Chris Davis busted for amphetamines -- Out for start of playoffs

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Chris Davis, July 2013:
 
 
“I think it sucks that guys in our day and age have to answer for mistakes that guys have made in the past. But it is part of it,” said Davis, who has 33 home runs in his first 92 games for the Orioles this season. “That’s what happened when Major League Baseball started addressing the issue. We knew we were going to have to deal with it.”
 
So Davis is dealing with it. He’s been asked by some national media types. He’s been asked on Twitter. He was asked again Thursday to address performance-enhancing drugs, and he addressed it at length.
 
“I have never taken them. I have no reason to. I’ve always been a power hitter. With me, I think the biggest thing was the consistency of the contact,” said Davis, who also hit 33 homers last year in first true full season in the majors. “When I was making contact, I was always hitting for power. I’m a guy that likes to work out a lot. I’m a guy that used to eat whatever I wanted to, but I started getting into my mid-20s, I’ve been seeing that change. So I’ve been taking better care of my body. I have a pretty strict diet. But I’ve never taken [performance-enhancing drugs]. I haven’t felt the need to.”

Read more: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-chris-davis-denies-ever-using-steroids-or-performance-enhancing-drugs-20130711,0,4624229.story#ixzz3D7E7EjMb
 
Soooo......not so much.
 

MakMan44

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Ed Hillel said:
 
This is about the least surprising thing I've heard in a while. I wonder if he'll use the Molly defense.
Really? I thought they were supposed to help you play baseball. Davis has been sooo bad this season. 
 

MakMan44

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
 
Most likely explanation would be that he took them because he was struggling and wanted to break out of his slump.
Huh. That's a good point. Didn't think of that, thanks. 
 

Ed Hillel

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
 
Most likely explanation would be that he took them because he was struggling and wanted to break out of his slump.
 
That's one explanation. Another is that he's been taking them for a long time, and just got caught for the first time.
 
Edit - And I see you agree!
 

LeoCarrillo

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Would amphetamine really turn you into a power-hitting beast? I assumed they just help you offset the grind and give you an energy and focus boost.
 

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http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24706357/chris-davis-suspended-25-games-for-positive-amphetamine-test
 
I have no particular animus toward Chris Davis or even toward the Orioles generally (hey, at least they're not the Yankees or Rays)... but I can take solace in picturing how red Buck Showalter's face must have gotten when he received this news...
 
 
Orioles slugger Chris Davis has been suspended for 25 games by Major League Baseball for testing positive for amphetamines, the league announced Friday morning. The suspension includes the postseason.
The Orioles have 17 games left and appear headed to the AL East crown with ease, so the suspension will bleed into at least the ALDS. Should the Orioles play more than eight postseason games, Davis will again be eligible.
If not, Davis' suspension could be resumed next season until his 25 games are complete.
 
 

MakMan44

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LeoCarrillo said:
Would amphetamine really turn you into a power-hitting beast? I assumed they just help you offset the grind and give you an energy and focus boost.
That was my original thought, which is why I made my first comment. 
 
I actually think SJH's reply is likely, maybe the grind was getting to him at this point. 
 

Titoschew

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So, he didn't renew his waiver, tested positive once, still didn't renew and now this where he finds himself.  What a douche, really sticks it to his team a few weeks before the playoffs.
 

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LeoCarrillo said:
Would amphetamine really turn you into a power-hitting beast? I assumed they just help you offset the grind and give you an energy and focus boost.
 
I have to think there's a reason so many athletes get busted for Adderall use. I believe it can be used both before games to increase focus and may help with work outs by decreasing fatigue. There are others around here with a better understanding, but I do believe they can be used as PEDs. I've also read arguments on both sides on its potential to act as a masking agent for roids.
 

LeoCarrillo

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Ed Hillel said:
 
I have to think there's a reason so many athletes get busted for Adderall use. I believe it can be used both before games to increase focus and may help with work outs by decreasing fatigue. There are others around here with a better understanding, but I do believe they can be used as PEDs. I've also read arguments on both sides on its potential to act as a masking agent for roids.
 
Oh, they're performance-enhancing no doubt. But they may be closer to Red Bull and a Snickers than Winstrol and Androstenedione.
 

TheYaz67

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Good sign I guess that we are out of practice starting new threads in the Lounge....
 
Sucks for the O's, but they have flashed plenty of HR power up and down the line up this year so shouldn't affect them too badly, and their primary DH (Steve Pearce) has started over 100 MLB games at first base.
 

Fred not Lynn

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LeoCarrillo said:
 
Oh, they're performance-enhancing no doubt. But they may be closer to Red Bull and a Snickers than Winstrol and Androstenedione.
 
Stimulant abuse is every bit as dangerous and unhealthy as abuse of anabolic steroids. There's a reason it is banned.
 
And maybe his TUE (Theraputic Use Exemption) wasn't renewed because he didn't meet the criteria of actually requiring it for legitimate medical reasons...
 

redsahx

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Most likely explanation would be that he took them because he was struggling and wanted to break out of his slump.
 
Adderrall would have absolutely nothing to do with him suddenly becoming an elite power hitter last year. He was likely taking them legally earlier in his career and earlier this season anyways (assuming he had a prescription). Regardless, Adderall use by MLB guys doesn't bother me at all. It doesn't help you put on muscle or boost power; it basically serves as a stimulant to keep guys awake and focused and after say a late night out drinking or a long red-eye flight.
 

redsahx

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Stimulant abuse is every bit as dangerous and unhealthy as abuse of anabolic steroids. There's a reason it is banned.
 
And maybe his TUE (Theraputic Use Exemption) wasn't renewed because he didn't meet the criteria of actually requiring it for legitimate medical reasons...
 
Key word is abuse. I think the main point is that we wouldn't suddenly see another era of McGwire Sosa and Bonds (or 2013 Chris Davis) simply from the widespread use of Adderall in clubhouses. I screwed up when I said that Adderall use doesn't bother me "at all". Obviously guys getting the stuff without a doctor and abusing it is a concern, just not from a performance enhancing standpoint really.

He violated the policy, so the suspension is deserved, and certainly it would be a major health problem if guys were taking this stuff without doctor supervision. I just think it is inaccurate to say that Adderall would explain someone becoming a great power hitter at the major league level. It basically just makes it easier for guys to overcome a bad night's sleep.
 

Fred not Lynn

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redsahx said:
 
 
Key word is abuse. I think the main point is that we wouldn't suddenly see another era of McGwire Sosa and Bonds (or 2013 Chris Davis) simply from the widespread use of Adderall in clubhouses. I screwed up when I said that Adderall use doesn't bother me "at all". Obviously guys getting the stuff without a doctor and abusing it is a concern, just not from a performance enhancing standpoint really.

He violated the policy, so the suspension is deserved, and certainly it would be a major health problem if guys were taking this stuff without doctor supervision. I just think it is inaccurate to say that Adderall would explain someone becoming a great power hitter at the major league level. It basically just makes it easier for guys to overcome a bad night's sleep.
 
Problem is if you open the door to "use", you get abuse. If an athlete believes one pill will make him better, he knows the other guy is taking two, so he's going to take three...
 
You could safely use any PED, under the right supervision and in the right dosages. You could safely allow stimulants, and steroids, and EPO (if it helped baseball players, which I am pretty sure it doesn't) to a certain degree, but it is much easier to enforce "zero" as your limit.
 

redsahx

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Problem is if you open the door to "use", you get abuse. If an athlete believes one pill will make him better, he knows the other guy is taking two, so he's going to take three...
 
You could safely use any PED, under the right supervision and in the right dosages. You could safely allow stimulants, and steroids, and EPO (if it helped baseball players, which I am pretty sure it doesn't) to a certain degree, but it is much easier to enforce "zero" as your limit.
That's why I am OK with testing for it and making it a banned substance, but am also OK with guys getting waivers with a valid prescription. You have to jump through hoops each month to get a refill, so if a guy is taking huge doses or giving the stuff away, he is likely going to get flagged for trying to fill the prescription early (though I'm sure some could slip through). Like painkillers, you need to get a new prescription from your doctor each time you want to get a refill.

Overall though, I do admit that I don't get worked up when an NFL guy or MLB guy gets nailed for the stuff, because the competitive edge factor isn't the same as it is with steroids.
 

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Baltimore Sun: A 2012-13 study showed that 122 Major Leaguers had therapeutic use exemptions — 119 of which were for ADD.
 

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If he had a prescription for Adderall it was likely for ADHD and as explained to me by my son's therapist, stimulants effect people with ADHD differently than people without ADHD.  A stimulant, like Adderall or Focalin actually calms people with ADHD and allows them to focus rather than getting them wired like they would to a non-ADHD sufferer.  It is performance enhancing, yes, it allows people with a psychological disorder (ADHD) to focus when they wouldn't otherwise be able to. 
 

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E5 Yaz said:
Baltimore Sun: A 2012-13 study showed that 122 Major Leaguers had therapeutic use exemptions — 119 of which were for ADD.
 
Alright, but they're also typically of the generation, a bit younger than me, for whom ADD was diagnosed at extremely high rates, especially for boys. 20 percent of the league doesn't actually seem that astonishing. I probably would have guessed 12-15. 
 
You don't think Dustin Pedroia was a hyperactive kid? I have no idea if he has a TUE — I wouldn't be at all surprised, though. 
 

Fred not Lynn

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Dewy4PrezII said:
If he had a prescription for Adderall it was likely for ADHD and as explained to me by my son's therapist, stimulants effect people with ADHD differently than people without ADHD.  A stimulant, like Adderall or Focalin actually calms people with ADHD and allows them to focus rather than getting them wired like they would to a non-ADHD sufferer.  It is performance enhancing, yes, it allows people with a psychological disorder (ADHD) to focus when they wouldn't otherwise be able to. 
 
Being able to focus, whether you are diagnosed with ADD or not, is one of the most difficult things to do in sport. I don't think most fans really understand that.
 

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E5 Yaz said:
Baltimore Sun: A 2012-13 study showed that 122 Major Leaguers had therapeutic use exemptions 119 of which were for ADD.
How does that compare to the rate in the overall population, and would we expect to see elite athletes have a greater or lesser rate than generally.

I'm reminded of all the swimmers who have miraculously overcome asthma.

There's a bunch of people on the O's I'd like to see tested regularly. Steve Pearce suddenly discovered how to translate his minor league numbers to the majors when he went there. Joseph went from noncontributor in AAA to a contributor in the majors. Gonzalez went from a 26 year old bust at Salem in 2010 to a mid-rotation starter for Baltimore in 2011. Tommy Hunter all of a sudden throws 98 instead of 91 (though the move to the pen may .. may .. explain that). Markakis all of sudden got good again this year. Davis last year. And, Nelson Cruz is making a mockery of the idea that drugs aren't still in use.
 

Fred not Lynn

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redsahx said:
 
Overall though, I do admit that I don't get worked up when an NFL guy or MLB guy gets nailed for the stuff, because the competitive edge factor isn't the same as it is with steroids.
 
The competitive edge factor of using stimulants when the other guys aren't IS significant. That's why they're banned, and that's why using them without proper medical clearance, or WITH a bullshit medical clearance is cheating.
 

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I'm pretty sure I've read that Adderall by those who don't medically need it has become the stimulant of choice for collegiate academic all-nighters.
 
 
Fred not Lynn, on 12 Sept 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:
Fred not Lynn said:
Problem is if you open the door to "use", you get abuse. If an athlete believes one pill will make him better,
 
 
And one pill makes him worse, but the ones that Mother gives you . . .  
 

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joe dokes said:
I'm pretty sure I've read that Adderall by those who don't medically need it has become the stimulant of choice for collegiate academic all-nighters.
Yeah it's basically the easiest drug to find on college campuses as of 4 years ago.
 

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https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/510479498110722049
 


Sources: Chris Davis did not have a therapeutic-use exemption in 2013 or 2014. His TUE had been prior to that.
 

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kenneycb said:
Yeah it's basically the easiest drug to find on college campuses as of 4 years ago.
 
Yup, and a lot of non-ADHD students use them for testing, which is 100% cheating in my book, just as it would be for a MLB hitter. The ability to focus at the plate is of extreme importance.
 
And now Davis lied to help cover his monster 2013 numbers. Dude's a cheater, not a suffering ADHD victim.  
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Plympton91 said:
How does that compare to the rate in the overall population, and would we expect to see elite athletes have a greater or lesser rate than generally.

I'm reminded of all the swimmers who have miraculously overcome asthma.

There's a bunch of people on the O's I'd like to see tested regularly. Steve Pearce suddenly discovered how to translate his minor league numbers to the majors when he went there. Joseph went from noncontributor in AAA to a contributor in the majors. Gonzalez went from a 26 year old bust at Salem in 2010 to a mid-rotation starter for Baltimore in 2011. Tommy Hunter all of a sudden throws 98 instead of 91 (though the move to the pen may .. may .. explain that). Markakis all of sudden got good again this year. Davis last year. And, Nelson Cruz is making a mockery of the idea that drugs aren't still in use.
 
Markakis, at least, is right in line with the rest of his career numbers except for a bad year last year. His OPS+ is 104 this year, career is 113. Last year was the first time he ever had an OPS+ below 100 for a season. Given that he's slugging all of .382 this season, I'm going to go ahead and guess that he's one of the least likely guys there to be currently using. He's only 30, it's not like he's 35 and suddenly OPSing 100 points better than he's ever done before.
 

redsahx

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The competitive edge factor of using stimulants when the other guys aren't IS significant. That's why they're banned, and that's why using them without proper medical clearance, or WITH a bullshit medical clearance is cheating.
Full disclosure, I was one of those kids diagnosed with ADD in the late 80s and early 90s. I took Ritalin for a period in middle school and high school but stopped before college. However, a few years into my professional career I mentioned to my doctor that I was really struggling to stay focused at work and he suggested I could try Adderall and see how I responded to it. I continued to take it when I started taking graduate courses a few years later.
FWIW I don't really take any issue with your argument. It is perfectly logical and consistent, and there are plenty of holes in my laissez-faire attitude towards the subject for you to poke through. I'm sort of just being candid about my attitude for the sake of discussion. My main purpose for initially posting in the thread wasn't to fully excuse Adderall use in baseball, only to object to it being considered an equivalent to steroid use in the context of explaining the performance of Chris Davis last season, which I do stand by.
I just don't view it as black-and-white cheating. In the NFL, I don't mind a guy taking Adderall to help him stay more alert in film study and absorb a playbook faster. I have a much stronger objection to that same guy using steroids to give him a physical advantage over guys he will be running into on Sunday. In baseball, if a guy is using Adderall under a false pretense, he deserves a punishment, but how much the competition is skewed in that case is tough to tell. It is much different than say a pitcher on steroids who is able to recover much faster in between appearances and thus maintain velocity and command in a way other guys he is competing with for a roster spot cannot.

I'm pretty sure I've read that Adderall by those who don't medically need it has become the stimulant of choice for collegiate academic all-nighters.
I have no doubt it’s true. My wife gave birth to our first child while I was still completing my Master’s degree in Engineering, and as mentioned above I had a prescription at the time. I was able to finish two major projects and study for a final exam on an average of 3 hours sleep those first few weeks after she was born. I still felt awful a good amount of the time, but at least I could actually maintain focus enough to get things done. I doubt I could have done that without the help. Not sure what the differences are for someone who is not considered to have the medical need; I just know that I don’t really feel wired, just more focused and eager to get to work. It isn’t addictive to me either, and I avoid taking it on weekends or during vacations, and skip doses during the week too if I don’t feel the need. I made sure not to mention to others at school that I used it, because I didn’t want to deal with worrying about giving someone motivation to try and search through my stuff anytime I’m not looking, or having to deal with people coming up to me and asking if they could get them some.
 

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joe dokes said:
I'm pretty sure I've read that Adderall by those who don't medically need it has become the stimulant of choice for collegiate academic all-nighters.
Adderall had already all but replace Ritalin for this by my 3rd or 4th year of college (c. 1996-97ish). Ritalin remained popular recreationally, but most people who wanted to study/work preferred Adderall.
 

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Dewy4PrezII said:
If he had a prescription for Adderall it was likely for ADHD and as explained to me by my son's therapist, stimulants effect people with ADHD differently than people without ADHD.  A stimulant, like Adderall or Focalin actually calms people with ADHD and allows them to focus rather than getting them wired like they would to a non-ADHD sufferer.  It is performance enhancing, yes, it allows people with a psychological disorder (ADHD) to focus when they wouldn't otherwise be able to. 
Why not take Provigil? Not a stimulant but supposedly helps with focus.
 

redsahx

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Yup, and a lot of non-ADHD students use them for testing, which is 100% cheating in my book, just as it would be for a MLB hitter. The ability to focus at the plate is of extreme importance.
 
And now Davis lied to help cover his monster 2013 numbers. Dude's a cheater, not a suffering ADHD victim.
 
Jonah Keri had a very interesting piece last year investigating how Chris Davis managed to suddenly morph into a monster at the plate. Some of the key points were how his plate discipline had dramatically improved, as well as his ability to recognize and start killing offspeed and breaking pitches. Not sure if this can be traced to focus at the plate, or not. Apparently he had a TUE prior to 2013, so he would have conceivably been taking this earlier when he was still prone to chasing pitches in the dirt.

As far as academics goes, I'm torn. On the one hand kids taking Adderall without ADHD who end up doing better on a test can skew the grade curve for other students. The flip side is Adderall doesn't give you the answers to a test, or allow you to solve problems you never studied or learned, so I hesitate to call it cheating. Testing is a BS way to evaluate people in many fields anyways. Most real-life skills don't involve being told to solve a few problems in less than an hour without looking up references. The key is whether you actually absorbed the knowledge. Adderall could help some study more effectively, and perhaps focus better on a test, but isn't the point of college to teach people, and the point of a test to make sure that a person has actually absorbed the necessary knowledge to pass the subject? I guess YMMV depending on whether you view college more as an academic competition, or as simply a place to acquire knowledge. It should be the latter IMO.

So if I am looking to hire someone, I wouldn't look at someone who took Adderall illegally to pass a test the same as I would someone who needed to steal the answers or plagarize to pass a course. In the former case I know that person actually went through and learned the material, in the latter you would assume they didn't.
 

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Steroids don't hit homeruns either. You still have to train. Abusing either is bad.

I have ADHD and take Vyvanse but it's a stimulant along the same lines. It helps me focus and makes me more social for whatever reason. As far as physically, it doesn't help me. I may be able to focus but if I'm beat, I'm beat. I exercise a lot, but if I'm not feeling up to it, popping a vyvanse won't change that. And when I am feeling it, it doesn't elevate the experience.

But I have ADHD and don't abuse the drug. Redbulls, no doze calm me down.
 

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redsahx said:
Adderrall would have absolutely nothing to do with him suddenly becoming an elite power hitter last year. He was likely taking them legally earlier in his career and earlier this season anyways (assuming he had a prescription). Regardless, Adderall use by MLB guys doesn't bother me at all. It doesn't help you put on muscle or boost power; it basically serves as a stimulant to keep guys awake and focused and after say a late night out drinking or a long red-eye flight.
This is incorrect.

Adderall will help you immensely when you're trying to focus on a small ball coming at you at 90 MPH.
 

redsahx

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knucklecup said:
This is incorrect.

Adderall will help you immensely when you're trying to focus on a small ball coming at you at 90 MPH.
Has there been any medical opinion or study on this ? I think his performance this year and in previous years where he evidently was using the stuff shows it can 't have much of a benefit. You can focus all you want, it won 't give you better coordination for swinging at major league pitching.
 

knucklecup

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Adderall is a hybrid cocaine and NO-Xplode. There's no doubt it's going to enhance your performance.

There were times when I would take adderall in college and I would be benching 25-50 pounds heavier. The difference between a 225 x 3 reps and pumping it out for 8-10 if that makes sense. Or a max sans adderall of 255 and a max with of 285.

You also feel as if you have more control. 5 second negative, 1 second at chest, 2 second positive. Your mind is focused on the cadence.

This would translate to the basketball court during IM games as well. It's amazing how much easier it is to insert a ball into a round hole when wide open in the corner on adderall. Makes me wonder if Ray Allen has adderall running through his veins constantly.
 

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I'm an academic at a respected university and teach a huge course with 700 students, most of whom are pre-med. I have no way of knowing how many of my students are on Adderall, nor do I care. I suspect it's reasonably high.
 
Those of you who think college students on Adderall are "cheating" have a very unrealistic picture of college. We teach students and (hopefully) set them up to succeed in life - where any non-pro athlete can take as much Adderall as they want. The university does not claim to be a level playing field, except in that each course is administered fairly. The students are free to (and should) figure out how they can best learn, be productive, and be happy. If that involves an Adderall proscription, so be it.
 

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I have to think there's a reason so many athletes get busted for Adderall use. I believe it can be used both before games to increase focus and may help with work outs by decreasing fatigue. There are others around here with a better understanding, but I do believe they can be used as PEDs. I've also read arguments on both sides on its potential to act as a masking agent for roids.
Davis had to be busted twice to get the 25 game suspension. Anyone have any idea why Davis would do this? I understand that after the 2012 JDA, there was an independent panel of experts reviewing the TUEs, but Davis didn't have a TUE in 2013 so presumably he wasn't using it (or at least not very much) when he had his monster season.

Is it possible that he was taking something else and took Adderall on top of it to give himself a better explanation if he was tested?

Maybe he felt like he had nothing to lose - that his season was so bad he thought he'd rather be suspended for 25 games than go into the playoffs hitting as bad as he was.

Seems really incongruous to me.
 

Plympton91

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If we assume his condition is legit, perhaps his symptoms flared up and he felt the need to go back on? Of course, why not get back on through the TUE process. Hence, not legit in the past either, right?
 

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Ed Hillel said:
 
Yup, and a lot of non-ADHD students use them for testing, which is 100% cheating in my book, just as it would be for a MLB hitter. The ability to focus at the plate is of extreme importance.
 
And now Davis lied to help cover his monster 2013 numbers. Dude's a cheater, not a suffering ADHD victim.  
 
 
Why is it cheating in a university course?  It's cheating in sports because players are in competition with each other. In an educational setting the purpose is to acquire knowledge - not finish ahead of as many other students as possible as measured by some arbitrary testing regime.
 

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Ed Hillel said:
 
Yup, and a lot of non-ADHD students use them for testing, which is 100% cheating in my book, just as it would be for a MLB hitter. The ability to focus at the plate is of extreme importance.
 
And now Davis lied to help cover his monster 2013 numbers. Dude's a cheater, not a suffering ADHD victim.  
 
I'm a little late in responding to this, but why can't he be both?
 

Fred not Lynn

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BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
 
 
Why is it cheating in a university course?  It's cheating in sports because players are in competition with each other. In an educational setting the purpose is to acquire knowledge - not finish ahead of as many other students as possible as measured by some arbitrary testing regime.
It's cheating in sports because someone made a rule that says it is. If academia created a similar rule, it would be cheating there, too. People talk a lot about what is and isn't "cheating", when in fact the existence of books full of rules do a pretty good job of spelling it out in most cases.