Manchester United 13/14: Mid-table or Bust
- Thread starter Zomp
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He can't beat his man anymore? He can't string a pass together? He cuts it back to the inside and whips a cross 5 ft outside of the post to no one?
PHIL JONES and Rooney were immense today. We were a bit lucky nobody nicked one of those crosses in during the latter stages of the game, but I think we kept the pace up at a higher intensity then Arsenal wanted to play.
I really thought Rooney has matured enough to the point where he isn't a liability on the pitch. Guess I was wrong.
Tom Cleverley probably had his worst game in the shirt. I thought Fellaini actually did pretty well in the middle of the pitch.
Tom Cleverley probably had his worst game in the shirt. I thought Fellaini actually did pretty well in the middle of the pitch.
You have to give him 2 years to get the players and system he wants. Have to. If we miss Champions League I hope the board sees that.
Yes, I'm convincing myself as well.
Yes, I'm convincing myself as well.
They're only five points off fourth place, their Champions League form has been very good, and they're currently missing the two players they can probably least afford to miss in RVP and Carrick. Unfortunately, something like 4th place, a domestic cup, and a respectable CL knockout showing is still very much a possibility. I'd love to be able to bury them but I'm not doing it yet.
If RVP is healthy, I think I'd rather have Carrick and no Rooney than Rooney and no Carrick, given their other options at those positions. And, yes, I realize that Rooney has been in spectacular form of late and is a world class player. But this team is broken without Carrick and Kagawa could likely do a credible job if they ever played him in his natural position.DLew On Roids said:
"I tink you forgot one!"
Wayne Rooney, 27 days ago: "Our aim is to be top or thereabouts at the new year."
Seems more like six months right about now. I wonder when Evra goes after Moyes in the press.
Seems more like six months right about now. I wonder when Evra goes after Moyes in the press.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
You might be understating it.
You were right that they have giant problems without Carrick. It's really the absence of any of those three, though, isn't it? They didn't seem really scary on attack without Rooney, and didn't seem comfortable in possession without Carrick. Van Persie didn't have enough opportunities to change the game on his own without their influence.
DLew On Roids said:
Here is what bothers me, and I'm usually not one to buy into intangibles, but during Moyes' press conference he says stuff like, "Well we're home at Old Trafford so we'll aim to make it difficult for them".
What? You're managing a team that won the title last year. Tell your team you're at home so you expect 3 points and a fucking scalp.
I want this to work out for Moyes. But I guess I never considered that he was known for scrapping results together against teams when he was overmatched. It never occured to me that maybe its the only way he can manage. I want it to change, but I've yet to see it.
I see teddy reading and not posting for a while, I can only assume he is searching for his lotion.
I couldn't agree more, Zomp (about Moyes, not necessarily Teddy). I think the problem for United is that attitude bleeds into his tactics. You always knew United would become more controlling, more adventurous, more ruthless as the match went on. They seem much more conservative now. It's the difference between a manager with confidence in his tactics and squad and a manager who's unsure he can expect a late goal.
I'm going to be in Manchester next weekend for the match versus Arsenal, I can't use all my lotion up now.
I think you're mostly right about the mentality, but I'm not sure how much it matters. That team last season was not very good, but Baconface had so much influence on refs and other players that they managed to pull it off. I honestly think this was the only way it could have worked out, especially given how pathetic United's summer was.
The only part I really can't figure with United is Fellaini and Kagawa. I still don't know why Kagawa cant' get games, and I can't believe Moyes is insisting on playing Fellaini deep after managing him last season. He's looked mediocre to bad in nearly all his appearances, imo.
I think you're mostly right about the mentality, but I'm not sure how much it matters. That team last season was not very good, but Baconface had so much influence on refs and other players that they managed to pull it off. I honestly think this was the only way it could have worked out, especially given how pathetic United's summer was.
The only part I really can't figure with United is Fellaini and Kagawa. I still don't know why Kagawa cant' get games, and I can't believe Moyes is insisting on playing Fellaini deep after managing him last season. He's looked mediocre to bad in nearly all his appearances, imo.
The fixture list is pretty friendly for United so they've got that going for them. On the other hand, this is a period where they really should be making up ground on the leaders.
This is really the time when Moyes should experiment with a 4-3-3 as now they don't have the "problem" of having to play both Rooney and RVP up front and, without Carrick, they really don't have the players to play a functional and competitive two man midfield anyway.
---Januzaj---Rooney---Nani/Valencia
--------------Kagawa--------
------Cleverley-Jones-------
Evra---Vidic---Evans---Rafael
That lineup might actually surprise some people.
This is really the time when Moyes should experiment with a 4-3-3 as now they don't have the "problem" of having to play both Rooney and RVP up front and, without Carrick, they really don't have the players to play a functional and competitive two man midfield anyway.
---Januzaj---Rooney---Nani/Valencia
--------------Kagawa--------
------Cleverley-Jones-------
Evra---Vidic---Evans---Rafael
That lineup might actually surprise some people.
Nah, they've earned it. The way the CL is setup, they're a Pot 1 team, and they're reaping the benefits of being one. City hasn't performed well enough in Europe for me to think anything negative of it, I just don't want to hear about how great United are if they make it to the last 8 because of a cupcake schedule.
A bit of an old school win yesterday at Hull. Down 2-nil and score to goals quick and nick one in the second half to win 3-2. Yes, its only Hull, but before yesterday they only allowed 3 goals ALL SEASON at home and United match that total. Rooney was MOTM and is on one of his hot streaks. I do like that Moyes is keeping him behind a lead striker (Welbeck, Chicharito) as to not mess with his positioning too much so when RVP returns not much will change.
Rafael was injured early on so Janujaz came in and Tony V switched to right back. If Januzaj keeps developing at the pace he is, Valencia may be my first choice right back. He offers just as much defending as Rafael and obviously delivers a better ball. He picked up needless (and uncharacteristic) red yesterday though so we'll probably see Smalling at right back vs Norwich.
Januzaj is really becoming quite the little player. He's only 18 and we've seen players light it up before then fizzle out (Macheda, for one) but he has a maturity about his game that you can't really teach. Moyes said his future is probably in the number 10 role but he's been great playing on the left or the right wing.
Injuries are mounting and easing up. Carrick and Fletcher (!) have returned, but PHIL JONES, Fellaini, Rafael, and Nani are on the shelf for a few weeks.
Finally, with only 4 days until the transfer window opens I figured I'd give Teddy a bit of humor and talk about transfer business. Marco Reus, Gundogan, and Koke are the players we've been heavily linked with and we have NO SHOT at. All 3 play on Champions League teams that have advanced and in Koke's case he's on the hottest team in Europe.
2 players who I do think we should go after with a slight possibility of getting them are Adam Lallana and Luke Shaw. Lallana is similar to Januzaj (though 7 years older) and can play through the middle or on the wing. He's having a great season for Southampton and would look great on the left side for us. Luke Shaw should be on every team's radar in the Premiership. 18 years old and a beast of a left back. He also plays for Southampton though, and they've made it a point to say they're keeping him for a few years.
Rafael was injured early on so Janujaz came in and Tony V switched to right back. If Januzaj keeps developing at the pace he is, Valencia may be my first choice right back. He offers just as much defending as Rafael and obviously delivers a better ball. He picked up needless (and uncharacteristic) red yesterday though so we'll probably see Smalling at right back vs Norwich.
Januzaj is really becoming quite the little player. He's only 18 and we've seen players light it up before then fizzle out (Macheda, for one) but he has a maturity about his game that you can't really teach. Moyes said his future is probably in the number 10 role but he's been great playing on the left or the right wing.
Injuries are mounting and easing up. Carrick and Fletcher (!) have returned, but PHIL JONES, Fellaini, Rafael, and Nani are on the shelf for a few weeks.
Finally, with only 4 days until the transfer window opens I figured I'd give Teddy a bit of humor and talk about transfer business. Marco Reus, Gundogan, and Koke are the players we've been heavily linked with and we have NO SHOT at. All 3 play on Champions League teams that have advanced and in Koke's case he's on the hottest team in Europe.
2 players who I do think we should go after with a slight possibility of getting them are Adam Lallana and Luke Shaw. Lallana is similar to Januzaj (though 7 years older) and can play through the middle or on the wing. He's having a great season for Southampton and would look great on the left side for us. Luke Shaw should be on every team's radar in the Premiership. 18 years old and a beast of a left back. He also plays for Southampton though, and they've made it a point to say they're keeping him for a few years.
I'd be very upset to see Lallana turn up at OT. I really like him as a player and he'd add a bit of fire I think your side generally needs. Gundogan et al aren't leaving their teams, obviously. By all accounts I've read, Shaw is Chelsea bound.
That was Man U's fourth yellow for simulation this season (and from their 12th man, Howard Webb, no less!). No other club has more than two.
I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in the Arsenal thread, since he's been rumored to go to both places, but Robert Lewandowski isn't coming to England. He's signing a contract to move to Bayern in the summer.
I think that was pretty much a given in the summer. Not surprising.
Fine by me. Striker is probably the 5th most important thing that we could improve.
Fine by me. Striker is probably the 5th most important thing that we could improve.
Borderline red on Fabio (IMO) sets the stage for Bony to head home a 90th minute cross from Routledge. Swansea win 2-1 at Old Trafford.
Just not a very good team right now. Rooney and RvP mask a pretty underwhelming roster. When they're not on the field, they lack any king of dynamic play in the final third. In faIrness, Nani, RvP, Young, Rooney and Jones were all out. And after Fabio's red card, they were forced to use Fletcher at RB. He cas exposed repeatedly in that role, including on the game winning goal. I like Kagawa and think he's sorely underused but he was invisible today. I think I've seen enough of Cleverly to think he's nohing but a squad rotation player. They really need a dynamic midfielder that can hold possession, pass and occasionally make runs forward into the box from deep lying position. Another winger probably wouldn't hurt either.
Thought Buttner had a pretty decent game today. Don't know that I would let him go until there's another viable alternative at left back. Doesn't look like Shaw or Baines are walking through that door anytime soon. Fabio certainly not doing himself any favors with his performance today.
Thought Buttner had a pretty decent game today. Don't know that I would let him go until there's another viable alternative at left back. Doesn't look like Shaw or Baines are walking through that door anytime soon. Fabio certainly not doing himself any favors with his performance today.
I still want to give Moyes time, but I'm over Kagawa. He's had plenty of chances to show what he can do and one game against Norwich last season doesn't cut it.
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