Yeah, I'll root for him down there. Be fun to see him healthy and facing off against the 120-win Dodgers in the NLCS.
Chris Sale (plus $17mil) traded to Atlanta for Vaughn Grissom
- Thread starter Bosoxman2004
- Start date
I think, in Breslows mind, Sale was like Nomar at SS in '04. So in his mind, he gave up a pitcher that was unlikely to pitch.
Why? His physical problems will cease to exist because he is in a walk year? It’s not like Sale was fucking off for the past 5 years, he kept getting hurt.
Maybe Grissom can get Wilyer Abreu to give up his number for him to really complete the circle.
I was probably irrationally hopeful for Sale but getting Vaughn Grissom for him feels like a best reasonable scenario deal for Boston. Even if he settles at his 2022 level that's a valuable guy.
It might feel weird given this will be his third season but he's younger than Ceddanne is, there's legit hope that there is value there and he is a starting MI for the next half decade
It might feel weird given this will be his third season but he's younger than Ceddanne is, there's legit hope that there is value there and he is a starting MI for the next half decade
Not down on the trade, but it does open the door somewhat for re-signing Paxton as it was non-viable to consider Sale and Paxton in the same rotation. Breslow may have another quarry in mind, though, so we'll see.
Yeah. I really dont get the personal shots at him. Crtical for being unable to pitch, sure. But "pissboy temper tantrums"?
I must have been napping.
I like it.. No faith Sale was ever bringing any future value, and a cost controlled 2B was a need
He’s not popular, of course, but Sale embarrassing Machado on that final strike in 2018 was amazing.
And personally, the last Sox game I saw (and the first for two of my kids), was the CG shutout in 2019 in KC. Also had an immaculate inning in that game as well.
Glad it’s done, though.
And personally, the last Sox game I saw (and the first for two of my kids), was the CG shutout in 2019 in KC. Also had an immaculate inning in that game as well.
Glad it’s done, though.
10.5mm in savings is far from insignificant. I think I love this move. I think they are gonna sign someone significant now.
I also think Craig Breslow has stones. Trading with the Yankees, moving Sale. He’s got stones. Theo esque.
I also think Craig Breslow has stones. Trading with the Yankees, moving Sale. He’s got stones. Theo esque.
You don't remember the incident where he busted up a TV and a few other things at Polar Park while on a rehab assignment?
I mean, call it what you want, but would you put money on him making 20 starts next year? 15?
It's a win-win, because additionally, if he does that for ATL, you can bitch and moan about it.
Deal makes sense for ATL too. Grissom was blocked longer term, pitching is very very expensive this off-season, and the Braves have the kind of team where they can be very careful with Sale and he could be valuable for them when they need him most
Even if Sale puts up 80 good innings, if 20 of those are in October it might be worth it.
Even if Sale puts up 80 good innings, if 20 of those are in October it might be worth it.
I'm actually surprised it isn't more than $17M and I, unlike many here, had huge hopes for him this year.
I assume we're going hard after 2 more solid SP now with Giolito and Bello fighting out 3/4 in the rotation.
I assume we're going hard after 2 more solid SP now with Giolito and Bello fighting out 3/4 in the rotation.
I was just going to say, the 10.5 mil saved is a boon. Getting a potential everyday 2B-- a position that's been a revolving door since Pedroia-- for the next six years is the type of move you jump on.
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I loved watching Sale pitch when he was at his best, but this feels like a no-brainer of a deal, even if Grissom ultimately ends up in LF.
6 years of control for what looks to be a solid RHB? I think Atlanta had to move him now because they just don't have any room for him, but this feels like a huge upgrade to the future of the team.
6 years of control for what looks to be a solid RHB? I think Atlanta had to move him now because they just don't have any room for him, but this feels like a huge upgrade to the future of the team.
I would. He made 20 starts last year. No reason it can't be his baseline for 2024.
Red Sox payroll is now at $201mm, per @RedSoxPayroll, or $36mm under the luxury tax threshold. Definitely room to add another starter.
Sale on a 1/10 contract is solid value for Atl but I'm surprised they had to give up Grissom to get those terms. What is Sale alone worth on a 1 year contract right? 15M-20M max? The Red Sox would have had to eat something even if they got no prospects of significance at all.
Seems like we bought 6 years of control of Grissom for 5-10M. Should be a good deal unless Grissom is terrible (he admittedly was awful in a short 2023 stint).
Like the risk/reward from Breslow here.
Seems like we bought 6 years of control of Grissom for 5-10M. Should be a good deal unless Grissom is terrible (he admittedly was awful in a short 2023 stint).
Like the risk/reward from Breslow here.
I loved Sale, but he just isn’t staying healthy. This is a much larger return for him than I’d have ever thought they’d get.
My lasting memories of Sale will be his dominant stretch in 2017 (and especially his complete game loss @ the Phillies, when he struck out 10 and hit a double and the top of the order couldn’t drive him in) and the K of Machado to win the 2018 WS. I’m grateful to him forever.
But I never loved Chris Sale or really enjoyed rooting for him. For me, it’s:
1) (At this risk of reopening a can of worms, apologies) His selfish and anti-science refusal to be vaccinated in 2021 (especially when it meant he couldn’t pitch in Toronto). Terrible example particularly for a team leader and veteran being paid $30M.
2) His tantrum and destroying the clubhouse in Worcester in 2022 (?) after a bad rehab start. Again, both embarrassing and a terrible example for AAA players of how to act as a professional.
3) His failures in the 2021 stretch run and playoffs. He couldn’t deliver in those final 2 regular season games in Baltimore and Washington, and then he melted down against the Rays in the ALDS and didn’t do much against the Astros in the ALCS. He wasn’t fully healthy, of course, but I remember Pedro (an unfair comparison, I realize) and other aces gutting out games when he didn’t have his best stuff.
Not a knock at you, but I think we all have to stop being surprised at the cost of pitching.
The Sale extension was easily the worst move of the Dombrowski era. And many of us said it was terrible in real time.
I loved Sale when he was healthy, but needless to say he’s been an albatross for several years running.
No clue if Grissom will pan out, but seems like a worthwhile gamble. At least we may be actually trying to solve the 2B issue that’s existed for 2 years.
I loved Sale when he was healthy, but needless to say he’s been an albatross for several years running.
No clue if Grissom will pan out, but seems like a worthwhile gamble. At least we may be actually trying to solve the 2B issue that’s existed for 2 years.
Did not see this coming, but glad they're cutting bait with him at this point. Seems like a really smart trade for the Sox -- six years of control for a potentially solid middle infielder in exchange for cash and a guy who we'd be lucky to get 100 innings from. Works for me.
They get Sale on 1/10 with a $20M option. Sale was worth 2.1 fWAR last year, projected at 2.6 this year. I think he’d get at least what Giolito got if he were a FA.
I’m a huge Chris Sale fan, and admittedly am one of the few who was actually happy with the extension. I loved watching him last year when he had a great run of starts. He was always appointment viewing for me.
Having said that, this makes a lot of sense and is a smart way to use some of the Sox financial muscle to get a real return.
I’ll still watch him and root for him.
Having said that, this makes a lot of sense and is a smart way to use some of the Sox financial muscle to get a real return.
I’ll still watch him and root for him.
Love, love, love this move. Hold zero grudges against Sale, dude was balls in 2018 and pitched at an all time level while healthy and available here. Best of luck to him.
I'm not surprised at all. But what is Sale alone currently worth on a 1 year deal in your mind?
However much over 10M you think, that's what we bought 6 years of control of Grissom for. Seems low to me unless...
1. You think Sale is worth 25M+ on a 1 year deal
or
2. Grissom ends up being totally useless.
I love this move too. Save some salary, get a starting 2B, which frees up Yorke or Rafaela for a trade.
Worse than Mike Lansing Curt Schilling Carl Everett or Pinky Higgins? There's 4 guys worse than Chris Sale and that's without thinking about it. Whatever you might think about him, Chris always tried hard and gave his best effort. His injuries were fluky most of the time. Plus I can never stop watching Sale strike out Manny Machado to end the 2018 World Series.
Man what a shocker! Just waiting for the other shoe to drop. You don’t clear all that space with a SP when you need starting pitching unless you know what’s coming up.
As noted above in this thread, Atlanta holds an option to keep Sale in 2025 for $20M.
Per Spotrac, the cost of that option gets a bump up if:
- 2025 Option Escalator (2023, 2024 Cy Young)
$2.5M for 1st
$1.5M for 2nd or 3rd
$1M for 4th or 5th
$500,000 for 6th-10th
Also, Spotrac indicates the option will vest if:
- 2025 Vesting Option ($5M deferred to 2040)
vests with a Top 10 finish in 2024 Cy Young + healthy
This suggests the option automatically vests if Sale finishes Top 10 in CY voting, and he passes some specified definition (?) of healthy.
The upside is there, but you think someone would guarantee 35-36 year old Sale 40M over the next 2 years? He has thrown 150 innings over the past 4 years combined. Giolito is 29 and has thrown more innings than that in each of the least 3 seasons.
Whenever Sale gets his velocity up, he gets a stress reaction in a rib, or his scapula, or some random bone that shouldn't get a stress reaction.
1/10 I think is probably an underpay. But I still think we were going to have to eat some Sale money in any trade, even if we didn't get a decent prospect. So getting someone like Grissom seems like a win to me.
I'm guessing Yorke gets bundled with others now in a trade and Breslow goes on to sign Montgomery (or possibly Snell). We needed 2 stud SPs and a solid 2b. If Grissom gives us the latter and Giolito is more of an innings eater than most of us expected from Sale, 1 stud SP and one good SP makes this team significantly better and moves us directly into the WC hunt. Signing Hernandez gives us a RHH and also frees up Duran or another OFer to pair with Yorke for a sold SP.
I hadn’t considered this. If we now deal some prospects for an upper tier SP I will love this trade even more.