I mean, I'm an idiot, but I'm hopeful.I hadn’t considered this. If we now deal some prospects for an upper tier SP I will love this trade even more.
Nick Yorke on the other hand...Seems like a leap. There are other avenues to replacing Sale's 31 starts over the last 4 seasons.
Sounds like the kind of approach taken by a big-market organization.Chris Cotillo
@ChrisCotillo
17s
Don't have the exact money going to Atlanta in the deal but source says Red Sox will cover a "good amount" of his $27.5M salary for 2024.
While true, it’s also a sobering reality check at what it costs to acquire pitching in this marketplace.Grissom was the #7 overall prospect in baseball in 2022.
https://www.mlb.com/prospects/2022/braves/
Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 50 | Run: 50 | Arm: 55 | Field: 45 | Overall: 55
If this guy had been in our system for the past couple of years, he would have been one of our most highly touted prospects in many years.
It's a mini version of the Scherzer and Verlander moves for the Mets.Sounds like the kind of approach taken by a big-market organization.
Agreed, we would have taken a Sale for 2023 Mo Vaughn trade at the deadline. This is something that should have happened a while ago. Well done Breslow.What a difference a day makes. This is an incredible trade. It gets rid of a burned roster spot with Sale (who could have good season but lets be honest we were going to try to trade him at the deadline) for a legitimate 2B prospect with six years of service time. This is a guy who can give you Dustin Pedroia lite production which is damn good. Not a ton of strike outs, good eye, decent defense, and decent base running. It gives you a solid back of the line up right handed bat possible 2 hitter if everything goes really well.
Yep. Fixed.Shouldn't the title be Sale & $17m traded for Grissom?
thanks I went to edit and it was done, sorry about that!Yep. Fixed.
Which also suports the theory (mine, anyway) that he told the FO they could contend when Sale returned, and got fired because its hard to be more wrong. (There really is no other rational reason he wouldnt have made the trade.)It's not definitive, but this trade seemingly supports the story that Bloom balked on going through with a Sale trade that was available.
Initial feedback from scouts on new Red Sox 2B Vaughn Grissom: Athletic, good frame. Patient approach, makes consistent contact. Fringy power potential, but could find more given his frame. Concerns about his bat speed & ability to impact the baseball, especially against velo.
Defensively, it was consistent that he's not a shortstop, and was mixed on whether he can even stay on the infield. Best case seems to be an average defensive profile at second base, but some think he's best suited in left field.
Urbina comes to mind.Worse than Mike Lansing Curt Schilling Carl Everett or Pinky Higgins? There's 4 guys worse than Chris Sale and that's without thinking about it. Whatever you might think about him, Chris always tried hard and gave his best effort. His injuries were fluky most of the time. Plus I can never stop watching Sale strike out Manny Machado to end the 2018 World Series.
Not in Toronto he didn't.Worse than Mike Lansing Curt Schilling Carl Everett or Pinky Higgins? There's 4 guys worse than Chris Sale and that's without thinking about it. Whatever you might think about him, Chris always tried hard and gave his best effort. His injuries were fluky most of the time.
Mariners have Ty France. Now if the Sox showed up to the door with Yoshida and a bag of cash...shhhh, MIL or SEA might hear you
100%. Bloom never makes this deal. These are the sort of deals he should have been making. This is the best deal since Dombrowski left.This sort of deal is precisely why Bloom was fired and Breslow was hired.
I think their all star second baseman with the best contract in baseball might have had something to do with that.braves were talking about moving him to outfield so I wouldn’t be so sure he’s a slam dunk to be an mlb second basemen
With you a 100% on this. A fiery competitor who could be mind boggling dominating at times. Frustrating injuries pulled him down and us along with them. It’s business and nothing personal. The man helped win a World Series. I’ll be pulling for him with the Braves!I’m a huge Chris Sale fan, and admittedly am one of the few who was actually happy with the extension. I loved watching him last year when he had a great run of starts. He was always appointment viewing for me.
Having said that, this makes a lot of sense and is a smart way to use some of the Sox financial muscle to get a real return.
I’ll still watch him and root for him.
They have Ozzie Albies at 2B so could be that he was just blocked.braves were talking about moving him to outfield so I wouldn’t be so sure he’s a slam dunk to be an mlb second basemen
Same. No real issues with him. Was pretty critical of him during Covid, but have mellowed out on that to a large degree. The clubhouse tv thing in Worcester was a nothing burger in my view. I sometimes found his accountable tough guy persona a little much, but the guy always competed hard, was dominant when healthy, and contributed significantly to a world title here. I wish him well, but suspect his age and body type will lead to more diminishing returns from here on out.With you a 100% on this. A fiery competitor who could be mind boggling dominating at times. Frustrating injuries pulled him down and us along with them. It’s business and nothing personal. The man helped win a World Series. I’ll be pulling for him with the Braves!
Yes.As an aside, do those who think Sale is one of MLB's biggest jerks because he wouldn't get vaccinated feel the same way about Tanner Houck?
Loved Sale's personality and attitude. It's what every ball player should be like. Injuries did him in.Craig Breslow, you have my sword. Thank you for ridding us of one of my least favorite personalities to ever don the uniform.
I always thought it made them idiots, not jerks. (I'd need more info to decide if they were jerks.)YMMV.As an aside, do those who think Sale is one of MLB's biggest jerks because he wouldn't get vaccinated feel the same way about Tanner Houck?
It doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I don't see how this supports it.It's not definitive, but this trade seemingly supports the story that Bloom balked on going through with a Sale trade that was available.
I have a soft spot for guys who seem to care as much as we do, and he was that kind of player.Same. No real issues with him. Was pretty critical of him during Covid, but have mellowed out on that to a large degree. The clubhouse tv thing in Worcester was a nothing burger in my view. I sometimes found his accountable tough guy persona a little much, but the guy always competed hard, was dominant when healthy, and contributed significantly to a world title here. I wish him well, but suspect his age and body type will lead to more diminishing returns from here on out.
Well, it's a negative for both, in my opinion, but I don't think Sale is one of MLB's biggest jerks, just expendable for a variety of reasons.As an aside, do those who think Sale is one of MLB's biggest jerks because he wouldn't get vaccinated feel the same way about Tanner Houck?
He went against Cora?Yes! As an aside, he’s the last of the 2018 team to go against Cora and attend the White House ceremony. He and JD Martinez were the most aglow about it. But also Benintendi, Eovaldi, Barnes, a few others.
(Vigorous nodding)It's a mini version of the Scherzer and Verlander moves for the Mets.
Send more $ than needed to get to the current "break even" value of the player (I do think 1/10M for Sale and a 20M 2025 team option is good value in a vacuum for Atl).
In exchange, you essentially buy a better prospect than you would otherwise get. Will come down to how Grissom does, but I like the bat (a bit concerned he won't even stick at 2B though, he's a big guy)
Cora was presumably not thrilled with the then-president b/c of his behavior towards Puerto Ricans after the hurricane.He went against Cora?
I will add two points to this litany, one semi-rational and one irrational (so sue me):My lasting memories of Sale will be his dominant stretch in 2017 (and especially his complete game loss @ the Phillies, when he struck out 10 and hit a double and the top of the order couldn’t drive him in) and the K of Machado to win the 2018 WS. I’m grateful to him forever.
But I never loved Chris Sale or really enjoyed rooting for him. For me, it’s:
1) (At this risk of reopening a can of worms, apologies) His selfish and anti-science refusal to be vaccinated in 2021 (especially when it meant he couldn’t pitch in Toronto). Terrible example particularly for a team leader and veteran being paid $30M.
2) His tantrum and destroying the clubhouse in Worcester in 2022 (?) after a bad rehab start. Again, both embarrassing and a terrible example for AAA players of how to act as a professional.
3) His failures in the 2021 stretch run and playoffs. He couldn’t deliver in those final 2 regular season games in Baltimore and Washington, and then he melted down against the Rays in the ALDS and didn’t do much against the Astros in the ALCS. He wasn’t fully healthy, of course, but I remember Pedro (an unfair comparison, I realize) and other aces gutting out games when he didn’t have his best stuff.
Most of the team boycotted, particularly after TFG’s paper-towel tossing in Puerto Rico amid its hurricane disaster-relief efforts. Doubtful it was a spoken thing, but “against” in spirit.He went against Cora?
To me that's about the biggest gain. The questions marks about availability make it harder to answer the questions about talent.It’s more that it’s one less question mark to manage around, in a sea of back of rotation questions.
It might be irrational but I still say Jeter was a shit teammate because he didn’t move off of short for Arod so you’re not the only one with a similar take.I will add two points to this litany, one semi-rational and one irrational (so sue me):
(1) Semi-rational: Sale loves to talk about being accountable and working hard, then hops on a bicycle and breaks his wrist. If you are made of glass and have already been nursing injuries all season, do not get on a fucking bicycle in Boston of all places. That was indefensible.
(2) Irrational: Mr. Accountability had the opportunity to really show his stuff and opt out of his contract last off-season after getting money for nothing from the Sox for three years. At the very least, he could've done a soft opt-out by opting out and immediately signing a restructured deal to add deferred money, make some of the money contingent on innings pitched, etc. Instead, he just opted-in and that was that. I understand that the MLBPA would've had kittens if he'd done this, there's no moral reason for him to opt out given that the Sox knew the risks when they idiotically signed him to that extension, and no athlete should give money away to billionaire owners. That's why it's an irrational dislike.
And now I never have to talk about him again. Saints be praised.