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Hanley DFA'd (5/25 Update)

Discussion in 'Red Sox Forum' started by Pozo the Clown, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. Sampo Gida

    Sampo Gida lurker

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    Pretty sure he means Mookie must take his regular season awesomeness into the post season. The team has underperformed in the postseason offensively the past two seasons. Its not uncommon with young players trying to do too much on the big stage facing good pitchers
     
  2. sean1562

    sean1562 Member SoSH Member

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    Devers has a better ALDS than Hanley last year
     
  3. keninten

    keninten lurker

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    Yup, I think you`re right. Shocked me just to hear Mookie needs to do more. Context matters.
     
  4. lapa

    lapa lurker

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    What I want to know is physically what happens to say a player is 'cooked'

    I mean late last season and early here he was hitting pretty good. JBJ and vaz aren't hitting for shit now

    Are we talking a long shitty run plus age or he's physically snapped in some way so what he can't swing like he did just a few months ago? His eyes have gone ?

    Signs of decline were there of course but it feels like it happened quite quickly from more than acceptable to DFA - yeah I know the contract issue was in the background

    I guess I've seen this 'cooked' comment before and I know hitting is hard so maybe it's just losing the hand eye coordination at speed or ?
     
  5. lapa

    lapa lurker

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    Thank you! This is what I meant when I was also surprised at the post you replied to. Regardless of how his performance tailed off or the contract he was given I don't understand why anyone would go with the good riddance, 3 useless years thing, that just felt weird and inappropriate
     
  6. lapa

    lapa lurker

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    544
    Huh?
    OR it could be that they discussed it with him and he said he wasn't interested in a bench role, understands the contract issue, was thankful for the opportunity and said it's probably best for the team to fill the roles with other players get his own contract off he books and maybe let him find another opportunity elsewhere. In other words maybe he was a very mature and important veteran presence in the clubhouse

    Or?
    Guess we just don't know.....
     
  7. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    I meant step up in the post-season. Mookie’s hitting in his two post seasons, small sample size as it is, wasn’t up to his regular season hitting. He may be a very different hitter now though and hopefully rakes to the max. And Ted was hurt.

    Edit, I should read the whole thread before responding. Sample explained my point. Damn spell checker, Sampo.
     
    #557 Al Zarilla, May 26, 2018
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  8. dhappy42

    dhappy42 Straw Man

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    Let’s say the pitcher is a lefty.
     
  9. Average Reds

    Average Reds Dope Staff Member Dope V&N Mod SoSH Member

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    You are gloating over suggesting that Pedroia needs to be DFA’ed?
     
  10. Average Reds

    Average Reds Dope Staff Member Dope V&N Mod SoSH Member

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    I don’t understand the extremes of reaction in this thread.

    This is not the move I would have made if I were the one in the hot seat, but (and I say this as someone who loved Hanley) I have zero problem with it.

    I can see how portions of the CHB article quoted here resonate with some, but on the whole, it makes me want to throw up. It’s all about the myth of clutchness based on one postseason series. (The ultimate small sample size.) And among the substantive criticisms of other Sox players, he includes the fact that they are soft millennials, which is about as lazy as it gets.

    I’m also a bit curious about the vitriol that some have aimed at Hanley. Nothing in his tenure with the Sox gives an indication that he was (or would have become) a bad teammate. The simple fact is that the DFA was driven by his vesting option. It’s cold, but necessary given the financial box the Sox find themselves in. That doesn’t make Hanley “a bum” or a bad teammate. It makes him a victim of a bad contract combined with underperformance.
     
  11. judyb

    judyb Member SoSH Member

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    They wouldn't have had to DFA him to avoid the option vesting if they didn't expect playing him less to make him a problem, they might not be right about that, but why do that instead of something else to activate Pedroia, and at least try playing Hanley less for a while first?
     
  12. Trotski

    Trotski Member SoSH Member

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    The right handed power will likely come from the AL homerun leader and a guy who hit 45 last year.
     
  13. Average Reds

    Average Reds Dope Staff Member Dope V&N Mod SoSH Member

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    You might be right. Or, it might be that the team did not want to be in a position where playing decisions were being explicitly being driven by contract vesting, which is frowned upon by players generally. So they pulled the trigger now.
     
  14. The Red Industry

    The Red Industry lurker

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    How is he a victim of a bad contract? I wish I had 88 million weighing me down while I provided negative value to my job.
     
  15. Kenny F'ing Powers

    Kenny F'ing Powers posts 18% useful shit

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    Yeah. He really should give the money back. I dont know why players sign for so much, they're not worth it. If I was an all star player, I'd ask for a $60k salary with benefits.
     
  16. southshoresoxfan

    southshoresoxfan Member SoSH Member

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    I’d hold out for a generous 401k match myself
     
  17. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I don't know if I'd call him a victim, but if his option for 2019 was for 7 million, he would have never been DFA. Kinda like if Rusney Castillo made 1-2 mil a year instead of 12, he'd potentially be on the Boston Redsox instead of Pawtucket. Even more so last year, since this year he's kinda sucking again, but like always, is hitting well vs lefties.
     
  18. Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat

    Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat has big, douchey shoulders Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    How many weeks vacation?
     
  19. Kenny F'ing Powers

    Kenny F'ing Powers posts 18% useful shit

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    I'd be playing baseball for several months, that is my vacation! I'd cover for Tom Werner while HE went on vacation.
     
  20. judyb

    judyb Member SoSH Member

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    But he gave them a really good baseball reason to play him less by hitting worse than their other 1B and DH options, and their other DH option helped by fielding worse than their other OF options.Releasing him to prevent his option from vesting looks at least as bad as playing him less would have, maybe worse.
     
  21. dhellers

    dhellers Member SoSH Member

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    * The season starts and the new TB12'ized HanRam is raking. Vesting concerns-- let it happen if he keeps this up!
    * A vicious hit on the wrist, taking him out of the game and making this viewer wonder if he would be back in a month or more
    * He comes back a few days later! ... and
    * Except for a few games here and there, is not productive

    I have to wonder it there is a real injury he is trying to tough out, but isn't good enough to overcome.
     
  22. Infield Infidel

    Infield Infidel teaching korea american SoSH Member

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    Yeah, I think it's a combo of them needing to free up a spot and thinking he won't get better, and him not wanting to play part time. A platoon would have him at roughly 200-250 PAs the rest of the way (figuring 2 starts against lefties per week, plus a games' worth of PH per week), keeping pretty well under the threshold.
     
  23. terrynever

    terrynever Member SoSH Member

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    With most AL teams carrying 13 pitchers, that leaves room for nine position players and three bench players. The game has evolved to the point where those three bench players need to be versatile and play at least three positions. Like Brock Holt has shown us.

    Money aside, just the lack of versatility must have hurt Hanley. Cora wants a bench he can use for defense and base running, too
     
  24. Average Reds

    Average Reds Dope Staff Member Dope V&N Mod SoSH Member

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    Is it really that hard to understand that I was talking about his DFA and not making an abstract statement?

    Mindlessly stupid responses like these are why I spend less and less time in the Red Sox forum. Do better.
     
  25. InsideTheParker

    InsideTheParker Member SoSH Member

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    Thanks, Terry, that is very likely what Cora meant when he said HR wasn't a bench player. Also, I don't think HR would be happy playing that role.
     
  26. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    Although, ironically, since Terry made that very reasonable post 40 minutes ago, NY just did the exact opposite, optioning their utility infielder Torreyes to AAA in favor of a backup 1B/DH whose value is mostly in his ability to hit lefties (Austin).
     
  27. judyb

    judyb Member SoSH Member

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    I actually was thinking they might option Velazquez or trade or DFA Brian Johnson and try going with12 pitchers for at least a few games to see if having both Steven Wright and Velazquez or Johnson in the pen to eat up innings could make up for carrying 1 less pitcher. Having all 3 of those 6th starter types in the pen seems like as much of a wasted roster spot as a bat only platoon bench player.
     
  28. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    They have 12 pitchers. Your move would drop it to 11 and that is not happening
     
  29. Buzzkill Pauley

    Buzzkill Pauley Member SoSH Member

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    Hanley would have 22 million reasons not to be happy as a bench bat, and he’d be one who couldn’t be used as a pinch-runner or defensive replacement, and whose 2018 numbers show relatively poor production against power pitchers (63 OPS+ in 2018), in late-and-close situations (57 OPS+), and versus relief pitchers (63 OPS+).

    That said, this move still makes me sad. Emotionally speaking, I would have much preferred sending Nunez to the DL to rest his knee.
     
  30. judyb

    judyb Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah, I forgot they sent Poyner down.
     
  31. dhappy42

    dhappy42 Straw Man

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    The Millennials crack was especially stupid. My question upthread about who you’d rather have at bat (facing, say, Sabbathia, Chad Green or Chapman) in game 6 of a playoff game probably looks like a “myth of clutchiness” thing, but its more about the Sox needing a HR threat off the bench. (Dating myself,) I’m thinking Bernie Carbo. A lefty like Carbo might be better, but the Sox have plenty of bats-left in the lineup and on the bench. A strict L/R platoon with Moreland at first would have preserved a left and right power pinch hitter option, with Hanley getting the short end of the stick. Cora seems to think Hanley would have sulked in that role. Seems to me that Hanley has risen to the occasion when he’s had something to prove. Cora is in the clubhouse and I’m not, so he’d know better. I still think the decision was about the vesting option, which makes Shaughnessy right, even if he’s right in an assholeish CHB way.
     
  32. Kenny F'ing Powers

    Kenny F'ing Powers posts 18% useful shit

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    I was critiquing the shitty poster attacking your post. Maybe if you posted here more lately you'd have recognized the sarcasm.
     
  33. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  34. Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat

    Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat has big, douchey shoulders Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    It really wasn't very hard to recognize.
     
  35. Kenny F'ing Powers

    Kenny F'ing Powers posts 18% useful shit

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    I didnt think so. I'm pretty simple.
     
  36. Savin Hillbilly

    Savin Hillbilly loves the secret sauce SoSH Member

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    I was behind the curve on this. You're right, 10 of 15 AL teams are going with a 13 pitcher/12 position roster right now. This blows my mind a bit. I thought 12 pitchers was kind of the extreme that we weren't ever going to exceed.

    Three bench players -- considering one of them has to be a catcher -- seems exceedingly stripped-down. There's no margin for error for things like injuries after substitutions there. Is there any way this trend doesn't end in 26-man rosters?
     
  37. DanoooME

    DanoooME Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Yes, the owners won't allow it without a major concession from the players' union.
     
  38. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    You realize we have plenty of times to add to the roster before any potential game 6 of the ALCS right?
     
  39. curly2

    curly2 Member SoSH Member

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    The Hanley news, combined with seeing the shell of a player formerly known as Albert Pujols and knowing he has three more years and $87 million more coming to him AFTER this season, makes me realize again how lucky the Sox were never having to give out a huge contract -- in years or dollars -- to David Ortiz.

    Even if he had fallen off a cliff at some point, they wouldn't have been in bad shape.

    Constantly resigning Papi short term was like picking out a brand new Mercedes, offering 500 bucks for it, and having the salesperson accept it with no haggling.
     
  40. Hawk68

    Hawk68 lurker

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    In theory I understand your case.

    In practice any player would rather have $72.5M/5years and be in minors than $10M/5 years and be in MLB.
     
  41. terrynever

    terrynever Member SoSH Member

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    Very ironic! Maybe this is why Torres also got plenty of games in the minors at short and third.
     
  42. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah, but I still bet he wishes he was in the Majors. Not enough to terminate his contract, though. I'm sure he's not all that happy about playing in Pawtucket but he's being the good $$$oldier.

    The guys aren't robots and still have feelings and stuff.
     
  43. grimshaw

    grimshaw the new rudy SoSH Member

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    I was surprised there were that many too - but I think it's partially because most teams don't have full time DH's anymore so they can rotate guys in for "rest" days.

    I wouldn't be shocked if the Sox went with 13 at some point given that they don't pinch hit much and have all positions covered between Holt and Nunez.
     
  44. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    I was thinking that there would seem to be very easy contractual terms that owners could negotiate to mitigate the risk of a player falling off a cliff performance wise (not injury) but they never seem to do it. I wonder if they will start doing this.
     
  45. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    That and other teams have their own versions of Holt and Nunez. It seems there are more super subs (maybe even out of necessity from carrying 13 pitchers) now than the last 2 decades, but I could be completely wrong.
     
  46. grimshaw

    grimshaw the new rudy SoSH Member

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    I think there is no question that is how things are trending. And Cora talked a lot about how much more flexibility the roster would have now which is something he values.
     
  47. MtPleasant Paul

    MtPleasant Paul lurker

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    Speaking of Bernie Carbo, the Red Sox got rid of him in 1978 when they were also on a great early season run. They could have used him in the playoff game when they were forced into the "Here comes Bailey, here comes Gossage" situation. Here's hoping history doesn't repeat itself with Holt or Swihart or Leon assuming the Bob Bailey role.
     
  48. grimshaw

    grimshaw the new rudy SoSH Member

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    Hanley had a good and a bad post season here. He wasn't good in 2016 after his best season and was great last year after being benched for game one for extreme ineffectiveness down the stretch. There is just no predictor of future success, especially from small sample sizes. If there is some hidden metric, then we can lick our chops at Sandy Leon's 4 for 8 last year and Holt's 4 for 10 in 2016.

    I know you're being somewhat tongue and cheek and you're using a fun anecdote, but if bench depth or "lineup spot X" is really an issue, then DD will be his usual stone cold assassin to address it.
     
    #598 grimshaw, May 27, 2018
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
  49. lapa

    lapa lurker

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    This is a good question but are there union rules or some shit against it. Probably the reason why it's not in place - performance related perks is because the players and agents might start wanting to specify big cuts when they outplay their contract. That's why I think in general owners and teams should suck it. For every pujols trotting out there for a gazillion dollars worth of shit there are plenty of young players racking up WAR at ten cents on the dollar. Where is the clamor in general for more generic contracts with performance related clauses AT BOTH ENDS. I'd suggest that the smiling faces and big boats owned by your typical MLB owner indicates they're doing ok.
     
  50. lapa

    lapa lurker

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    I know you guys over there get twitchy about the commies but how great if contracts were all more generic ( but still tiered by market worth ) and instead were layered with incentives at each end so your team isn't forced to eat millions of dollars of sunk cost but also can't take the piss out of young players with HoF performance

    It's not going to happen of course
     

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