jackie Bradley Jr., and third baseman Will Middlebrooks — have played featured roles in the team’s sub-.500 start, and a jolt of competition is in order.
 
Drew would provide it by moving Bogaerts to third, where he’d fight Middlebrooks for playing time, at least once Middlebrooks (broken finger) returns from the disabled list.
 
Drew would also help against right-handed pitching, and he’d stabilize the left side of an infield that has seen a revolving door at third base....
 

 

He goes on to allude that the players want him back, but that the bunched situation in the AL has taken the pressure off the Sox to make any moves.

 

[soxhop411]

From Red Sox Stats (I think he posts here right?)

View attachment 320

 

[bosockboy]

Headley is an ideal target. Switch hitter and can play LF in a pinch. Maybe try and get Denorfia with him.

 

[soxhop411]

Headley is an ideal target. Switch hitter and can play LF in a pinch. Maybe try and get Denorfia with him.

I would be fine with Headley also.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

I would be fine with Headley also.

I have never understood the fascination with Headley .. He's had exactly one season - in 2012 - where he played at a star level .. For the rest he's been a decent to good player .. But he's 30 now and seems to be expecting a big contract .. No thanks