Eagles Fired Chip Kelly

[LondonSox]

Well lots of misunderstanding and uncertainty at this point.

The fact remains putting roseman back in charge is foolish at best and dangerously stupid at worst.

I will take Kelly running my team over roseman 100 times out of 100

 

[Oil Can Dan]

I don't really agree with you here oil can.

Roseman was a bad GM, he was a finance guy with no really skill or ability in talent judgment. His drafts have been horrible.

I think it's clear roseman and Kelly as some kind of unclear partnership was not working. It had to be resolved. It was resolved in a horrible way.
First roseman can't stay to whisper poison a d undermine Kelly. He had to go.
Now Kelly has been undermined and Lurie wanted to put roseman back in charge. That is different from putting in a new GM. Putting one back in who failed and clashed with Kelly is insane, and of course he needs to refuse that. It was inevitable if presented that way.

Was Kelly a successful GM? No. But also he had one freaking year. He supposedly wanted to draft linemen but had a run on them ahead of his picks. I think give the positive impression from the likes of hicks and Shepherd who were picked instead of reaching on a lineman is long term the right move. Short term it hurt Kelly and then cost him his job before he could use a second year to correct.

I think it's insane to give a guy one year only. You make a mistake and you're done. No way to go. I had no issues with a number of moves. The ones I hated were cutting Mathis and signing Murray. And I was vocal on both. Once it became clear the line was an issue I don't see any real way he had to fix it mid season.

He was not impressing as a coach. That's fair. But he won 20 games without a qb the previous two years. That's not nothing. He's got the best record of a three year coach to be fired EVER.

Roseman who is bad, and was fired for it now takes over. Why is that going to go well. Roseman is shit, a political douche with great contract and cap knowledge but no ability to scout.

This is awful. Lurie has fucked this hard. The Eagles are now adrift until roseman is gone and they start over. You will never get a top guy to serve under that asshole. He is not good enough to build a team, and won't be able to get the best coach. This is a mess. I fully expect several years of mess.

Bradford has notably improved in the second half of the season, they should sign him but they won't as a stupid vindictive move to Kelly. So someone is going to benefit from that.

As long as roseman is there and Lurie is acting like a moron this franchise is in trouble. Which sucks as the division is garbage and the two qbs of note are likely headed for the decline with no replacements around. And the racists are about to extend cousins. Is his half season foles fluke or real change? If a fluke this division is broken for a while.

I don't want to beat a dead horse but Chip the GM was not good, and sure it's only a year and that's not long enough to truly evaluate but things were heading in the wrong direction overall and his moves don't need the luxury of more time to see how they're going to work out. You don't sign Murray to that contract. And then you don't follow that up by giving Mathews $4m per for three years. You have Sproles already - what are you doing? You don't make a strong bid for Maclin, lose out, then do nothing. Oh, wait, yeah forgot he signed Miles Austin.

I'm beating the dead horse again so I'll stop. Chip the GM was over matched.

Chip the coach showed very little. Not bad out of the gate and sure, he did well with Nick Foles as QB in year 1 and not bad with Mark Sanchez for most of year 2. Bravo. I was encouraged. The league adjusted on him and his schemes and they couldn't compete in a historically bad division this year. I don't know if he lost the locker room but the players flat out quit on him this year. Those are on Chip the coach, not Chip the GM. There was no innovation. There was the philosophy of many repetitions of basic plays so we can master those plays and be unstoppable, but in reality you had the 3rd most dropped balls, pitiful blocking and execution, and no opportunity for the QB to provide guidance or leadership on the field because you're too busy hurrying up to get to the next thee and out.

Roseman - I don't know enough to say one way or the other. Is he the guy that wanted to draft Marcus Smith, or was that Chip? Was he chiefly responsible for drafting Fletcher Cox, or was that someone else? If we slam Roseman for signing Asomugha, do we praise him for Mathis and Barwin?

My understanding is he really only had the 2012 & 2013 drafts, and those were good. I read some thing about how each of the major players wrote down who they'd have taken at each spot in the recent drafts and per Lurie Roseman had the best results. But, who knows? I guess we'll see whether Roseman and Donahue are detriments to a quality HC coming in or not. They were here when Chip signed on as the hottest ticket in town not long ago.

One of the things Lurie said at his press conference is that he gave Chip the power he wanted last year in part because he wanted Chip to be held accountable if things blew up. They blew up pretty badly, and Chip is and should be held accountable. I was not against Chip coming back for another year, but I did not think it was going to work out well if he had. I guess I just fell off the Chipper bandwagon last offseason and this season did nothing to bring me back on. I'm definitelly bitter and I'm sure that's clouding my judgement right now. I wanted to believe the Eagles were getting a Bill Walsh revolutionary type with Chip, and I feel like instead we got sold a bill of inflexible goods that left the team in much worse shape than he found it.

 

[SoxinSeattle]

I wanted to believe the Eagles were getting a Bill Walsh revolutionary type with Chip, and I feel like instead we got sold a bill of inflexible goods that left the team in much worse shape than he found it.

Or worse. You did get a revolutionary type that works out for another team a la BB.

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

I honestly see a lot of parallels with Belichick - so I'm not surprised to see him say that he liked Kelly. The big difference is the Patriots got a bit lucky and found Brady and won a superbowl in BB's second year. BB ran a lot of popular players out of town the first couple of years - guys who had talent but didn't seem to be buying in. (And he did the same in Cleveland - and lost his job for it)

In a hypothetical world where Walt Coleman doesn't overturn the Tuck Rule Play, do the Patriots hold together the next year? Do they trade Bledsoe in the offseason? Does Kraft stick his nose into things and insist his QB with the 10 year 100M contract needs to start? Or are we looking at a team that does worse than 9-7, has a quarterback controversy, etc. It's all hypothetical, but that Superbowl bought an awful lot of leeway for them. (Except from Ron Borges). It gave BB a lot of space to make the changes he wanted to. It's all hypothetical, but I could see things turning out a whole lot differently.

Philly was terrible this year, but they did go 10-6 the last two under Kelly. Frankly, I would have been interested to see how they look next year.

 

[Kull]

EDIT: That reminds me... @Kull: Sorry about the Eagles this year. We've got one more game left, but Bradford is current 25th in DVOA.

So you're saying there's a chance??!!

 

[EricFeczko]

So you're saying there's a chance??!!

If bradford can pull a video game performance (~1000 yds, 15 TDs), definitely.

 

[LondonSox]

That's how I see it too Hoodie. See how he did next year and then decide.
I am a big believer in the right team guys. Look how a good organization brings in players who others rejected all the damn time and they succeed.

The Eagles are now trying to do what every half assed team in every sport does. Try to get lucky with the right hire. Catch lightning in a bottle. But Seattle aside that is rare. And frankly you could say the foles miracle season was that.

He's got the best 3 year record of any nearly any rookie coach and he the best of any that got fired. I want DeSean Jackson on the field but I completely respect walking away from a bad situation early. Those aren't the guys you want on your team that's fine. It's not a shock that DeSean Mathis and shady were the most loud mouthed players on the team AND all wanted to talk about money mid contract.

The Patriots have shown a similar total lack of patience for that nonsense and it clearly works. So what now? Go after the likes of hardy. On the field only matters? Or matters only if you are not fun to hang around with?

Thus this is Bullshit. You cannot fire a GM you believe in on one bad (rookie) season. One where you just might have found a starting qb BTW.

 

[LondonSox]

Let's remember too that this season is the only one where Kelly looked bad. Last year the system was regularly creating open receivers, Sanchez and foles couldn't hit them and couldn't hold onto the ball.
This year has been a mess but the line is the big issue and I'm not sure it's that hard to upgrade both guards and draft a longer term Peters replacement.

I'd lose Murray sign Bradford and Thurmond extend Cox and look to cut Cooper and sign a wr.

The dline is good. Alonso is still cheap if he improves post injury great if not Kendricks and hicks start. Rowe looked good he and maxwell and Jenkins and Thurmond is fine. A guy for depth and Shepherd hopefully recovered to play slot. That's just depth needed now on d.

Upgrade the line add a wr lose Murray if you can if not next year when it's cheaper. I don't know that's crazy.

If he does that and then sucks. Fine.

Giving up on him and giving roseman the reigns is a disaster.

 

[mauf]

I'm no expert but I've read rumblings on Tomlin in Pitt as well.

He's got another year -- 10-6 is usually good enough to make the playoffs, the Steelers had an exceptionally tough schedule this year, and BR's injury probably cost them a win (and with it, a playoff berth).

But I agree he's on the hot seat to a much greater extent than your typical coach who has been to two Super Bowls and is only a year removed from his last division title.

 

[tims4wins]

I believe I read that, assuming the NYJ win on Sunday, the Steelers will miss the playoffs for the 4th time in 5 years. They are almost always good or very good, but that is a near unacceptable run for that franchise. Tomlin gets one more year and I think he needs at least a run to the divisional or AFCCG to retain his job.

 

[mauf]

Kelly's firing got me to thinking about all the teams that may turn over their coach this year (or next).

At least a decent chance these teams are all looking for new head coaches this offseason (11 teams which is ridiculous):

Dolphins
Browns
Colts
Titans
Chargers
Eagles
Giants
Lions
Saints
Falcons
49ers

Once potential possibilities but now seem secure:

Bills (ownership backing Rex in a desperate need for stability no matter the cost)
Bengals (a Dalton-less first round exit probably saves Lewis again)
Jags (slight on-field improvement this year and ownership already has said no changes)
Chiefs (not the toughest schedule but Reid turns the team around and is now the hottest team in the AFC not named the Jets)
Cowboys (no Romo)
Bucs (Lovie getting it done, well sort of... but low bar helps)
Rams (no idea how he manages to fool everyone, but Fisher now with just 6 winning seasons in 21 tries)

Potential cast offs next season (not including those listed above):

Ravens (another dismal season and folks will start murmuring about wasting Flacco's prime. Yes, I wrote that with a forced straight face... and some wishful thinking)
Texans (seems unlikely but if BOB's team goes out in the first round and falls back next season - they have no QB after all so it could be quite a fall- and especially with the Colts and Luck reemerging, then goodbye)
Raiders (a very good QB emerging in Oakland but Del Rio? Come on! Eventually, the org comes to their senses and realizes in order to take the next step they need a new HC)
Packers (this is pretty self-evident I think. Rodgers is great and getting older and yet the Packers have been to just one SB with him... and you know McCarthy sucks at situational coaching)
Seahawks (Beast MODE! Beast MODE! still haunts the Pacific NW... just kidding Carroll's fine and not going anywhere)

Dan Quinn is safe in Atlanta, and 49ers' ownership isn't going to admit after just one season that they erred by hiring Tomsula. I don't think the Giants will force out Coughlin, but he might retire. Payton is a special case -- he won't get fired, but if he'd rather move on than lead a rebuilding process, it behooves the Saints to get a compensatory pick or two for Payton and bring in a coach who wants to be there.

I think Caldwell and Pagano will hang on in DET and IND, but I could be wrong about those (especially Caldwell). I don't think Pettine is certain to be fired in CLE either, but I think he's more likely than not to be sacked, so let's assume he's gone and Caldwell stays.

That would mean just four firings, plus Payton and possibly Coughlin. I'm less certain than you that Fisher will hang on with the Rams. Have you seen reports of that? If he goes, that brings total turnover up to 6-7, including 5 firings. That's basically an average year in today's NFL.

Edit: Fisher will be back next year.

http://m.stltoday.com/sports/rams-coach-jeff-fisher-will-be-back-next-year/article_df7dea0a-ac52-5a43-8f86-6753c3873ec9.html?mobile_touch=true

So despite all the talk of firings, I wouldn't be surprised if Mike McCoy in San Diego is the only non-interim coach who gets sacked on Black Monday this year.

 

[thehitcat]

One quibble Maufman and that's the widespread reports that Pagano is out in Indy after this year. But he's out of contract so it wouldn't be a true firing.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14474373/indianapolis-colts-retain-head-coach-chuck-pagano-end-season

 

[mauf]

One quibble Maufman and that's the widespread reports that Pagano is out in Indy after this year. But he's out of contract so it wouldn't be a true firing.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14474373/indianapolis-colts-retain-head-coach-chuck-pagano-end-season

Thanks, I missed that.

I tend to discount anonymously sourced reports of front-office drama, but it's telling that Pagano didn't get an extension a year ago after leading the Colts to the AFCCG. He's definitely out.

 

[DanoooME]

I believe I read that, assuming the NYJ win on Sunday, the Steelers will miss the playoffs for the 4th time in 5 years. They are almost always good or very good, but that is a near unacceptable run for that franchise. Tomlin gets one more year and I think he needs at least a run to the divisional or AFCCG to retain his job.

3rd time in 4 years. And any franchise that thinks it's unacceptable is a really spoiled fan base (like the Steelers). The Steelers haven't really sucked since Chuck Noll took over in the 70s. They had a run at the end of Noll's reign where they made the playoffs only once over a 7 year period and there was only one 5-11 season in that run. It took a lot of years of mediocrity until they moved on to Cowher. Tomlin's worst record as a coach is 8-8, so if that's not good enough, well, maybe they could hire Jeff Fisher or Norv Turner and see how they do.

Before the Steelers rose to prominence in 1972, they had exactly 1 playoff appearance (and zero playoff wins) in 39 years of existence. It should not be forgotten how bad things can get.

 

[Dehere]

I believe I read that, assuming the NYJ win on Sunday, the Steelers will miss the playoffs for the 4th time in 5 years. They are almost always good or very good, but that is a near unacceptable run for that franchise. Tomlin gets one more year and I think he needs at least a run to the divisional or AFCCG to retain his job.

I agree with this. Also note that they lost very possibly the best running back in the league for the year and they're still probably going to win ten games. Still, Tomlin's going to arrive at training camp in August with his seat already a bit warm. /endthreadjack

 

[mauf]

3rd time in 4 years. And any franchise that thinks it's unacceptable is a really spoiled fan base (like the Steelers). The Steelers haven't really sucked since Chuck Noll took over in the 70s. They had a run at the end of Noll's reign where they made the playoffs only once over a 7 year period and there was only one 5-11 season in that run. It took a lot of years of mediocrity until they moved on to Cowher. Tomlin's worst record as a coach is 8-8, so if that's not good enough, well, maybe they could hire Jeff Fisher or Norv Turner and see how they do.

Before the Steelers rose to prominence in 1972, they had exactly 1 playoff appearance (and zero playoff wins) in 39 years of existence. It should not be forgotten how bad things can get.

It's not that the team's performance is unacceptable in a vacuum; it's that a team with a top-5 QB and enviable pieces at the offensive skill positions ought to be better than the Steelers have been over the past few seasons.

 

[Al Zarilla]

I agree with this. Also note that they lost very possibly the best running back in the league for the year and they're still probably going to win ten games. Still, Tomlin's going to arrive at training camp in August with his seat already a bit warm. /endthreadjack

Are the Rooneys still the most patient owners in the NFL though? Oh yeah, hijack, this is a Kelly/Eagles thread.

 

[dynomite]

I agree with this. Also note that they lost very possibly the best running back in the league for the year and they're still probably going to win ten games. Still, Tomlin's going to arrive at training camp in August with his seat already a bit warm. /endthreadjack

And Big Ben missed all or parts of many games.

 

[dcmissle]

With regard to Tomlin, check Chuck Noll's record his first few seasons. And Cowher's. Then tell me you think Tomlin is really in jeopardy. Thankfully for Steelers fans, that is not the Rooney way.

Edit: things Rooneys get --

Continuity is important.

It is important in substantial part because the great majority of NFL HCs are League average or worse.

You can spend a lifetime ISO a HC significantly better than League average with no guarantee you'll get one. They had a gem in Arians in house and were content to send him off to retirement, not realizing what they had.

Tomlin at least is League average. Relatively deficient on game day? Perhaps. But the team plays hard for him and he has been able to sustain team culture. Name me someone obviously better who is not tied to another team.

So I get the loss at Baltimore was atrocious and highly costly. It happens. New England's loss at home to Philly was horrific but less costly -- though it still may cost them the 1 seed and send them on the road to get to the SB.

 

[tims4wins]

One other note on the Steelers: they haven't won a playoff game since after the 2010 season, when they lost in the SB to GB. So this will likely make 5 straight years without a playoff win. They are 0-2 in the playoffs in that span: last year's loss at home to Baltimore, and the 2011 loss @ Tebow. If they go another year without winning a playoff game next year I think you could see Tomlin get fired despite the continuity the Rooney's love.

 

[riboflav]

Dan Quinn is safe in Atlanta, and 49ers' ownership isn't going to admit after just one season that they erred by hiring Tomsula. I don't think the Giants will force out Coughlin, but he might retire. Payton is a special case -- he won't get fired, but if he'd rather move on than lead a rebuilding process, it behooves the Saints to get a compensatory pick or two for Payton and bring in a coach who wants to be there.

I think Caldwell and Pagano will hang on in DET and IND, but I could be wrong about those (especially Caldwell). I don't think Pettine is certain to be fired in CLE either, but I think he's more likely than not to be sacked, so let's assume he's gone and Caldwell stays.

That would mean just four firings, plus Payton and possibly Coughlin. I'm less certain than you that Fisher will hang on with the Rams. Have you seen reports of that? If he goes, that brings total turnover up to 6-7, including 5 firings. That's basically an average year in today's NFL.

Edit: Fisher will be back next year.

http://m.stltoday.com/sports/rams-coach-jeff-fisher-will-be-back-next-year/article_df7dea0a-ac52-5a43-8f86-6753c3873ec9.html?mobile_touch=true

So despite all the talk of firings, I wouldn't be surprised if Mike McCoy in San Diego is the only non-interim coach who gets sacked on Black Monday this year.

Mauf,

I agree with much of your analysis and my point was mainly that I see 11 potential changes not that they'll definitely occur.

Everyone keeps saying Quinn is a sure bet to stay on but if Dimitroff is gone which seems 50/50 at this point with all the reports flying around, then the new regime could easily make the change at HC.

Fisher staying is what I thought and it's why I listed him in the second category of those who may finally be fired next year. Just crazy how he continues to hold onto to one of the the most prestigious jobs (NFL HC) in America.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

Thanks, I missed that.

I tend to discount anonymously sourced reports of front-office drama, but it's telling that Pagano didn't get an extension a year ago after leading the Colts to the AFCCG. He's definitely out.

He was offered a 1 year extension but turned it down.

 

[soxfan121]

Fisher staying is what I thought and it's why I listed him in the second category of those who may finally be fired next year. Just crazy how he continues to hold onto to one of the the most prestigious jobs (NFL HC) in America.

Fisher might survive TWO franchise relocations. He was the Oilers coach when they became the Titans and he is the Rams coach as they potentially go from St. Louis to LA.

 

[LondonSox]

I will never understand the Fisher love. He sucks. His team's are always eh. His track record is average. He's the definition of mediocre. I guess that is what some want, safe.

It's why I loved the Eagles hire of Kelly. Go for it.

Andy Reid was a bold pick, and an excellent one.

OH and by the way roseman's best bud, a certain Colts GM so at least his buddy will give him some good advice. Or b.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

With regard to Tomlin, check Chuck Noll's record his first few seasons. And Cowher's. Then tell me you think Tomlin is really in jeopardy.

Cowher turned the Steelers around immediately. He went to the playoffs in each of his first six years, after the Steelers had missed them in six of the previous seven. Not sure how the Rooneys were demonstrating patience there.

 

[canderson]

Duce Staley is the frontrunner for this job, which seems weird.

 

[tims4wins]

Is he really? Wow. I think that would be a huge mistake that would set the organization back several years. He needs to have experience at the coordinator level first IMO.

 

[Shelterdog]

Is he really? Wow. I think that would be a huge mistake that would set the organization back several years. He needs to have experience at the coordinator level first IMO.

Rooney rule

 

[mauf]

If the Rooneys fire Tomlin next week (and I don't think they will), it will be because they're dissatisfied with the direction of the organization, at least insofar as coaching is concerned. That would suggest an outside hire; I can't see Tomlin getting sacked in favor of one of his assistants.

By the way, it would be great if a mod would merge this thread, which has largely moved on from the Kelly story, with the thread soxhop started.

 

[tims4wins]

Yeah that was my gut reaction too

 

[dcmissle]

Cowher turned the Steelers around immediately. He went to the playoffs in each of his first six years, after the Steelers had missed them in six of the previous seven. Not sure how the Rooneys were demonstrating patience there.

There was not a lot to turn around, as they were not abysmally bad under the final years of Noll. And it took Cowher 3 years to win his first playoff game, and the longest time to win the big one.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

LOL, okay. He won coach of the year, but you're right, sumnermissile, they were being patient.

 

[mauf]

There was not a lot to turn around, as they were not abysmally bad under the final years of Noll. And it took Cowher 3 years to win his first playoff game, and the longest time to win the big one.

That only suggests that the Steelers don't make stupid decisions based on SSS playoff performance -- Cowher was a top-5 coach throughout his tenure. And to be fair, the Steelers are under less pressure than any other organization to make changes just for the sake of making changes -- six rings buys you a lot of goodwill with the fan base.

 

[dcmissle]

Screw it -- 10 to 1 that Tomlin does not get fired. So, for example, if he does, I steer up to $1000 to Jimmy fund. If he doesn't get fired, you contribute $100.

To people who think Tomlin is in jeopardy, show some conviction.

 

[tims4wins]

I am as anti Tomlin as anyone but I don't think there is a chance he is fired until after the 2016 season, unless they start next year like 2-6 or something

 

[WayBackVazquez]

Strawman, chief. Not even the OP said he was going to get fired, and I certainly didn't. But your invocation of Cowher's first few seasons was off point. And it's going to be okay.

 

[LondonSox]

Is he really? Wow. I think that would be a huge mistake that would set the organization back several years. He needs to have experience at the coordinator level first IMO.

He's popular and well liked internally pre and post chip. Not a lot of coaches can say that.
But I don't think he's a front runner remotely. He will be a oc first. Would not put it past the Eagles to force him on someone. I'm that depressed

 

[Sox and Rocks]

Rooney rule

No doubt about it. Always smart to get it out of the way as soon as possible, and they just did

 

[LondonSox]

There is a ton of talk about duce being a great head coach eventually. But this would be pretty crazy bold/ stupid. It would also make me assume roseman has and wants total control and wants a pushover politically. Which is the sort of thing I scared of actually.

People forget the Patriots needed an injury and the tuck rule game to win that first superbowl and set up the powerhouse. Manchester United and Alex Ferguson needed a pretty lucky FA cup win to avoid an early sack after a disappointing start, and then went on to be a powerhouse.

Great franchises have stability and strength up top. The coaches are often tricky, or confrontational, but when they are winning everyone just agrees or are driven into the ground.

Lurie said today he thought they were on the verge of something special and this season was so inconsistent he was terribly disappointed.

Repeat. You thought you were on the verge of something special and this season was inconsistent.... So you blew it up. That's insane.

 

[Super Nomario]

My take on the Chip firing for ITP: http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/coaches/2016/01/04/let-the-chips-fall-kelly-fired-in-phildelphia/

Despite the impressive preseason, it’s not clear that the team was set up for success. Bradford never lived up to his draft status in St. Louis and had missed his team’s last 30 games with injuries. The Eagles added running backs DeMarco Murray and Ryan Mathews, but traded away LeSean McCoy. They lost leading receiver Jeremy Maclin in free agency, as well as starting guards Evan Mathis and Todd Herremans. The offense was not as talented as in 2013 or 2014.

...

It’s easy to criticize Kelly for the talent drain on offense – which also includes star wideout DeSean Jackson, who signed with division rival Washington in the 2014 off-season – but harder to explain how he could have kept together an offense including Jackson, Maclin, McCoy, Mathis, and Herremans. Even with all the departures, the Eagles are one of the highest-spending teams on offense, with 55% of their cap going to that side of the ball.

...

Those who expected Kelly to be a savior might be disappointed, but he wasn’t hired to be a savior – he was a hired to be a football coach.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

This article really sums up my feelings on Chip Kelly. The whole article is great and worth a read, but this sums it up well:

The fact of the matter is, we were fooled by a false prophet, hoodwinked by the promise of a revolution. Chip Kelly swashbuckled into town with an earned reputation for being aggressive and ballsy, for pushing the limits and demanding a breakneck, exciting brand of football. As an NFL neophyte in 2013, he delivered. There were the abysmal hiccups against the Cowboys, Giants and Vikings along the way, but the good far outweighed bad. It was downright amazing. IT WORKED. The offense hummed, setting a league record with 99 plays of 20 yards or more, and Chip's tempo fetish flourished. He deployed exotic formations, unleashed unprecedented "packaged" plays, went for it on fourth down with aplomb. The man was Big Balls Chip. He even went for a two-point conversion against the Chiefs in Week 3 that was designed brilliantly but not executed due to a missed block. Unfortunately, that would be the only time Chip ever called for a two-point conversion at an unconventional time. You would've thought the Eagles might go for two ONCE in 2015, when the new rules made it much more of a worthwhile option. But no. Chip lost his balls in 2015 -- he had no marbles -- and devolved into a conservative, milquetoast, run-of-the-mill head coach who hesitated to go for it on fourth down and far too often settled for field goal attempts. There was nothing imaginative about the offense. It was lazy, predictable, elementary and championed the two-yard swing pass a necessary staple of every drive. Chip didn't call what could be considered a "trick" play in 15 games. NOT ONE. Opposing defenses smiled and chuckled in between blowing up plays that they called out based on formations and tendencies.

I remember that 2pt conversion attempt vs KC well - the swinging gate. Didn't work, but it was great to see it and it was another sign that we had an innovator that was going to test boundaries and do new exciting things. And as the article states by and large it worked - the offense hummed. But the league is full of smart coaches that adapt, and two short seasons later the gig was up and we were left with one of the most predictable, boring, vanilla offense that was painful to watch. Opposing players literally called out the plays pre-snap. No adjustments. No creativity. No willingness to self-scout or re-evaluate during the season.

It's going to be interesting to see how he does in San Fran. Someone in the other thread said the league is better with Chip in it and I want to agree with that but it depends on who we get. Big balls 2013 Chip would be great and fun to watch and I hope we see him. But unless he has something new up his sleeve I think we'll get the 2015 version of Chip, and that version isn't long for this league.

 

[The Price Is Wrong]

If we were to list all the factors that make Bill Belichick a fantastic head coach, the very top of the list might well be that he isn't scared to do something unconventional or risky. He has no fear, in part because of self-confidence and preparation, in part because he flat-out doesn't give a crap what anyone thinks of him so the value to him of "fitting in" to public perceptions of what coaches should do is damn near zero.

The turnaround in Carolina, their general attitude of chutzpah and trust in their system, doubtless owes something to "Riverboat" Ron Rivera's similar tendencies.

I hope Chip regains his cojones and aims to surprise us in SF. That alone would make the Niners worth watching, regardless of roster talent and the Kapertrainwreck.

 

[crystalline]

an innovator that was going to test boundaries and do new exciting things. And as the article states by and large it worked - the offense hummed. But the league is full of smart coaches that adapt, and two short seasons later the gig was up and we were left with one of the most predictable, boring, vanilla offense that was painful to watch. Opposing players literally called out the plays pre-snap. No adjustments. No creativity. No willingness to self-scout or re-evaluate during the season.

It's interesting to compare him to Belichick, who adopted some of the up tempo ideas, but mixed them into the offense. And when they didn't work he moved away from them.

What happened to Chip this year? To me it's a bad sign he took the SF job. That could be a huge mess. I'd think he'd have been better off working for another smart coach for a year and trying to learn more about the NFL.

 

[LondonSox]

It wasn't this year. It got worse this year but his offence had been getting more vanilla and less exciting the year before. We all put that down to foles and Sanchez being freaking terrible and then the cornerbacks just sucking. Monkey balls. Then despite that he won 10 games. So get a qb and a secondary and go again.

But the offence this year was dull. When the offence can't run the ball there's no shot and then the defense is on the pitch the whole game and got hurt and broke down. It's a huge flaw in the game plan. If either side fails your dead.

I would still love to see kelly with a qb and an oline. He had it for half a season for foles and it was fun

 

[EricFeczko]

But the offence this year was dull. When the offence can't run the ball there's no shot and then the defense is on the pitch the whole game and got hurt and broke down. It's a huge flaw in the game plan. If either side fails your dead.

DeMarco Murray sucked as a running back, but Ryan Matthews was one of the most efficient RBs (5.0 Y/A) in the league. The problem was talent evaluation by Kelly at OL/QB/RB.
The notion that the running game sets up the offence is no longer true, and probably hasn't been true for several years (if not more). Feel free to examine any relationship you'd like, but there's little correlation between passing and running in 2015. For example, the correlation between running efficiency (Y/A), and passing efficiency (ANY/A) is -0.06. Furthermore, running the ball correlates very little with scoring. The largest correlation is between total running yards and scoring, which is 0.36 and indicates that 10 percent of variance in total running yards explains scoring. By way of comparison, the relationship between scoring and passing efficiency (ANY/A) is 0.81, and indicates that over 60 percent of variance in scoring can be explained by variance in passing efficiency.
This year the Eagles (3.9 Y/A) were slightly below the average in terms of running efficiency (4.1 +/- 0.37), and the Eagles (5.7) were slightly more below average in terms of passing efficiency (6.28 +/- 0.839). The bigger problem were turnovers, the eagles had the third highest number of turnovers (31). The number of turnovers were above average (23.3 +/- 5.7), and Sam Bradford (and the OL, to some extent, due to pressure) was responsible for 20 of them.
On offense, the problems this year were Bradford, Murray, and the OL, all of which were the result of decisions made by Kelly.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

Is this an Evan Mathis cautionary tale?

Edit punctuation

 

[LondonSox]

I don't know Bradford was a problem after the early part of the season. A number of his interceptions were drops or tips by the (awful) wide receivers. Who BTW belong in the Kelly talent evaluation.

And I disagree basically because Kelly is a through back in terms of run pass balance. He wants to be controlling pace via run game and drawing in extra run defenders then passing. What he did this year is not be able to run the ball, especially with Murray, and threw too much with a bad receiving core and an average (but inproving) qb. That's just not going to work.

A bigger slam on Kelly the coach is how he constantly allowed the defense to set the lineup. Ie the defense would line up in the nickel he would not often enough for me go two TE set and slam in until they adjusted. Instead he'd stay 3 wide and run. Which makes sense but that is what the defense wants you to do. And he didn't have the talent to get that done. So instead he'd end up in third and and long with the hurry up doing little as they were already in passing defense and then have to hope Bradford and his receivers could beat the defense.

Constantly we saw this. The defense dictating the offense, and with Kelly getting more and more predictable on a small playbook.
Now if he had a running game and an oline then you run it until the defense stacks the box then you speed up and hit it deep on the play action. Etc. He just didn't have the talent and couldn't adjust. I think that spoke badly of the coach.

That said I wouldn't ever fire someone off one bad season as a GM. If he repeats and the coach aide can't adjust either. Fine move on.

Bottom line roseman runs the Eagles again and he sucks. And just hired either the next Andy Reid out of no where coach no one else was looking at (just like reid) or a nice patsy for roseman.

Meanwhile the gamble Kelly pair roseman got out of town just got handed the niners. If they reboot that franchise roseman will be left looking dumb unless this goes well.

In short I think the Eagles are f ed for a couple years until the bloom is off the roseman

 

[Oil Can Dan]

I don't know Bradford was a problem after the early part of the season. A number of his interceptions were drops or tips by the (awful) wide receivers. Who BTW belong in the Kelly talent evaluation.

And I disagree basically because Kelly is a through back in terms of run pass balance. He wants to be controlling pace via run game and drawing in extra run defenders then passing. What he did this year is not be able to run the ball, especially with Murray, and threw too much with a bad receiving core and an average (but inproving) qb. That's just not going to work.

A bigger slam on Kelly the coach is how he constantly allowed the defense to set the lineup. Ie the defense would line up in the nickel he would not often enough for me go two TE set and slam in until they adjusted. Instead he'd stay 3 wide and run. Which makes sense but that is what the defense wants you to do. And he didn't have the talent to get that done. So instead he'd end up in third and and long with the hurry up doing little as they were already in passing defense and then have to hope Bradford and his receivers could beat the defense.

Constantly we saw this. The defense dictating the offense, and with Kelly getting more and more predictable on a small playbook.
Now if he had a running game and an oline then you run it until the defense stacks the box then you speed up and hit it deep on the play action. Etc. He just didn't have the talent and couldn't adjust. I think that spoke badly of the coach.

That said I wouldn't ever fire someone off one bad season as a GM. If he repeats and the coach aide can't adjust either. Fine move on.

Bottom line roseman runs the Eagles again and he sucks. And just hired either the next Andy Reid out of no where coach no one else was looking at (just like reid) or a nice patsy for roseman.

Meanwhile the gamble Kelly pair roseman got out of town just got handed the niners. If they reboot that franchise roseman will be left looking dumb unless this goes well.

In short I think the Eagles are f ed for a couple years until the bloom is off the roseman

Here's a great post about the Chip Kelly philosophy and how it all went to shit in 2015.

To put it bluntly, the Chip Kelly we fell in love with just stopped showing up on the chalkboard in 2015. The offense we saw in 2015 was a stripped down version of what we saw in 2013 and 2014 and lacked any imagination, creativity or evolution as defenses around the league continued to adjust and catch up. Furthermore, it seemed in 3 years Chip Kelly's offense lacked some of the fundamental concepts and philosophies that need to be considered and applied in the pro game. Here is my post-mortem and likely final chapter on Chip Kelly's offense.

It's well worth a read for anyone looking to really understand how it all fell apart.

As for how he'll do in SF, I do not believe you can run a tempo system that has your defense play around 200 more snaps than the fewest play defense and succeed. The Eagles defense played about three more games than the Seahawks defense last season. Perhaps that number declines a little with better offensive or defensive performance, so lets call it two more games. How can a Kelly led team be as effective in January as other playoff teams when his players have played two more games than the rest? And it's not just the defense - the offense as well. Per Lane Johnson they practice exactly the same too, so it isn't just the games that are taking the extra toll. Do you think you would do better or worse playing offensive line if you ran 80 fast-paced plays vs 60 regular plays per game? Which scenario do you think would lead to more mistakes? Is it any wonder the Eagles were 2nd in offensive turnovers, 3rd in penalties and had the highest drop percentage in the league? All that and Chip not once decided "hey, maybe we need to slow shit down and fix the basics"...

Whatever. I've been wrong before and will be again, but I don't think this is going to work at this level with older, veteran players with a limited roster size. Chip needs to improvise or he'll be back in college in two years.

 

[Van Everyman]

Is there a case to be made that Chip's biggest problem was his ego – in particular that he chased a lot of talent out of town that wouldn't, in GoT parlance, "bend the knee"?

How much better would the 2015 Eagles have been with McCoy? Would his numbers have suffered the same fate as Murray absent Mathis?

 

[dcmissle]

Even assuming Foles was fool's gold, which may prove absolutely right, I never understood the switch to Bradford, especially with the 2nd rounder thrown in. Seemed to me they were fighting with an arm tied behind their backs all year -- Bradford isn't a running threat, and even if he were, there is the health history.

And if the point was that Bradford was transitional, I'd ask *to who and at what additional costs?*

Maybe this is just another way of highlighting that he has no GM chops. And that's reason enough to let him go if he wasn't going to surrender the GM hat.

I wish him much better luck in SF with a much more suitable QB.