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Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by JCizzle, Feb 8, 2018.
That's always been my impression as well
I heard him on tv last night basically saying IT got medically mismanaged and that’s causing a ripple effect throughout the league. Maybe he meant to say other players FEEL IT got bad advice, but the way he said it was pretty much just stating it as fact.
I don’t know the extent of his inner circle access, but even if he has good sources with nba players, I don’t think that means too much as far as getting medical record access.
Of course if there is an injury, a player is allowed to play, and then things get worse it looks bad from the outside. But it’s a big leap to just say the wrong thing was done as Windhorst basically did. He doesn’t have a clue what he is talking about so probably should frame his wording and argument a little differently.
In the radio piece on XM86 he DID word it differently in saying that players around the league were questioning whether he got bad advice which I believe I mentioned about a week ago here. It sounds like he got caught up in all of it so who knows.
IT is having arthroscopic surgery on his right hip tomorrow per CBS sports.
Will be a clean up procedure to remove all the broken off cartilage and debris, smooth out whatever is left of the labrum and cartilage.
He’s done for the year I’m sure but I assume he will find someone to give him a 1 year make-good contract.
The article goes onto say Lakers have an interest if him *if* the big names fall through--Lebron, Paul George, etc.
Feel bad for the little guy; he's had a really bad year after a great season in Boston. I'm a little embarrassed by other posters on here who have seemingly found a great deal of glee in his struggles.
Back up that brinks... in the opposite direction
4/27 is tough to pass up when you were a 2nd round pick but he really needed to be a FA 2 years ago. Probably going year to year from here on out.
people booed Keith Foulke when he struggled in 2005.
This. Its a bad look imho.
IT’s injury and Kyries surgery have very little to do with each other in terms of what it means for the difference between being injured and being hurt.
I guess they both take place in an hospital environment. But I think that’s what @radsoxfan has been trying to convey.
Probably quite a bit of overlap with the people who seem to be enjoying IT's injury.
Keith Foulke was a champion who gave everything he had and destroyed his body to deliver the first title in 86 years. IT... played hard for 2.5 years and was openly talking about how the team had to break the bank to re-sign him? This is comparing apples and orangutans.
Uhhh ...... where to begin with this one?
So IT, who played through pain and through the death of his sister and actively recruited key free agents such as Horford and Hayward isn't worthy of love. Simply because the Cs couldn't get past Lebron James and, if they somehow had, would have likely been slaughtered by the Warriors. All because he wanted to get paid for his production.
Some fans don't deserve the players and teams they get to follow.
Isn't the real issue that he has femoroacetabular impingement and a labral tear? Can a minimally invasive surgery address either of those?
Inquiring minds want to know.
It doesn't necessarily have to be one or the other; the brinks truck stuff rubbed many people the wrong way, and it's ok to both miss and feel for him, because when he was here he was an awesome team mate and Boston champion, as well as think to that post and the talk around it and wish he'd never done it.
I dont know they seem like more or less the very same situation.
I take zero joy in ITs struggles and I would absolutely prefer to see him become a beast for the Lakers than to see his career fizzle.
I really don't understand the hate that IT gets for his "back up the truck" line. Most players want to maximize their income during their short careers, and most around here understand that. But when IT is candid and colorful about the same goal that usually goes without criticism here, he gets slammed. He left it all on the court every night last year, sparked many a dramatic comeback and came back with a seriously bad hip right after his sister's funeral. That's not enough to win you over? Hearts of stone around here, I say.
Like slamminsammya, I'd even wish him well in a Lakers uniform, but I'r rather see him succeed on a different team.
His general issue is impingement, and that leads to labral tearing and eventually cartilage loss. It’s a progressive degenerative condition that can sometimes be intervened on early, but Isaiah is pretty clearly already towards the end of the spectrum.
At this point his labrum is toast and his cartilage is probably not far behind. They can clean debris out and smooth things down, but fixing his residual labrum isn’t going to really be of much use unfortunately.
Edit: to answer your question more simply, it can but it’s most likely too late to matter
I understand why IT's "Brinks truck" comment rubbed folks the wrong way, even if I don't agree with them. His desire to be paid market for his production shouldn't piss people off - he was vastly underpaid for what he did while in Boston so, to me, it was entirely understandable for him to want to be compensated commensurate with his performance. In hindsight, its unfortunate but at the time, it wasn't unreasonable, even for a flawed player like him (hint, most NBA players are flawed in some way or another).
That said, people are pretty dismissive of what he did for the Celtics and I have a problem with that. His defensive shortcomings aside, the guy was a top five offensive player last season, helped rebuild the team's culture and clearly loved playing for the Celtics/Boston. I don't get what more he could have done aside from being a foot taller, being a 100% healthy and singlehandedly beating both Cleveland and Golden State. Of course that is asking the impossible so I would really like to hear what the guy did to cause some fans to delight in his demise. To me, Thomas's off-season and regular season is one of the saddest stories in the NBA this year.
Agreed, even though it's a pretty crowded field. It feels like a particularly injury ridden year for star players. More than a third of the players from last year's all star teams will miss 20+ games this year (Hayward, Leonard, Irving, Love, Millsap, IT, Wall, Cousins, Curry, Butler), which seems ridiculous. And that's not even counting some other big name guys who've missed lots of time (Paul, Fultz, Griffin, Porzingis, Gobert, Conley, Booker). Seriously, wtf.
Could it be that a lot of people don't really know or even particularly care about the story or history of players and for the most part root for the Celtics at all costs?
From that point of view the Celtics traded a player at the right time and academically seeing that player fail after the trade means 'the Celtics did good' with little more thought or humanity put into it than that?
Edit : I am not saying that is my POV but in today's America low information tribalism based on zero sum thinking (if they lose we won!) Is fairly common.
To be clear IT was great and did a lot for the Celts. It was just always painfully obvious that they couldn’t win a title with him and he though he was better than he was (you probably have to think that when you are his height and succeed in the NBA). But the brinks truck thing, in combination with the tribute video thing, did leave a sour taste in my mouth. He helped bring the Celts back to relevance, no doubt, and we have to thank him for that. He’s kind of like Bledsoe and the Pats except Bledsoe was here for 9 years.
Maybe not the Lakers...
You understand how Isaiah rubbed people the wrong way then go on to say that you don't understand why people are rubbed the wrong way by him.
Brady has taken less for the good of the Pats, Pierce took a less than max deal for the good of the Celtics, KG waived his no-trade clause to go to Brooklyn and not kill the Ainge deal.....Isaiah essentially secured his future as a non-Celtics by repeating his "Brinks Truck" comments on multiple occasions (I'll go to my grave knowing that Ainge is NEVER paying Isaiah anything close to what would necessitate a BT) and you wonder why people don't shed a tear for someone who put on the façade that he was all about Boston? You sir have been duped....Isaiah Thomas cared about one thing and one thing only and that was getting Paid by anyone willing to CTC (cut the check *sheed)! He said it himself.
Ainge's quote at the time speaks volumes. Notice a trend?
People are complex. Saying a colorful equivalent of "I would like to be paid" does not make it a facade and it is possible to simultaneously want money and care about other things.
I am not sure why you bolded some boilerplate GM quotes from Ainge there either.
You can want all you want.....you don't publicly call out your boss to pay you a contract that that is unheard of for a sub-5 foot 11 guard not named Chris Paul. Ainge was right, it was a funny comment.....until he actually meant it. Imagine any of us in the real world doing that? Isaiah got what he deserved in being traded. I feel bad about his injury essentially ending his career but I don't feel bad one bit about him being traded as a throw-in for Kyrie.
I bolded the pretty nice words Ainge had to say about Isaiah....and Avery....and Jae. He loved them all as a way to use them as assets to get to the next level. He was never paying Isaiah BT money was the point.
For context, here’s the comment itself (at least one time he said it):
"How to best address upcoming FA" (even though his is RFA his address of it is perfect) by Zach LaVine:
No calling out your boss to pay you the max. No declaration that you are a max player and will only sign for the max. Very classy and calculated.
The part that I find insane is that every reporter is searching out quotes regarding Isaiah's FA this summer and they keep using the term "cap space"......don't all the teams have a veteran minimum slot? #dirty
Hating on IT because of his bad defense or The Brinks Truck comment is ridiculous. That comment is more than balanced out by the fact he played on a bad hip right after his sister was killed. I think people really need to think about that one a bit harder before jumping down his throat for wanting to be paid.
I'm glad he was traded, as even if healthy he wasn't going to have a long term future here for a number of reasons. But he was a key part of the Celtics return from the depths of post KG/PP trade era, won some games for the team, and was fun to watch to boot. As a fan, I'm not sure we can ask for more. I wish him nothing but success in the future.
To clarify, I don't get why the Brinks truck comment outweighs all of the great stuff Thomas did while in Boston - at a bargain deal for the team given his production.
And I have not been duped. I tend to believe that its unreasonable to expect athletes to take below market deals given how relatively short their careers are and how quickly an injury can dramatically affect their earnings potential. We are seeing this exact issue with IT now. Citing the Brady and Pierce examples ignores quite a bit of unique context including the fact that both players had significant earnings during their careers as well as other sponsorship deals that provided them with the luxury of helping their teams.
That said, you may not intend to come off this way but you appear to be giddy that your prediction of ITs demise is being realized. That is your prerogative of course.
However your standard for athletes to simply shut up and allow ownership, which is always looking for their Brinks Truck too (as they should), to do with them as they see fit - even if its against the players interests - strikes me as misguided.
anyone who didn't love Isaiah every time he took the court for us doesn't like sports very much (or isn't a Celtics fan). His efforts for the team when, ya know, playing ballgames, ought to count 10x as much as any BS drama you could concoct from off-the-court. Hell, his efforts in recruiting all-stars to play for our talent-barren team alone ought to far outweigh the drama.
His obscene overconfidence in himself and his game is (A) typical for pro athletes and (B) particularly so for players who are perceived as lacking the physical characteristics to succeed in their sport - ask one Tom Brady about that. He could have gone full rock-star diva off the court and it wouldn't change what he did for us the last two years and particularly in last year's playoffs, not one iota.
With few exceptions I root for the laundry and while I hate to see injury derail any athlete it is a part of sports so anything that happens post-trade to Isaiah or most any other ex-Celtic doesn't move me much. IT had some great regular season moments here and a few in the post-season in his last year. Overall I never saw him as part of our championship future as he'd be well past his prime by then but yes, he did some great things while in a Boston uniform.
A player is certainly welcome to speak his mind but must do so while accepting the consequences of doing so publicly. Without the hip injury Isaiah surely would have signed a market deal for a 5-8 guard about to turn 30. I agree with Ainge that a Brinks truck comment for a player such as this is "funny." He probably thought IT was joking until he realized he wasn't.
What exactly did IT accomplish as a Celtic that is deserving of praise? He's kinda like Antoine Walker, really.
IT carried the team into the playoffs two years in a row, and his monster year in 2016-2017 (29 ppg) got the Celtics a division title and home court advantage in the East (without which, they never get by Washington). He bled his career out on the floor.
As far as I am concerned, that earned him as many Brinks comments as he wants. Just because he wants to get paid never meant that that Celtics would pay him. Nothing but love for Tiny II.
He had a 29 PPG, top 5 MVP season and led the Celtics to their first ECF appearance since the Big 3 days as a 5'9'' guard. I know we don't hang banners for ECF appearances in Boston but give the guy some credit.
I am learning a lot about people in this thread.
Yeah this is a perfect summary of my feelings. There's always going to be a special place for those who raise banners, but if we can't appreciate other special seasons then that kinda sucks. What he accomplished was one of the most unexpected things I can remember and he did it all while embracing the city and fighting through some of the toughest personal stuff possible.
In addition to all of his accomplishments, I believe that IT first made his Brinks Truck comment in summer of 2016, when people like Evan Turner was getting $70MM contracts. http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/boston-celtics/thomas-contract-they-better-bring-out-brinks-truck.
And frankly, I also thought the whole thing was humorous, particularly the custom slides.
For two years, especially considering his physical limitations, IT was must-see TV. He literally left it all (including his teeth) on the court for the Cs. Yes, they weren't building a championship team with him as their best player and yes, I'm glad they got Kyrie, but it seems to me that I watch sports so I can see and root for guys like IT.
Let's also not lose sight of HOW he did it. The guy was unstoppable on the offensive side, with a knack for clutch shots especially in the 4th. He had game-winners. He played with a lot of emotion. It was fucking FUN to watch him, he made the Celtics fun for the first time (in my view) since the Billy King trade.
Nobody is proposing that we build him a statue outside of the Garden, but if he didn't make you happy as a fan, I'd like to understand why you watch basketball. None of us sit around until October asking "hey, did the Red Sox win the world series this year?" and upon being told yes or no, are then happy or sad, once a year. We're in for the journey, for the players, for the excitement. IT4 brought all of that, just about everything you could want as a fan, other than beating Lebron or GS.
That's all great but that puts him right in line with Antoine Walker. When you look at the Celtics franchise history, he's a footnote.
Can not say it any better than this. What's with all the vitriol? The last three seasons before this one were all increasingly exhilarating, shocking, and fun; a trend which correlated with IT's rise to stardom here. Why does anyone feel the need to rip him out of that part of history just because he doesn't play here anymore? My God, less than 11 months ago he put up 53 points in a playoff game wearing green.
Someone said it upthread: it's not a zero-sum game. The Kyrie trade was clearly the right decision, but to me the choice between remembering IT fondly for what he did and continuing to root for his success, and bending over backwards to marginalize his accomplishments and generally be Angry about a very inoffensive situation is just so easy. So easy! IT is fucking awesome, just let it be so.
Isnt the Brinks truck comment because of exactly what we are seeing? He gave his all every night. He knew that it could mean a serious injury that would destroy his career. He wanted to make his money while the body held up. And he wont, because it didnt.
Unfortunately the Brinks truck was 1 year too late.
The dude emerged as a legit star during his time here and likely contributed to Horford and Hayward’s decision to sign with the team. IT made the Celtics relevant to other players around the league.
He deserves a shit ton of praise from all who root for this team.
Also, Antoine Walker was awesome too.
Wasn't the hip issue already there before that night he was landed on under the basket?
Radsox can comment on this better but was the Brinks Truck the equivalent of Trump buiilding a wall? What I mean by that is had Isaiah hit FA in the Evan Turner/Meyers Leonard offseason would he have passed a teams physical upon signing that deal with his hip condition?