If we expand to Brazilian Futball single-name identification:Sox players that only need their first name to know who we're talking about:
Pedro
Ted
Papi*
Manny
Nomar
Says all you need right there.
Yaz
Rico
Tek
If we expand to Brazilian Futball single-name identification:Sox players that only need their first name to know who we're talking about:
Pedro
Ted
Papi*
Manny
Nomar
Says all you need right there.
No, the Bledsoe comparison sucks. I never used DrewNE11 as my password but Nomah05! worked for many years. Drew was never thought of as a HoF candidate "only if" like Nomar is, Drew didn't capture the imagination of a Nation. I understand the original comparison, but let's not legitimize it with affirmation. "I know Nomar and you, sir, are no Nomar!"Ouch... yeah the Bledsoe comparison is good.
Yaz had 12.4 WAR in 67 and Lonborg had 4. Somehow not on that list.Looks like 2000 Pedro and Nomar is the best.
https://stacker.com/massachusetts/boston/best-duos-boston-red-sox-history
And as we know, range!He fell short of the HoF, but I do love that Nomar's OPS (.882 v .817) and BA (.313 v .310) eclipse his calm-eyed rival from New York.
Seriously? Drew was absolutely on a HoF pace before he almost got killed by that Mo Lewis hit. At least that what most people seemed to think at the time.No, the Bledsoe comparison sucks. I never used DrewNE11 as my password but Nomah05! worked for many years. Drew was never thought of as a HoF candidate "only if" like Nomar is, Drew didn't capture the imagination of a Nation. I understand the original comparison, but let's not legitimize it with affirmation. "I know Nomar and you, sir, are no Nomar!"
Uh, no. If you had said "after 1997" I would have agreed with you. If you said after 1998 I may have agreed with you. But after 2000?Seriously? Drew was absolutely on a HoF pace before he almost got killed by that Mo Lewis hit. At least that what most people seemed to think at the time.
Yes I agree Drew at one point was looking like a possible HOFer but I think the prospects of that were already diminishing significantly by 2001 as he had not looked as good in 1999/2000 as the 1994-1998 years.Seriously? Drew was absolutely on a HoF pace before he almost got killed by that Mo Lewis hit. At least that what most people seemed to think at the time.
Uh, no. If you had said "after 1997" I would have agreed with you. If you said after 1998 I may have agreed with you. But after 2000?
After the 1996 Super Bowl season:
1997: 28 TD / 15 INT
1998: 20 / 14
1999: 19 / 21
2000: 17 / 13
Total: 84 / 63
Mo Lewis
2002: 24 / 15
2003: 11 / 12
2004: 20 / 16
2005: 23 / 17
Total: 78 / 60
I mean, he was more or less the same guy in 2002-2005 and as he was in 97-00. The hit in no way derailed his career. He just wasn't that good.
Edit: passer rating from 97-00: 80.3. Passer rating from 2002-2005: 80.3
The Patriots kinda sucked in those years. Everything Carroll learned to do right at USCYes I agree Drew at one point was looking like a possible HOFer but I think the prospects of that were already diminishing significantly by 2001 as he had not looked as good in 1999/2000 as the 1994-1998 years.
edit: @tims4wins beat me to the Bledsoe commentary
But in defense of @Sin Duda, peak Bledsoe was not in the same tier as peak Nomar. Peak Nomar was basically a 6 year stretch (1997-2003 sans 2001 injury) where he accumulated 43 WAR which is on par or even slightly better than the average 6 year peak of HOF shortstops.
Bledsoe’s first year in Buffalo was actually pretty damned good..esp when adjusting for the weather there (worse than Foxborough and ‘02 was a snowy Nov/Dec there)….and the Bills came out banging in early 2003 to where everyone was considering them Super Bowl contenders. IIRC they absolutely waxed the Patriots 31-0 early that year in Buffalo…hard to believe considering the eventual fate of each team. Buffalo would completely unravel and NE wouldn’t lose again after week 2 I think?The Patriots kinda sucked in those years. Everything Carroll learned to do right at UCLA and SEA he learned by doing it wrong in NE. In hindsight, maybe more of that suck was on Drew's shoulders than everyone realized, but the guy had JUST signed a mammoth contract and was considered one of the best QB's in the league. I watched that AFCCG in a room of Steelers fans, and not a single one of them was happy when Brady left and Bledsoe came in. Trading him to a division rival was universally regarded as INSANE because he was "so good"..now BB obviously knew better, but the rest of the planet didn't. So yeah, you can look at the numbers and your points makes perfect sense now. But at the time, he still felt like a potential HOF QB to a lot of the football world.
The 31-0 game was week 1. And yes, everyone had the Bills in the Super Bowl. And no, the Pats didn't lose again after week 4 (they were 2-2).Bledsoe’s first year in Buffalo was actually pretty damned good..esp when adjusting for the weather there (worse than Foxborough and ‘02 was a snowy Nov/Dec there)….and the Bills came out banging in early 2003 to where everyone was considering them Super Bowl contenders. IIRC they absolutely waxed the Patriots 31-0 early that year in Buffalo…hard to believe considering the eventual fate of each team. Buffalo would completely unravel and NE wouldn’t lose again after week 2 I think?
Ugggghhh, USCThe Patriots kinda sucked in those years. Everything Carroll learned to do right at UCLA and SEA he learned by doing it wrong in NE. In hindsight, maybe more of that suck was on Drew's shoulders than everyone realized, but the guy had JUST signed a mammoth contract and was considered one of the best QB's in the league. I watched that AFCCG in a room of Steelers fans, and not a single one of them was happy when Brady left and Bledsoe came in. Trading him to a division rival was universally regarded as INSANE because he was "so good"..now BB obviously knew better, but the rest of the planet didn't. So yeah, you can look at the numbers and your points makes perfect sense now. But at the time, he still felt like a potential HOF QB to a lot of the football world.
The actual quote that started this was:But he never remotely had a stretch like Nomar from 98-00, when he was one of the best hitters on the planet.
I think he was. But NFL and MLB comparisons are apples to oranges at the best of times.Drew was never thought of as a HoF candidate "only if"
Yeah I mentioned further up that peak Nomar was insane. Even if you take his “shoulder seasons” (1997/2002/2003) with the peak years (1998-2000), that 6 year composite of roughly 43 WAR is slightly above average for a typical HOF shortstop’s best 6 year composite. He was an absolute beast.The 31-0 game was week 1. And yes, everyone had the Bills in the Super Bowl. And no, the Pats didn't lose again after week 4 (they were 2-2).
Bledsoe was a fine QB for the vast majority of his career. From 94-97 or so, he was pretty good, and his age and improvement over that period of time had everyone wishing big things for him. But he never remotely had a stretch like Nomar from 98-00, when he was one of the best hitters on the planet.
thank you for sharing this. Classic Sportscenter commentary was a bonus.View: https://youtu.be/bB-OARczPfM
Multiple times he bounced throws on easy plays (both grounders by Manny) that were followed by devastating hits. Thankfully he made up for it with his own offensive barrage.
Pedro was so ridiculous in 1999 and then he was even better in 2000.2000 Nomar/Pedro ran it back, stats-wise
Edit: dammit PiaB
I enjoyed that so much. I was at 3 and 4, and Game 5 is probably my single favorite game of the pre-2004 era.thank you for sharing this. Classic Sportscenter commentary was a bonus.
Yeah, that was awesome. I want to go back and watch 3-5 in full.I enjoyed that so much. I was at 3 and 4, and Game 5 is probably my single favorite game of the pre-2004 era.
This reminded me of a few posts earlier in this thread talking about best Red Sox duos in team history….Yeah, that was awesome. I want to go back and watch 3-5 in full.
Game 4 was also an incredible "surprised by joy" kind of game. It's kind of hard for younger fans to contextualize this now, but the '90s were mostly a pretty bleak time in Boston sports - we certainly never *expected* to win at that point. Since Game 5 of the 1986 WS, the Sox had gone 3-16 in their last 19 postseason games, including 3-7 against what seemed to be a much better Cleveland team. Pedro had been injured in Game 1. Cleveland had Colon, a young stud, on the mound. And then the Sox ERUPTED - every ball seemed to be off the wall or over it. Valentin and his heavy pull swing had an out of body experience. 23 runs in an elimination game. Pure joy and, of course, it set up the scintillating Game 5.Yeah, that was awesome. I want to go back and watch 3-5 in full.
That was awesome. Bring back the real unis for the all-star game.Your old man’s #3 shared his feelings about Nomar: View: https://youtu.be/Fku5SkZq6tI
I'll always regret not buying the Men's pink Pokey shirt that was available in the pro shop for like 2 weeks.Wilfredo
Ugueth
Izzy
(not for good reasons)
for good reasons:
Pokey
That's gotta be one of the greatest televised moments in baseball history. I get chills every time I watch it. Kudos to the announcers for letting the moment speak for itself.Your old man’s #3 shared his feelings about Nomar: View: https://youtu.be/Fku5SkZq6tI
I have never once watched this without crying, including that night in '99 and right fucking now.Your old man’s #3 shared his feelings about Nomar: View: https://youtu.be/Fku5SkZq6tI
I was there and had never seen the clip. I could barely hear Ted over Joe Buck. Age gets all of us, huh?That's gotta be one of the greatest televised moments in baseball history. I get chills every time I watch it. Kudos to the announcers for letting the moment speak for itself.
Same here. He was my hero as a little boy. I wanted to be just like him. I got the swearing part down real good.I have never once watched this without crying, including that night in '99 and right fucking now.
They certainly had some junk on the staff, but it’s worth considering the context. League offense was ridiculous back then, and in that light the Sox had one of the best staffs in the league. Pedro accounted for a lot of it, but not everything. Their offense was actually pretty average, a lot of the apparently good hitting benefitted from park factors and they had absolute black holes in Darren Lewis and the rapidly deteriorating John Valentin, among others.They didn't have enough pitching behind Pedro
The '02 squad was maddening. Two of the best starting pitchers in the game (Lowe was dominant), two of the best hitters in the game and they seemed to just figure out ways to lose.... it was like they had a horrible manager or something....They certainly had some junk on the staff, but it’s worth considering the context. League offense was ridiculous back then, and in that light the Sox had one of the best staffs in the league. Pedro accounted for a lot of it, but not everything. Their offense was actually pretty average, a lot of the apparently good hitting benefitted from park factors and they had absolute black holes in Darren Lewis and the rapidly deteriorating John Valentin, among others.
F Barry Zito and his voters with a rusty swordThe '02 squad was maddening. Two of the best starting pitchers in the game (Lowe was dominant), two of the best hitters in the game and they seemed to just figure out ways to lose.... it was like they had a horrible manager or something....
They started 40-17! I remember thinking at the time that even if they only played .500 ball the rest of the year, they'd win 90+ games, and surely they would play better than .500 the rest of the way.The '02 squad was maddening. Two of the best starting pitchers in the game (Lowe was dominant), two of the best hitters in the game and they seemed to just figure out ways to lose.... it was like they had a horrible manager or something....
I’m confused isn’t 53-52 better than .500 and isn’t 93>90?They started 40-17! I remember thinking at the time that even if they only played .500 ball the rest of the year, they'd win 90+ games, and surely they would play better than .500 the rest of the way.
Narrator: they did not, of course, play better than .500 the rest of the way. They got swept at home by the defending champion D-Backs, and went 53-52 to finish 93-69.
At 4:35 you can see where Ted asks McGwire if he ever smelled wood burn after he fouled one off.Crying in my coffee over the Williams video. Did he ask McGwire if he could smell the burn?
Will go back and look at it. I know he liked to ask it of guys who had great bat speed. Some guys would look back at him like he was crazy!At 4:35 you can see where Ted asks McGwire if he ever smelled wood burn after he fouled one off.
I guess I wasn't clear. Based on the 40-17 start, I figured they were a lock for upper 90s.I’m confused isn’t 53-52 better than .500 and isn’t 93>90?
I distinctly remember Harold Reynolds talking about it afterwards. He said that it was a conversation that took place way above his talent level. Great moment in a clip of great moments. It's insane the talent that was on the field in uniform for that All-Star Game.Will go back and look at it. I know he liked to ask it of guys who had great bat speed. Some guys would look back at him like he was crazy!
Even though Pedro is my favorite athlete of all time, regardless of sport, the only Red Sox jersey I own is #9.Same here. He was my hero as a little boy. I wanted to be just like him. I got the swearing part down real good.
Zito was phenomenal that year. 229.1 innings pitched as well. And of course, it was the W-L record that did it - 23-5. He was absolutely a CYA winning caliber pitcher that year.F Barry Zito and his voters with a rusty sword
Zito : 2.75 ERA, 78 BB, 182 K, 1.134 WHIP
Pitcher B 2.26 ERA, 40 BB, 239 K, 0.923 WHIP
Pitcher C 2.58 ERA, 0.974 WHIP