What an unbelievable cluster fuck. So in essence, there's no convincing proof of any wrongdoing as to the charge. But because Goodell has other consituencies that would frown on him vacating the suspension, he will uphold it. #IntegrityCorsi said:
What an unbelievable cluster fuck. So in essence, there's no convincing proof of any wrongdoing as to the charge. But because Goodell has other consituencies that would frown on him vacating the suspension, he will uphold it. #IntegrityCorsi said:
dcmissle said:We don't know the source, but Schefter is the League's #1 mouthpiece, esp after the NFL left in tatters any credibility that Mort once had.
It is not in the League's interest to allow this "strong case" characterization to linger if it's going to rubber stamp 4 games. I predicted no reduction, but if that is the way it comes out, it will now be surprising and RG will look like an a-hole.
More simply put, if Schefter came out with this and the NFL viewed the situation differently, somebody would probably be out with a "not-so-fast" statement.
Per a league source, Brady simply reiterated his denial regarding any involvement in or knowledge of whatever it was that John Jastremski and Jim McNally may have been doing with the team’s footballs. When pressed on certain facts relating to Brady’s potential knowledge or involvement, the answers were regarded by some in the room (i.e., some who aren’t paid to exonerate Brady) as not entirely credible.
Not only that but they also sent a letter to te Pats with the wrong information!BigJimEd said:The reports by espn guy do have me a little optimistic but then I think back to the beginning if this nonsense and it goes away.
Particularly this point
Not only did they not correct it publicly but held the information from the Patriots. Brady and Belichick held their press conferences based on inaccurate information.
BannedbyNYYFans.com said:
And right on cue....
MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
Sorry, he won't literally have to answer a million questions.
But I think it will cause a lot of the media to focus on all the other things that have been largely ignored. And aside from that, there will be a large contingent of angry people who just had their red meat taken away who will also have a lot of questions.
I suppose he can ignore all of that, but it likely won't leave him in a good place.
simplyeric said:But on a bigger issue:
If Roger called the owners and said 'looki have even more evidence now that Brady is guilty, BUT I've become convinced that further pursuit of this will damage our negotiations and possibly cause a federal issue regarding our monopoly protections, so I'm vacating the whole thing.' Would the other owners say 'fuck it I want my revenge' or would they say 'bury it and keep the $$$ coming'. ?
I don't really see the vast majority of the owners as bloodthirsty Patriots haters, more they are willing to tow the line to avoid the shitburger. It cannot be lost on the owners that Goodell, right or wrong, forced Kraft to eat the biggest shitburger in the history of their organization and they all realize that Kraft has zero recourse. If any did not tow the line or spoke publicly against the authority of the commissioner they could be next. Motivated by fear and greed.Average Reds said:The vast majority of the other owners believe that the Pats are guilty. Do you think they will "fade away?" Hell, they'll call for Goodell's head.
It's simply not happening.
It cannot consistently with NFL's position that Goodell is properly acting as reviewing judge. This is nonsense.snowmanny said:I thought the suspension couldn't be extended.
I12XU said:I don't really see the vast majority of the owners as bloodthirsty Patriots haters, more they are willing to tow the line to avoid the shitburger. It cannot be lost on the owners that Goodell, right or wrong, forced Kraft to eat the biggest shitburger in the history of their organization and they all realize that Kraft has zero recourse. If any did not tow the line or spoke publicly against the authority of the commissioner they could be next. Motivated by fear and greed.
Ed Hillel said:Brunell just called Brady not accepting a reduced sentence "selfish" because it's a distraction to the team. Love him.
The distraction argument is the biggest Strawman in the history of sports.Ed Hillel said:Brunell just called Brady not accepting a reduced sentence "selfish" because it's a distraction to the team. Love him.
Oh man. Ok let me clarify: I don't believe that my hypothetical is actualy the case. All im saying is, everyone is hating on how the other owners want the pound of flesh from the Pats, so Roger can't drop the whole thing. But peope are talking a lot about the court case and the union issue. If Roger's advisors (surely smarter than him) thought that it was more beneficial ($) to drop the penalties than to pursue them, do you think the owners would be satisfied. I drew up an extreme hypotheticalElcaballitoMVP said:
It's not a bigger issue. It's one you created in your mind. And you're giving Rog way too much credit. He isn't burying any evidence that proves Brady is guilty. Anyone with a brain and willing to look at this objectively knows the Wells Report is b.s. and that's the whole basis for the penalty. Now you're saying he's got the smoking gun but he's going to bury it? All because this brilliant commish foresees a potential federal issue with their monopoly protections? Nothing about this guy makes me think he's got that in him.
Well Florio is now reflecting some push back against Tom was A+. So contra leaking may have begun. Would not be surprised is there is tug of war within NFL Offuce about what to do.TheoShmeo said:He was not the source of anything previously.
I actually came across the guy when he was at his hedge fund years ago and had not heard that he left and was working in the NFL.
I don't disagree that he's wrong about Brady getting more games.
I do think it's interesting in that it's a counterpoint to the emerging positive consensus regarding Brady's performance. It's possible that some on the NFL side are reflecting back to the other owners a less glowing view of Tom's testimony and that might portend what Goodell will do.
My friend said that the guy was totally enraged.
FWIW, which may be nothing.
I imagine Vincent is not super keen on the suspension being overturned.dcmissle said:Well Florio is now reflecting some push back against Tom was A+. So contra leaking may have begun. Would not be surprised is there is tug of war within NFL Offuce about what to do.
Agreed. Roger is going to stand firm and show everyone he's a tough guy. If he loses in court (again), so be it.Ralphwiggum said:That latest Florio piece encapsulates my thinking on the subject. There is no logic or rational thinking going on in the NFL front office, and there hasn't been since this whole thing started, which is why the suspension is not getting reduced or vacated. This is about Roger re-establishing his bona-fides as a hard ass after blowing the Rice thing, and disabusing the public and 31 other owners of the notion that he's Bob Kraft's puppet.
dcmissle said:Well Florio is now reflecting some push back against Tom was A+. So contra leaking may have begun. Would not be surprised is there is tug of war within NFL Offuce about what to do.
He'll reduce the sentence to 2 games, but no, he isn't just going to say: we were wrong, sorry guys.tims4wins said:
Yup, for anyone who had their hopes up (and this includes me, to some extent), this should bring us back to reality: Rog ain't budging.
KenTremendous said:He'll reduce the sentence to 2 games, but no, he isn't just going to say: we were wrong, sorry guys.
This is the essential problem with the way Goodell runs the Justice Thunder Fist of the NFL Front Office. He wants the league to be the military, with strict codes and punishments and Serious Things Taken Seriously. But it's not. It's a big sloppy sports league. Most on-field stuff should be dealt with by saying "knock it off," but he never says "knock it off," he only says "How dare you!"
And when you deal with every tiny thing by saying "How dare you?!" you end up stepping in it, all the time. You commit a massive amount of resources and money and PR capital to determine whether two guys might have done something that no one has ever cared about, and that investigation completely misreads (willfully or accidentally) the science behind what happened -- which, again, no one knew about, because no one had ever cared about the gameplay issue it affected. But by turning over $5 million worth of legal rocks you discovered some grubby behavior. So you yell "How dare you!" the loudest you've ever yelled it -- because maybe recently some people have pointed out that you didn't really yell "How dare you!" to a couple guys who deserved to be yelled at, and you looked stupid. So you yell, you yell a lot, you yell so loudly that no one will ever be able to accuse you of not yelling!
Then a bunch of reasonable people point out that the science that justified all that yelling might have actually been wrong. This isn't really your fault, necessarily -- because who the fuck ever cared about the Ideal Gas Law in football? Who even knew this was a thing? -- but it still might be wrong. And if the science was wrong, the whole thing is pointless. The $5 million of legal rocks you turned over might all be worthless. All of the Integrity of the Game speeches, all the We Care About Fair Play speeches, all the yelling and yelling and yelling and yelling might have been because the lawyer you paid $5 million never considered that if balls lose pressure in cold air they might gain pressure in warm air, and if the Colts' balls were measured later in the halftime than the Pats' balls they might have more air pressure, oopsie, sorry, but you can't have your $5 million back.
So now what do you do? Well, a normal person with a moderated sense of his self-worth and position in the universe might take a deep breath and say, "You know what? This whole thing was messy, and unfortunate, but at the end of the day, there are simply too many questions about what happened, or didn't happen, and too many issues with the measurements of the footballs -- because we had never, as a league, put in place an official policy to track football air pressure. And ultimately, it doesn't seem fair to levy a massive penalty here, because the process by which we investigated the issue was just too problematic."
That is not what he will do. He will thank Tom Brady for his testimony, and for his New Spirit of Cooperation he will reduce the penalty against him. But he will stand by Wells and the Wells Report. He will say that Wells's work is unimpeachable, his honesty and integrity unquestioned, and his investigation thorough and satisfactory. Because when you are a person who yells "How dare you!" over and over, year after year, you simply cannot all of a sudden take a measured or reasoned response to anything. It isn't possible. The person who yells "How dare you!" all the time just doesn't ever admit his own fallibility in any meaningful way. I would be utterly shocked if that happened.
Yes. If you believe Schefter's account was based solely on Brady people. I am not inclined to believe that.MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
Isn't the "tug-of-war" most likely just the difference between the Brady side leaks vs. the NFL leaks?
Bergs said:
I want to fuck this post.
KenTremendous said:He'll reduce the sentence to 2 games, but no, he isn't just going to say: we were wrong, sorry guys.
This is the essential problem with the way Goodell runs the Justice Thunder Fist of the NFL Front Office. He wants the league to be the military, with strict codes and punishments and Serious Things Taken Seriously. But it's not. It's a big sloppy sports league. Most on-field stuff should be dealt with by saying "knock it off," but he never says "knock it off," he only says "How dare you!"
And when you deal with every tiny thing by saying "How dare you?!" you end up stepping in it, all the time. You commit a massive amount of resources and money and PR capital to determine whether two guys might have done something that no one has ever cared about, and that investigation completely misreads (willfully or accidentally) the science behind what happened -- which, again, no one knew about, because no one had ever cared about the gameplay issue it affected. But by turning over $5 million worth of legal rocks you discovered some grubby behavior. So you yell "How dare you!" the loudest you've ever yelled it -- because maybe recently some people have pointed out that you didn't really yell "How dare you!" to a couple guys who deserved to be yelled at, and you looked stupid. So you yell, you yell a lot, you yell so loudly that no one will ever be able to accuse you of not yelling!
Then a bunch of reasonable people point out that the science that justified all that yelling might have actually been wrong. This isn't really your fault, necessarily -- because who the fuck ever cared about the Ideal Gas Law in football? Who even knew this was a thing? -- but it still might be wrong. And if the science was wrong, the whole thing is pointless. The $5 million of legal rocks you turned over might all be worthless. All of the Integrity of the Game speeches, all the We Care About Fair Play speeches, all the yelling and yelling and yelling and yelling might have been because the lawyer you paid $5 million never considered that if balls lose pressure in cold air they might gain pressure in warm air, and if the Colts' balls were measured later in the halftime than the Pats' balls they might have more air pressure, oopsie, sorry, but you can't have your $5 million back.
So now what do you do? Well, a normal person with a moderated sense of his self-worth and position in the universe might take a deep breath and say, "You know what? This whole thing was messy, and unfortunate, but at the end of the day, there are simply too many questions about what happened, or didn't happen, and too many issues with the measurements of the footballs -- because we had never, as a league, put in place an official policy to track football air pressure. And ultimately, it doesn't seem fair to levy a massive penalty here, because the process by which we investigated the issue was just too problematic."
That is not what he will do. He will thank Tom Brady for his testimony, and for his New Spirit of Cooperation he will reduce the penalty against him. But he will stand by Wells and the Wells Report. He will say that Wells's work is unimpeachable, his honesty and integrity unquestioned, and his investigation thorough and satisfactory. Because when you are a person who yells "How dare you!" over and over, year after year, you simply cannot all of a sudden take a measured or reasoned response to anything. It isn't possible. The person who yells "How dare you!" all the time just doesn't ever admit his own fallibility in any meaningful way. I would be utterly shocked if that happened.
dcmissle said:The smart move here if evil is on your mind was always to take a big chunk out of the team because, as a practical matter, those penalties are bulletproof. That's why I expected to lose a first round pick from this.
KenTremendous said:He'll reduce the sentence to 2 games, but no, he isn't just going to say: we were wrong, sorry guys.
This is the essential problem with the way Goodell runs the Justice Thunder Fist of the NFL Front Office. He wants the league to be the military, with strict codes and punishments and Serious Things Taken Seriously. But it's not. It's a big sloppy sports league. Most on-field stuff should be dealt with by saying "knock it off," but he never says "knock it off," he only says "How dare you!"
And when you deal with every tiny thing by saying "How dare you?!" you end up stepping in it, all the time. You commit a massive amount of resources and money and PR capital to determine whether two guys might have done something that no one has ever cared about, and that investigation completely misreads (willfully or accidentally) the science behind what happened -- which, again, no one knew about, because no one had ever cared about the gameplay issue it affected. But by turning over $5 million worth of legal rocks you discovered some grubby behavior. So you yell "How dare you!" the loudest you've ever yelled it -- because maybe recently some people have pointed out that you didn't really yell "How dare you!" to a couple guys who deserved to be yelled at, and you looked stupid. So you yell, you yell a lot, you yell so loudly that no one will ever be able to accuse you of not yelling!
Then a bunch of reasonable people point out that the science that justified all that yelling might have actually been wrong. This isn't really your fault, necessarily -- because who the fuck ever cared about the Ideal Gas Law in football? Who even knew this was a thing? -- but it still might be wrong. And if the science was wrong, the whole thing is pointless. The $5 million of legal rocks you turned over might all be worthless. All of the Integrity of the Game speeches, all the We Care About Fair Play speeches, all the yelling and yelling and yelling and yelling might have been because the lawyer you paid $5 million never considered that if balls lose pressure in cold air they might gain pressure in warm air, and if the Colts' balls were measured later in the halftime than the Pats' balls they might have more air pressure, oopsie, sorry, but you can't have your $5 million back.
So now what do you do? Well, a normal person with a moderated sense of his self-worth and position in the universe might take a deep breath and say, "You know what? This whole thing was messy, and unfortunate, but at the end of the day, there are simply too many questions about what happened, or didn't happen, and too many issues with the measurements of the footballs -- because we had never, as a league, put in place an official policy to track football air pressure. And ultimately, it doesn't seem fair to levy a massive penalty here, because the process by which we investigated the issue was just too problematic."
That is not what he will do. He will thank Tom Brady for his testimony, and for his New Spirit of Cooperation he will reduce the penalty against him. But he will stand by Wells and the Wells Report. He will say that Wells's work is unimpeachable, his honesty and integrity unquestioned, and his investigation thorough and satisfactory. Because when you are a person who yells "How dare you!" over and over, year after year, you simply cannot all of a sudden take a measured or reasoned response to anything. It isn't possible. The person who yells "How dare you!" all the time just doesn't ever admit his own fallibility in any meaningful way. I would be utterly shocked if that happened.
KenTremendous said:
That is not what he will do. He will thank Tom Brady for his testimony, and for his New Spirit of Cooperation he will reduce the penalty against him. But he will stand by Wells and the Wells Report. He will say that Wells's work is unimpeachable, his honesty and integrity unquestioned, and his investigation thorough and satisfactory. Because when you are a person who yells "How dare you!" over and over, year after year, you simply cannot all of a sudden take a measured or reasoned response to anything. It isn't possible. The person who yells "How dare you!" all the time just doesn't ever admit his own fallibility in any meaningful way. I would be utterly shocked if that happened.
Devizier said:God, I hope your next sitcom is about a bumbling sports commissioner. I hear Rowan Atkinson is still available.
Jettisoned said:Who's gonna pick it up, though? Fox, NBC, CBS and HBO won't touch it with a 50 foot pole.
Jettisoned said:Who's gonna pick it up, though? Fox, NBC, CBS and HBO won't touch it with a 50 foot pole.
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:So what is actually happening now? I assume that Roger's calendar was not cleared for deep Tom Brady thoughts time today.
JimBoSox9 said:
Actually, it might have been, since reports were they had reserved all of today in case it didn't end yesterday, IIRC.
Average Reds said:
AMC
Working title: "Mister MaGoodell"
Conan Obrien does a great "arrogant bumbling redhead" schtick.Devizier said:God, I hope your next sitcom is about a bumbling sports commissioner. I hear Rowan Atkinson is still available.
For the league: possibly/probably.GregHarris said:Wouldn't the best thing for the league be to drop the entire thing, perception be damned?
Harry Hooper said:
No, they had reserved Thursday if needed. What the Commish was busy with on Wednesday was never disclosed.