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Discussion in 'Red Sox Forum' started by RedOctober3829, Dec 3, 2018.
One consolation, Trump is a MFY fan.
Not sure what Cora means by "Right Way."
I know we try to keep politics of the main board, and I know that the culture of baseball and basketball are different, but I'm much more in line with the Warriors on this than I am with the Sox. Can't blame anyone on the team to be happy to be greeted by our "first citizen" no matter what a NSFW I may personally find him. Just keep Schilling away.
Trump doesn't just have different political beliefs. Saying that normalizes a lot of his behaviors that shouldn't be normal.
That might explain his rage-tweeting after Dave Roberts pulled Rich Hill.
Well, that and the fact that Hill is white and Roberts is not.
Normally it is.
The trip to DC is more than just the White House, though that's certainly the main attraction. Teams, including the Red Sox, also go to Walter Reed.
My own view: He's president, this is tradition and the team should go -- and any player who doesn't want to go shouldn't.
These are not the people who are going to breach that wall. No meeting of athletes and DJT is going to increase understanding one iota
Great teaching opportunity. Missed.
Actually yes. To use an example, Charles Limbergh.
Just say cheese. Then go home.
I know of a couple people that criticized Tim Thomas that are now criticizing Red Sox.
Apparently when they say it's the office not the politics, they only mean it for those that disagree with them.
Unless some worry that ICE will be hanging around to make sure everyone's visa checks out.
The president has made it pretty clear that he'd prefer an America without Eduardo Rodriguez and that Sandy Leon's children shouldn't be Americans if they are born here. I would think that's an issue for them that most of us can't comprehend.
But that's their call, too. Not mine.
As is the tradition of the president throwing out the first pitch at the beginning of Washington's home season but somehow he hasn't found it within himself to uphold that tradition.
"Unfortunately, I won't be able to make it that day. I'll be home in Puerto Rico doing what I can to help the people there continue with their recovery from the devastation caused by Hurricane Maria."
Strange decision from a team that specifically cited their diversity as a strength in their championship season. I do wonder how Cora really feels about this, and why he's choosing to go given Trump's disdain and neglect for Puerto Rico since coming into office.
Why not say yes to a Mafia Don’s invitation?
I imagine Cora believes he might be able to persuade Trump to do something good for Puerto Rico. Trump’s m.o. is to do personal favors for celebrities. See: Kimye. Worth a shot. I’m not happy about it and will be pissed off if they give Trump a 45 jersey, but that’s petty compared to improving the lives of people still suffering from the hurricane in PR, even if only a little.
If that's the case I think Cora's being naive. This is a photo shoot, POTUS gives an anodyne speech for 10 mins and then everyone smiles real big type of event. If Cora really thinks he's going to bend Trump's ear to get help to Puerto Rico...well, good luck with that.
While I wish they told Trump to go shit in a hat, this doesn't bother me too much because the team is so diverse and Cora's the leader.
I worry about being too views and newsy here but if I may:
I'm deeply involved in Democratic Politics in the suburbs of Philadelphia. I've hosted events for our congresswoman (when she was a candidate), multiple state reps, and a state Senator in my home. I had the mayor of Philly over a few months ago during the primary (his preferred candidate lost)
I could opine about the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania avenue but it wouldn't be fit for the main board.
All that said, the President wears many hats in their role. Among them is cheer-leader-in-chief. The President, regardless of party, regardless of policy position, etc. is supposed to help unify Americans by celebrating things that highlight American excellence. It's why we have the Presidential Medal of Freedom, it's why we have sports teams completing photoshoots with the President. Major League baseball is the premier baseball league in the world. It is the place people all over the world dream to play in.
I can appreciate why some would not like the idea of the team visiting the current occupant and taking the position that he doesn't care about our norms, so why should we give him a day in front of the cameras with a big ol' 45 jersey, but in the end, I'd argue it's not about Trump, nor is it about politics.
The fact that Trump is such an abject failure in the other non-official roles of the job, healer-in-chief, promoter of Democracy, etc, doesn't mean we should abandon celebrating baseball and our institutions.
I mean to be fair you’re essentially undercutting everything they’ve done as an organization to promote diversity since Henry bought the team. You’re going for a photo op with the most racist homophobic president of this era. I know on a team there’s going to be 25 players with 25 different view points and that’s okay. But the overall optics of the Boston Red Sox supporting 45’s agenda by going is sad. It’s not unexpected. But if they listened to the fan base that bought tickets and buy those first to 100 t-shirts then the outcome would have been a lot different.
Also the fact the Orange asshat is going to have a 45 jersey of his own disgusts me. Pedro is 100 times the man he will ever be.
I just pray that Mueller does his job quickly so they can get rid of 45 and his VP. I’d be more than happy to see a 46 Pelosi Jersey!
Also, how do we know Trump will even be making more than a few passing statements acknowledging the Sox? It is always about himself. If there happens to be a leak out of the Mueller investigation (god forbid we still don't have closure as the months drag on), or someone or other happens to throw a perceived criticism at Trump that particular morning, it will basically be his typical "scorned man" press conference with an oh yeah, good job Red Sox thrown in. Seems high risk, in that your organization will be standing behind Trump when he could be making some hateful comments regarding the news of the day or bringing politics or his sports biases in. Not in the playful way that Obama, GWB etc. could, more like saying well the Yankees couldn't beat you guys then going on a 5-minute tirade against Cashman.
I think most sentient people know that going to this photo op ceremony is not "supporting his agenda" except to people who think the Earth is flat. (That said, there are likely players that *do* support his agenda; and likely those who dont). Staying away is a statement. Going is not.
Do we know he's getting a 45 jersey?
Given that the Sox ownership has taken steps to distance themselves from a terrible past legacy of racism from Tom Yawkey's tenure, including getting rid of the Yawkey Way name, going to the WH seems bafflingly inept of them since Trump's main agenda these days is painting brown people as evil.
I get what you're saying. OTOH -- "No, we're all going to the Elks Club after practice, what are you going to do about it" might have had some positive effect.
As I said, I don't think anyone who matters will actually see this as a vote for Trump's policies. And, in a sense, the team's going robs him of the chance to turn it into another day of dog-whistling. He probably *wants* the team from Elizabeth Warren's backyard to stay home. Maybe they'll let Cora give a team "thank you." Maybe he'll do it in Spanish.
They should bring Bill Mueller along. That’d spook him!
I trust Cora when he says he will use the platform in the right way.
I really don't know what the hell some of you expected. But if you expected anything other than this, you probably should take a break from the news in general because it's rotted your brain. You're obsessed. I hate Trump as much as the next guy, but The Boston goddamn Red Sox aren't going to make some huge political gesture here. The winning team gets a trip to the White House, which has more than just Trump in it, and means more than just the Trump administration. It's just a dumb tradition and I'm sure whoever doesn't feel comfortable going has every right to stay home.
I love this. That is all.
All this talk of giving the President a jersey, I mean, I understand the debate but...does it mean nothing that number 45 is retired? I did a quick search and couldn't find a picture of Clinton with a number 42 baseball jersey (another obviously retired number).
Some interesting tidbits on the post-championship White House visit tradition here from Uni Watch.
At least show some class like the Warriors did. They came out and said as a team they would not accept the invitation. Not listen to dumb rednecks like Hembree who is barely going to make the 25 man. I mean to each their own but why should any team go for a photo op that’s designed to give positive press to the most oppressive president in recent history. If Cora thinks he’s actually going to care about Puerto Rico he’s naive. Trump probably thought it was a foreign country.
The Philadelphia Eagles essentially told Trump to get stuffed. That's what I would have liked to see here.
Me, I’m hoping they forgo the jersey and give him a “Damage Done” t-shirt, size XXXXL.
Hey, I hate Trump as much as anyone, but I still believe in the institution and (quixotically) hold out hope for a return to civility some day. They should go. I have confidence Cora will express his point of view, respectfully and in context.
Players also should feel free to take a pass, of course, but I wouldn’t look down on anybody that goes. This could have a substantial impact on future earnings, because MLB.
Edit: one more thought...if I had to bet on anybody taking a pass on the trip, it’d be Werner.
Maybe Cora wants and opportunity to whisper "fuck you" right in Trump's ear, though. It's not up to the organization to tell people they can't go. It's an opportunity that they've earned and they shouldn't be suppressed from being able to just because Trump sucks. That should be 100% up to the individual.
If the Red Sox took a unilateral political stance it could split the team and the fanbase into factions and cause all kinds of headaches. I can't see anyone rationally concluding it'd be best to not show as an organization. Honestly, it shouldn't even come up. They're not in the business of making political moves. They're in the business of making great, likeable, national baseball teams that win championships.
It's not a mark against the Sox. They're not here to start the revolution.
I'm sure you're right. Henry took one look at drunk Hembree video and said, "boys, we're going."
People with the immature martyr-sensibilities of Trump *want* them not to go. Calling his bluff is just as reasoanble as feeding his narrative about how the non-white and non-Americans should be grateful to be playing sports, as thought they inherited their positions (Marc Sulivan notwithstanding).
"caring about Puerto Rico" is another strawman you built, right next to "OHMYGODS they're going to give him 45." You dont know that. Cora's not an idiot. He knows he's not going to affect policy. He's handled everything else pretty well. Lets see what he does here.
Fair enough, I guess, that another big team did it. But, I'm curious now what affect that had and whether or not the Sox learned anything from that experience.
I’m glad they are going and hope that every player attends. I’d think that regardless of the identity of the President. To me, it’s another part of the victory tour for this incredible team.
I also don’t give two shits about the political views, ice cream preferences, sexual orientations, musical choices or any other personal choice made by any of the folks who entertain me, be they athletes, musicians or actors, or a member of another category.
That’s not to say I’m a “shut up and play” guy. Say what you want. I’m just not affected by Mookie Betts or Bob Weir or any other star’s views on really anything other than their individual area of greatness.
I’ll enjoy the ceremony for what it is: one more chance to honor a team that richly deserves every bit of it.
The Yankees gave him #98 in 1998.
Obama got a #27 jersey in 2009 instead of Reggie Jackson's retired #44. There's absolutely no reason it'd have to be #45.
Good points. I hope and pray it’s a Jersey with 666 or a middle finger on the back of it. But this is still a truly awful idea to go.
You don't deal with children by acting like more of one.
I hope and pray that in giving him the shirt, Cora gets to say, loud enough for all to hear.... "As an American, I am proud to come to the White House." First in Spanish. Then in English.
So 18 would be the obvious number. I assume Mitch Moreland, Shane Victorino, DiceK, Damon and Carlos Quintana will get over it.
I'm both fine with the team going, and those that decide not to go. The Sox going to the White House does not represent an endorsement of Trump or his policies.
Thank you for this. Give the President an 18 jersey and this is a non-story — all due respect to Moreland, Victorino, DiceK, Johnny Damon, Tomo Ohka, Midre Cummings, and Reggie Jefferson.
45 is sacrosanct.
Ted Cox 4 President.
Edit: Beaten by Squints!
Or avoid all controversy by giving him one that says "2018," the bigliest number ever on a Sox jersey, and no respects to others needed.
Why would we want them to skip an opportunity to remind such a hateable MFY fan what they did to the team he roots for?
It IS an honor to go to the White House, just not the circus act currently accompanying it.
So the Red Sox could give him a jersey with Moreland’s #18? Better than #45, I guess. “0” would be even better... or “00” if for some reason they don’t want to diss Brandon Phillips. Can jerseys have negative numbers? Too bad “20-to-life” won’t fit.
Pinstripes. The horizontal kind.
Give him a number 4 jersey. It's probably the most fitting.
I've got my hands full with my ten-year old, but Googling "MLB politics" will get you started on your education.