23, 31, and a second rounder get you close.How are they going to keep any picks in the first or 2nd round while moving up to the top 2-5?
23, 31, and a second rounder get you close.How are they going to keep any picks in the first or 2nd round while moving up to the top 2-5?
23, 31, and a second rounder get you close.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22680603/2018-nfl-free-agency-grades-big-trades-signings-moves-offseason-bill-barnwellBy the traditional Jimmy Johnson chart, picks 23, 31 and 43 would be enough to push the Pats past the Broncos and into the fourth overall pick. It would be strange to see the Pats trade up for what would possibly be the fourth quarterback of this year's draft, but they also don't appear to have the resources to move up to the second overall pick unless they deal away their 2019 first-rounder or another player off of their roster. Could Trey Flowers, himself a free agent after this season, be enough to convince the Giants to move down from the second pick for that package?
They’ve made 3 SBs since Easley was drafted and won 2. They’ve made 2 SBs since Jones was drafted and won 1. Busting on both players hasn’t really impacted anything.Heck, think how much missing on Dominique Easley and Cyrus Jones has handicapped this team recently.
The Goff trade was close. At the time it was made, the Titans moved back from #1 to #15.Has there ever been a team trading out of the top 5 and the best pick they received for it is in the 20's? No matter how many 2nd rounders are included. That just doesn't seem to happen, draft chart be damned.
The team has persevered but to say there hasn’t been an impact seems a little ridiculous to me. The two biggest needs on the defensive side of the ball right now are DL that can get to the quarterback and a starting CB. The two very roles that Easley and Jones were drafted to do.They’ve made 3 SBs since Easley was drafted and won 2. They’ve made 2 SBs since Jones was drafted and won 1. Busting on both players hasn’t really impacted anything.
Of course there’s been some impact but there have been other events that have contributed, such as the DFG penalties. Cyrus had a bad first season but then he got hurt last preseason so there’s still a sliver of hope for him that he’ll be able to contribute.The team has persevered but to say there hasn’t been an impact seems a little ridiculous to me. The two biggest needs on the defensive side of the ball right now are DL that can get to the quarterback and a starting CB. The two very roles that Easley and Jones were drafted to do.
Missing on early round picks has long term effects not only on your drafting strategy but also your salary cap.
I don't think that Belichick would agree with the bolded. I believe that the Patriots highly value DL (including defensive ends) who can contain the run. Chandler Jones was traded and Chris Long signed elsewhere as, for each player, their best skill (getting to the QB) was less valued in New England than it is around the league.The team has persevered but to say there hasn’t been an impact seems a little ridiculous to me. The two biggest needs on the defensive side of the ball right now are DL that can get to the quarterback and a starting CB. The two very roles that Easley and Jones were drafted to do.
Missing on early round picks has long term effects not only on your drafting strategy but also your salary cap.
Is that true, or is it that he doesn't value it at the price the rest of the league is willing to pay?I don't think that Belichick would agree with the bolded. I believe that the Patriots highly value DL (including defensive ends) who can contain the run. Chandler Jones was traded and Chris Long signed elsewhere as, for each player, their best skill (getting to the QB) was less valued in New England than it is around the league.
Well, how many times has he had the ammunition to do so? That's pertinent info.To me, any time spent debating or contemplating moving into the very top of the first round is wasted breath. Belichick has never and will never be the guy to put all his eggs in one basket.
Agreed. Also, they don't value guys who ONLY get to the QB. They value the guy who can get to the QB occasionally, but also set the edge, and sometimes drop into coverage if they want to gameplan that.Is that true, or is it that he doesn't value it at the price the rest of the league is willing to pay?
That was my point. I think that Belichick would agree that they need to do a better job of putting pressure on the opposing quarterback, but that can be accomplished in many ways.Agreed. Also, they don't value guys who ONLY get to the QB. They value the guy who can get to the QB occasionally, but also set the edge, and sometimes drop into coverage if they want to gameplan that.
They need more QB pressure than they had last year, but they're not going to drop big money or big draft capital on a guy that only does that one thing. Drop the price a bit though, and we'll talk...
I can only imagine what Tom Brady's thoughts would be if Belichick traded away his best outside receiver...
Agreed. Something like Leighton Vander Esch + Mike McGlinchey would inject some serious young talent into this roster that can play right away.I can only imagine what Tom Brady's thoughts would be if Belichick traded away his best outside receiver and several key draft picks to acquire a QB who is guaranteed to never help Tom Brady win a game with the Patriots.
Tom isn't the GM, so Belichick can do what he wants, but that seems like a real in-your-face move.
It seems more likely that the Pats are going to try and acquire a cornerstone tackle or an impact LB (or both) with those picks.
I hope some year someone does a deep dive into the differences between receivers that make TB12 happy and those who make him sad.Maybe it's true of every quarterback to some degree, but it sure seems as though he has been quite particular over the years. I mean, do we hear about this type of thing with, say, Drew Brees?"...from what I understand, Tom Brady is not sad about this move."
Yeah, about that:
"...from what I understand, Tom Brady is not sad about this move."
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/patriots/2018/04/03/patriots-trade-brandin-cooks-rams/lOQPDiM4pLfOIab2UviSgM/story.html“Brandin Cooks has been an incredible player for us since he got here — his attitude, his approach to the game for a young player, his maturity is really what struck me,’’ Brady said days before the Super Bowl. “He’s one of the last guys off the field every single day, always working on his techniques, his catching technique, tracking the ball. It’s just so impressive. What he’s done for our team in one year is really incredible.
“I haven’t seen it very much from anybody who’s come in and make the kinds of contributions he’s made. He does it in his own style, too. He’s not trying to mimic anybody. It’s just him. I love playing with the guy. I love his spirit. I love his attitude. I love his will and determination. I love his leadership. Very lucky to play with him. Hopefully we have many more years together.’’
I think it's more like if one of them slide into the late teens they may think about trading up for one. They have too many holes to trade a bunch of picks to go into the top 10 or higher.Mayfield or Jackson in mid-first? Or do they see if one slides to 23?
I thought part of the reason Cooks was originally traded was for calling out Brees.I hope some year someone does a deep dive into the differences between receivers that make TB12 happy and those who make him sad.Maybe it's true of every quarterback to some degree, but it sure seems as though he has been quite particular over the years. I mean, do we hear about this type of thing with, say, Drew Brees?
Has there ever been a team trading out of the top 5 and the best pick they received for it is in the 20's? No matter how many 2nd rounders are included. That just doesn't seem to happen, draft chart be damned.
One is when he was asked about Cooks when he was still a teammate and the day before the Super Bowl. The other is what a reporter has heard from sources after that player has left. The circumstances were different and both could be correct.
Yeah, that's where I'm going. We get to pick 15 and those guys are there. Do the Patriots jump or do they see if they continue to slide. Should be fascinating.I think it's more like if one of them slide into the late teens they may think about trading up for one. They have too many holes to trade a bunch of picks to go into the top 10 or higher.
Anything's possible, I suppose. And I'm not trying to stir shit here. Players are asked to say a ton of crap during Media Day/Week, so maybe they just default to saying everybody is the "greatest teammate." Even still, I'm finding it hard to square:One is when he was asked about Cooks when he was still a teammate and the day before the Super Bowl. The other is what a reporter has heard from sources after that player has left. The circumstances were different and both could be correct.
With:"I love playing with the guy. I love his spirit. I love his attitude. I love his will and determination. I love his leadership. Very lucky to play with him. Hopefully we have many more years together"
"Tom Brady is not sad about this move."
I wish for that as well, but I’d be willing to bet the answer would involve the term ‘Erhardt-Perkins’.I hope some year someone does a deep dive into the differences between receivers that make TB12 happy and those who make him sad.Maybe it's true of every quarterback to some degree, but it sure seems as though he has been quite particular over the years. I mean, do we hear about this type of thing with, say, Drew Brees?
No, his contract is too much money.ne needs to keep all their picks they need a LT at 23 a QB AT 31 or 40 a te at 31 or 43 and LB Heip i have a throuht i love C Harris Jr my fav bronco but denver needs so much just as fans wouild u guys take pick 40 and CHJ for picks 23 31
Yup. And as long as TB12 is playing at a high level, Gronk is healthy, and the line is functional in 2018, the offense is going to be pretty elite even when mixing and matching different spare parts at WR. And if TB12 isn't playing at a high level, Gronk gets hurt, or the OL implodes, we're boned anyway.But they weren't going to pay Cooks $15M a year to be the centerpiece. So much can change in one year in the NFL. Maybe Riley McCarron becomes the next great slot man. Maybe they sign the next Dola next offseason. Maybe Mitchell becomes Givens 2.0. They have enough talent and hopefully depth at WR for 2018. I'll worry about 2019 and beyond next year. One year at a time with TB12 and Gronk.
Which is why I said I don't have a problem with the trade - I have a problem with what their current WR corps looks like.But they weren't going to pay Cooks $15M a year to be the centerpiece. So much can change in one year in the NFL. Maybe Riley McCarron becomes the next great slot man. Maybe they sign the next Dola next offseason. Maybe Mitchell becomes Givens 2.0. They have enough talent and hopefully depth at WR for 2018. I'll worry about 2019 and beyond next year. One year at a time with TB12 and Gronk.
Perhaps waiting til after the draft would help?They just look like a unit that doesn't have any real long term assets/prospects.
Nah ... he'll be onto hating the Patriots draft picks by thenPerhaps waiting til after the draft would help?
I think they almost have to draft a WR this year. Per Over The Cap, the only WR under contract for 2019 are Edelman and Mitchell - both of whom missed all of 2017. I guess the real question is what kind of receiver? An outside guy to replace Cooks? A slot guy to replace Amendola and eventually Edelman? I wouldn't be surprised to see them double-dip at WR, either, especially if one of the guys provides return value.Which is why I said I don't have a problem with the trade - I have a problem with what their current WR corps looks like.
And yeah, they'll be fine in 2018 - as long as all of the post-injury guys look like themselves. And some of the young guys take steps forward.They just look like a unit that doesn't have any real long term assets/prospects.
Huh. See, I would have agreed with this last year and even said as much on this board. But Cooks certainly didn't come across as the kind of guy who has "no limitations in how you can utilize him" in his one season with the Pats. And I think that's what separates him from other higher caliber receivers that are in a tier or two above Cooks (Brown, Beckham, Julio, etc.)I believe this is a trade that should work for everyone. Here is McVay’s take:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/04/05/sean-mcvay-no-limitations-on-how-to-use-brandin-cooks/
This is a great point - and we know Belichick will invest high picks in the interior DL. Seymour (his highest pick with NE), Warren, Wilfork, Easley, Brown. He may decide either or both of Brown / Shelton aren't likely to be worth their next contracts and grab a guy like Bryan or Payne or Vea.Malcolm Brown and Danny Shelton are both on the fourth year of their rookie contracts with a fifth year option available. So DT is a need.
I think both the Saints and Patriots felt the same way.Huh. See, I would have agreed with this last year and even said as much on this board. But Cooks certainly didn't come across as the kind of guy who has "no limitations in how you can utilize him" in his one season with the Pats. And I think that's what separates him from other higher caliber receivers that are in a tier or two above Cooks (Brown, Beckham, Julio, etc.)
I think the reason the Pats weren't comfortable investing big money in Cooks (besides the fact that they don't invest big money in receivers not named Randy Moss) is that Cooks has some pretty obvious limitations. He's not great at fighting for the ball in traffic. He's not great after the catch. His hands are okay but not top level. He has some pretty exciting skills and is most definitely an asset to any team that has him, but he's not on the same level as other top flight receivers.
Cooks is a very strong complimentary piece but I don't see him as a building block. He's a luxury good. Which is fine when he's on a cheap deal but when you have to start paying full retail price... not so much.
I think McVay is either overestimating Cooks' ability or he's overestimating his own ability to find surplus value elsewhere.
You were saying? Well done.Sad thing about Dez is that he has matured a lot but the physical skills have diminished. Right now, the dude is SLOW. Still could be a useful piece but more in the Anquan Boldin mold. I don’t think 2012-2014 Dez is coming back.
The constant straw-manning really makes this forum a pain in the ass. Can't have a damn discussion without people making up a dozen arguments to stick in someone's mouth. Its tedious.Nah ... he'll be onto hating the Patriots draft picks by then
Sure seems like a cut this summer is possible