Manchester United 2014-2015: Van Gaal's Insane Speech at the end of the awards

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I thought United looked pretty good through 60 minutes. The collapse was shocking but the attack and midfield is clearly better than in the past. It should be given the gazillion dollars spent. Di Maria in particular is such a great player.

LVG made some very odd decisions. There didn't seem to be any tactical adjustment after going 3-1 up or after the penalty goal at 3-2. Then he takes off Falcao but stays with RVP, who was much worse all day? Then he puts on Mata for Di Maria? Mata on the side of the diamond is a terrible fit, and the fourth goal came directly from him getting caught on possession.

 

[Zomp]

Yeah for 60 minutes they were very good.  They scored 3 really nice goals.  The penalty decision seemed to rattle them.  No excuse, I mean you're up 3-1 you need to finish it off.
 
 
We'll see what happens next game, but my fear is that RVP is LVG's binky when he is clearly out of form.  When on he is a terrific player but I agree with you that the swap should have been Mata for RVP with Rooney pushing up.  I think the attack is too talented to be kept down.  Rooney was very good in the trequartista role today and Di Maria and Herrera played well again (both had awesome goals).  The backline is just so fragile right now.  Even on its best day it will be the weak link of the team (then again with an attack like that I guess any defensive line would) but from what I've seen I think our best back 4 would be Rafael---Jones---Rojo----Shaw.  Shaw should be able to start next week.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Yeah for 60 minutes they were very good.  They scored 3 really nice goals.  The penalty decision seemed to rattle them.  No excuse, I mean you're up 3-1 you need to finish it off.
 
 
We'll see what happens next game, but my fear is that RVP is LVG's binky when he is clearly out of form.  When on he is a terrific player but I agree with you that the swap should have been Mata for RVP with Rooney pushing up.  I think the attack is too talented to be kept down.  Rooney was very good in the trequartista role today and Di Maria and Herrera played well again (both had awesome goals).  The backline is just so fragile right now.  Even on its best day it will be the weak link of the team (then again with an attack like that I guess any defensive line would) but from what I've seen I think our best back 4 would be Rafael---Jones---Rojo----Shaw.  Shaw should be able to start next week.

This seems like a fair assessment. It may also be that the formation is accentuating both the strengths and weaknesses of the team. The attack and midfield look so much better under the diamond than under the 3-5-2 and I'd be hesitant to abandon the formation for that reason. On the other hand, this formation really puts the defense under a ton of pressure. The fullbacks have to provide the attacking width so they often are caught way up the field. This seemed key to both the fourth (when Rojo played an awful pass to Mata and then allowed Leicester to break right behind him) and fifth goals (when Rojo was nowhere I could see and Blackett was on an island on the wing against Vardy to deal with that high clearance). Additionally, there is only one holding midfielder to make recovery runs when the center backs are in trouble. I'm sure there are personnel issues here too - Shaw for Rojo has to be an improvement for example. But I think there are some yin/yang things going on too where the formation is being chosen to get the best out of the attacking talent but there are natural downsides to that as well.

 

[Zomp]

2 wins gutted out since last posting.  Today's was thanks to David De Gea, who made a penalty save then 2 incredible saves in extra time to keep the one goal lead.
 
Good to see Falcao get off the mark.  Gotta be honest apart from highlights I've only seen a few matches of his before his transfer, and I'm surprised at how good he is at things besides scoring.  When he came in I think everyone expected a poacher like Van Nistelrooy but he holds the ball up incredibly for a striker of his size and his passing is surprisingly good.

 

[Stanley Steamer]

More importantly for Man U and the league as a whole, despite their early season stutters, they now sit in 4th. (Can we just call 4th "Wengerplatz" from now on?) I was guilty of thinking they wouldn't compete again this year. Looking at their squad and schedule, I now rate them above Liverpool and Everton, maybe Arsenal too. If their defense gels, they could go on quite a roll.
Their games against Chelsea and City will be vital.

 

[Dummy Hoy]

United's toughest game this year has been at home to a decimated and tired Everton side, and As Zomp mentioned it took a superhuman effort from De Gea to get that result.

If Man U is in fourth or higher by January, I'll apologize, but I just don't see it. Injuries and a lack of quality on the back end will get them sliced apart against quality sides. I am curious to see how the next three games go; as much of a talent as Wazza still is, they may have a lineup that fits better without him.

 

[Stanley Steamer]

United's toughest game this year has been at home to a decimated and tired Everton side, and As Zomp mentioned it took a superhuman effort from De Gea to get that result.
If Man U is in fourth or higher by January, I'll apologize, but I just don't see it. Injuries and a lack of quality on the back end will get them sliced apart against quality sides. I am curious to see how the next three games go; as much of a talent as Wazza still is, they may have a lineup that fits better without him.

Good points, and I hope you're right. It's my nature to fear the worst.

 

[Zomp]

United's toughest game this year has been at home to a decimated and tired Everton side, and As Zomp mentioned it took a superhuman effort from De Gea to get that result.

If Man U is in fourth or higher by January, I'll apologize, but I just don't see it. Injuries and a lack of quality on the back end will get them sliced apart against quality sides. I am curious to see how the next three games go; as much of a talent as Wazza still is, they may have a lineup that fits better without him.

 
You're assuming they won't improve though...I think they will.  Don't forget, the starting 11 now has 5 new signings in it.  My biggest concern is Carrick's health, as against teams like City and Chelsea they'll drop a striker and play a 4-3-3 with Carrick, Blind, and one of Rooney/Mata in the midfield with Herrera and Di Maria wide.
 
Did you watch today's match?  Besides the assist I don't think Mata did anything noteworthy.  He's a silky player and one that I like very much, but the biggest difference between he and Rooney is Rooney can take a game over and put in a tireless shift when needed while I don't think Mata is capable.

 

[soxfan121]

(Can we just call 4th "Wengerplatz" from now on?) 

 
Seconded.

 

[Dummy Hoy]

 
You're assuming they won't improve though...I think they will.  Don't forget, the starting 11 now has 5 new signings in it.  My biggest concern is Carrick's health, as against teams like City and Chelsea they'll drop a striker and play a 4-3-3 with Carrick, Blind, and one of Rooney/Mata in the midfield with Herrera and Di Maria wide.
 
Did you watch today's match?  Besides the assist I don't think Mata did anything noteworthy.  He's a silky player and one that I like very much, but the biggest difference between he and Rooney is Rooney can take a game over and put in a tireless shift when needed while I don't think Mata is capable.

 
This is a good point, although you have always had a pretty rosy outlook for your squads (and why not, never seen anything but success). I guess the counter argument that everyone else could improve too is dampened by the fact that not everyone has the talent that United does. 
 
As good as they've looked going forward at times, ManU has looked disorganized, unsure, and timid at other times this season...maybe it's not that bad, but just looks bad in contrast to how composed and in control they always seemed under Fergie. 
 
Like I said, I'll come apologize if I'm wrong, but I'm just not buying in right now.

 

[Zomp]

Well not only talent, but the integration of 6 (I said 5 earlier) new faces (Shaw, Rojo, Blind, Di Maria, Herrera, Falcao) in a starting 11 is a lot to take on for any team, especially one with United's expectations.  They have a new manager and over half of their strongest 11 is new.  I expect them to struggle after the West Brom game, when they play Chelsea, City, and Arsenal in 3 out of their next 4 matches but they should still be able to take maximum points off of most teams.  Top 4 is the goal this year and I think a big reason (besides the results of last season) was because of all of the new faces coming in.
 
Chelsea signed Costa and Fabregas but they are playing a similar style to last year, just with better players.  Costa is a huge upgrade from whatever over the hill striker they had line up last year.
 
I think Liverpool is going through the same thing right now with all of their signings (and injuries) but I don't think its unfair to say their signings were up to par talent wise with United.  Its tough to change so many players and click right away.  With this being the most competitive era in the BPL's history, its a tough hill to climb.

 

[Dummy Hoy]

Well not only talent, but the integration of 6 (I said 5 earlier) new faces (Shaw, Rojo, Blind, Di Maria, Herrera, Falcao) in a starting 11 is a lot to take on for any team, especially one with United's expectations.  They have a new manager and over half of their strongest 11 is new.  I expect them to struggle after the West Brom game, when they play Chelsea, City, and Arsenal in 3 out of their next 4 matches but they should still be able to take maximum points off of most teams.  Top 4 is the goal this year and I think a big reason (besides the results of last season) was because of all of the new faces coming in.
 
Chelsea signed Costa and Fabregas but they are playing a similar style to last year, just with better players.  Costa is a huge upgrade from whatever over the hill striker they had line up last year.
 
I think Liverpool is going through the same thing right now with all of their signings (and injuries) but I don't think its unfair to say their signings were up to par talent wise with United.  Its tough to change so many players and click right away.  With this being the most competitive era in the BPL's history, its a tough hill to climb.

 
Chelsea is a different animal...I think Liverpool is a good comp. And I didn't think either would be top four before the season.
 
And you're absolutely correct, this is a tough of a league top to almost bottom (QPR is wretched) as there's been since the formation. 

 

[Zomp]

Sorry, meant to say weren't up to par.

 

[Zomp]

I felt a draw was deserved today and was pleased to see United hang with probably the best team in the country.  More importantly (for the rest of the season) Fellaini finally showed up in a big game and asserted himself the way he did during his time at Everton.  He wasn't the furthest midfielder back, but he wasn't in the 10 role either.  Playing just ahead of Blind he did an excellent job battling with Matic and Fabregas, winning back possession and being a good outlet for the defenders to look to.
 
Di Maria was very quiet (I wonder if his thigh injury was bothering him) and apart from the goal Van Persie was also off but the goal means he'll probably start again vs City next week.

 

[Bailey10]

I thought Di Maria and Van Persie were both very poor today before both contributing to the goal in stoppage time.
 
Di Maria was constantly trying to take on 2 defenders and giving away the ball to Chelsea on the counter, while RVP is obviously not the elite poacher he once was. Every time he gets the ball its a turn and wildly shoot or some one-touch layoff. 
 
I'm happy with the result but am really looking forward to seeing how this team looks with Rooney and Falcao starting together up top. 

 

[fletcherpost]

I swear I am starting to get a bit of de gay for de Gea. He's so svelte and i love his grimace...one of the best I've seen in one so young. But Jeezo, the boy can stop a shot with any part of his body and he just gets up like it's nothing. And the fact he stuck it out when things didn't start off too well. Myt love fro him is equal to my hatred of all the other players (barring bowell boy Fletcher and Roonster).

 

[Zomp]

I'm still pissed off, and amazed, that a player who starts in the best league in the world for one of the biggest clubs in the world can get himself sent off for two stupid cards.  The first one was absolutely idiotic...what purpose does it serve?  If I was Van Gaal I'd place Smalling in the reserves for a month.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

 

 
I think there are many reasons to believe in LVG much more than in Moyes (and the article that discussed these graphics generally agrees).  But I'm  surprised by many of these statistics, especially the possession and shots figures, as it has seemed to me like LVG has gotten United playing more dangerously and less predictably with the ball and he's obviously had much better players to work with in the midfield and attack.  Maybe that more fluid play just hasn't translated into a statistical leap forward yet.

 

[Zomp]

Besides his track record, its also in the way the team has played.  There is creativity and drive, something that was sorely missing from Moyes' United.  I think another thing that hasn't helped United is the change of formations a few times.  By my count they've played a 3-5-2. a 4-4-2 diamond, and a 4-3-3.  3 formations in 10 games is not going to get you consistent results.  The statistics, of course, prove that there are reasons to worry but my eyes tell me differently when I watch the team play.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Besides his track record, its also in the way the team has played.  There is creativity and drive, something that was sorely missing from Moyes' United.  I think another thing that hasn't helped United is the change of formations a few times.  By my count they've played a 3-5-2. a 4-4-2 diamond, and a 4-3-3.  3 formations in 10 games is not going to get you consistent results.  The statistics, of course, prove that there are reasons to worry but my eyes tell me differently when I watch the team play.

 
I haven't watched nearly as many games as you but that's what my eyes have seen too.  The team looked so ponderous and predictable under Moyes and has seemed more dynamic and threatening under LVG, especially when Di Maria plays in the middle.   That's why the statistics are kind of surprising and eye-opening to me.  I don't know whether that shows the limitations of the stats or of my eyes, but something isn't really matching up.

 

[bosox4283]

These statistics are so similar I'm not sure you can draw any conclusions. The only area where there is a noticeable difference is tackles: 17 more under Van Gaal, but this increase comes with 12 more fouls. So, Van Gaal's squad is perhaps more aggressive, as you indicate, but it does not appear like this aggressiveness is leading to any better or different results.

 

[soxfan121]

If those numbers are not drastically different after 30 games, I'll be shocked. At LVG has "up" to go. It was nothing but down for Moyes.

 

[Zomp]

United eek out a 1-0 win over Palace.  Juan Mata came on in the 60th and scored the only goal of the game.  Hopefully these 2 weeks off will give the defense and Falcao time to heal.  I'd be interested to see if LVG replaces RVP with Falcoa given RVP isn't playing very well but he has no choice but to play him right now.
 
Over the past three games there have been some positives and negatives.  Luke Shaw has had 3 excellent games in a row.  Its hard to believe his age given how composed he is on the ball and defending.  On the flip side, Adnan Januzaj's decision making has regressed and I'm not sure he should be playing with the first team right now.
 
Fellaini has actually played very well the past few games but I'd still prefer Ander Herrera in the starting 11.  He offers a little more pace, creativity, and actually has a surprising bite about him in midfield.  If everyone is fit, against Arsenal I'd prefer to see our front 6 look like this:
 
-------------Blind-----------
----Herrera-------Di Maria---
-------------Rooney--------
-----RVP-------------Falcao
 
 
Or have Mata in for Rooney and Rooney in for RVP.

 

[Schnerres]

I would not draw too many conclusions from these stats.
Van Gaal is changing his tactics for each match, if he wants to. He did that regularly with the Netherlands and as you wrote (i didn´t see any match!), he did that with ManU, too. Of course, you can point to this fact and say that changes in tactical approaches (i think he would even play 3-5-2 in one, 4-3-3 the next and 4-4-2 in the third match and then go back to 3-5-2) won´t bring you great results. But i mean those guys are professionals and probably van Gaal knows that they won´t win the league title this season and if he wants to try something, (=if the club ever forgives him a 6th place finish, ) then it´s now to try new things and see who is able to perform in different tactical schemes, who is a flexible player and useful in the long run.
 
And like seen @the WC, if van Gaal thinks, there´s a team that´s dominating his teams midfield, he would play a 5-3-2 with 3 CBs and 2 wingers (WC semifinal vs Argentina, 5-3-2, right winger/RB was Dirk Kuyt!) and then you have little possession and play fast forward and run counter after counter when you get the ball (RB+LB go forward+ one central midfielder could go forward, too, so you have a 3-5-2 or 3-4-3).

 

[Zomp]

So Michael Carrick leaves the England camp with a groin problem and reports are that Daily Blind could be out until after Christmas with knee ligament issues.  DDG dislocated a finger during Spain training, and Jonny Evans and Phil Jones will not be back for the Arsenal clash.

 

[Bailey10]

I don't want to think about where United would be in the table right now without David De Gea.
 
Pay This Man His Money. 

 

[soxfan121]

Holy crap. ManU just looked like a rec league team after van Gaal made a WEIRD substitution that changed the formation but didn't communicate it to most of the players on the pitch. Carrick literally ran around for more than a minute with his arms outstretched in the "WTF IS GOING ON!?!" position while the commentators went on at length about how befuddling it is to change formations and not tell the team.

 

[soxfan121]

Thoroughly out played in every facet of the game...and still taking home three points. That's how you make Europe. 
 
Seriously, the clownshoes shit at the end of the first half was something I've never seen in the EPL. Yet, it didn't cost them the game. 
 
Oh, and De Gea is rather good.

 

[Zomp]

The mark of a good team is gaining 3 points while playing like shit.  They did that today.  Last year would have seen them lose 3-1.
 
Lets hope its out of their system for Sunday.  Good to see RVP net twice.

 

[DLew On Roids]

I thought the mark of a good team was playing well.  Not that I've seen much of that this year, so I could be mistaken.

 

[Zomp]

A point against Moyes, who I genuinely felt bad for when his time ended...LVG's starting 11 today were all at the club last year.

 

[Zomp]

0-0 with Spurs means United head into the new year in 3rd, just ahead of Southampton and Arsenal.  I can't believe we didn't score in the first half but credit to Spurs for taking it to us in the second.  A tricky fixture away to Stoke is next up on New Year's Day.

 

[Dummy Hoy]

Funny...I meant to post a mea culpa a week ago or so about DeGea. Zomp has been saying how good he is for the last few years and I saw his flaws and wrote it off as more ManU spoiled optimism, but he's really become a world class keeper.
 
And now, formally, I apologize for doubting Manchester United's ability to remain top 4 by January 1st, 2015. I think it may have more to do with the rest of the league than United's true quality, but credit where it's due. I think they're clearly a step below City and Chelsea, but with the exception of a tough string in April, they should be a pretty good bet to snag a CL spot for next season. 
 
They're still the fucking Yankees though.

 

[DLew On Roids]

Maybe Kevin Strootman to Man U isn't such a sure thing after all.

 

[Zomp]

Many outlets are reporting that United will soon sign Victor Valdes on an 18 month contract after having him train at Carrington for the past few months.
 
While I was unimpressed with Valdes at Barca, particularly during the end, it will be nice to have a solid back up to De Gea.
 
But lets get the unasked question out of the way.  Yes, eventually I do think De Gea will go to Real Madrid.  Probably not for 2 or 3 more seasons (I hope) and if he does I think you're looking at the fee breaking the record for a keeper transfer, but I don't think the Valdes signing is a hedge on that.  I'd hope if (when) they sell him they would go for a younger, better keeper.

 

[bosox4283]

Many outlets are reporting that United will soon sign Victor Valdes on an 18 month contract after having him train at Carrington for the past few months.
 
While I was unimpressed with Valdes at Barca, particularly during the end, it will be nice to have a solid back up to De Gea.
 
But lets get the unasked question out of the way.  Yes, eventually I do think De Gea will go to Real Madrid.  Probably not for 2 or 3 more seasons (I hope) and if he does I think you're looking at the fee breaking the record for a keeper transfer, but I don't think the Valdes signing is a hedge on that.  I'd hope if (when) they sell him they would go for a younger, better keeper.

 
I was coming to post this news. Interesting, to say the least. Before his injury, Valdes was most likely going to be Spain's starting keeper in the World Cup. 
 
De Gea grew up in the Atletico system. I'll be seriously bummed out if he ends up at RM. In addition to the money, Real Madrid offers the perfect stage to audition for the national team's starting role. 

 

[Zomp]

 
De Gea grew up in the Atletico system. I'll be seriously bummed out if he ends up at RM. In addition to the money, Real Madrid offers the perfect stage to audition for the national team's starting role. 

 
Exactly.  It just makes too much sense for him.  He could be the next Casillas.  Someone you can plug in for 10-12 years and not worry.  I wouldn't be surprised if next summer he goes for 50-60 million pounds.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

 
Exactly.  It just makes too much sense for him.  He could be the next Casillas.  Someone you can plug in for 10-12 years and not worry.  I wouldn't be surprised if next summer he goes for 50-60 million pounds.

 
Yeah, this seems like a matter of when, not if.  His current contract only runs through summer 2016 so they really need to either sell him this coming summer or sign him to a new deal.  I can see them getting a huge fee if they extend him beforehand but if there's no new contract and they need to sell this coming summer, with Real the only realistic buyer, then I think it'll be considerably cheaper (if still huge for a keeper), more like 25-35M.

 

[soxfan121]

Casillas' contract ends June 2017. Though I'm sure he can be "sold" to Qatar, if need be.

 

[Zomp]

If the below isn't the best thing you've ever seen on the internet, I want to know what is.
 
This:
 
https://vine.co/v/OpjjOpjne2J
 
has  become this
 
https://vine.co/v/ODa1gV0LVFa

 

[soxfan121]

If the below isn't the best thing you've ever seen on the internet, I want to know what is.
 
This:
 
https://vine.co/v/OpjjOpjne2J
 
has  become this
 
https://vine.co/v/ODa1gV0LVFa

 
Falcao looks good in blue. Compliments his five o'clock shadow nicely.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

If the below isn't the best thing you've ever seen on the internet, I want to know what is.
 
This:
 
https://vine.co/v/OpjjOpjne2J
 
has  become this
 
https://vine.co/v/ODa1gV0LVFa

That is brilliant.

What do you think United's starting XI will look like now that LVG has a fully (or nearly) healthy squad? He really has a huge squad for a team playing once a week.

 

[Zomp]

I honestly have no idea.  I'm surprised he's insisting on the 3-5-2.  If it were me, against teams we can attack I'd go:
 
 
----------------------DDG--------------------
Valencia---Jones---Rojo------------Shaw
-------------------Carrick(or Blind)----------
------------Herrera-------Di Maria-------------
----------------------Mata------------------------
---------------Falcao-------Rooney
 
 
With Rooney going in for Mata if RVP is going to play, or swap RVP for Falcao.
 
Against teams like City and Chelsea I thought he'd go
 
---------------------DDG----------------------
Raphael---Jones----Rojo------------Shaw
--------------Carrick----Blind-------------------
Herrera-------------Rooney-------------Di Maria
-------------------RVP or Falcao-----------------

 

[teddykgb]

Where's Januzaj? On the bench with Pogba, Zaha, and Cleverley?

 

[Zomp]

That would be funny if you're team every produced someone better than SWP.

 

[teddykgb]

Lake was going to be England's captain! I was there when Roberto Mancini birthed Sergio Aguero.

 

[SoxFanInCali]

van Gaal - "Every aspect of a match is against us"
 
Well, other than your budget about a gazillion times theirs, yeah.

 

[Dummy Hoy]

You guys have any knowledge on Will Keane? He's going to be at Wednesday for the rest of the year on loan, curious what his game is.

 

[teddykgb]

Well he's a MUFC youth, which means you need to pick the greatest player in the history of the game at his position and say he's the next version of him.

 

[blueguitar322]

League 1 team waiting for United if they win the replay