Everything Zen: 2023 Michigan Football

[Zososoxfan]

Shame on all of our SoSH Wolverines for waiting this long to get a thread going for what should be the best shot the program has at a National Title in some time. This team is LOADED at nearly every position, even going to the 2-deep, with the exception of starting CB2 and backup QB.

It all starts with JJ McCarthy at QB, who was outstanding last year but not quite good enough to get us over some coaching missteps against TCU. His 2 pick-6s in that game had a huge impact on the result and that's a shame as a rematch with UGA would've been a lot of fun and there's a small possibility we get UM-UGA II this season. The presumed backup, Davis Warren, is a caretaker type, that could likely lead the O to wins against all but 2-3 scheduled opponents (OSU and PSU are legit, Minny, Maryland, and Purdue might be challenges?). IU transfer Jack Tuttle is also in there somewhere. The next few weeks should suss that out.

RB is the best position group in the country by a mile. Blake Corum is an AA candidate and Don Edwards is right there with him. Corum is a perfect college back and Edwards looks like a potential 1st RB off the board with his running and receiving skills, and every play homerun threat. Gawd I'm excited for them. I just hope Blake hasn't lost anything with the injury. He's so strong too. Edwards looks like he's in his mid 30s despite being 19-20 years old--cracks me up every time.

The OL is stacked once again, led by elite guards Zinter and Keegan. All 3 other spots have good high floor and high ceiling options. The 2-deep is very impressive and could be starters at most other programs throughout the country.

TE looks exceptional with Freshman standout Coleston Loveland hopefully ready to take another step forward. Best case scenario, he nudges himself into every national conversation about TEs next to Bowers.

WR looks good, not great. Roman Wilson got the #1 jersey in fall camp and really, his late season performances justify that. He's a homerun threat with a full toolkit to boot. Across from his is Cornelius Johnson who's more of a possession type guy but with enough wiggle to demoralize OSU. Behind them is a bit of a mishmash but we'll see how many balls Michigan throws around this season.

On D, things are looking very good. Led by AA candidates DT Kris Jenkins and CB1 Will Johnson. There's better depth at LB finally which is a relief, CB2 is a bit of a mystery, and lack of elite edge rush is probably the biggest concern on the entire team.

Jenkins will pair with Mason Graham on the interior DL, and man it's hard not to be super jazzed by this tandem. Jenkins was superlative last year at the DT position, and Graham was very good at NT as a TRUE FRESHMAN. That's just bonkers. The edge is where Michigan may not have the Jimmys and Joes but I'm really high on Derrick Moore and bringing in Josiah Stewart looks like a really solid pickup. Jaylen Harrell is still around as well and another year in the program hopefully elevates his game.

At LB, hopefully Junior Colson can continue to improve as the center of the D. He was toolsy 2 seasons ago, really stepped up last year, and if he has a "leap" in him this season, watch out. Michael Barrett is one of the core guys that held over from the Don Brown D (I think?) and his play late last season helped make the season a big success. Ernest Hausmann transferred in from Nebraska and will also likely see real snaps. Jimmy Rolder is the other guy that we may hear about.

In the secondary, Will Johnson is the kinda guy you can build a pass D scheme out of. He'll take care of eliminating the opposing team's best player. Mikey Sainristil (of Mass!) is another key player at Slot Corner. I think he's a captain and one of the "soul" guys on the team. His PBU against the OSU TE in The Game last year was probably the single biggest play of the season. Across from Will, there is a question mark. Michigan brought in transfer Josh Wallace from ZooMass Slamherst to bring up the floor of the position considerably. He'll be fine in the nonconference schedule, but we probably want Amorion Walker, Jaden McBurrows, or someone else to pass him in this first month, or at a minimum to build some depth.

Safety returns both starters in Rod Moore, who's NFL level, and the more inconsistent Makari Paige. Paige isn't stapled on and will hopefully get pushed by the strong backups in Quentin Johnson, Zeke Berry, and Keon Sabb.

Michigan is replacing both K and P this year, so that's something to watch. They snagged Michigan native James Turner out of Louisville, who's automatic inside of 40, and pretty good but inconsistent on 41-50. Incoming Punter Tommy Doman is one of if the not the highest rated Freshman P this season.

Harbaugh is suspended for the first 3 games (by Michigan's AD) for buying some recruits a burger. And yes, as expected, those sandwiches were nothingburgers.

GO BLUE!!

 

[BigJimEd]

Harbaugh is suspended for the first 3 games (by Michigan's AD) for buying some recruits a burger. And yes, as expected, those sandwiches were nothingburgers.

Nice spin but you do know that's not what the violations are about?

 

[Zososoxfan]

Nice spin but you do know that's not what the violations are about?

Do you think the suspension is due to Harbaugh allegedly lying to investigators? Because I think that's a load of shit too.

 

[BigJimEd]

Do you think the suspension is due to Harbaugh allegedly lying to investigators? Because I think that's a load of shit too.

I think it's possible he did but the recruiting violations were not about a cheeseburger or at least not all. From what I understand there were impermissible calls, text and possibly visits. Were the violations anything out of the ordinary for top programs? Probably not.

Virtually everyone agrees the NCAA sucks, is a corrupt organization and is inconsistent at best in their "enforcement." I don't necessarily think Harbaugh deserves anything more than the slap on the wrist the school gave him. I just find it amusing the Michigan alum and fans are pushing the cheeseburger narrative that seems to have originating within Ann Arbor. Is anyone outside of the Michigan sphere buying this spin? Not anyone I know.

 

[Average Reds]

Nice spin but you do know that's not what the violations are about?

Despite the NCAA’s whining, that is, in fact, what he was accused of doing - lying about impermissible benefits given during the COVID dead period. There were several underlying violations cited, but the specific example cited last Winter was that he bought a meal (specifically, a hamburger) for a recruit at the Brown Jug during a visit and then claimed that he didn’t remember when asked later.

For the NCAA to unilaterally declare this to be a case of intentional ommission and use that to bootstrap minor violations into a Level 1 offense is a big part of the reason they are such a joke of an organization.

https://theathletic.com/4719937/2023/07/25/jim-harbaugh-michigan-suspension-tressel/

 

[jacklamabe65]

A former student of mine, a freshman, Stone Anderson, is on the roster as a placekicker and punter.

 

[mauf]

Shame on all of our SoSH Wolverines for waiting this long to get a thread going for what should be the best shot the program has at a National Title in some time. This team is LOADED at nearly every position, even going to the 2-deep, with the exception of starting CB2 and backup QB.

It all starts with JJ McCarthy at QB, who was outstanding last year but not quite good enough to get us over some coaching missteps against TCU. His 2 pick-6s in that game had a huge impact on the result and that's a shame as a rematch with UGA would've been a lot of fun and there's a small possibility we get UM-UGA II this season. The presumed backup, Davis Warren, is a caretaker type, that could likely lead the O to wins against all but 2-3 scheduled opponents (OSU and PSU are legit, Minny, Maryland, and Purdue might be challenges?). IU transfer Jack Tuttle is also in there somewhere. The next few weeks should suss that out.

RB is the best position group in the country by a mile. Blake Corum is an AA candidate and Don Edwards is right there with him. Corum is a perfect college back and Edwards looks like a potential 1st RB off the board with his running and receiving skills, and every play homerun threat. Gawd I'm excited for them. I just hope Blake hasn't lost anything with the injury. He's so strong too. Edwards looks like he's in his mid 30s despite being 19-20 years old--cracks me up every time.

The OL is stacked once again, led by elite guards Zinter and Keegan. All 3 other spots have good high floor and high ceiling options. The 2-deep is very impressive and could be starters at most other programs throughout the country.

TE looks exceptional with Freshman standout Coleston Loveland hopefully ready to take another step forward. Best case scenario, he nudges himself into every national conversation about TEs next to Bowers.

WR looks good, not great. Roman Wilson got the #1 jersey in fall camp and really, his late season performances justify that. He's a homerun threat with a full toolkit to boot. Across from his is Cornelius Johnson who's more of a possession type guy but with enough wiggle to demoralize OSU. Behind them is a bit of a mishmash but we'll see how many balls Michigan throws around this season.

On D, things are looking very good. Led by AA candidates DT Kris Jenkins and CB1 Will Johnson. There's better depth at LB finally which is a relief, CB2 is a bit of a mystery, and lack of elite edge rush is probably the biggest concern on the entire team.

Jenkins will pair with Mason Graham on the interior DL, and man it's hard not to be super jazzed by this tandem. Jenkins was superlative last year at the DT position, and Graham was very good at NT as a TRUE FRESHMAN. That's just bonkers. The edge is where Michigan may not have the Jimmys and Joes but I'm really high on Derrick Moore and bringing in Josiah Stewart looks like a really solid pickup. Jaylen Harrell is still around as well and another year in the program hopefully elevates his game.

At LB, hopefully Junior Colson can continue to improve as the center of the D. He was toolsy 2 seasons ago, really stepped up last year, and if he has a "leap" in him this season, watch out. Michael Barrett is one of the core guys that held over from the Don Brown D (I think?) and his play late last season helped make the season a big success. Ernest Hausmann transferred in from Nebraska and will also likely see real snaps. Jimmy Rolder is the other guy that we may hear about.

In the secondary, Will Johnson is the kinda guy you can build a pass D scheme out of. He'll take care of eliminating the opposing team's best player. Mikey Sainristil (of Mass!) is another key player at Slot Corner. I think he's a captain and one of the "soul" guys on the team. His PBU against the OSU TE in The Game last year was probably the single biggest play of the season. Across from Will, there is a question mark. Michigan brought in transfer Josh Wallace from ZooMass Slamherst to bring up the floor of the position considerably. He'll be fine in the nonconference schedule, but we probably want Amorion Walker, Jaden McBurrows, or someone else to pass him in this first month, or at a minimum to build some depth.

Safety returns both starters in Rod Moore, who's NFL level, and the more inconsistent Makari Paige. Paige isn't stapled on and will hopefully get pushed by the strong backups in Quentin Johnson, Zeke Berry, and Keon Sabb.

Michigan is replacing both K and P this year, so that's something to watch. They snagged Michigan native James Turner out of Louisville, who's automatic inside of 40, and pretty good but inconsistent on 41-50. Incoming Punter Tommy Doman is one of if the not the highest rated Freshman P this season.

Harbaugh is suspended for the first 3 games (by Michigan's AD) for buying some recruits a burger. And yes, as expected, those sandwiches were nothingburgers.

GO BLUE!!

Is this their best shot at the title? The Wolverines are terrific, but Ohio State appears to be fielding their usual juggernaut, and Penn State is poised for a good year too. The rest of the schedule is soft — they’ll almost certainly be 7-0 heading into Lansing. But I’d rate those two showdowns as coin flips, and it’s going to be hard to overcome a late loss if they don’t win the B1G championship. There’s a path for sure, but I think it’s a narrower one than you do.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Is this their best shot at the title? The Wolverines are terrific, but Ohio State appears to be fielding their usual juggernaut, and Penn State is poised for a good year too. The rest of the schedule is soft — they’ll almost certainly be 7-0 heading into Lansing. But I’d rate those two showdowns as coin flips, and it’s going to be hard to overcome a late loss if they don’t win the B1G championship. There’s a path for sure, but I think it’s a narrower one than you do.

OSU is the bigger threat as usual, but OSU is a home game and OSU is the weakest they've been in some time. They're unsettled at QB, they haven't really addressed the systemic issues that gave them fits vs. UM last year, and they have weaknesses in their returning production (namely OL, DL, and in the secondary). All that said, they have a conga line of 5 stars coming in behind them, so they'll still be 11-0/10-1 entering The Game.

PSU is also fielding a very strong team this year, but they got badly outcoached last year and they still have real problems on both lines. On top of that, Drew Allar is not an accurate QB and will be entering his first season as a starter. They'll get to double digit wins, but I think Michigan handles them, because...

JJ McCarthy. Last year's team had some question marks that were answered surprisingly well, but JJ wasn't asked to do much as the OL/RB group carried them to runaway victories in most games. This season, Michigan returns elite talent at almost every position (again, CB2 and Edge being the exceptions) but more importantly they should be ready to unleash a more balanced attack with JJ. The one other potential weakness is getting the same elite production from the OL while breaking in a new C and LT, but they brought in experienced talent (Henderson, Hinton, etc.) and the Guards are both AA quality.

 

[twibnotes]

Thanks for getting this thread going, Zososoxfan! I'm really excited about this team. It's crazy that they had so many guys drafted, yet they bring back a very high pct of offensive production. This is definitely their best shot in a long time.

Next year, they lose a ton of talent (possibly as many as 10+ guys will get drafted), and the schedule will be a LOT harder (Univ of Texas comes to Ann Arbor, and both USC and UCLA are added to the Big Ten slate). This is their biggest shot in a while and possibly for a while.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Thanks for getting this thread going, Zososoxfan! I'm really excited about this team. It's crazy that they had so many guys drafted, yet they bring back a very high pct of offensive production. This is definitely their best shot in a long time.

Next year, they lose a ton of talent (possibly as many as 10+ guys will get drafted), and the schedule will be a LOT harder (Univ of Texas comes to Ann Arbor, and both USC and UCLA are added to the Big Ten slate). This is their biggest shot in a while and possibly for a while.

More than anything, it's the QB situation that will drop off. Even if you're super high on Jayden Davis he's going to be a true frosh. I expect them to pickup an older transfer to let him be the backup for 1-2 seasons.

The other big thing to consider next year is that the playoffs is expanding to 12 teams. So making the playoffs will be easier, but winning the NT will likely be just as hard. It does look like the expanded playoffs will lead programs to schedule more competitive non-con games, and that's awesome for fans. Compare the home slate for UM fans this year to next year's. EGADS!

 

[Eric1984]

Despite the NCAA’s whining, that is, in fact, what he was accused of doing - lying about impermissible benefits given during the COVID dead period. There were several underlying violations cited, but the specific example cited last Winter was that he bought a meal (specifically, a hamburger) for a recruit at the Brown Jug during a visit and then claimed that he didn’t remember when asked later.

For the NCAA to unilaterally declare this to be a case of intentional ommission and use that to bootstrap minor violations into a Level 1 offense is a big part of the reason they are such a joke of an organization.

https://theathletic.com/4719937/2023/07/25/jim-harbaugh-michigan-suspension-tressel/

If Jimmy bought that burger at the Jug for a recruit 30 years ago there’s a good chance I would have been the one who cooked it and the recruit probably would have gotten sick and nobody in the NCAA or athletic department would be calling it a “benefit.”

 

[Eric1984]

Anyway, on the road yesterday and listened on the radio. Sounded like a solid performance but also sounded like getting the ball in the end zone from inside the 5 is going to be an ongoing concern.

 

[Zososoxfan]

I have Peacock so I was able to watch the game in theory, but we had guests over so I figured I'd just watch it back skipping through commercials and maybe even at 1.25x speed. But, Peacock's replays don't allow you to skip commercials. So I didn't watch. That's asinine on Peacock's part--I'm already paying you, give me the services/content I want.

Sounds like JJM was nearly perfect. OL had some blips, DL didn't get much pressure, but otherwise this was ho-hum. It also seems like ECU is better than advertised, which makes some sense. It's a good program that just lost a lot of talent from last year's team--not a total tiretrashfire, like in East Lansing [ducks].

 

[Granite Sox]

Handled UNLV as expected. I thought the DL was fantastic, particularly Jenkins and Kenneth Grant. Lots of run for lots of players. JJ was great again.

But run game leaving a lot on the table, and the 2s didn’t look very good. I know we’ve got substitute teachers masquerading as HC, but the second string and OL need to play better.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Handled UNLV as expected. I thought the DL was fantastic, particularly Jenkins and Kenneth Grant. Lots of run for lots of players. JJ was great again.

But run game leaving a lot on the table, and the 2s didn’t look very good. I know we’ve got substitute teachers masquerading as HC, but the second string and OL need to play better.

Surprised they didn't stick to the plan to rotate the tackles--I really wanted to see Henderson and especially Trente get some run. But really, JJ lighting up the universe is the first, second, and third story. Followed by Moore and the DL getting real pressure. The emergence of Keon Sabb and Tyler Morris is also a welcome sight.

I knew it before the season, but these first 4 games really feel like preseason. No real sense of need to watch these games live--more than happy to enjoy my Saturdays and catch the first half on 'DVR'.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Well, that game against BGSU was a total sludgefart. JJ threw some bad picks, some turnovers kept the game close in the first half, but make no mistake this was still an instance of Michigan sitting on an overmatched opponent who had no real interest in competing. The DL looks fierce and the OL has looked shakier than expected, but otherwise not too much to say about this one.

JH returns to the sidelines this week and a real(ish) opponent in Rutgers visits the Big House. Excited to see if Will Johnson is a full go, if Rod Moore returns to the lineup, and what the OL looks like and what types of running plays they call. Preseason is over, LFG!

 

[Zososoxfan]

Hamblasted Nebraska to conclude a booooooooring September. Thank goodness that's over and we can get into the meat of the schedule. [Checks October schedule] Goddamnit, yawn.

Offense looks like it's ready to catch fire. Bredeson and Barner are probably the best run blockers on the team and it's making life hell for defenses. On D, the D Line has been superlative, the LBs haven't been tested much but look great, and it's the secondary that looks a bit creaky. We need Will Johnson to become 5* WJ again, and Rod Moore needs to get back to his old self, and then I'll feel better.

 

[mauf]

Hamblasted Nebraska to conclude a booooooooring September. Thank goodness that's over and we can get into the meat of the schedule. [Checks October schedule] Goddamnit, yawn.

Offense looks like it's ready to catch fire. Bredeson and Barner are probably the best run blockers on the team and it's making life hell for defenses. On D, the D Line has been superlative, the LBs haven't been tested much but look great, and it's the secondary that looks a bit creaky. We need Will Johnson to become 5* WJ again, and Rod Moore needs to get back to his old self, and then I'll feel better.

Are they playing for the Large Wooden Piss Jug or some such?

With Michigan State floundering, Minnesota is the closest facsimile to a real opponent that the Wolverines will face before the Committee releases its first rankings on October 31. A lopsided victory would help.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Are they playing for the Large Wooden Piss Jug or some such?

With Michigan State floundering, Minnesota is the closest facsimile to a real opponent that the Wolverines will face before the Committee releases its first rankings on October 31. A lopsided victory would help.

I came here to disagree with you, but you're right. Minny is currently ranked 46th in SP+, which isn't that impressive on the national level but puts this game as the 4th toughest on the schedule. For comparison, Rutgers is currently 61, Nebraska is 69, ECU is below 100, UNLV is 88, and BGSU is below 100.

Looking ahead, IU is 91, MSU is 57 (way higher than I expected), Purdue is 68, PSU is 13, MD is 31, and OSU is 2 (second only to the defending B1G champs!).

In sum, Minny's D is approximately a top 25 unit, but the O is pretty awful--'tis the B1G after all!

Sidebar: Didn't realize ESPN bought Connelly and SP+. That's annoying. ESPN needs to offer sortable tables for offense and defense post haste.

 

[Awesome Fossum]

Won't be a problem next year -- Michigan gets Washington, at Oregon, and at USC in 2024.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38574959/big-ten-reveals-new-football-schedules-2024-28-seasons

 

[Zososoxfan]

Another game, another boring bludgeoning. November can't get here soon enough.

 

[Average Reds]

Another game, another boring bludgeoning. November can't get here soon enough.

I hear you. However, given the alternative, I'm very satisfied that Michigan is delivering boring bludeonings to mid-level conference opponents.

I'll be at the game in State College in November. Can't wait.

 

[Zososoxfan]

I hear you. However, given the alternative, I'm very satisfied that Michigan is delivering boring bludeonings to mid-level conference opponents.

I'll be at the game in State College in November. Can't wait.

And to your point, if we bludgeon MSU this month (who TBF looks much better than I expected) it will be thrilling. It says something that games against real P5 programs in Rutgers, Nebraska, and Minny were essentially laughers.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Another game, another boring bludgeoning. November can't get here soon enough.

Q (myself) FT

 

[Awesome Fossum]

The NCAA is investigating the Michigan football program for allegedly violating rules that prohibit teams from scouting, in person, future opponents, industry sources told Yahoo Sports.

The allegation pertains to NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1, which reads: “Off-campus, in-person scouring of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited,” sources say.

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-investigating-michigan-football-for-alleged-rule-violations-related-to-sign-stealing-161714176.html

Rules are rules, but I guess I dislike the term "sign stealing." It's more like advance sign scouting or something. I've been to high school football games where the a future opponent's JV staff is doing the same thing.

 

[Mooch]

Spygate 2: Electric Boogaloo?

Clearly the Pats need to be fined and docked a first round pick for this. I mean, Brady went to Michigan so…

 

[axx]

Spygate 2: Electric Boogaloo?

Clearly the Pats need to be fined and docked a first round pick for this. I mean, Brady went to Michigan so…

More like Harbaugh is going to be the next Patriots HC.

 

[mauf]

Spygate 2: Electric Boogaloo?

Clearly the Pats need to be fined and docked a first round pick for this. I mean, Brady went to Michigan so…

How comparable this is to Spygate depends on how frequently these rules were violated. Many teams violated the rule the Pats violated until the league sent a memo to all teams telling them to cut the shit. BB’s sin was continuing the practice after that memo.

If other big-time college programs commonly do some informal in-person scouting of future opponents, this will be much less of a scandal than if other teams largely follow the rules and Michigan is an outlier. I have no idea what actual practice is; so far, there aren’t follow-on allegations against other programs, but neither are opposing coaches broadly expressing outrage about Michigan’s alleged practices.

 

[mauf]

More like Harbaugh is going to be the next Patriots HC.

I would love this.

Harbaugh turns 60 in a couple months. If he wants another stint in the NFL, this would be the time to jump.

Edit to add: At age 66, I believe Bruce Arians was the oldest non-interim head coach at the time of his hire in NFL history. It’s not now or never for Harbaugh, but he’s approaching the age where NFL teams have demonstrated unwillingness to hire. So if he wants to go eventually, moving now while he can put all this disciplinary crap behind him (and minimize UM’s punishment by letting them blame him) makes a lot of sense.

 

[Zososoxfan]

More like Harbaugh is going to be the next Patriots HC.

Uhhhh, yeah! I don't see a world where this happens unless there's some sort of falling out between BB and Kraft, but it makes a lot of sense on paper. The other possible issue is whether there's bad blood between the Harbaughs and the Pats org--it feels like the Ravens and Pats don't particularly like each other, even if it's based on similar management philosophies and rivalry.

 

[Pesky Pole]

I look forward to John Harbaugh saying all his brothers wins are tainted and should have an asterisk.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Another week, and another opponent gets immolated. This one is definitely sweeter as it's MSU and their joke of an institution/program. Michigan is on a bye next week before they ramp up with the meat of their schedule (Purdue, @PSU (#10), @Maryland, OSU (#3)).

JJM is on fire, and is now the betting favorite to win the Heisman (21/27, 287 yards, 4 TDs, no picks). The TEs stole the show on offense as Loveland had 4 catches, 79 yards, and 2 TDs, and Barner had 8 catches, 99 yards, and a TD (also had one called back on a foul IIRC).

The defense was lights out and pitched a shutout. Derrick Moore, Mason Graham, Josaiah Stewart, and Braiden McGregor all had multiple sacks/TFLs/PBUs/QBHits. Mikey Sainristil had a pick 6 (he stepped out but it didn't get called).

 

[soxhop411]

How comparable this is to Spygate depends on how frequently these rules were violated. Many teams violated the rule the Pats violated until the league sent a memo to all teams telling them to cut the shit. BB’s sin was continuing the practice after that memo.

If other big-time college programs commonly do some informal in-person scouting of future opponents, this will be much less of a scandal than if other teams largely follow the rules and Michigan is an outlier. I have no idea what actual practice is; so far, there aren’t follow-on allegations against other programs, but neither are opposing coaches broadly expressing outrage about Michigan’s alleged practices.

ESPN is now out with the longform

Connor Stalions, the suspended Michigan staffer at the center of the NCAA's sign-stealing probe, purchased tickets in his own name for more than 30 games over the last three years at 11 different Big Ten schools, sources at 11 different league schools told ESPN.

The scope of the University of Michigan's alleged sign-stealing operation includes both video evidence of electronics prohibited by the NCAA to steal signs and a significant paper trail, sources told ESPN. Stalions forwarded the tickets he bought to at least three different people in different areas of the country, sources say, which hints at the breadth of the operation.

The NCAA is expected to receive video evidence this week of illegal technology used in scouting tied to tickets purchased by Stalions, according to sources. An opposing Big Ten school looked up in-stadium surveillance video from a game earlier this year, and sources said the person in the seat of the ticket purchased by Stalions held his smart phone up and appeared to film the home team's sideline the entire game

Sources confirmed to ESPN that Stalions purchased tickets on both sides of the stadium -- across from each bench -- for Ohio State's game with Penn State on Saturday. Michigan plays both teams in upcoming weeks. According to sources, the tickets purchased by Stalions were not used on Saturday. Stalions' name emerged publicly in an ESPN story on Friday. He was suspended with pay by Michigan.

None of the tickets that the 11 schools told ESPN about involved Michigan as an opponent, per sources. The games involved either one or both of the teams that the Wolverines were playing later that year, according to sources.

Stalions did not respond to ESPN's request for comment. Michigan did not return multiple requests for comment by phone and text.

Michigan on Monday reiterated that it is unable to comment further due to the ongoing investigation.

Michigan is now ranked No. 2 in the AP poll, looking for its third consecutive trip to the College Football Playoff and is the current betting favorite to win the national title.

Sources indicated that Stalions forwarded tickets to at least three other individuals, with the ticket transfer showing up through ticket data tracking. Those tickets were used to get in the game by individuals other than Stalions, including the one in the video the NCAA is expected to receive.

Sources told ESPN last week of an "elaborate" scouting system, and that appears to be emerging less than a week after Yahoo Sports first reported that the NCAA was investigating Michigan's scouting. Stalions often purchased the tickets with his own credit card, according to sources. The sources added that tickets at multiple venues were bought via the online retailers like StubHub or SeatGeek.

The ticket purchases fall into a seat location pattern -- somewhere around the 45-yard line and raised up enough for a clear view of the opposite sideline.

One source told ESPN Stalions bought tickets to five different games at that school over the past three years. Another said it was four games over the past two years. A third source said it was nine games over the last three years. Some of the purchases were single tickets, others were for multiple people and sometimes seats were bought on both sides of the stadium near midfield.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38727023/u-m-staffer-bought-tickets-11-schools
More at the link

 

[dhappy42]

ESPN is now out with the longform


https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38727023/u-m-staffer-bought-tickets-11-schools
More at the link

Looks like Michigan has been caught red-handed.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Looks like Michigan has been caught red-handed.

Yeah, that's a bit worse than I expected. The only possible saving grace is that other teams are doing it too--i.e., RichRod's stretchgate back in the day.

 

[DJnVa]

 

[FL4WL3SS]

I'm an Ohio State fan and alum.

With that out of the way. I have been very perplexed the last couple years how OSU could look so bad during the Michigan game. After winning 8 in a row, I can see how Harbaugh would want to get an edge since that game is so important to the head coaching job.

I'm sure a lot of teams are doing things like this, though. There's too much money involved.

 

[Zososoxfan]

When it comes to sign stealing in college football, a consensus among coaches about what is unequivocally wrong is hard to find. Grant said Auburn tried to decipher signs only in real time. Because of that he never felt like they were crossing the line.

But talk to enough coaches and you'll find shades of gray when they search for a competitive advantage. Paranoia is rampant, rationalizing the kind of behavior American Football Coaches Association executive director Todd Berry said is, at the very least, unethical.

Ethics in college football. Imagine that.

...

ESPN surveyed coaches in the aftermath of the news out of Michigan to see what they thought. Some were aghast at what Michigan is accused of doing. Others shrugged their shoulders. A Big Ten coach said, "If they were sending people to live-scout and film, that's bulls---, then they should catch hell."

But another coach with Big Ten and SEC experience asked what the big deal was in practical terms. Between the TV broadcast, coaches' tape and what fans film with their phones and post online, the coach said there's more than enough footage that's accessible without ever leaving the office. "Anything that happens in the public eye hasn't gone too far," the coach said. "To be honest, I can watch TV copy [of] two to three games and get everything I need."

Sign stealing, whether legal or illegal "is incredibly rampant in this business," a longtime Power 5 assistant said. Ohio State defensive coordinator Jim Knowles told ESPN in December that he estimates 75% of teams do it in some form. NCAA rules don't directly ban stealing signals, but they prohibit using electronic equipment to record signals and ban off-campus scouting of future opponents.

...

The teams that have a reputation for pushing the boundaries are well known, as are the individual coaches and staff members who are considered gurus. A source rattled off the name of a Group of 5 linebackers coach and Power 5 offensive line coach who are well-versed in the dark art of deciphering signals. Going into certain games, the source said he'll warn coaches, "You need to be prepared for this."

When LSU played Clemson in the 2020 College Football Playoff, sources said the staff suspected Clemson of sending people to scout them in the SEC championship game and Peach Bowl. Brent Venables, then Clemson's defensive coordinator, has long been the focal point of sign-stealing speculation, according to multiple sources, though no one has publicly accused him of anything illegal. After LSU's first three offensive drives ended with three punts and one first down, sources said a frustrated coach Ed Orgeron told offensive coordinator Steve Ensminger, "Change it up." Upon changing signals, LSU scored touchdowns on five of its next six drives.

It was hardly the first championship game in which a team allegedly cracked an opponent's code. During the 2013 BCS National Championship Game, Florida State receiver Kelvin Benjamin was heard in the TV broadcast telling quarterback Jameis Winston that Auburn assistant Dameyune Craig, who was on the Seminoles' staff the previous year, was "calling all the plays" FSU was running. Coaches brought out towels to shield the signalers in the second half and went on to outscore Auburn 24-10 to come from behind and win. A victorious coach Jimbo Fisher acknowledged their signals were stolen -- and couldn't have cared less. "That's our fault," he said. "You've got to change them. ... That's part of the game." Fisher rehired Craig in 2017 and brought him to Texas A&M, where he remains on staff today.

...

A former SEC coach said there's an expectation you're being watched at all times, including opponents sending spies to spring games and open scrimmages.

Some teams push the boundaries more than others, but ultimately coaches say it's not hard to tell when you've been skunked.

A former head coach said it's simple. If a defense blows up your bubble screen three times in a row, chances are they have your number and you better switch things up and hope your players don't get confused.

"Look, we're all trying to compete and everybody's trying to find that advantage," a source said. "And if the advantage is that the guy that's on your sideline can watch their sidelines and pick it up ... at some point in time, you got to be better at hiding your signals. That's just all there is to it. I mean, if we're going to live in a world where signals exist, you've got to hide them."

...

BUT WHAT IF we don't have to live in a world with signals?

Depending on what level of football you're talking about, that world already exists.

"It's 10:56 right now," an industry source said. "They could call CoachComm [which produces headsets for nearly all of the FBS] and have this fixed by 11. They could overnight helmet speakers to every school by the end of the day."

Berry's frustration built slowly over the course of a half-hour conversation, starting with mild annoyance over coaches' shenanigans and ending with outright anger over the NCAA's inability to take up the solution staring them in the face.

"This is too easy a problem to solve," he said.

...

"We were able to play a COVID year, but we aren't able to put transmitters in headsets?" a Power 5 coach said. "C'mon. You look at sideline technology, you go to high school football games, they all have sideline technology. They're watching video in-between series, they have it just like the NFL. We have none of that. Of all the games, we're the worst right now. It's weird. It really is weird."

Berry said there's ample support among coaches to make the change, and the NCAA committees he's spoken to seem open to the idea as well. All they need is a demonstration of the technology, he said. But he's been unable to get that accomplished, given the attention on name, image and likeness and transfer portal.

"We have so much crap going on -- and you can quote me on that -- that we can't see the forest through the trees," Berry said. "Every meeting I'm at, something takes all the oxygen out of the room. There are some things that are really, really simple like this one, boom-boom, it's done.

"It's been a problem for a long time. We need to resolve it."

Good article on ESPN taking the temp on this issue with coaches from around the country.

LINK

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

I'm trying to remember deflategate here. Bottom line is that I'm predisposed to believe the salacious story. I was the same way with last year's chess cheating thing. Cheating is interesting and fun.

But I also remember the pile on phase of deflategate. That's where this is right now. I'm taking everything with a grain of salt and assuming that this could be bullshit.

 

[cornwalls@6]

Why is anyone still using visible signals in 2023? Shouldn’t everything be done through audio signals into the helmet, on offense and defense? I’m generally of the mind that all these cheating scandals are pretty ridiculous. And often driven by sour grape opponents, and inflamed by a click bait loving media. Felt that way about the Pats, the Astros, and same thing with Michigan. And as a die hard Notre Dame fan, I actively root against them.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Why is anyone still using visible signals in 2023? Shouldn’t everything be done through audio signals into the helmet, on offense and defense? I’m generally of the mind that all these cheating scandals are pretty ridiculous. And often driven by sour grape opponents, and inflamed by a click bait loving media. Felt that way about the Pats, the Astros, and same thing with Michigan. And as a die hard Notre Dame fan, I actively root against them.

The ESPN article I linked above talks about this a bit. Long story short, the NCAA takes odd approaches to such costs and so far has rejected the option of using audio signal-enabled helmets. Part of the reason is that installing the audio components may void the helmet manufacturer warranty, but that's not the real issue if you believe the source who responded to that line of logic. His line about playing through COVID was top notch.

 

[cornwalls@6]

The ESPN article I linked above talks about this a bit. Long story short, the NCAA takes odd approaches to such costs and so far has rejected the option of using audio signal-enabled helmets. Part of the reason is that installing the audio components may void the helmet manufacturer warranty, but that's not the real issue if you believe the source who responded to that line of logic. His line about playing through COVID was top notch.

I honestly never knew it was an NCAA ban on them, just assumed it was either a cost thing, or coaches being hide bound to the old way of doing it, on a school by school basis. They really need to adapt the helmet radio system ASAP. I still think the rules against sign stealing are absurd. If they’re not going to use available technology, they shouldn’t have any expectation of privacy when they are delivering hand or sign signals in stadiums filled with 70-100,000 people, virtually all of them carrying smart phones/cameras. Change them up more frequently, or go back to the old messenger system with players shuttling plays in. To be clear, the rule is currently still in place, and if Harbaugh willfully violated them, he deserves some penalty, just like Belichick did. I just can’t muster any moral outrage over these things. And if anything, I think it’s past time lose some of these outdated rules.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

I honestly never knew it was an NCAA ban on them, just assumed it was either a cost thing, or coaches being hide bound to the old way of doing it, on a school by school basis. They really need to adapt the helmet radio system ASAP. I still think the rules against sign stealing are absurd. If they’re not going to use available technology, they shouldn’t have any expectation of privacy when they are delivering hand or sign signals in stadiums filled with 70-100,000 people, virtually all of them carrying smart phones/cameras. Change them up more frequently, or go back to the old messenger system with players shuttling plays in. To be clear, the rule is currently still in place, and if Harbaugh willfully violated them, he deserves some penalty, just like Belichick did. I just can’t muster any moral outrage over these things. And if anything, I think it’s past time lose some of these outdated rules.

I mean, if what they are saying is true (the placards and stuff) there needs to be a rule and severe penalty for taking it this far. A coach who has to switch up signals every game will take away from the practice/routine and quality of the games as a whole will suffer.

I agree 100% that the NCAA needs to update the technology and look into the helmet signals.

 

[CFB_Rules]

Why is anyone still using visible signals in 2023? Shouldn’t everything be done through audio signals into the helmet, on offense and defense? I’m generally of the mind that all these cheating scandals are pretty ridiculous. And often driven by sour grape opponents, and inflamed by a click bait loving media. Felt that way about the Pats, the Astros, and same thing with Michigan. And as a die hard Notre Dame fan, I actively root against them.

It's because the NCAA can only issue blanket rules that apply to all colleges. For "rules of the game", they don't apply different rules across divisions. D2 and D3 colleges don't want to pay for helmets with radios.

 

[Average Reds]

It's because the NCAA can only issue blanket rules that apply to all colleges. For "rules of the game", they don't apply different rules across divisions. D2 and D3 colleges don't want to pay for helmets with radios.

The bolded is a great argument for the NCAA being substantially reformed or dissolved and replaced by something else.

The idea that D1 football is being held back on implementing a much easier system of transmitting signals because of the purity myth of Amos Alonzo Stagg (to cite one example) is mind-numbingly stupid.

 

[Zososoxfan]

I mean, if what they are saying is true (the placards and stuff) there needs to be a rule and severe penalty for taking it this far. A coach who has to switch up signals every game will take away from the practice/routine and quality of the games as a whole will suffer.

I agree 100% that the NCAA needs to update the technology and look into the helmet signals.

I don't think there's any rule infraction with the placards. And re coaches changing signals every game, did you read the article? They talk about LSU and FSU having to change their signals during the NCGs because the opponent clearly had decoded the signs.

It's because the NCAA can only issue blanket rules that apply to all colleges. For "rules of the game", they don't apply different rules across divisions. D2 and D3 colleges don't want to pay for helmets with radios.

The article is unclear on this subject, but I thought I read elsewhere that D2 football DOES use helmet speakers.

You don't want to use a speaker in the helmet like the NFL does with quarterbacks? Fine. Some coaches have suggested that it would put no-huddle offenses at a disadvantage because the quarterback would have to audibly relay the play call to teammates. Administrators, meanwhile, have expressed concerns about forcing every school to wear the same helmet.

Instead, Berry said, they could utilize a wearable technology independent of the helmet like PitchCom, which is currently used in professional and college baseball, that every player on the field would have access to. And he said that it wouldn't necessarily allow offenses to go faster, which is what some defensive-minded coaches fear. "We've done all the testing on it," Berry said, "and by the time that you punch in those things on your laptop on the sideline or your iPad or whatever you're going to end up utilizing, it takes about the same amount of time [as signaling]."

As Berry pointed out, colleges already use both forms of technology in practice. High schools use it, too. So maybe the obvious excuses of cost and implementation don't hold water.

"If you want to clean up what's going on at Michigan and every other school, put a transmitter," a longtime official said. "The NCAA talks about losing the warranties on the helmets. With the USFL, XFL, NFL, with transmitters, it does not lose the warranty. I don't care what it costs, we want it. Clean up the game, make it more professional. It's just technology."

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

I don't think there's any rule infraction with the placards. And re coaches changing signals every game, did you read the article? They talk about LSU and FSU having to change their signals during the NCGs because the opponent clearly had decoded the signs.



The article is unclear on this subject, but I thought I read elsewhere that D2 football DOES use helmet speakers.

I meant if this guy was filming signals (illegal) and then making placards of the signals...that is all sorts of cheating and a HUGE advantage.

I did read the article. LSU had 16 days between games. FSU literally had a month between their last game and the Auburn game. That is a huge difference. Coaches can't be expected to change multiple times (how many to be safe? Have 3, 4, or 6 different signal packages?). That is unrealistic and will hurt the game.

 

[Awesome Fossum]

Switching technology seems reasonable, but then again so does people just not breaking the very clear and easy to follow rule.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQm2YXqkmAQ

 

[CFB_Rules]

The article is unclear on this subject, but I thought I read elsewhere that D2 football DOES use helmet speakers.

They definitely dont use it in game, because it's illegal.

The bolded is a great argument for the NCAA being substantially reformed or dissolved and replaced by something else.

The idea that D1 football is being held back on implementing a much easier system of transmitting signals because of the purity myth of Amos Alonzo Stagg (to cite one example) is mind-numbingly stupid.

Ugh, one set of rules please. Imagine how annoying it would be to referee a D2 game one weekend and a D1 game the next, and having two different sets of rules for each. Nevermind when a D2 school plays a D1 school, which set do you use? The 1 rulebook we have is hard enough.

 

[Awesome Fossum]

I love how the solution to Michigan breaking a clearly defined 30-year old rule is to dissolve the NCAA .