Hitters swing paths now seem able to launch low sinkers at a more optimum angle more often than high fast balls. In the latter case the uppercut swing results in FB with too high an angle to get distance or just a whiffWith the launch angle "revolution" swing.... one would think that a heavy sinker would be something most pitchers would be jumping on and pitching coaches would really emphasize and look to develop.
Also.... shit... if Rick can look like his 2016 version of Rick... we get a fully healthy vintage Price and something even close to last years versions of Sale and Pomeranz and it won't matter who the hell is in the 5 slot!
.... I still think EdRo will turn into maybe not quite an ace, but a guy who would be a "no. 2" on most other clubs. We've seen what he can do when he's healthy and... not tipping pitches.
If you were intending to be humorous, you succeeded. I literally laughed out loud when I read this. I thank you for that.Any chance we can get in on Cobb, Lynn or Arrieta for 8 million AAV?
If you were intending to be humorous, you succeeded. I literally laughed out loud when I read this. I thank you for that.
If you were being completely serious, in the hypothetical event that their rates were to drop to this level, there would be many other teams vying for their services.
It was actually a tricep tightness and had adverse effects on his performance for the first 2 months (first 8 starts less than 5 IP per start and 4.97 ERA because it impacted his pitch selection) .He left a spring training start last year for the exact same reason. Guessing he'll be fine with rest.
If you were intending to be humorous, you succeeded. I literally laughed out loud when I read this. I thank you for that.
If you were being completely serious, in the hypothetical event that their rates were to drop to this level, there would be many other teams vying for their services.
Some further info from the link below:From the Globe:
The lefthander said he came out for “precautionary reasons” and that his level of concern was “very low.”
They do and don’t. ERod is not back yet and coming off surgery. Wright is not back yet and coming off serious surgery. Those two can’t be counted on until they get completely through rehab and are simply pitching again and not rehabbing. Johnson was both very good and very bad in his limited time up last year. Velasquez showed some great and some not so great in a very limited role as a spot starter.Sounds like a big relief for him and the team. Here’s hoping it really is nothing.
Still, back to the topic of this thread, today made me realize that between ERod, Johnson, Wright, and Velasquez they’ve actually got decent starting depth.
We might be able to frontload a one year Arrieta deal with opt outs after each start.Any chance we can get in on Cobb, Lynn or Arrieta for 8 million AAV?
There is such potential in this concept for a film or short story lampooning present day baseball. Imagine the Red Sox sign someone to a contract like this. That players puts out a CYA caliber season, leading the team to a division title and heading into the postseason as slight favorites to win it all. Then the pitcher opts out after his last start, suddenly holding the team's playoff ambitions hostage. The media reaction alone might be worth the agony.We might be able to frontload a one year Arrieta deal with opt outs after each start.
While opt outs generally benefit the team (as has been well documented on this board), the bolded is a clear exception to the general rule.There is such potential in this concept for a film or short story lampooning present day baseball. Imagine the Red Sox sign someone to a contract like this. That players puts out a CYA caliber season, leading the team to a division title and heading into the postseason as slight favorites to win it all. Then the pitcher opts out after his last start, suddenly holding the team's playoff ambitions hostage. The media reaction alone might be worth the agony.
Perhaps if the chicken and beer perks were to his liking, he could be cajoled.Lackey had a strong second half of the season last year, if we are the only ones offering him a spot, would he still refuse to play here?
So does that translate to signing Cobb, Lynn, Arrieta, or Lackey?Via various Sox journalists on twitter, a "mild flexor strain" is the diagnosis for Pomeranz.
If he came begging for a spot, would DD offer him a contract? I highly doubt the Sox want any part of him.Lackey had a strong second half of the season last year, if we are the only ones offering him a spot, would he still refuse to play here?
I'd like to know where and when this was established. I thought it had been unequivocally established that opt outs were ALWAYS bad for the team and that exceptions were impossible...While opt outs generally benefit the team (as has been well documented on this board), the bolded is a clear exception to the general rule.
Why? DD wasn't here when Lackey was. There'd be no reason for acrimony between them. The only knock against Lackey is that he allegedly was grousing about having to play out that team option here. His teammates liked him well enough (the few that remain probably wouldn't raise a stink).If he came begging for a spot, would DD offer him a contract? I highly doubt the Sox want any part of him.
Therein lies the true beauty of SoSH, as this was also unequivocally established.I thought it had been unequivocally established that opt outs were ALWAYS bad for the team and that exceptions were impossible...
If you are cojoling someone, using Coq aux vin and a nice chablis.Perhaps if the chicken and beer perks were to his liking, he could be cajoled.
I am not 100% certain, but I believe O'B and Lyons yesterday mentioned how good Thornburg looked on the mound. He may have pitched in a minor league game in the last couple of days.Thornburg still hasn't pitched. I don't know how many innings he needs but would assume at least 5. Even if he gets in a game in the next week or so - which is doubtful, I'm not sure he'll be on the roster to start the season since he'll probably need a few days off in between appearances. They really don't need to rush him since the depth is pretty good.
They probably meant doing a bullpen session.I am not 100% certain, but I believe O'B and Lyons yesterday mentioned how good Thornburg looked on the mound. He may have pitched in a minor league game in the last couple of days.
Am I the only one with the feeling that statistics won't matter here? Lackey ain't coming back, and it doesn't have a lot to do with what good he could do on the mound, and all to do with what bad he could do off it.Lackey pitched well the second half of last season and is a reliable innings eater at the end of the rotation for a team that has World Series aspirations.
I cant even imagine how hard for me it would be with Price and Lackey on the same team. My 2 least favorite players ever.Am I the only one with the feeling that statistics won't matter here? Lackey ain't coming back, and it doesn't have a lot to do with what good he could do on the mound, and all to do with what bad he could do off it.
Pomeranz would likely (and rightly so) demand a trade if they demoted him to the pen the year before he hits free agency for nothing to do with performance issues.I'd like to sign another starter to put Pomeranz in the pen and perhaps reduce the wear and tear on his elbow. Rotation is way too left handed in a division dominated by RH sluggers
Its really going to depend on how much the price drops on Lynn, Cobb or Arrieta. At some price you just have to go for it. Too many guys in that rotation with red flags and I am not as impressed with the depth as some are
You want to take a guy who made 30+ starts (for the second straight season), went 17-6 with a 3.32 ERA and a 9+ K/9, and put him in the pen? He’s been worth 4 bWAR two years in a row now. That seems crazy to me. Especially when some those RH sluggers do worse against LHP in their career (ie. Judge, Sanchez, Jones) or have negligible platoon splits (ie Machado, Morales). Pomeranz has the potential to be battling Price for the #2 slot all season, and absolutely deserves a shot to do so.I'd like to sign another starter to put Pomeranz in the pen and perhaps reduce the wear and tear on his elbow. Rotation is way too left handed in a division dominated by RH sluggers
Its really going to depend on how much the price drops on Lynn, Cobb or Arrieta. At some price you just have to go for it. Too many guys in that rotation with red flags and I am not as impressed with the depth as some are
I disagree with putting Pom in the bullpen but I agree the depth isn’t as good as I’d like. If anything, I’d like to see the Sox acquire a swingman that could spot start and provide multiple innings out of the bullpen.I'd like to sign another starter to put Pomeranz in the pen and perhaps reduce the wear and tear on his elbow. Rotation is way too left handed in a division dominated by RH sluggers
Its really going to depend on how much the price drops on Lynn, Cobb or Arrieta. At some price you just have to go for it. Too many guys in that rotation with red flags and I am not as impressed with the depth as some are
But Price and Lackey make it tough for him and we shouldn't push our luck giving Pomeranz another chance to be a 4-win pitcher.You want to take a guy who made 30+ starts (for the second straight season), went 17-6 with a 3.32 ERA and a 9+ K/9, and put him in the pen? He’s been worth 4 bWAR two years in a row now. That seems crazy to me. Especially when some those RH sluggers do worse against LHP in their career (ie. Judge, Sanchez, Jones) or have negligible platoon splits (ie Machado, Morales). Pomeranz has the potential to be battling Price for the #2 slot all season, and absolutely deserves a shot to do so.
Brandon McCarthy still seems like the ideal guy for this. The Braves have no use for him and he’s hard to count on for a full season, but he can start and posts elite numbers first time through the order.I disagree with putting Pom in the bullpen but I agree the depth isn’t as good as I’d like. If anything, I’d like to see the Sox acquire a swingman that could spot start and provide multiple innings out of the bullpen.
It may be? I don't want to be pessimistic or chicken littlish, but Price, Pom and Rodriguez aren't out of the woods. Velazquez doesn't really have strikeout stuff, Wright may be the most volatile starter in baseball and still hasn't thrown a pitch, and Beeks gave up six runs to the Twins this afternoon without recording an out. A worst-case scenario rotation of Sale/Porcello/Velazquez/Johnson/Haley would be extremely bad.Is our depth actually that bad? I see Sale, Price, Pomeranz, Porcello, Rodriguez, Wright, Velazquez, Johnson, Beeks — 9 deep in pitchers I wouldn't mind seeing on the mound. Then there's a whole group of interesting pitchers in AA like Shawaryn, Raudes, and Jimenez, any of whom could take a step forward and augment the back of the depth picture by mid-season.
I think LAD's as good as ours but at least as precarious. The Cubs have less injury risk 1-5 and a terrific #6 in Mike Montgomery, and the Astros' depth is unbelievable.One way to evaluate this question is to think about which teams have *better* rotation depth than we do. Just eyeballing the contenders: LAD doesn't. The Cubs don't. I don't think Houston does. The Yankees and the Tribe probably do, and the Nationals almost certainly do. So unscientifically, I would judge that we're in the middle of the pack for rotation depth among teams with credible WS aspirations. A lot of these teams get to a Beeks-type unproven pitcher before the 9th spot on their depth chart.
The A's did a good job rebuilding/-hyping Sonny Gray into trade bait, and I expect they'll do that with Manaea after his down year and wait. But there aren't a ton of these guys, and their trade value is hard to gauge. I think Swihart wouldn't net Manaea, but Odorizzi, who has the same number of years of team control, fetched next to nothing.Now Rodriguez and Wright aren't quite back yet, and Price and Pomeranz have elbow concerns of varying severity. So there's a real possibility that multiple simultaneous injuries could have us leaning harder on guys like Velazquez or Johnson than we want to. But Sale and Porcello are both good bets to throw a lot of innings, as good bets as starting pitchers ever are. If anything we need another starter in AAA to fortify the 6-8 spots on that depth chart, not FA types. I don't anticipate Lackey taking a minor league deal, so if trading Swihart could get me an okay MLB-ready starter with 2-3 options left — Manaea is probably a reach, but someone like that — I do that deal.
Yes, our starting depth is that bad.Is our depth actually that bad? I see Sale, Price, Pomeranz, Porcello, Rodriguez, Wright, Velazquez, Johnson, Beeks — 9 deep in pitchers I wouldn't mind seeing on the mound. Then there's a whole group of interesting pitchers in AA like Shawaryn, Raudes, and Jimenez, any of whom could take a step forward and augment the back of the depth picture by mid-season.
One way to evaluate this question is to think about which teams have *better* rotation depth than we do. Just eyeballing the contenders: LAD doesn't. The Cubs don't. I don't think Houston does. The Yankees and the Tribe probably do, and the Nationals almost certainly do. So unscientifically, I would judge that we're in the middle of the pack for rotation depth among teams with credible WS aspirations. A lot of these teams get to a Beeks-type unproven pitcher before the 9th spot on their depth chart.
Now Rodriguez and Wright aren't quite back yet, and Price and Pomeranz have elbow concerns of varying severity. So there's a real possibility that multiple simultaneous injuries could have us leaning harder on guys like Velazquez or Johnson than we want to. But Sale and Porcello are both good bets to throw a lot of innings, as good bets as starting pitchers ever are. If anything we need another starter in AAA to fortify the 6-8 spots on that depth chart, not FA types. I don't anticipate Lackey taking a minor league deal, so if trading Swihart could get me an okay MLB-ready starter with 2-3 options left — Manaea is probably a reach, but someone like that — I do that deal.
Okay, so your choices are a) to sign someone to a mL deal, b) lose Wright to waivers, or c) option Rodriguez.Yes, our starting depth is that bad.
3 out of our possible top 6 starters could start the year on the DL. 2 out of our top 4 starters have elbow issues.
Sure if everyone is 100% we do have near the top of the league in starting pitching depth. But at this point I’d rather address it with $ than with prospects and money at the deadline. This team has a chance at a championship let’s not blow it over $6 million.
FWIW, Lance Lynn just signed a 1-year deal with the Twins for $12M (link below).At this point, how crazy would it be to see if Jake Arrieta would take a 1-year deal?
This being where the rotation ends up would require a level of bad injury luck that would sink every rotation in the majors. If this is how we are defining depth then we have reduced the term to the point where it has no functional meaning anymore.A worst-case scenario rotation of Sale/Porcello/Velazquez/Johnson/Haley would be extremely bad.
I think DDski is done for the spring, unless Sanchez becomes available on a MiLB deal or DFA.I think the only way they add payroll is to add a true difference maker. They have $7 million to play with according to the projected CBT payroll on Cots' Tax Tracker. If a player like a Jake Arrieta is willing to take a short-term deal it's a win-win situation. The player gets to get back on the market soon and the team gets a stud pitcher to add to a Sale-Price led rotation. If they've spent what they've spent, why hold back now? This is a chance to take advantage of the market and put themselves closer to matching the strength of Houston's rotation and also adding another quality RHP to go against the RHH power of the Yankees.
Quick question, if he's on an mL deal, how do LeVangie and Leon(?) "tweak" him? The team has already made its first wave of cuts to the roster, sending guys to the minor league camp. At this point, I would think the major league coaches (and catchers) are focusing on the major league players and the minor league coaches are focusing on the minor league players.I wouldn’t be excited about it, but I could see Anibal Sanchez brought in on a mL deal to see if Leon and LeVangie could tweak him.
He looks mostly done, but his K/BB is still solid (3.59:1 — between Darvish and Cole) and he might benefit from a pitch mix overhaul.
Maybe Bannister, I should have said. They seemed to be up to the task with Fister midseason last year.Quick question, if he's on an mL deal, how do LeVangie and Leon(?) "tweak" him? The team has already made its first wave of cuts to the roster, sending guys to the minor league camp. At this point, I would think the major league coaches (and catchers) are focusing on the major league players and the minor league coaches are focusing on the minor league players.
If Sanchez will sign a mL deal and toil for Pawtucket for a month or two as more veteran injury insurance than guys like Beeks and Velezquez provide, bring him on. But I very much doubt they'd sign him because they think they can magically fix him in that time.