Manchester United 13/14: Mid-table or Bust
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Even the BBC is now running with the Mata to United story.
If true, it can only help United vis-a-vis the status quo but I still don't think he's what they really need. From Chelsea's perspective, the whole thing makes little sense unless they have replacements lined up and even then not really. I look forward to Oscar and Hazard taking knocks during a congested set of fixtures and Fat Frank in the #10 role.
If true, it can only help United vis-a-vis the status quo but I still don't think he's what they really need. From Chelsea's perspective, the whole thing makes little sense unless they have replacements lined up and even then not really. I look forward to Oscar and Hazard taking knocks during a congested set of fixtures and Fat Frank in the #10 role.
Surely, this is a low...
LINK: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/23/fan-999-police-sir-alex-ferguson-manchester-united
LINK: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/23/fan-999-police-sir-alex-ferguson-manchester-united
DLew On Roids said:
I'm with you. The way this season has been going I still expect Mata's helicopter to crash on the way to Old Trafford by the ball Phil Jones shot in the Penalties.
But I'm curious as to why you think Mourinho loves fucking with United? Maybe it was a throwaway line but he's always been really respectful of the club and I don't think it was any secret that he very much wanted to be SAF's successor.
I don't think he wanted any part of being Sir Rednose's successor, but I could see him being Moyes' in a few years. Mourinho seems to have excellent timing of arriving just as a talented team is ready to break through, and getting out just before they are ready to fall off. I think he saw that Man Utd. was due for a dropoff, and whatever he would have done would have been compared to SAF, but he will happily jump in after a couple down years with the promise of an outrageous transfer budget.
There is a story tonight in one of the papers that broke the Mata story that Rooney may agree to a new 5-year deal worth 300k pounds per week. Its an obvious overpay but it ain't my money and if we can keep Rooney/RVP/Mata together for a few years I'd love to see what they can do.
Vidic has announced he'll be leaving the club at the end of the season. His contract will run out and he will be a free agent. There are reports saying he's already agreed to a deal with Inter but Juve are rumored to be after him as well. He said he wants a change of scenery and won't stay in England, and to be honest its probably best for the club as center defense is a position where the younger guys look ready to step in.
The more intriguing question is who becomes the next captain? There are some suggestions it could be Evans but I'm not sure how I feel about someone who isn't a clear first choice at his position to get it. Some are also reporting they could use it as a sweetner for Rooney to sign the deal. I'm admittedly a fan boy so I wouldn't mind it but I wonder if any other candidate will step up. Right now I think it has to be Rooney or De Gea by default.
The more intriguing question is who becomes the next captain? There are some suggestions it could be Evans but I'm not sure how I feel about someone who isn't a clear first choice at his position to get it. Some are also reporting they could use it as a sweetner for Rooney to sign the deal. I'm admittedly a fan boy so I wouldn't mind it but I wonder if any other candidate will step up. Right now I think it has to be Rooney or De Gea by default.
I'll always remember Vidic for his record setting three consecutive times being sent off in the league vs. Liverpool.
Nobody stands out to me as a captain if Rooney leaves. Then again, with injuries and squad rotation, it seems like it's been a while since you had a full-time, plays every game captain.
Nobody stands out to me as a captain if Rooney leaves. Then again, with injuries and squad rotation, it seems like it's been a while since you had a full-time, plays every game captain.
Amazing player in his prime. But if Vidic leaving inspires Moyes to actually play a consistent CB pairing, that's probably a plus for you guys.
The likely degree of turnover at United this summer looks pretty serious:
Vidic
Rio
Evra
Giggs (probably)
Nani (probably)
Chicharito (probably)
Anderson (probably)
And others definitely possible.
The likely degree of turnover at United this summer looks pretty serious:
Vidic
Rio
Evra
Giggs (probably)
Nani (probably)
Chicharito (probably)
Anderson (probably)
And others definitely possible.
Yep. Top 4 pursuit is over. It'll be interesting to see what happens next year. Vidic, Rio, and Evra are all leaving. I wouldn't be surprised if RVP wanted to go either. So 3/4ths of the backline and a partner for Carrick are needed. Perhaps a striker as well. I do think Phil Jones, Smalling, and Evans can fill the spots but one may be brought in. A left back and a center mid are more pressing.
I haven't seen the stats yet but I think they had something like 75% possession, Too many crosses with just Rooney/RVP and Mata in the box.
I haven't seen the stats yet but I think they had something like 75% possession, Too many crosses with just Rooney/RVP and Mata in the box.
Mick slid a finger up Fergie's ass, which Fergie likes most of the time, but Mick, a well known sex pest left it in too long and Fergie followed through....and then Fulham scored. Bad day all round.
Is anybody else finally ready to give up on Moyes? This team obviously has problems that extend beyond the coach, but I just don't see Moyes as the man capable of overseeing a rebuild and transforming united back into an entertaining, world class team.
The Fulham game summed up the Moyes tenure in a nutshell. Defensive lapses and absolutely no creativity around goal besides sending in cross after cross.
The Fulham game summed up the Moyes tenure in a nutshell. Defensive lapses and absolutely no creativity around goal besides sending in cross after cross.
This is a really interesting article on the types of chances that Premier League teams create that is pretty informative about the Moyes transition. Moyes gets a lot of stick for emphasizing crossing rather than more fluid play through the middle but the stats (which don't show crosses per se, admittedly), suggest that the chances United creates are not that different from other teams in the league and that the team's low number of through-ball-created chances reflects a much longer term trend that hasn't really changed in the SAF-Moyes transition. I'm not saying that Moyes is blameless but I think people exaggerate regarding his tactics.
This is the most telling graph:
This is the most telling graph:
Transfer News Live @DeadlineDayLive 3m
BREAKING: Wayne Rooney has signed an astonishing £300k p/week contract extension at Manchester United. (Source: @WayneRooney)
BREAKING: Wayne Rooney has signed an astonishing £300k p/week contract extension at Manchester United. (Source: @WayneRooney)
And will become a club ambassador when he retires. I've never had a problem with Rooney's application and dedication on the pitch but to consider him in the same role as Bobby Charlton once he's finished is...strange.
That's £15.6M annually. Its a fuckton of money to pay for a player's likely decline years but I think it makes sense for United in the bigger picture. They have a ton of new money coming in from their new sponsorship mega-deals and if they had to sell Rooney on the cheap this summer then buy a replacement it would (a) probably be a more expensive proposition over the life of the contract once you factor in the transfer cost and (b) they might not be able to get the same quality as the biggest strikers might not want to go somewhere without CL football.
Maybe the more interesting question is what this contract, plus the signing of Mata, means for Van Persie. I wouldn't be surprised if this deal was signed with the understanding that RVP will be moving on this summer, so next year Rooney can finally move back to his preferred spot leading the line and Mata can move into the #10 role for which he's suited. And I wouldn't be surprised if RVP is basically fine with that. He's only got a couple years left and I can't see him wanting to spend those years playing for David Moyes and out of the Champion's League.
Maybe the more interesting question is what this contract, plus the signing of Mata, means for Van Persie. I wouldn't be surprised if this deal was signed with the understanding that RVP will be moving on this summer, so next year Rooney can finally move back to his preferred spot leading the line and Mata can move into the #10 role for which he's suited. And I wouldn't be surprised if RVP is basically fine with that. He's only got a couple years left and I can't see him wanting to spend those years playing for David Moyes and out of the Champion's League.
I don't think United really had a choice.
They're going to miss out on the Champions League and if that was coupled with a Rooney departure this summer the club would look awful. By signing Rooney to a long term deal its a statement of intent that they still plan on shelling out for good players. Rooney obviously bent them over a barrel but credit to his side for pouncing at the right time.
I also think RVP is likely gone after this season. I don't think he'll go back to Arsenal but I could see him doing some damage in Serie A or at a team like Monaco/Dortmund.
I don't think Rooney will age as poorly/rapidly as some others think. In the latter years of the contract he might play in the midfield but for the next 2 or 3 years he'll play like he always has. In any position of the front 4.
They're going to miss out on the Champions League and if that was coupled with a Rooney departure this summer the club would look awful. By signing Rooney to a long term deal its a statement of intent that they still plan on shelling out for good players. Rooney obviously bent them over a barrel but credit to his side for pouncing at the right time.
I also think RVP is likely gone after this season. I don't think he'll go back to Arsenal but I could see him doing some damage in Serie A or at a team like Monaco/Dortmund.
I don't think Rooney will age as poorly/rapidly as some others think. In the latter years of the contract he might play in the midfield but for the next 2 or 3 years he'll play like he always has. In any position of the front 4.
Now that United have committed so much money to Rooney, selling Van Persie really isn't that bad of busines. You could move Rooney back to striker and allow Mata to play in his favored #10 role Rooney currently occupies.
Obviously, United would prefer to sell him outside of England but I don't know how many takers there will be for a 30 year old injury prone striker on a massive contract. Arsenal seem like the team that would be most interested.
If United can recoup most of their 22.5 million pound fee, I say the pull the trigger. Be happy that he almost single handedly won you a title and move on.
Obviously, United would prefer to sell him outside of England but I don't know how many takers there will be for a 30 year old injury prone striker on a massive contract. Arsenal seem like the team that would be most interested.
If United can recoup most of their 22.5 million pound fee, I say the pull the trigger. Be happy that he almost single handedly won you a title and move on.
With his age, history, and wages, I doubt they'd get more than 10 million. And he'd probably still have to take a wage cut unless he went to a club that just didn't care about how much they pay a player (Monaco, PSG).
Yeah I'm not really worried about the money they'd recoup. I just don't want him in the Premier League.
Very good display yesterday without any out and out wingers. I think this is the way moving forward, with Januzaj, Rooney, and Mata all switching in back of RVP. I said it upthread but Janujaz's performances are really outdoing his age.
Goal miss aside it was Fellaini's strongest performance for us. Breaking up play in the middle, playing some nice passes. I read somewhere he had 91% passing yesterday. He has really good feat for such a big, physical presence.
Very good display yesterday without any out and out wingers. I think this is the way moving forward, with Januzaj, Rooney, and Mata all switching in back of RVP. I said it upthread but Janujaz's performances are really outdoing his age.
Goal miss aside it was Fellaini's strongest performance for us. Breaking up play in the middle, playing some nice passes. I read somewhere he had 91% passing yesterday. He has really good feat for such a big, physical presence.
You know, I've kind of been thinking Moyes just needs a little more time and a few better players in order to compete in England and in Europe. However, games like today's make me wonder whether he has the tactical acumen needed to coach this side.
Or this is just a really, really mediocre team.
Or both....
Or this is just a really, really mediocre team.
Or both....
Does this mediocre season go down under SAF? If you believe no, then you have to look at the manager.
Vinho Tinto said:
In fairness to Moyes, do you? It's not like there's another SAF out there to plug in.
TheJodyReedExperience said:
Do I blame him for the season? Absolutely.
In Europe, they've been mediocre for several seasons. I didn't expect him to do miracles at home or abroad, but what has happened domestically is inexcusable. Getting knocked out so early in the FA Cup and the flop in the League Cup. I think they've been worse than the 15 point gap off of first in the league. They're tied with Everton and 5 points behind Spurs. Given the current rosters of those three clubs, Moyes is clearly underachieving. Especially when he is well versed in the league.
I don't want hear about not having another SAF available. Yes, they aren't going to find another all time great manager who will manage them for 4 decades, but this club has a lot of prestige and money. The list of managers who will want to work there is long. When SAF was going to retire 10 years ago the assumption was Martin O'Neil was going to take over. They again anointed a manager who is not worthy of their club because....? They seem to drift towards what makes them comfortable over who can be great.
I get why they have to stick with him. Barring something untenable happening, firing him now is a strict panic move; but I am very skeptical that he is capable of this job. There was little from his run at Everton that implied greatness and that has not changed.
How much are they underachieving seems like a relevant question. I have friends who are United fans that take it as an article of faith that the team would be in the Top 4 with any other manager, always falling back on the tired argument that they won the league last year and ignoring the drop from Ferguson to anybody, the simultaneous performance drops of a bunch of key players in their 30s, the high level of injuries, and the fact that the current Top 4 all have improved a lot over the last year. Moyes is a clown and probably isn't the man to lead them forward but I think there's a good argument that if they had hired somebody else they still finish 5th (although perhaps better in the cups). They're 11 points off 4th right now. How much difference can a manager (non-Fergie division, and putting aside other unusual cases like Mourinho) really make?Vinho Tinto said:
Nick Kaufman said:
I think he's a clown for other reasons - his tactics are unimaginative and his team selections are often puzzling. The point is that even a relatively mediocre manager is not going to be 11 points worse than most other managers given the same players and injury luck.
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