Cyrus the Not-so-Great

[BigSoxFan]

Ok, that does it. Cyrus the Virus (with credit to E5) finally gets his own thread. I need to vent and I believe others do too. I simply am astonished that he has been allowed to jeopardize home field advantage the way Chris Harper did 1 year ago. And now the mistakes are more than just physical drops. He's getting too close to balls he shouldn't be near, he's running balls out of the end zone when he should be kneeling, etc. I'm trying to remember a rookie who's had this toxic of an impact on the Pats. At least Aaron Dobson had the decency to always be injured.

What can be done here? I'm assuming he's finally finished back there but I also thought that like 15 screw ups ago. And now he may be needed as a corner, which is just dandy since when he's not killing our field position, he's busy getting toasted on defense.

The floor is now open...

 

[H78]

There has to be a FA corner that can bring more to the team.

What I'm saying is BB needs to reach out to Otis Smith.

 

[Bergs]

Had this been a road game, I would expect him to have to take a bus home. One of the worst position-adjusted players in NFL history.

 

[amarshal2]

I feel bad for the guy. To have so much talent..to get BB to continuously believe in you by presumably showing up in practice...and then to repeatedly embarrass yourself with mind numbingly stupid plays every week. He's just throwing it all away.

He should never return a punt or kickoff again. Just focus on improving as a CB and see if he's still a salvageable player.

 

[schillzilla]

Was worried about him contributing when in wk 4 of the preseason some bum NYG WR was roasting him. Worst part was said bum made a catch and just flat out ran him as he tried to catchup and make the tackle. That was a horrible look, and at that moment I thought he would contribute nothing on D this year.

Somehow he has been even worse on ST. He was fortunate to not have another muffed punt when he inexplicably ran across where the ball was rolling. What a colossal bust.

 

[mauf]

During last night's Cowboys-Giants game, Cris Collinsworth wondered aloud whether teams would be better off fair catching all punts, due to the prevalence of penalties and turnovers. I'm not sure if that's a good strategy for NFL teams generally, but it's a good one for the Pats right now -- send Edelman back there with instructions to take the fair catch unless he's reasonably sure he can get 15+ yards on the return.

 

[Stitch01]

So they aren't going to cut him. That would be foolish. Giving up on him as a returner permanently is probably still premature given talent (and they see talent or else he wouldn't keep getting chances). But he shouldn't field a punt in a game until preseason 2017 (maybe week 17 if it means nothing but I don't know if I'd bother). It is like Knoblauchian level in his head at this point and the stakes just get higher from here.

 

[bankshot1]

I can understand the difficulty of catching a tumbling punt in cold/windy conditions, or fumbling a ball as 250 lb guy rocks you with a bone-crushing hit, but I have a hard time understanding why when you see a ball spinning on the ground that you've been coached over and over to stay away from, you are attracted to it like a moth to a flame.

Cyrus you will get burned.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

Maybe we can just get Matt Light or one of the other offensive linemen who through the years continually caught punts at the end of a training camp practice, giving the entire team the next day off. They never seem to drop them.

 

[edmunddantes]

He twice ran near balls he had no business being near.

Got burned on one of them.


He then sat and watched two Ravens dive after a ball that even if he thought he didn't touch it he should have dove for as soon as he saw one of them touch it.

He's just mentally lost out there. The game is in head. Not sure what needs to be done, but it's certainly not running him out there in any situation this season.

 

[twibnotes]

Just stunning to see a player coached by Nick Saban and Bill Belichick exhibit such poor football awareness and instincts.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I was befuddled that they sent him out there for the following kickoff. I was even more surprised the Ravens kicked it to Slater and not him. Then Slater fumbled and I started having flashbacks to the Eagles game. I'm starting to think they need to take whatever godfather offer brought Dante back and offer it to Scott Obrien as well.

 

[E5 Yaz]

The floor is now open...

 

[mauf]

I simply am astonished that he has been allowed to jeopardize home field advantage the way Chris Harper did 1 year ago.

In retrospect, seeing how forgiving BB has been of Jones's miscues (to a fault, imo), I wonder if Harper was specifically ordered to fair-catch that ball in Denver last year.

 

[Super Nomario]

Jones showed some positive signs last night on defense, I thought. He played by far his most all season (48 snaps) and I think he was only targeted once. Granted, that was the 47-yard completion to Perriman. He showed some solid tackling, too.

I thought it was interesting that both Cyrus and Jonathan Jones played ahead of Justin Coleman, who hasn't taken the field on D since the Seattle game.

I'm not averse to giving him another shot at returns - in 2017. I don't see how they can put him out there again this year. He's not making good fair catch / no-fair catch judgments, he's muffing too many catches, and he fumbles even when he catches it cleanly initially. Last night was a new flavor of screw-up, but I wonder if it's just a symptom of the same disease - he doesn't have any confidence in his judgment fielding punts, so when he lets it go he second-guesses himself and tries to put himself in position to field it if it turns out he should have fielded the ball initially; you just can't play that way.

 

[joe dokes]

Last night was a new flavor of screw-up, but I wonder if it's just a symptom of the same disease - he doesn't have any confidence in his judgment fielding punts, so when he lets it go he second-guesses himself and tries to put himself in position to field it if it turns out he should have fielded the ball initially; you just can't play that way.

He may still have a touch of "I got away with that shit in college."

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

He's stupid. There's no question about it. They can coach him up all they like, but he's too stupid to get it.

Cut him. Whatever physical talent he has is overwhelmed by his total lack of football intelligence. He has no business being on this team. Chris Harper pretty much ruined the Pats' season last year with his screwup in Denver which cost the team HFA in the playoffs. I'm unwilling to allow Jones the chance to do the same this year.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

I was shocked that the Ravens didn't target him relentlessly after the long Perriman connection. Perhaps he was playing good coverage? It certainly looked like he was 1 v. 1 out there on Wallace and Smith at points, but Flacco barely looked that way. The Pats relentlessly went after the Ravens slot guy (forgetting his name) all day and it was amazing to not see the same sort of attack on Jones. So, maybe there's some positives to take away here.

 

[moondog80]

He's stupid. There's no question about it. They can coach him up all they like, but he's too stupid to get it.

Cut him. Whatever physical talent he has is overwhelmed by his total lack of football intelligence. He has no business being on this team. Chris Harper pretty much ruined the Pats' season last year with his screwup in Denver which cost the team HFA in the playoffs. I'm unwilling to allow Jones the chance to do the same this year.

This reads like your demand 9 months ago that the Red Sox waive Kopech.

Patience. He's a rookie.

 

[IdiotKicker]

Not saying that he is going to go down the same path, but a young Kevin Faulk had all kinds of fumble problems, with 16 in his first 5 years, as well as issues with awareness, culminating in a pass to him that was ruled a lateral that he simply didn't go after against GB, which resulted in a turnover. While I don't think Jones is going to turn into Faulk, one-year snapshots are often not indicative of who people are going to become. Otherwise Logan Ryan would be an All-Pro right now and McCourty would be playing CB still.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

This reads like your demand 9 months ago that the Red Sox waive Kopech.

Patience. He's a rookie.

Kopech is gone as part of a trade. I wonder why? Because he couldn't be fully trusted to harness his physical talents due to his past shitheadedness? Maybe. One thing's for sure, I wasn't sorry to see him go.

Cyrus Jones might single-handedly knock this team from the postseason if given the opportunity. He doesn't deserve that chance.

 

[Reggie's Racquet]

I think it's on the coaching staff quite frankly. Belichick included. You are supposed to try and put your players in the best position to succeed. Cyrus has been doing this all season. He has been clearly struggling all season making in game decisions. On the previous punt play last night he almost did the same thing.
Why would you run him out there again after he almost made a costly mistake on the previous punt?
Why compound repeated player stupidity with poor coaching decisions?
I understand Amendola is not available but Chung fair catching was working fine.
Why play with fire again and again?

 

[Jungleland]

I'm reminded of the game against Pittsburgh in the Cassel season when Slater pretty much single handedly lost the game for them with a kick return fumble. As shocked as I am that Cyrus keeps getting playtime out there, the transformation of Slater alone gives me pause when giving up on anyone too early.

 

[moondog80]

Kopech is gone as part of a trade. I wonder why? Because he couldn't be fully trusted to harness his physical talents due to his past shitheadedness?

Yes. That is why they sought to dump Kopech.

 

[Beomoose]

Put him in a small boat with water and a fishing line and cast him off.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Cutting him would be dumb. Keep him away from kicks at all costs for the rest of 2016 and let him start fresh in 2017. Let him spend the rest of the year focusing on D. It looked like he may have played the wrong coverage on that deep ball, but usually not being targeted is a good sign, and he does appear to be a solid tackler. Maybe he ends up a bust, but there's plenty of potential there and he's cheap and cost-controlled. He gets a shot to be next year's Marcus Cannon.

I'm reminded of the game against Pittsburgh in the Cassel season when Slater pretty much single handedly lost the game for them with a kick return fumble. As shocked as I am that Cyrus keeps getting playtime out there, the transformation of Slater alone gives me pause when giving up on anyone too early.

People wanted to bench Gronk in 2010 after the Cleveland debacle, as well.

 

[Saints Rest]

What I don't get, and maybe this is something they only see in practice, but where's the upside to make the risks palatable? Steven Ridley was a very good RB when he held the ball; I just don't see anywhere close to good from Jones. As Reggies Racquet noted, Chung was just fine out there.

 

[Byrdbrain]

What I don't get, and maybe this is something they only see in practice, but where's the upside to make the risks palatable? Steven Ridley was a very good RB when he held the ball; I just don't see anywhere close to good from Jones. As Reggies Racquet noted, Chung was just fine out there.

He returned four kicks for TDs last year and he was drafted for that skill.
He hasn't shown any of that flash this year and obviously should be nowhere near a kick or punt return the rest of the year.

 

[Ed Hillel]

What I don't get, and maybe this is something they only see in practice, but where's the upside to make the risks palatable? Steven Ridley was a very good RB when he held the ball; I just don't see anywhere close to good from Jones. As Reggies Racquet noted, Chung was just fine out there.

Jones was arguably the best punt returner in college for the biggest program going (and lots of high-lev situations), so there's plenty of upside. He clearly needs some time on the sports shrink's couch at this point, though. He needs an offseason to let it pass.

 

[edmunddantes]

I'm not saying jettison him today. I'm saying nowhere near kicks this season.

People keep trying to play "remember that game for player X and he turned out great". Which is fine.

The problem is we aren't playing that game with Jones. Pun not intended.

We are playing all those games. The guy has consistently been bad at this. To the point where Slater has to run at Jones with his hands up signaling stop, don't run it out on every kickoff Jones receives in the end zone.

 

[Koufax]

Cutting him would be dumb. Putting him out as a returner again this year would be dumb. Give him a fresh start on that next year. He had great talent in college, and he just needs to think more clearly about how to handle the job in the NFL and some pre-season games to gain back some confidence.

 

[Stitch01]

He's stupid. There's no question about it. They can coach him up all they like, but he's too stupid to get it.

Cut him. Whatever physical talent he has is overwhelmed by his total lack of football intelligence. He has no business being on this team. Chris Harper pretty much ruined the Pats' season last year with his screwup in Denver which cost the team HFA in the playoffs. I'm unwilling to allow Jones the chance to do the same this year.

Cutting him is what Rex Ryan would do.

 

[Number45forever]

If I recall, Jones has been a practice player of the week (black jersey) multiple times this year. His faults are, to me, 99% mental. I don't want him returning any kick again this season. But, way way too early to give up on him.

 

[lexrageorge]

He's stupid. There's no question about it. They can coach him up all they like, but he's too stupid to get it.

Cut him. Whatever physical talent he has is overwhelmed by his total lack of football intelligence. He has no business being on this team. Chris Harper pretty much ruined the Pats' season last year with his screwup in Denver which cost the team HFA in the playoffs. I'm unwilling to allow Jones the chance to do the same this year.

Actually, what derailed last season was the Pats handing away two very winnable games against mediocre/bad teams at the end of the season (championship teams win those late games against the Jets and Dolphins), and some really bad special teams play against a 3rd bad team at home against the Eagles. And Harper had nothing to do with Bryan Stork blowing the line calls and missing his blocking assignments in the AFCCG, nor with Jamie Collins missing multiple tackles in the same game, nor with Chandler Jones going off the reservation with synthetic weed.

Cutting Cyrus would be dumber than dumb. He played 48 defensive snaps last night, and last I checked the secondary had a very good game against a decent passing team. So he must have done something right.

He should not return punts until next season. I'd prefer to think that something is just not clicking right now than to think he's just too stupid to ever learn the game. Maybe he'll be a bust; but cutting a rookie 2nd round draft pick because he cannot return punts is simply nothing more than deliberately sacrificing CB depth out of spite.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I'm reminded of the game against Pittsburgh in the Cassel season when Slater pretty much single handedly lost the game for them with a kick return fumble. As shocked as I am that Cyrus keeps getting playtime out there, the transformation of Slater alone gives me pause when giving up on anyone too early.

Slater doesn't routinely return kickoffs, and last night showed why. His ST value comes from his maniacal coverage of kicks.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Actually, what derailed last season was the Pats handing away two very winnable games against mediocre/bad teams at the end of the season (championship teams win those late games against the Jets and Dolphins), and some really bad special teams play against a 3rd bad team at home against the Eagles. And Harper had nothing to do with Bryan Stork blowing the line calls and missing his blocking assignments in the AFCCG, nor with Jamie Collins missing multiple tackles in the same game, nor with Chandler Jones going off the reservation with synthetic weed.

Cutting Cyrus would be dumber than dumb. He played 48 defensive snaps last night, and last I checked the secondary had a very good game against a decent passing team. So he must have done something right.

He should not return punts until next season. I'd prefer to think that something is just not clicking right now than to think he's just too stupid to ever learn the game. Maybe he'll be a bust; but cutting a rookie 2nd round draft pick because he cannot return punts is simply nothing more than deliberately sacrificing CB depth out of spite.

If Harper doesn't fuck up in Denver the Pats win that game and thus have HFA. Period.

Jones allowed a 47 yard reception and had the aforementioned ST screwup. At some point enough is enough. OK fine, don't cut him. But don't dress him on game day either. He's not gonna get it on returns, guys. This isn't a physical issue, it's a thinking one. He's too stupid to figure it out. He knew damn well that ball touched him last night and he had brain-freeze trying to figure out what to do next. Christ.

I'm being so harsh because he's a noticable sore spot on an otherwise great team coming off a great win I'm damn stoked about. But he's also in a position to submarine the whole thing because he's stupid. I can't imagine allowing him the chance to do so.

 

[dcmissle]

I can't imagine cutting him. Sticking him back out there on returns would be playing dice with your season. Whatever the rationale for sticking with him to date, with only 3 games left, would they roll with him as a returner in a playoff game? Is that enough to earn trust? So what's to be gained?

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

48 meaningful snaps in a December game vs the Ravens. That is great news for the kid.

If he continues to improve as a rotational corner behind Butler, Rowe, and Ryan, we'll soon need to rename this thread.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

As others have noted, cutting him would be dumb. Knowing how much BB values practice, the guy is obviously doing something right on the practice field to be given chance after chance to return kicks after seemingly fucking them all up. And he's seeing the field as a DB now, after what I thought was a promising training camp and exhibition season for him.

But, yeah, no more kickoff or punt duty for him this season, please.

 

[Stitch01]

I can't imagine cutting him. Sticking him back out there on returns would be playing dice with your season. Whatever the rationale for sticking with him to date, with only 3 games left, would they roll with him as a returner in a playoff game? Is that enough to earn trust? So what's to be gained?

Well he was still back as a kick returner on the next kickoff so I think he's trusted more by the coaching staff then he is on SOSH. Doubt he's fielding another punt this year though.

 

[Captaincoop]

He's stupid. There's no question about it. They can coach him up all they like, but he's too stupid to get it.

Cut him. Whatever physical talent he has is overwhelmed by his total lack of football intelligence. He has no business being on this team. Chris Harper pretty much ruined the Pats' season last year with his screwup in Denver which cost the team HFA in the playoffs. I'm unwilling to allow Jones the chance to do the same this year.

Seconded.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Well he was still back as a kick returner on the next kickoff so I think he's trusted more by the coaching staff then he is on SOSH. Doubt he's fielding another punt this year though.

What choice to they have? Danny is hurt, Jules has taken a million hits to the head in his Welker-esque career path and Slater has hands like feet. They'll have to sign someone or use Whalen (shudder) to get this guy off the field.

 

[loshjott]

If Harper doesn't fuck up in Denver the Pats win that game and thus have HFA. Period.

Jones allowed a 47 yard reception and had the aforementioned ST screwup. At some point enough is enough. OK fine, don't cut him. But don't dress him on game day either.

Not to derail the thread, but this is bull, and this reaction has been gnawing at me ever since. Imagine the reverse scenario: Denver leading by 14 on the road against the Pats and they muff a punt in the fourth quarter, leading to a Pats TD. Then Denver folds like a cheap suit and allows a back up QB (Jimmy G) to play the quarter and OT of his life while the Denver O cannot get anything going. A total breakdown and a huge gut punch loss for the Ponies, effectively derailing their season.

What is our reaction? Ha ha, poorly coached mentally weak team! A BB-coached team would NEVER let one muffed punt cause the team to go off the rails like that. Kubiak is a moron!! Losers!

In sum: the Harper screw up should NOT have caused a total meltdown for the rest of that game.

Rant over.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

I was pretty harsh on him last night in the heat of the moment, but after some thought I've mellowed. He keeps getting put out there despite screw ups and we know the coaches arn't dumb (sure they arnt perfect and make mistakes at times, but they arn't dumb). So it stands to reason that he is showing something in practice that makes them want to keep giving him reps.

Up 23-3 mid-way through the 3rd quarter in a game that you're dominating is not a bad time to try to get a struggling rookie another rep. Sure there is risk, as we saw, but if a potentially dominant returner does actually exist within Jones then giving him another shot to get on track has some upside. Now the screw up was monumentally stupid and then the immediate Slater fumble compounded the Jones screw up by a factor of 100, but consider the situation; score, game clock and the way the team was executing up until that point and it doesn't look like a completely idiotic decision to have him out there to catch the punt. I'll admit though that having him back there is catch the ensuing kick off was a real headscratcher.

But the reality is that he was the 60th pick in the draft. The odds of him every becoming anything more then just a role player have always been significantly stacked against him. I think there are more then a few unrealistic expectations for Cyrus out there, since he was a "second round pick" and the first player the Pats drafted last year. But really he ceiling likely has always been 3rd corner and maybe special teams contributor.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

Not to derail the thread, but this is bull, and this reaction has been gnawing at me ever since. Imagine the reverse scenario: Denver leading by 14 on the road against the Pats and they muff a punt in the fourth quarter, leading to a Pats TD. Then Denver folds like a cheap suit and allows a back up QB (Jimmy G) to play the quarter and OT of his life while the Denver O cannot get anything going. A total breakdown and a huge gut punch loss for the Ponies, effectively derailing their season.

What is our reaction? Ha ha, poorly coached mentally weak team! A BB-coached team would NEVER let one muffed punt cause the team to go off the rails like that. Kubiak is a moron!! Losers!

In sum: the Harper screw up should NOT have caused a total meltdown for the rest of that game.

Rant over.

Agreed. The Harper mistake was bad, but it was the Hightower injury that really derailed the game. Denver's offense looked like a new team once he left the field.

 

[gammoseditor]

I think it's on the coaching staff quite frankly. Belichick included. You are supposed to try and put your players in the best position to succeed. Cyrus has been doing this all season. He has been clearly struggling all season making in game decisions. On the previous punt play last night he almost did the same thing.
Why would you run him out there again after he almost made a costly mistake on the previous punt?
Why compound repeated player stupidity with poor coaching decisions?
I understand Amendola is not available but Chung fair catching was working fine.
Why play with fire again and again?

They were up three scores against a team they looked clearly better than. The worst case scenario did happen and they still won the game. If you support not cutting him then I think it's fair to support using him in the second half up three scores against bad teams. He's obviously showing a lot in practice.

There were times when everyone lost faith in Devin McCourty and especially Patrick Chung when they were younger. Maybe Cyrus never turns it around but it's way too early to panic.

 

[wutang112878]

Its one thing to fumble it during your return or fumble it as you try to catch it, those are mistakes that practice can correct. But running near a ball when you should be running away has to be one of the worst mental mistakes I have seen in some time. If they could IR him for mental incapacity that would really be best for him and the team, then next year we could start fresh.

I would like to see them have Amendola or Edelman receive all punts and be told to strictly fair catch or clear out and never return one to avoid injury. I wish we could IR Jones somehow, but even if it costs us depth in another area of the team what would be best is to keep him on the inactive the rest of the way.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

All of the beat writers have given Jones a lot of credit for taking questions every week and answering every single one. Last night he cleared out of the lockerroom before the press got in which I think was wise of the team to have him do. Move on to Denver, focus on playing corner, and everyone moves past it.

In his press conference, when asked about Jones, BB said that the team had three turnovers and the whole team had to work on limiting mistakes. Slater was asked about Jones and Slater said that Jones works hard and is a good kid but that the press should be asking him about his own fumble. McCourty was asked about Jones and McCourty referenced his own issues after his rookie season and said that the team would pick Jones up.

Not sure if BB puts him out there again to return kicks this year, I would think not, but Jones will have an opportunity to make an impact on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[joe dokes]

Put him in a small boat with water and a fishing line and cast him off.

And Ernie Adams

 

[Stitch01]

What choice to they have? Danny is hurt, Jules has taken a million hits to the head in his Welker-esque career path and Slater has hands like feet. They'll have to sign someone or use Whalen (shudder) to get this guy off the field.

Chung and Lewis appear to be the next options, but Whalen back there taking a knee is fine too.

Personally Id give him a mental health break from all returns for the rest of the season.

Not to derail the thread, but this is bull, and this reaction has been gnawing at me ever since. Imagine the reverse scenario: Denver leading by 14 on the road against the Pats and they muff a punt in the fourth quarter, leading to a Pats TD. Then Denver folds like a cheap suit and allows a back up QB (Jimmy G) to play the quarter and OT of his life while the Denver O cannot get anything going. A total breakdown and a huge gut punch loss for the Ponies, effectively derailing their season.

What is our reaction? Ha ha, poorly coached mentally weak team! A BB-coached team would NEVER let one muffed punt cause the team to go off the rails like that. Kubiak is a moron!! Losers!

In sum: the Harper screw up should NOT have caused a total meltdown for the rest of that game.

Rant over.

Yes. Dont forget the absolute screwjob the officials dealt out in the fourth quarter of that one too, plus just beat the Jets or a scrub Miami team and it doesnt matter. Harper killed the season is a bit much.