General Playoff Thread: The Long 2nd Season
- Thread starter ElUno20
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Agreed overall, though I think Toronto gives Cleveland a harder time if Valanciunas isn't hurt too badly. Kyle Lowry was great this game - I hope he is back. Toronto is fun to root for and I know I speak for other C's fans when I say its a joy to see him taking down Wade. My only problem is that though Wade is a good player, Toronto's defense seems to fold every time he makes a move to the basket. Wade never gets the looks he had this game if defenders move their feet.
I don't know about whether Draymond Green gets away with anything but aside from Lillard, Aminu has been brilliant tonight.
Lillard is my favorite non Celtic. Has been since I saw him against the Cs in Stevens first year and he cemented his place with me in that monster playoff series against Houston.
They literally had to have a five second mute on ESPN so they didn't catch the expletives that were coming out of his mouth after being whistled for a foul.
Is Lillard the worst All star snub ever?
Lillard has got to be the 2nd most entertaining player in the league
That said Draymond put up a Larryesque effort tonight
Can't remember such a great game as a loss other than Jordans 63 in 86 and Barkleys Game 2 Finals in 93
(admittedly strong recency bias hyperbole in effect)
That said Draymond put up a Larryesque effort tonight
Can't remember such a great game as a loss other than Jordans 63 in 86 and Barkleys Game 2 Finals in 93
(admittedly strong recency bias hyperbole in effect)
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Green had a great game but he was left open on a lot of 3-pointers by design. Not sure this game belongs in that sort of company.
I've said this since Barnes was at UNC.......he's Jeff Green. He'll get paid by someone this summer and he'll underachiever wherever he ends up. A complete tease.
The cavs would have swept the raptors anyway. Lowry, because of injury and being Lowry, and derozan have been awful.
Miami will at least put up a scrap on the way to being smacked up.
My angst was mostly borne out of my hatred for the Heat. Clearly, nobody left can contest the Cavs before the Spurs/Warriors smack them around in 5.
Talk about a lucky franchise. Is Wade the only player in the franchise history to be drafted by the Heat and make an All Star team or the All NBA team while playing for the Heat?
Barnes clearly doesn't play as well as most of us would expect but comparing him to Jeff Green isn't fair. Barnes is a far better player than Green in virtually every aspect of the game - its not even close. JA's observation that he doesn't step up as the second or third option is the same complaint that Warriors fans (and I suspect some in the organization) have had over his time in a Golden State uniform. Setting aside expectations, if you look at his numbers, the guy is generally an efficient scorer who can hit from deep, a good rebounder and an adequate defender. He fits the Warriors scheme very well and I think they will try to retain him. That said, anyone expecting him to see him step up to be a second or third star is going to be sorely disappointed. He seems to be a decent player who has no desire and limited skills to be an alpha dog.
Preach. Lowry has clearly been hurting and it hampered him until yesterday's game so they needed Valanciunas for his scoring and rebounding. I don't hate the Heat overall - just D(irty)-Wade and their bandwagon fans - but if they bounce Toronto at least we'll get the satisfaction of LeBron rubbing his move back to the 'Land back in their faces.
Well, he has in the past, especially during last year's title run, it seemed like there were 4 or 6 minute crucial stretches where he'd carry the team fairly often. With Green taking on more of the scoring load, there are even fewer chances for this when the big three are playing, but if you want to be paid like a max guy, last night was exhibit #1 of when to step up.
Didn't watch the game but many here in Canada are referring to Wade as being a classless, ignorant jerk. They say that while the Canadian anthem was being played, he continued to shoot baskets while everyone else was behaving like you would expect. Did anyone see this?
Ok, let's take a closer look without expectations in play and see how much better. Here are the numbers of each player while starting and playing in the shadow of megastars during their 4th season and contract year when one year apart in age. Which set belongs to whom?
PER 12.3 - 12.9
TS% 56 - 54
Reb% 8.6 - 8.8
Ast% 7.8 - 7.2
Stl% 1.1 - 1.0
PPG 11.7 - 13.3
RPG 4.9 - 4.8
Wasn't this the identical criticism of Green when he was on his way out at OKC and why the Thunder choose not to retain him when up against the luxury tax line? Barnes production is limited by his role in Oakland in a somewhat similar way that Ray Allen and Kevin Love's numbers are limited by the role they played in Boston and Cleveland. You don't need to pay premium value for role player level production (Allen's was different as we needed him to convince KG to come here).....which isn't the players fault it is the system that they are in.
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Knowing Miami's luck, LeBron will tear his ACL or something in Game 1.
Yup. Clearly shooting jumpers while everyone else was lined up. The lesson, as always, is that Dwyane Wade is a giant douche.
PER? And just comparing single seasons (when any number of factors might have influenced either guys numbers)? Ok, I will play:
FG% - Barnes', current season vs Green's fourth season: Barnes' 46.6% to Green's 44.9%
3P% - Barnes', current season vs Green's fourth season: Barnes' 38.3% to Green's 30.3%
Offensive Rating - Barnes', current season vs Green's fourth season: Barnes' 114 to Green's 108
Defensive Rating- Barnes' current season vs Green's fourth season: Barnes' 107 to Green's 108
BPM - Barnes' current season vs Green's fourth season: Barnes' -0.2 to Green's -0.8
VORP -Barnes' current season vs Green's fourth season: Barnes' 0.9 to Green's 0.7
Barnes is a better offensive player than Green by a wide margin and if you look at their stats through both their first four years he is generally better defensively too. To clarify, I generally agree with you that he isn't deserving of a max deal and that, given his athleticism and length, he should be better than he is. However, unlike Green, he is pretty good offensive player who has the ability to help a team with a wide range of offensive tools. Green had no such tools - he was generally atrocious from beyond the three point line. There really is no comparison.
Yup. I think they'll be raising a banner in SA in November. They counter punch as well as any team I've seen in a long time.
Total OKC domination from the Thunder in the 4th. 40 for Durant. This series will probably go the distance.
I think it still ends in 6 but hell of a quarter by OKC. And Westbrook has played pretty poorly for the most part. I hope we get a Game 7.
Westbrook has 15 assists. The Thunder play best when he's assisting, not scoring.
He shot 5-18 and is shooting 33% for the series on high volume. I agree that OKC is better when he's in creator mode but he is fully capable of doing both. Obviously, they can't beat the Spurs when he's in chucker mode like he was in Game 3.
But OKC won this game because 1) KD is awesome and 2) their bench actually produced for once.
Eh, but Westbrook (15) had more assists than the Spurs (12). Re: the bench -- how about that Dion Waiters? 17 points on 7-11 shooting. And 3 assists! Waiters Island isn't as isolated as it once was....
Every time I pump up the Spurs, they have an off game and when I rip on a guy (Waiters), he tends to do well.
In other news, it hasn't gotten much play but you have to wonder about Duncan's status. 4 points in the last 3 games and he's starting to finally look like an old man. Maybe he's fine hanging on as a bit player but it's getting kind of depressing to watch. I don't ever want to see Papi/Brady like this.
In other news, it hasn't gotten much play but you have to wonder about Duncan's status. 4 points in the last 3 games and he's starting to finally look like an old man. Maybe he's fine hanging on as a bit player but it's getting kind of depressing to watch. I don't ever want to see Papi/Brady like this.
Agreed. It may just be the Thunder, though, and their relatively young bigs (Adams/Ibaka/Kanter). Duncan might look better against another veteran. Papi? After two home runs tonight? He's going out in a blaze of glory....
Disagree, he keeps such constant pressure on the other team that his shooting percentage matters less than with other people, also it seems like OKC gets a lot of easy putbacks off his misses because he draws so much attention. What I thought cost them game 3 was he had a few totally needless turnovers late, and still they were a defensive board away from having a shot to tie at the end.
Kind of shocked how little Duncan seems to have left, I figured he was holding back and would be a serious factor by now, but surprisingly pretty much not at all.
Edit: Didn't see the earlier Duncan comments before, it's hard not to notice.
The problem with Westbrook assisting is that guys like Waiters and Adams need to make shots as they did tonight. When that isn't happening the only chance OKC has against a team like the Spurs is when Durant and Westbrook are carrying the offense.
That's on the OKC GM for letting their third perimeter option go from Harden to Jackson to Waiters (yikes!). The entire non-Westbrook OKC team had a whopping 6 assists in game 3 and 8 tonight, and since Durant doesn't do too much playmaking these days, a huge amount of the offensive burden is on Westbrook. He doesn't have too many chances to stand down much if he doesn't want his team run out of the gym against an opponent this good.
For all the hate 12-time All-Star Dwyane Wade gets around here he's been nothing short of sensational during these playoffs for Miami and has aged much better than I thought he would 3-4 years ago when he was having so many knee problems in the playoffs. Now as this series gets smaller with no Jonas and presumably no Hassan it is going to change how these games are played with coaches/players strategy and approach changing. Tonight should be a very interesting game of small and smaller ball.
He showed flashes during the season of turning back the clock but i was skeptical it would last. There were several plays where he was jumping as high as he did during his first few years. The weight loss has really benefitted him.
Is it his charity work in Chicago and Miami then?
I just never understood in a league of so many nutcases and (some truly) bad people two of the most hated are two of the most talented and entertaining who have never been in trouble with the law in Wade and LeBron.
Is Lebron really that hated?
And people hate Wade because he's a cheap shot. They don't like LeBron because he's one of the best players in NBA history.
And people hate Wade because he's a cheap shot. They don't like LeBron because he's one of the best players in NBA history.
I thought we were talking about why Wade was hated on this board. And it's pretty obvious why Wade is hated by Celtics fans. Dirty player who intentionally injured Rondo among other plays that I'm surely forgetting.