Chang's career OPS is .629, so he should fit right in.
I know he lacks the iron glove of the rest of our shortstops, but the idea we are waiting for this guy to ride to the franchise's rescue is kind of pathetic.
It's the halfway mark. Where we at?
- Thread starter AB in DC
- Start date
I know he lacks the iron glove of the rest of our shortstops, but the idea we are waiting for this guy to ride to the franchise's rescue is kind of pathetic.
I think Chang is looked at more as a better band-aid and Story as your savior
Yeah he's not going to provide any real improvement on offense, but he's probably not going to be worse either (kind of hard to be worse). So the upgrade at defense is going to be a nice bonus.
Yeah, I don't think anyone is earnestly calling Chang "a savior." I also think anyone who watched Bello have to work around 2 or three David gaffes at shortstop can see the benefits of putting Chang out there over the rent-a-wrecks who've been filling in.
...and Hamilton isn't hitting, either. He's at best a pinch runner at this point...not good.
Yes, exactly. Right now we have bad defense and bad offense. Chang offers a stabilizing defensive floor, with at least some upside with the bat. Story (with his newly rebuilt elbow!) offers more of a complete package.
He will fill one of the glaring holes on this team -- defense at SS, without creating another one.
Probably Arroyo and Hernandez. There might not be a lot of PT in CF. Maybe (but only maybe) Hernandez will hit a bit less shitty if he's playing a position where he hasn't also been shitty. And Arroyo seems to break down after more than a handful of games in a row.
Given Story's arm injury which puts his defense at short as a huge question mark, plus his inability to stay healthy, I'd recommend backing slowly away with a wide-eyed stare at any thought of Story being a savior.
The team will be lucky if he plays at all this year IMO.
Story's defense shouldn't be a question mark. The reason he was throwing poorly was due to his injury, which got fixed (presumably) with the surgery. His glove is superlative.
Plays *at SS* this year, you mean? Seems really pessimistic to think he won't play at all.
What upside with the bat is that? His .515 OPS this season has contributed to the putrid offensive production from shortstop cited earlier. He gave us an OPS of .596 last season. His career is .629. He's bad with the bat. Just because he isn't has been Kike Hernandez or never was David Hamilton doesn't mean there's much upside with him.
When the obituary on this season is written, Bloom's failure to replace injured Story is going to be an important part of the story.
I thought his arm strength had been decreasing for years before this injury, not due to injuries but to overall wearing down.
Honestly I think the best bet is to put him at 2b again where he was superlative.
It's very important to temper expectations. Story is just beginning baseball activities again, he has yet to go through minor league tuning up or face actual pitching IIRC. I don't think the team ought to be counting on him for anything at all this year and should act accordingly.
Long term, I think that is indeed the plan. But if/when he returns this year, putting him at SS probably is better than all of the alternatives.
Cora said this week that he'd be starting a rehab assignment soon. Even if that takes another 10 days to start, and 10 games of rehab, we're looking at early-August at the latest. I would rather see him at 2nd as well, but I believe it was mentioned that this surgery should help him improve his arm strength from what it was.
It may have been discussed elsewhere, but Cora Corathat Turner could see some time at 2b to maximize the offense.
But this could also maximize defense. They could:
Move Duran to left, Hernandez stays in center, and move Yoshida to DH. Or they could put Refsnyder in left and keep Duran in center with Hernandez to the bench against righties.
Doubt that's a long term thing, but interesting that they are thinking that way.
Edit: Sorry for double post.
But this could also maximize defense. They could:
Move Duran to left, Hernandez stays in center, and move Yoshida to DH. Or they could put Refsnyder in left and keep Duran in center with Hernandez to the bench against righties.
Doubt that's a long term thing, but interesting that they are thinking that way.
Edit: Sorry for double post.
Your take sounds pretty pessimistic. As a gauge, spring training lasts about a month. I don't see any reason he should take longer than that.
We'll see.
That's of course assuming no setbacks or tweaks or his catching dengue fever or any other malady that will keep him off the field yet again.
Temper those expectations.
"Failed to replace Story" is bordering on "Ainge bit Rollins" territory.
Hernandez - there was no indication he'd be a butcher at SS.
But he was, so, after 2 weeks Chang (who was signed in February) got (and did) the defensive job.
Then he got hurt. And it was on to Reyes, acquired on May 12.
Then he got hurt.
Or are you suggesting it was a failure to acquire an established major league starting shortstop of tolerable offensive and defensive skills for what they still think will have been a 4-month gig (SJH's pessimism notwithstanding)? If so, I think that's unrealistic.
Because we should be pessimistic. Story has been nothing but injured since coming to Boston; if Bloom has any sense at all he will hope for the best and prepare for the worst. The Red Sox SHOULD be assuming some sort of setback in the recovery from the surgery; oft-injured players don't recover quickly.
Just curious....I don't think caution is unwarranted when a SS is coming back from TJS, (even with the continuous stream of non-setbacks), but at what point in his run of 145-150 games a year did he become "oft-injured"? Are you really saying that just based on last year?
Agree to disagree. Even the oft-injured Chris Sale was able to string together some good starts before hitting the IL again, and Story is not in Sale territory (yet).
I am saying that based on:
- last year (94 games)
- THIS year (zero games)
- and that his arm has been deteriorating for many years by all accounts.
He's nearly 31 years old and he has played 94 games in 18 months. None of this is promising for his future ability to stay on the field.
Guys.....counting on Trevor Story to come back and make something of both the Sox' season and his own is utter folly, it would be like counting on Whitlock to stay healthy in the starting rotation. He has done nothing but get hurt since signing here, and he's coming back from a very serious arm injury. If he sees the field at all then all parties should consider it a win. Until then I'd take all reports on his recovery progress with a large grain of salt.
I honestly think that they should write off this season as a lost one for him and just prepare for 2024. And I honestly think they ought to move him to 2B on a permanent basis starting in 2024 and get themselves a real major league SS. That would maximize both the Sox' chances of winning games AND Story's own production and would alleviate any concerns about his arm strength at SS.
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We all know that any GM worth a damn fields a roster with 5 all-star shortstops on it. Fuck Bloom.
Also, they should have offered Nate Eovaldi more than the Rangers did.
Probably when he got his wrist broken by a fastball which made him "injury prone"
OK, just for argument's sake let's not count on him coming back this year...or let's count on him coming back....I don't see where it makes any difference. Boston is going to do what it's going to do based on what actually develops, not based on our expectations.
The bigger point on the shortstop position, though, is that there's this kid named Mayer, the Sox #1 prospect who's starting to heat up at Portland, and whom we may reasonably expect to land in Boston mid- to late-2024. Boston isn't just going to ignore him and go out and get a "real" MLB shortstop instead, so I don't see where this discussion is going. If anything, Story's (in)ability to come back is going to weigh on the position of 2B next year. If he doesn't heal well, then the Sox will have to decide if they feel comfortable with their current cast of characters at 2B (including Valdez, Yorke, and Reyes), or if they want to get a "real" MLB 2B. I find this issue much more interesting.
I thought Story’s elbow problem was a known risk when the Sox signed him, and was distinct from the hand and heel injuries that sidelined him for portions of the 2022 season. Prior to 2022, Story suffered a thumb injury that cost him about a third of his rookie season (in 2016) but had otherwise been healthy during his major-league career.
Ymmv whether that makes him “injury prone.” I think that’s a dumb label, aside from cases where someone has a chronic injury.
About what I expected. Lineup has been good but not great, bullpen's considerably improved, and the rotation has shown glimpses of being decent but can't stay healthy. The outfield has probably been the biggest surprise IMO, it was an issue last year but has been rather good this year (7th among MLB OFs in WAA). This team looked like a fringe playoff contender coming into the season and that hasn't really changed.
This is fair. I think some guys are inherently more durable than others, IMO Story is in purgatory as far as that goes. Talk to me in a year.
Fair question. Chang hasn’t had a ton of big league success, it’s true. But he has pretty good contact quality peripherals, the same methodology that suggested a few years back that Kiké Hernandez might be worth a flyer in a full-time role.
Replace him with who? Do you see a single player on the first page of this list who wouldn't have cost real assets or even been made available? That's before considering teams out of contention now.
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=20&type=8&season=2023&month=0&season1=2023&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2023-01-01&enddate=2023-12-31&sort=22,d&page=1_30
How about the 2nd page of this list?
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=20&type=8&season=2023&month=0&season1=2023&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2023-01-01&enddate=2023-12-31&sort=22,d&page=2_30
JD Drew's back and hamstring are, for me, the definition of injury prone... He literally could miss a game at any time after "tweaking" one or the other. Still managed to play a lot of very effective games for us, though.
Is Houck getting his face smashed with a line drive the start of his "injury prone career?"
Masslive has first half grades.
Lots of room for quibbling on the grades. For example, Casas at C- seems harsh as it averages out his performance without really factoring in growth, but it's a grade and not a ranking.
Jansen at A- seems... high.
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/07/mlb-notebook-grading-out-the-red-sox-with-a-first-half-report-card.html
Lots of room for quibbling on the grades. For example, Casas at C- seems harsh as it averages out his performance without really factoring in growth, but it's a grade and not a ranking.
Jansen at A- seems... high.
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/07/mlb-notebook-grading-out-the-red-sox-with-a-first-half-report-card.html
This team is across the board so much better than last year’s with the exception of SS and the Story-time at 2B at both defense and offense. Starting pitching is better, bullpen is better.
I don’t know how anyone could think they couldn’t go a few rounds in in the playoffs (if they can get there). They beat good teams.
I don’t know how anyone could think they couldn’t go a few rounds in in the playoffs (if they can get there). They beat good teams.
They're 1-7 against Tampa.
They're barely over .500 and also do things like get swept by the 36-51 Cardinals and the 40-47 Pirates.
I think they are exactly who they appear to be from the numbers: a very very average team in every regard. As Red Sox Stats on Twitter has pointed out, they have not yet put together anything regarding a solid run. They will win 6 in a row and then promptly lose 8 of 9.
Oakland is in town this weekend. The Sox absolutely have no excuses if they don't sweep them easily.
Yeah totally agree on your first two paragraphs - maddingly inconsistent. The rosy side of things is if they do put together a solid run a la the Phillies last year (who were 46-43 at nearly the same point) is I like the pitching vibes a lot more right now than I did at this point last season, probably just recency bias with the outings from Bello and Paxton.
Minor quibble in grand scheme of things, but isn't your last statement a bit hyperbolic? The As won their last two series (against crap teams I should note), took a game against both the Yanks and Blue Jays before that...split a 4 game set with tampa a few weeks ago, and won a series vs the Braves at the end of may. I get that they suck, but to expect an easy 3 game sweep seems over the top - especially since due to injuries Sox are starting Bernardino tonight and TBD sunday.
Oakland is a dreadful team, historically awful in fact.
I am simply saying that for the folks here who think this team could actually do some damage this season, the Oakland series will be an interesting view. If the Sox don't sweep them, or even worse lose two of three, I think we can safely put to rest any notion of this team being quality this season. If the excuse is that the starting rotation is in shambles, that's even more of a reason to dismiss any thoughts of a postseason run for these guys.
I am simply saying that for the folks here who think this team could actually do some damage this season, the Oakland series will be an interesting view. If the Sox don't sweep them, or even worse lose two of three, I think we can safely put to rest any notion of this team being quality this season. If the excuse is that the starting rotation is in shambles, that's even more of a reason to dismiss any thoughts of a postseason run for these guys.
If they sweep them that would be a good sign, yes. It would also mean winning 5 of 6. Which is something they have struggled with this season: maintaining a longer run of good play.
Rooting for a sweep. Both because I am a fan and because happy SJH is more fun than that other guy.
