Eagles Fired Chip Kelly

natpastime162

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How many of those assistants are going to sign on to more front office turmoil?
What turmoil is present for the next coach? Roster questions certainly, but turmoil seems a poor word choice. Jeffrey Lurie has hired a total of 3 head coaches in over 2 decades. He gave personnel control to the most recent two. How many teams have had less head coaches since Lurie first hired Ray Rhodes? The Steelers maybe
 

Hoya81

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What turmoil is present for the next coach? Roster questions certainly, but turmoil seems a poor word choice. Jeffrey Lurie has hired a total of 3 head coaches in over 2 decades. He gave personnel control to the most recent two. How many teams have had less head coaches since Lurie first hired Ray Rhodes? The Steelers maybe
There was some messy behind the scenes stuff at the end of the Reid era involving Joe Banner and Howie Roseman that got a lot of play in the Philly press and sports radio.
 

Oil Can Dan

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Same thing he said on his way in to Philly. And by all accounts had he agreed to giving up personnel decisions earlier today he'd still be a head coach in the NFL. But that's Chip for ya.

Whatever. I like the idea of Chip Kelly but the Chip Kelly of today is not going to be a success without a lot of change happening. Hopefully he'll learn from the many mistakes he's made in Philly.

I'd really like to see Hue Jackson get a long look. Not sure what to make of Daniels. Obviously impressed but how much of the Pats offensive success is his and not TB/BB's? And would BB support a move to Philly for him, or is Daniels the eventual BB replacement in New England?
 

singaporesoxfan

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Same thing he said on his way in to Philly. And by all accounts had he agreed to giving up personnel decisions earlier today he'd still be a head coach in the NFL. But that's Chip for ya.

Whatever. I like the idea of Chip Kelly but the Chip Kelly of today is not going to be a success without a lot of change happening. Hopefully he'll learn from the many mistakes he's made in Philly.
Kelly left the Eagles the same way his offenses left the field: three and out.
 

dcmissle

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Same thing he said on his way in to Philly. And by all accounts had he agreed to giving up personnel decisions earlier today he'd still be a head coach in the NFL. But that's Chip for ya.

Whatever. I like the idea of Chip Kelly but the Chip Kelly of today is not going to be a success without a lot of change happening. Hopefully he'll learn from the many mistakes he's made in Philly.

I'd really like to see Hue Jackson get a long look. Not sure what to make of Daniels. Obviously impressed but how much of the Pats offensive success is his and not TB/BB's? And would BB support a move to Philly for him, or is Daniels the eventual BB replacement in New England?
A lot of us liked the idea of Chip Kelly and wished this would have worked out.

The request to surrender personnel control, and Chip's rejection of it, leaves Chip without any defense.
 

BigSoxFan

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A lot of us liked the idea of Chip Kelly and wished this would have worked out.

The request to surrender personnel control, and Chip's rejection of it, leaves Chip without any defense.
It also left him without a QB, good WRs, and an expensive, declining RB.
 

LondonSox

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People saying chip Kelly sucked and didn't influence the game are just idiots.
The read option was here before Kelly and will be here after him, and the use of packaged plays etc is likely his immediate legacy.

I'm hugely disappointed. I was a big fan of Kelly and loved the hiring. His results I'm year one with a garbage qb were very good and I think underappreciated

He won ten games for two years and then used a really bad draft to seize GM power he wasn't ready for. And it all went to shit. His team this year was a mess. Most of all the offensive line which he continued to not address in the draft, but also not in free agency. This was mainly depth though, then he fell out with Mathis and cut him. The line has been a disaster and that's hurt the run game and Bradford. But he did screw that up royally. Extending Peters despite his age, and the he was hurt all year and to top it off Kelce had his worst year of his career.

The other pain for Kelly has been how just plain awful Alonso has been. And of course Murray. I was a fan of trading shady for Alonso due to rb being replaceable. Shady always fought the Kelly way. I never like paying a rb that much. But to trade one and then repeat the mistake on one coming off that workload for that much was a dumb move then and worse now.

With the line like crap, running game stumbled and the offense lost confidence and imploded. Drops, poor wr plays the works.

I really am shocked though one season on non double digit wins and gone. He obviously is hard to work with for some and I get the trend in team play has been bad and the GM move has been bad really. But given the Eagles track record of patience in coaching in recent years I'm shocked.
 

LondonSox

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The more I think about this the worse the situation looks.
Roseman is back, a guy who wanted control despite zero football background and got it... And sacked. Horrible draft. The Cooper extension was him, the Mccoy contract which ended being a big factor in that move was on him. While Kelly didn't address the line in his year, roseman didn't other than the Johnson pick.

He was clearly involved in the Kelly firing and he's got control again. He needs to go or anyone coming in is screwed.

Lurie did such a great job being an owner under Reid this is very unexpected. Roseman needs to go. Let alone not lead the choice for the next head coach.
 

TomRicardo

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I'm not surprised media types were waiting to pounce, but this one surprised me:

treywingo: Chip Kelly revolutionized nothing in the NFL. Everything he tried to do had been done before by other coaches only better
[youtube][/youtube]
 

Oil Can Dan

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The more I think about this the worse the situation looks.
Roseman is back, a guy who wanted control despite zero football background and got it... And sacked. Horrible draft. The Cooper extension was him, the Mccoy contract which ended being a big factor in that move was on him. While Kelly didn't address the line in his year, roseman didn't other than the Johnson pick.

He was clearly involved in the Kelly firing and he's got control again. He needs to go or anyone coming in is screwed.

Lurie did such a great job being an owner under Reid this is very unexpected. Roseman needs to go. Let alone not lead the choice for the next head coach.
I don't think Roseman is some great football mind, but I also think it's ridiculous to point a finger his way as the cause of the Eagles problems. And I'm not sure what you're getting at by pointing out that Roseman, one of the top Eagle executives, was "involved" in Kelly's firing. Chip Kelly doesn't pass any test you care to provide and his firing should come as no shock to anyone. Statistics, eye-test, common sense, whatever - he fails all of them. The team has gotten materially worse each year during his time. He was a disaster, and he was going to continue being a disaster so Lurie, a rational, thoughtful and measured owner by all accounts, pulled the trigger now. That in and of itself tells you something about the situation inside the Novacare walls.
 

EricFeczko

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I don't think Roseman is some great football mind, but I also think it's ridiculous to point a finger his way as the cause of the Eagles problems. And I'm not sure what you're getting at by pointing out that Roseman, one of the top Eagle executives, was "involved" in Kelly's firing. Chip Kelly doesn't pass any test you care to provide and his firing should come as no shock to anyone. Statistics, eye-test, common sense, whatever - he fails all of them. The team has gotten materially worse each year during his time. He was a disaster, and he was going to continue being a disaster so Lurie, a rational, thoughtful and measured owner by all accounts, pulled the trigger now. That in and of itself tells you something about the situation inside the Novacare walls.
I think this statement goes too far in the opposite direction. The Eagles fell apart this year, when GM Chip Kelly dramatically altered the roster. Chip's inability to evaluate talent is reflected in the Eagles W-L record and net points by year:

Eagles W-L record and net points by year:
2013, 10-6, 60
2014, 10-6, 74
2015, 6-9, -58

As dcm and others have pointed out, Chip's problem wasn't his coaching, but talent evaluation. The Eagles floundered this year, when Chip was given full control of personnel. He thought a bottom third QB with multiple ACL surgeries that hadn't thrown a pass in nearly two years was worth two draft picks plus Nick Foles; he thought investing heavily in RBs (specifically Murray) was a good idea; he paid little attention to the OL.

Despite the optimism of some posters here, many of us (e.g. SN, KFP, myself) thought he made terrible moves, and predicted that the Eagles would flounder. Many in the media made similar comments. Those predictions proved prescient when the Eagles floundered in the weakest division in the NFC. Stripping Chip of his GM responsibilities is a predictable and reasonable move. The fact that Chip balked at losing such responsibilities reflects immaturity on his part, which is disconcerting.

If Chip is smart and wants to become a good HC+GM (in the NFL), he'll take a job (either as HC or OC) under a good GM and learn how to evaluate players. It will be interesting to see where he goes next.

EDIT: That reminds me... @Kull: Sorry about the Eagles this year. We've got one more game left, but Bradford is current 25th in DVOA.
 

Oil Can Dan

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I think this statement goes too far in the opposite direction. The Eagles fell apart this year, when GM Chip Kelly dramatically altered the roster. Chip's inability to evaluate talent is reflected in the Eagles W-L record and net points by year:

Eagles W-L record and net points by year:
2013, 10-6, 60
2014, 10-6, 74
2015, 6-9, -58

As dcm and others have pointed out, Chip's problem wasn't his coaching, but talent evaluation. The Eagles floundered this year, when Chip was given full control of personnel. He thought a bottom third QB with multiple ACL surgeries that hadn't thrown a pass in nearly two years was worth two draft picks plus Nick Foles; he thought investing heavily in RBs (specifically Murray) was a good idea; he paid little attention to the OL.

Despite the optimism of some posters here, many of us (e.g. SN, KFP, myself) thought he made terrible moves, and predicted that the Eagles would flounder. Many in the media made similar comments. Those predictions proved prescient when the Eagles floundered in the weakest division in the NFC. Stripping Chip of his GM responsibilities is a predictable and reasonable move. The fact that Chip balked at losing such responsibilities reflects immaturity on his part, which is disconcerting.

If Chip is smart and wants to become a good HC+GM (in the NFL), he'll take a job (either as HC or OC) under a good GM and learn how to evaluate players. It will be interesting to see where he goes next.

EDIT: That reminds me... @Kull: Sorry about the Eagles this year. We've got one more game left, but Bradford is current 25th in DVOA.
I think we can all agree that Chip seems to be terrible at talent evaluation.

What makes you say that Chip was an effective coach? I saw a guy that refused to adjust his philosophy to fit his players/situation. Why would you continue to run a fast-break offense when your QB is learning on the job, your skill position players are dropping passes like they're hot potatoes and your defense is folding under the pressure? Why would you not run Murray in an I set when he clearly isn't able to run out of the shotgun? Chip has said in the past that he likes to ask "why is that thing done that way"; well why was he still going fast pace when his players clearly couldn't handle it on either side of the ball?

Other components of coaching in todays NFL - relating to players, having their back and making them want to run through walls for you. How many press conferences did I need to see where Kelly laid the failures of that particular week on "execution"? That's code for "it was the players' fault", and the players know it. Is it any wonder why these players quit on him? Why does Jeffrey Lurie need to give a fire & brimstone speech to the team before the Pats game to get them fired up? Isn't that part of Kelly's job?

Putting aside the horrendous personnel moves there wasn't anything I saw on the coaching front that made me think Chip Kelly deserves a head coaching job. He failed to adjust. He failed to motivate players. He failed to learn. He failed to improve. He failed at just about all of it. I'm happy to hear otherwise but in watching or listening on the radio to every Eagle game Chip Kelly coached I'm not seeing any evidence that coaching was not a problem.
 

Oil Can Dan

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Some scathing words from Lane Johnson:

Johnson hopes that direction is away from Kelly's tempo. Johnson confirmed what ex-Eagles cornerback Cary Williams said early in 2014: Chippah runs his guys too hard.

"Get back to a more traditional style of offense," Johnson said. "I've been running this tempo (bleep) since college. I'm pretty damned tired. It takes a toll on you. You do it over a period of time, a lot of guys in this league aren't going to last . . . Bigger guys, it's harder on your joints. A lot of pounding. Your hips. Your back. All you're doing is torquing all day."
Johnson called Kelly a "brilliant coach," but even then qualified the statement. Asking grown men from the ages of 22 to 35 to perform over 17 weeks the same way growing men from 18 to 22 perform over 13 weeks is ridiculous, Johnson said, and he hoped Kelly would finally figure that out.
There's more at the link.
 

riboflav

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Kelly's firing got me to thinking about all the teams that may turn over their coach this year (or next).

At least a decent chance these teams are all looking for new head coaches this offseason (11 teams which is ridiculous):

Dolphins
Browns
Colts
Titans
Chargers
Eagles
Giants
Lions
Saints
Falcons
49ers

Once potential possibilities but now seem secure:

Bills (ownership backing Rex in a desperate need for stability no matter the cost)
Bengals (a Dalton-less first round exit probably saves Lewis again)
Jags (slight on-field improvement this year and ownership already has said no changes)
Chiefs (not the toughest schedule but Reid turns the team around and is now the hottest team in the AFC not named the Jets)
Cowboys (no Romo)
Bucs (Lovie getting it done, well sort of... but low bar helps)
Rams (no idea how he manages to fool everyone, but Fisher now with just 6 winning seasons in 21 tries)

Potential cast offs next season (not including those listed above):

Ravens (another dismal season and folks will start murmuring about wasting Flacco's prime. Yes, I wrote that with a forced straight face... and some wishful thinking)
Texans (seems unlikely but if BOB's team goes out in the first round and falls back next season - they have no QB after all so it could be quite a fall- and especially with the Colts and Luck reemerging, then goodbye)
Raiders (a very good QB emerging in Oakland but Del Rio? Come on! Eventually, the org comes to their senses and realizes in order to take the next step they need a new HC)
Packers (this is pretty self-evident I think. Rodgers is great and getting older and yet the Packers have been to just one SB with him... and you know McCarthy sucks at situational coaching)
Seahawks (Beast MODE! Beast MODE! still haunts the Pacific NW... just kidding Carroll's fine and not going anywhere)
 

JohnnyK

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I don't see any way Quinn gets sacked in Atlanta; he just completed his first year, despite the major collapse the team will finish no worse than .500, and the heat seems to be focusing on Dmitroff (they do not have one player from the 2012 draft remaining on the roster).

Even a new GM would be stupid to fire him; Quinn would be an easy scapegoat if next year doesn't work out either, and then a new coach can come in and benefit from the new GM's moves.
 

Average Reds

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Some scathing words from Lane Johnson:

There's more at the link.
Johnson's comments are classic second guesses. If Kelly had the right people in place and the team had shown improvement, none of the Johnson's observations would matter. He wouldn't be an "unrealistic coach who burns players out by working them too hard" he'd be "a determined visionary who gets more out of his players than they thought was possible."

Kelly the coach was undermined by Kelly the spectacularly incompetent General Manager.

Shades of Rick Pitino in Boston.
I'm not close enough to know exactly why Pitino blew up in Boston, but this feels right.
 

gryoung

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I think we can all agree that Chip seems to be terrible at talent evaluation.

What makes you say that Chip was an effective coach? I saw a guy that refused to adjust his philosophy to fit his players/situation. Why would you continue to run a fast-break offense when your QB is learning on the job, your skill position players are dropping passes like they're hot potatoes and your defense is folding under the pressure? Why would you not run Murray in an I set when he clearly isn't able to run out of the shotgun? Chip has said in the past that he likes to ask "why is that thing done that way"; well why was he still going fast pace when his players clearly couldn't handle it on either side of the ball?

Other components of coaching in todays NFL - relating to players, having their back and making them want to run through walls for you. How many press conferences did I need to see where Kelly laid the failures of that particular week on "execution"? That's code for "it was the players' fault", and the players know it. Is it any wonder why these players quit on him? Why does Jeffrey Lurie need to give a fire & brimstone speech to the team before the Pats game to get them fired up? Isn't that part of Kelly's job?

Putting aside the horrendous personnel moves there wasn't anything I saw on the coaching front that made me think Chip Kelly deserves a head coaching job. He failed to adjust. He failed to motivate players. He failed to learn. He failed to improve. He failed at just about all of it. I'm happy to hear otherwise but in watching or listening on the radio to every Eagle game Chip Kelly coached I'm not seeing any evidence that coaching was not a problem.
This is pretty much where I am on Kelly. I didn't see any of the much-anticipated "football genius". He certainly didn't impact the game like many folks preached he would.

Maybe he'll follow a BB path - learn from his mistakes and be much better if/when he gets another chance.

Maybe he's just not suited for the pro game and belongs in college where his genius is more evident.
 

dcdrew10

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Bill Belichick comes to Chip's defense, saying that a lot of the players Kelly cut "aren't really doing too much for anybody else either." Burn. He's not completely wrong, but he's not completely right either.

 
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GeorgeCostanza

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Johnson's comments are classic second guesses. If Kelly had the right people in place and the team had shown improvement, none of the Johnson's observations would matter. He wouldn't be an "unrealistic coach who burns players out by working them too hard" he'd be "a determined visionary who gets more out of his players than they thought was possible."

Kelly the coach was undermined by Kelly the spectacularly incompetent General Manager.



I'm not close enough to know exactly why Pitino blew up in Boston, but this feels right.
It's close I think. A huge part of what made Pitino a spectacular failure in Boston was his personnel moves. But a not so small part of it is that he ran them like a college team. Literally, ran them up and down the court. You don't full court press in the NBA for significant minutes.
 

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Pitino also gave Chauncey Billups like 3 games to prove that he was a good player and traded a pick that could have been Shawn Marion or Andre Miller for Vitaly Potapenko. His lack of patience was terrible.
 

dcmissle

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Bill Belichick comes to Chip's defense, saying that a lot of the players Kelly cut "aren't really doing too much for anybody else either." Burn. He's not completely wrong, but he's not completely right either.

Even though he was down for much of the year, Washington does not win the division this year without DeSean Jackson. And maybe Philly does. And Kelly gave him away to a division rival. For nothing.
 

GeorgeCostanza

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Pitino also gave Chauncey Billups like 3 games to prove that he was a good player and traded a pick that could have been Shawn Marion or Andre Miller for Vitaly Potapenko. His lack of patience was terrible.
Thanks a lot jerkstore! I had completely blocked from memory the Vitaly Potapenko era. Turn the #3 pick in the draft Billups into Kenny "I'm tryin' to find my car" Anderson after 1/4 of a season. SMH.
 

Stitch01

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Even though he was down for much of the year, Washington does not win the division this year without DeSean Jackson. And maybe Philly does. And Kelly gave him away to a division rival. For nothing.
Meh, Jackson is probably cut this offseason as well he's not worth that contract. BB is overstating things, those players have been OK, but the problem has been the players signed, the terrible oline, and the bad quarterback, not DeSean Jackson.
 

dcmissle

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Reading about all the dysfunction going on with this team...how the hell did we lose to them? At home?
Massive failure on special teams and too many big plays. Philly had a lot riding on that game and played well. It had everything riding on Saturday night's game and played poorly. Inconsistency is a mark of a lot of bad teams.
 

dcmissle

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In Kelly's favor, his Eagles made the playoffs once and threatened to a second time. Pitino never even sniffed the playoffs here. It doesn't appear that Kelly is leaving behind a Paul Pierce level star in Philly for the next guy.
Absolutely.

ESPN's piece about BB's remarks on Kelly is worth reading. It is not Chip specific. It's a pretty broad indictment on how owners treat HCs in the League.

It takes 4 years to install your program. I can't really speak to the specifics of any team situation, but these guys are good coaches, and so forth.

The takeaway is that Khan probably is being smart in giving Bradley a 4th year, and that most in this billionaires club are short sighted, impatient fools.
 

LondonSox

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I don't really agree with you here oil can.

Roseman was a bad GM, he was a finance guy with no really skill or ability in talent judgment. His drafts have been horrible.

I think it's clear roseman and Kelly as some kind of unclear partnership was not working. It had to be resolved. It was resolved in a horrible way.
First roseman can't stay to whisper poison a d undermine Kelly. He had to go.
Now Kelly has been undermined and Lurie wanted to put roseman back in charge. That is different from putting in a new GM. Putting one back in who failed and clashed with Kelly is insane, and of course he needs to refuse that. It was inevitable if presented that way.

Was Kelly a successful GM? No. But also he had one freaking year. He supposedly wanted to draft linemen but had a run on them ahead of his picks. I think give the positive impression from the likes of hicks and Shepherd who were picked instead of reaching on a lineman is long term the right move. Short term it hurt Kelly and then cost him his job before he could use a second year to correct.

I think it's insane to give a guy one year only. You make a mistake and you're done. No way to go. I had no issues with a number of moves. The ones I hated were cutting Mathis and signing Murray. And I was vocal on both. Once it became clear the line was an issue I don't see any real way he had to fix it mid season.

He was not impressing as a coach. That's fair. But he won 20 games without a qb the previous two years. That's not nothing. He's got the best record of a three year coach to be fired EVER.

Roseman who is bad, and was fired for it now takes over. Why is that going to go well. Roseman is shit, a political douche with great contract and cap knowledge but no ability to scout.

This is awful. Lurie has fucked this hard. The Eagles are now adrift until roseman is gone and they start over. You will never get a top guy to serve under that asshole. He is not good enough to build a team, and won't be able to get the best coach. This is a mess. I fully expect several years of mess.

Bradford has notably improved in the second half of the season, they should sign him but they won't as a stupid vindictive move to Kelly. So someone is going to benefit from that.

As long as roseman is there and Lurie is acting like a moron this franchise is in trouble. Which sucks as the division is garbage and the two qbs of note are likely headed for the decline with no replacements around. And the racists are about to extend cousins. Is his half season foles fluke or real change? If a fluke this division is broken for a while.
 

crystalline

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The request to surrender personnel control, and Chip's rejection of it, leaves Chip without any defense.
Not sure about that.

As London is saying, was the request to surrender personnel control, or to surrender personnel control to Roseman? After what happened the past two years Lurie must have known there's no way Kelly was going to stay to work with Roseman again.

As long as roseman is there and Lurie is acting like a moron this franchise is in trouble.
Yes.

That said Kelly might have forced this by totally losing the locker room (and fans. Philly talk radio has been pretty brutal). Agreed that an owner should give a coach four years, but if there was a player rebellion as it looked from the outside its hard to give the coach another year.
 
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dcmissle

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I grant you that. If the demand was to surrender personnel to Roseman, then Lurie has to know that's a non-starter and Chip would never stay.
 

Oil Can Dan

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Lurie stated at his press conference that he did not offer Chip the opportunity to stay under any circumstance.