Dismiss Notice
Guest, I have a big favor to ask you. We've been working very hard to establish ourselves on social media. If you like/follow our pages it would be a HUGE help to us. SoSH on Facebook and Inside the Pylon Thanks! Nip

Kyrie speculation

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by DrewDawg, Jan 29, 2019.

  1. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    32,545
    In his mind he already said he was coming back and feels like doing it over and over isn't the way he wants to handle it.
     
  2. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,612
    Not sure how much that helps when most of the players are being traded.
     
  3. sox311

    sox311 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,623
    Full video of today's quotes.




    Dear Kyrie, get rid of your phone, don't talk to the media, don't listen to the talk and we'll see you at 12:01AM on July first. Hopefully we win a title this year too. Ok, thanks.

    It is amazing out out of context everything is taken. It seems he said "Ask me July 1st." As in, when he sings with Boston and all of this will be for nothing and just useless, unneeded noise.
     
  4. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,349
    Agreed. He's positioning himself as the calm amidst the media storm but the storm exists because he's now suddenly non-committal when before he had stated otherwise. It's his mess and he wouldn't take any accountability for it.
     
  5. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    32,545
    He's either going 1 for 14 from the field tonight or breaking the MSG scoring record.
     
  6. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    32,545
    It's because he feels his being forced into addressing this because of things others are doing. He made his statement before the season, then AD makes a demand and the Knicks make a trade and he's getting hounded again.

    And unless and until he says something there's not much we can do and we're going to drive ourselves crazy.
     
  7. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,632
    Right, but this is exactly why he is not a leader. He can’t handle adversity and his first thought is individual not team.

    It costs him nothing to issue a one to two sentence statement, there is literally zero downside. Instead he deicides to rant about how horrible the industry is that allows him to retire with 1/2 Billion dollars.
     
  8. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

    Messages:
    17,228
    It’s the players right and it’s Kyrie’s right to be a Free Agent on July 1st. The Celtics are not obligated to guarantee him a contract on Feb 1st and Kyrie isn’t obligated to assure the Celtics (or their fans) that he will remain here. This right was negotiated many years ago when Free Agency was first established in the CBA.

    Anyone upset with anything Kyrie has done has to try and understand that these are his rights and the Celtics rights. Being upset at either is silly from my seat.


    With all due respect, spare me. This is an enormous business and anyone who puts their tram over their individual goals entering FA simply doesn’t get that. Look at Isaiah and disagree.
     
  9. bosockboy

    bosockboy Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    10,089
    Fair enough but they had a top 3 player walk away.
     
  10. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,096
    For those on the "not a leader" bandwagon:

    Has there been a high profile pending free agent that's committed to their team some months prior to max contract free agency? Beyond the 1-and-1 guys where the option is mostly a formality? Anthony Davis has requested a trade 18 months prior to his free agency.
     
  11. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,091
    Then he shouldn't have said anything in the first place. Clearly, he didn't think it through and realize that this would obviously come up again around the trading deadline. If he had said nothing, he'd still be getting the same questions, but instead of looking like a guy who is going back on his word, he'd just be another superstar that is heading into free agency. That's my issue here. If he wants to be a leader so bad, and he's going to make this big commitment at Fan Appreciation Event, no less, then he needs to be able to recognize that his words have consequences.

    Kyrie seems to want to be a leader, and he wants to say whatever he wants whenever he wants, but he doesn't want to deal with the responsibilities that come along with any of that.
     
  12. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,679
    I will say this. If I could get a return for Kyrie that is great enough that it would allow me to acquire AD without giving up Tatum/Brown, it's something I might actually consider because you'd then have 1.5 years and 2 playoff runs to convince AD to stick around for the long haul. It's obviously not likely but, for the sake of argument, let's say Denver is willing to offer Jamal Murray and Plumlee's expiring deal for Kyrie thinking it potentially puts them over the top against GS.

    Celtics then send Murray/Time Lord/MEM/SAC/LAC to New Orleans for Davis.

    Following the trades, Celtics have the following:

    Horford / Baynes / Theis
    AD / Morris
    Tatum / Semi
    Brown / Hayward
    Rozier / Smart

    And if the worst case scenario emerges where AD leaves you in summer of 2020, you still have a foundation of Tatum and Brown to fall back on. If the NYK threat is as real as it seems, using Kyrie to lock in AD may not be the worst idea. But the problem with this scenario, and where it falls apart, is finding enough value for Kyrie as a rental to allow you to keep both Tatum and Brown out of the deal.
     
  13. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,939
    If David Price could make everyone love him on the way to an MVP-level championship performance, I'm not going to sweat Kyrie yet.
     
  14. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,026
    If the Celtics are trading Kyrie then every other team knows that he's a flight risk this summer and the offers are going to be minimal. Denver is not parting with Jamal Murray for a half year of Kyrie. The best you'd probably get is an expiring contract and a lottery-protected first. Maybe something a little better if you eat some money in the deal.
     
  15. Jeff Van GULLY

    Jeff Van GULLY Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,243
    Watched the video. He seemed really pissed to even be addressing the situation at this point in the season. Seems like this season has worn him down a bit too.

    I really don't think this means he's even close to being gone. I say it's still likely that Kyrie re-signs in July and the Celtics make some sort of trade (AD or someone else) next summer.
     
  16. Rustjive

    Rustjive Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    894
    The leader stuff is so overblown. He's not KG, not Pierce, not Tim Duncan, so what? NBA history is full of great championship winning players that weren't even good teammates let alone good leaders - MJ, Kobe, Shaq, Wade, Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, etcetc.
     
  17. Cellar-Door

    Cellar-Door Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,836
    Oh, well that's just demonstrably untrue, almost all of the Celtics play significantly better with Kyrie on the court than with Kyrie off.
     
  18. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    12,396
    Agree with the bolded.
    I think that he does not consider what fans think of his comments, as opposed to the reporters to whom he makes them. To the latter, he probably does come off like you say -- worn out by repetition. Fans, meanwhile, swallow their own genitals in the horror of what-ifs.
    He's a weird guy. He only owes his team and teammates a full effort.
     
  19. JCizzle

    JCizzle Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,926
    Good post. Plus we have Horford who seems to be the level headed, non superstar vet
     
  20. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,939
    Just to illustrate your point, Paul Pierce was older than Kyrie is now when he got tossed from a playoff game and had the ill-conceived fake bandage press conference.
     
  21. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,096
    It seems as if we want Kyrie to go Bill Belichick on us: "I'm just focusing on tonight's game and the season". However, not everyone is Belichick, and Kyrie is what he is. He was asked about the Porzingas trade and the Knicks hours before playing the Knicks; what do you want him to say? If he says "no comment", he still gets crucified with the "not being a leader" nonsense.

    He knows it's a brutal business. If he pops an Achilles he may not get a veteran max contract. He knows the Celtics could be sold tomorrow, with new owners coming in that fire Ainge and blow up the team in order to maximize cash flow. He's going to keep his options open.

    I will say, however, it would probably suit everyone's best interests (his and the team's) if he just says from now on: "I'm not going to comment on my contract situation. I need to focus 100% on this season going forward." Hopefully someone is whispering that into his ear.
     
    #271 lexrageorge, Feb 1, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  22. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,679
    Yes, this is why it's a low probability scenario but it's something I would consider if the unexpected happened. Maybe Denver goes crazy after not being relevant for a while and goes for it. Maybe the Spurs dangle Dejounte Murray since Kyrie has expressed an affinity for the team in the past (probably not given their recent Kawhi experience). Maybe the LAC offer Shai in an attempt to 1) make the playoffs and 2) convince Kyrie to sign while having the cap space to get Kawhi in the fold in the summer.

    Ultimately, Kyrie isn't getting moved (despite E5's best efforts to jinx...) but I remain fixated on getting AD in a Celtics uniform. If they could somehow get him for Kyrie+TL+picks, it would be very interesting to see what a Horford/AD/Tatum/Brown/Rozier/Smart/Morris/Hayward/Baynes lineup could accomplish in the playoffs. And then I'd love to gamble on a Year 3 jump for Tatum into legitimate 2nd banana status and a Hayward recovery that could potentially make the Celtics a more legitimate long-term spot.
     
  23. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    37,113
    The problem here is that it seems like none of the comments in the last 2-3 days about him and his future have been coming from him or anyone associated with him. It seems like all of the speculation is mindless and being put out there by people with agendas such as Klutch. If you watch the video, he seems very agitated that others are speaking about his future that have no idea what they're talking about and he's pissed off rightfully so.
     
  24. Three10toLeft

    Three10toLeft lurker

    Messages:
    1,480
    The leader stuff would be the overblown if Kyrie wasn't hitting everyone over the head with how he wants to be a leader, how he's trying to be a leader, and continues to fall on his face every other week.
     
  25. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    16,001
    Can you imagine the shit storm that would occur if KI actually said this? Everyone would be saying that he's ducking the situation because he is considering leaving.

    He's in a no-win situation. Even if he said, "I'm going to sign here if DA offers me a max contract," people would rip him for being only about the money.

    Every report I've seen indicates that DA has asked Demps to wait until June to make the trade. He's not talking about the current roster and KI won't be on the roster on July 1 when the deal is being made.

    There is no chance that Danny moves Kyrie before the trade deadline. None. Kyrie gives the Cs the best chance of winning a championship this year. Better than Davis.
     
  26. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    12,396
    I think its overblown, but why is his expression a bad thing. People state goals that they are presently short of all the time. Otherwise they wouldn't be goals.
     
  27. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    37,113
    What about his comments make him be any less of a leader? What would he have had to say to suffice?
     
  28. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

    Messages:
    17,228
    Maybe those were his true feelings at the time. Is Kyrie not allowed to have a change of heart? We can point specifically to internal issues that he's had with some of our younger players as a potential catalyst for this change. Imagine the response if he was asked a question back then and he didn't say that Boston was where he wanted to be?

    And there is about a zero chance that Kyrie is traded as an expiring contract without playing out this season with an attempted run to a title.
     
  29. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,096
    I meant to say it's best if he goes the "no comment" route going forward. Because there is nothing more he can say that will please the wolves that have trouble understanding the nature of today's NBA and free agency. I've since edited my post.
     
  30. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,091
    Again, Kyrie is the one that keeps talking about being a leader. It's not the fans. It's not the media. It's him. Almost after every game, we're getting sound bites of him talking about how he needs to do this to be a better leader, or he needs to do that to be a mentor to the young guys, or he needed to call Daddy Lebron to apologize for not recognizing how hard it is to be a leader.

    He keeps putting this stuff out there, and like I just said, he doesn't want to deal with the repercussions. He's got nobody to blame but himself. If he doesn't make a grand gesture of committing to the team a couple months ago, nobody would be talking about how he's waffling on his decision. Now, he's getting pissed because people are holding his feet to the fire on what he said previously.
     
  31. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,091
    Oh, I'm not talking about trading him. There's no way anybody is going to give up enough value for a 5 month rental for that to make sense from the C's perspective. I think we have no choice but to ride this out, and hope Danny doesn't end up getting played in the end, because if we lose Kyrie, there is no AD. That much is certain. And everyone and their mother knows that Danny's plan all along has been to get AD here this summer.
     
  32. TheoShmeo

    TheoShmeo Skrub's sympathy case Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    12,617
    I think Kyrie is not a good leader. Screaming at Hayward on the Court. Publicly complaining about not getting the ball in one end of game situation. Making it clear that he thinks the young guns are not playing well earlier this season (which I have less of a problem with but still don't get why he handled publicly).

    But regarding the contract thing, a leader thinks through his actions. Kyrie now admits that he made his comments about definitely coming back to the fans because he was caught up in the moment. How immature is that? It reminds me of what a HS kid would do (not that he has anywhere to sign, but directionally). It's certainly not the hallmark of what I would consider to be a good leader.

    And now he's hedging and publicly saying that Boston is in the lead but you never know, etc. Why? I mean, truth is a good reply, but before we discuss what he should have said, what exactly changed?

    That the team is not as good as he had hoped? Work to make it better; certainly don't give up after half a season, when the emotions are still running high. That Hayward is going to take longer than expected to regain his game and might not ever? I mean it sucks but some players just take longer and Hayward WAS an all star and Kryie DID want him. To possibly write him off now seems premature. That Danny and he are clashing? Not that I know any of that to a certainty and he could be fine with Gordon and Danny. But something changed, and I'm offering possible answers (other than the first one, which Kyrie noted) and it strikes me that none of it is sufficient to warrant a leader changing his tune mid season.

    As to what he should have said, I guess I would have preferred less if he was unable to just say "nothing has changed." Now every word is going to be dissected and the controversy and distraction he said he doesn't want had gas thrown all over it. If he could not say "nothing has changed," then a simple "I'm totally focused on winning this year and will deal with my career when it's over" would have been preferred. Not ideal by any means, but better than what he said.

    Some will say and have said that he would be damned if he did or damned if he didn't. But having opened up his mouth without thinking it through already, he put himself squarely in this position, so here we are.

    PS: I also don't actually believe him now. If it's true that Davis says Boston is not a preferred destination and that he and Kyrie are friends, it follows that Kyrie has told Davis what he intends and it's not Boston. Another hallmark of good leadership is not getting caught in lies so easily. Now I may not have it right, I well know, but that's how it looks to me.
     
  33. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    32,545
    Actually, wasn't the first thing he said in the interview that this is a distraction from what's important, which is this team and his teammates?
     
  34. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    32,545
    This is demonstrably NOT true and you, and this forum, should be better than this.

    Make your point using facts and not things that have been shown to be untrue over and over. If you don't then you're taking things off the table here and making this place worse than you found it.
     
  35. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,091
    Unless there's another video out there, weren't the first words out of his mouth "At the end of the day, I'm going to do what I feel is best for my career." Then he went onto the "my focus this year is just winning a championship....
     
  36. Rustjive

    Rustjive Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    894
    Him trying and failing as a leader after talking about wanting to be a leader isn't a big deal and that's not what's being overblown here. What's overblown is the fan histrionics - people like Bill Simmons saying that he's fine with Kyrie being traded or leaving for NYK because Kyrie has failed at being a leader. Who says that matters? What matters to me as a Celtics fan is his on/off rating, his proven ability in the clutch, his actual basketball ability. Someone trying and failing to be a leader, get him out of here? Thank you, next.
     
  37. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    32,545
    There's multiple videos out there, so perhaps I saw a different cut.

    What should he say that will satisfy folks here?
     
  38. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    27,383
    I can't speak for the media but if Irving simply said that nothing has changed for him since the preseason, this thread has far fewer posts than it does now.
     
  39. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,091
    Oh, that I agree with. But I don't think I've read a word Bill Simmons has written in 15 years. That's all nonsense.
     
  40. Rustjive

    Rustjive Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    894
    It's absolutely true that Kyrie sucks at speaking. In a lot of interviews he speaks like someone who once heard a neat vocabulary word used by someone he admires, and he tries to use the same word, but the definition doesn't fit the context. The stuff about asking him in July, that's another facet of that - someone probably told him that he shouldn't lay his intentions bare because that erodes his negotiation leverage, so he's wanted to stick to that but hasn't thought about how it would look after his October declaration. That's how I read it, having always seen him as a person that wants to be regarded as thoughtful but isn't actually thoughtful.
     
  41. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,091
    Or he could, you know, just shut up. Why isn't anyone sticking a microphone in front of Al Horford or Gordon Hayward? Because they aren't going to give the media a story. Kyrie has proven time and time again that if you give him enough rope, he's going to hang himself if his goal is not create a story. The minute I saw that clip posted, the first thing I noticed was the time, 5:24. He was putting on his goddamned shoes. Does it take anyone that long to put on their shoes? Just put on your shoes and say "I've got nothing to say, I've got to get my workout in."
     
  42. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    32,545
    I think he got caught up in everything when he said that earlier.

    I think (HOPE) that this team righting itself and making a postseason run, with chants of MVP happening, will bring that back.
     
  43. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,679
    Oh he’ll get those chants...tonight :(
     
  44. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,349
    City of Cleveland right now...
     
  45. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    37,113
    He said he was planning on re-signing with Boston and really hasn't said anything to the contrary. He said he's going to do what's best for his career which could very well be doing what he said he would do in the fall. His focus for this season was and is trying to win a championship and it sounds like that hasn't changed either. The reports about him wanting to go to LA to team up with LBJ or go to the Knicks look like they're coming from those not associated with Kyrie. The impression I got from the full interview is that he's sick of the BS that is being put out to the media.

    The leader stuff is an independent issue from the talk about his future IMO. He's in the leadership position for the first time in his career and I think he needs to try to find his way which may take time.
     
  46. The Social Chair

    The Social Chair Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,499
    Simmons is being ridiculous. Kyrie has handled his free agency ok. He's earned the freedom to explore the situation that makes the most sense for him and his family. It's up to the Celtics to get Davis and become his best option because this team is not as presently constructed.
     
  47. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,096
    Kyrie's going to be 27 in a couple of months. Paul Pierce declared himself a team leader at 27 and wrapped a bandage around his face. And then said he was the best player on a bad team.
     
  48. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    27,383
    Am I missing something? What negotiation leverage does Kyrie surrender by being definitive about remaining with the Celtics?

    Also, I don't think I agree that he keeps the heat on Ainge to bring in Davis or some other player by being coy. Kyrie can restate that its his intention to remain in Boston and nothing suggests that Ainge will take his foot off the gas in pursuit of improving the team.
     
  49. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,101
    The endless speculation and rumor milling about the NBA is frustrating and also really bores me as a fan. I hate when people talk about how the NBA dominating the news cycle is great; most of the time it is about stupid shit. I love basketball but I honestly don’t care at all for news about Kyrie, or Anthony Davis, until they are actually traded or sign somewhere else.
     
  50. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    27,383
    You're not very millennial. For a millennial.
     

Share This Page