Change of Address for Kevin Love - How About Causeway Street?

[Cellar-Door]

It's hard to speculate until you see what direction other teams are going in.

Cleveland, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Orlando, and Utah, and then Boston. We're kind of the most desirable location of those spots ahead of us. Not that the Lakers have much else to offer but it's at least fortunate to be ahead of them.

I don't think Cleveland trades the pick. If they do, that's where Love will end up.

I don't see him resigning long term in Milwaukee, Orlando, or Utah.

Philly makes sense but I feel like they've had a plan developing for the last couple years, particularly in drafting Noel, that they'll try to stick to. It's not often that you have a similarly aged, similarly priced, young core that can develop together. Does Love make sense in Philadelphia?

I'm excited about the prospects of acquiring Love.

I don't see him re-signing with any of the top 6 teams.
One possibility is they hang onto Love for part of the season and see how the rookie class looks. If one of his preferred destinations hits say one of the Bulls picks, that might make a trade easier. The other route is a deal for talent in the league and future picks.

 

[wutang112878]

Minny doesnt have to trade Love, but effectively this is the last year of his deal since he is opting out of his option.  They could trade him mid-season but by then he might help them win enough games to have another bad lottery.  If it were me I would either want to resign him ASAP or move him ASAP to figure out how I rebuild this rebuilt team, basically after years of drifting out in the ocean I would want a clear path to somewhere
 

They'd have to dip into the future 1's now at the least.

 
I dont know.  Say we offered the #6, the #17 and Sully, I'd be curious to see how Minny would react to that.  They get a young somewhat proven player in Sully and two decent picks.  I dont think they could really get better draft compensation than that because I dont think any team above us in the draft would be more likely than us to trade for him since they are in even worse shape than we are.  And as for future picks there is a lot of risk in not knowing what number you will get and what are the chances they could ever get a pick above 6?  If I was Minny looking at this deal while it might now be amazing, they do get 3 very concrete, tangible assets and I cant envision them getting much better packages from anyone else in the league.

 

[wutang112878]

I agree they would want to move him at the draft even if Taylor is adamant they won't. To say we weren't just dealt a major blow in what it would take to acquire him is dead wrong. They aren't going to give him away for #6 and Sully, that isn't even in the conversation.......they could have for #3 and Sully.

 
I think this is overestimating the market value of superstars.  Take KG he went for Al Jefferson a promising but not superstar commodity and some other decent assets.  The Knicks sent Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov and a 2014 first-round draft pick to the Nuggets, none of which were really an elite building block.  I dont think the Lakers gave up much more than Bynum for Dwight Howard.  Those are all guys who probably all have more value than Love.  Is there really a precedent for a superstar that has really netted a team a boatload of assets?  Now, Melo and Howard were pushing their way out and Minny was kind of doing right by KG but really they all had more value than Love because they were unquestionably considered franchise/max guys.

 

[Devizier]

Unlike those guys, Love is 25. He's also coming off his best season. That said, an expiring contract is an expiring contract. The Celtics can make the deal if they want to.

 

[wutang112878]

Howard and Melo were both 26

 

[Brickowski]

Sacramento is already looking to trade pick no. 8. I wonder what kind of offer the Kings would be willing to make for Love.

 

[Swedgin]

Sacramento is already looking to trade pick no. 8. I wonder what kind of offer the Kings would be willing to make for Love.

Does not seem like a good match.   Hard to imagine Love wants to go to Sactown.   Plus from a roster construction perspective he and Cousins are a poor fit.  
 
Having whiffed on Jimmer and given up on Thomas Robinson, the Kings assets are pretty limited notwithstanding their frequent trips to the lottery.  They have Cousins, Derrick Williams, McLemore and Isiah Thomas.   Doubt MN wants Williams back and for better or worse they are committed to Rubio, so Thomas and his impending payday are not all that attractive.   Cousins and the 8th pick would be too much, which leaves the 8th pick and McLemore plus filler.   

 

[Brickowski]

Suppose Sacramento offered Cousins and #8 for Love and #13? That looks reasonably fair to me. And Sacramento would put Love a lot closer to his girlfriend in LA than Boston.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Guys, listen to Bill Simmons. He knows stuff. For instance, as he said at halftime last night, LeBron James was distracted in the first quarter because he heard Cleveland won the lottery and wasn't focused on the Pacers. LeBron's going to talk to Gilbert and Love, the Cavs are going to send Thompson, Bennett, Waiters, and #1 overall for Love and the sign James in free agency. Exactly how the NBA is willing it.

 

[Brickowski]

What would be the point? Love would be on a terrible team, and one with as weak a track record (if not worse) than the T-Wolves. The Kings would still be awful, just different.

True enough. But if Love he waits it out to join the Lakers in 2015 (which he can do if he simply refuses to sign an extension anywhere) he'll be on a team as lousy as the Kings.

I suppose the Clips might be an option if he's dying to go to Cali

 

[Devizier]

No offense to Sacramentans, but Sacramento is just an awful city.

 

[crystalline]

Guys, listen to Bill Simmons. He knows stuff. For instance, as he said at halftime last night, LeBron James was distracted in the first quarter because he heard Cleveland won the lottery and wasn't focused on the Pacers. LeBron's going to talk to Gilbert and Love, the Cavs are going to send Thompson, Bennett, Waiters, and #1 overall for Love and the sign James in free agency. Exactly how the NBA is willing it.

 
Yes, if you think the NBA rigged the lottery, this is the theory - to get LeBron to sign with CLE for a feelgood marketable story.  (Doesn't matter whether they trade for Love or just make the #1 pick).
 
I realize you don't think the NBA rigged the lottery.  I don't think Bill Simmons really does either. 
 

 
As for the Spurs, not if you consider salary, and as for the Pacers, I'd probably rather have Paul George.  YMMV

 
Not captured by win shares are Paul George's effects on team chemistry when he sleeps with other guys wives and girlfriends.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
I think this is overestimating the market value of superstars.  Take KG he went for Al Jefferson a promising but not superstar commodity and some other decent assets.  The Knicks sent Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov and a 2014 first-round draft pick to the Nuggets, none of which were really an elite building block.  I dont think the Lakers gave up much more than Bynum for Dwight Howard.  Those are all guys who probably all have more value than Love.  Is there really a precedent for a superstar that has really netted a team a boatload of assets?  Now, Melo and Howard were pushing their way out and Minny was kind of doing right by KG but really they all had more value than Love because they were unquestionably considered franchise/max guys.

I wasn't talking about a boatload of assets.....all I said was I can't imagine only the 6th pick in a top tier 4-player draft and a limited upside player such as Sullinger getting it done. Jefferson was an impact player they could market as "a 20/10 guy" which isn't close to the case here.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Boston Celtics

The deal: Trade Machine 

Celtics receive: Kevin Love 
Wolves receive: Kelly Olynyk, Jared Sullinger, Brandon Bass, Phil Pressey,Vitor Faverani, Nos. 6 and 17 picks in 2014, Celtics’ first-round pick in 2016 

Here, the Wolves are basically getting the picks and then a bunch of cap filler and former first-rounders. There’s no reason to pretend Olynyk and Sullinger would be pieces for the Wolves at all. Being a Wolves fan since they've come into the NBA, I am pretty good at recognizing overvalued first-round picks who won’t be as good as you hope they are. This is about the picks, and with Nos. 6, 13 and 17 in this draft, they could load up or move up. 
 
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/68391/gift-of-love-29-trades-for-29-teams

 

[Brickowski]

I don't think the Wolves will get anything vaguely close to that for Love.

 

[E5 Yaz]

NBA trades, more than any other sport, are about making the math work out. You look at each of the 30 trade scenarios ESPN devised, you'd never make most of those deals on paper. But that's not how it's done.
 
In the end, Love will be traded in a deal that will be far more complicated than for a player and a pick

 

[Brickowski]

First, Love's agent has to find interested teams with which Love is willing to sign an extension. The Wolves will take the best offer from one of those teams, or else lose him for nothing. MN has no bargaining power because keeping Love is not an option for them.

 

[MakMan44]

https://twitter.com/Toucherandrich/status/469117643639644160

 

[Dim13]

SI (Mannix) did a post-draft mock and has the Celtics taking Marcus Smart. What was interesting to me was what he wrote about the slot. I'm bolding what I found interesting:
 

 
 
As noted above, the last time the Celtics had a top-10 pick they traded it. This selection could be trade bait, too, especially with Love reportedly willing to sign an extension with Boston. If the Celtics keep the pick, Smart is appealing as a physical point guard who can complement Rajon Rondo now and potentially replace him down the road.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20140521/nba-mock-draft-cavaliers-andrew-wiggins-joel-embiid-jabari-parker/#ixzz32NWY9a00

 
Is anyone else reporting that Love is willing to sign an extension with the C's? Wondering if it is a mistake on Mannix's part there since I haven't heard anything like this anywhere else.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

SI (Mannix) did a post-draft mock and has the Celtics taking Marcus Smart. What was interesting to me was what he wrote about the slot. I'm bolding what I found interesting:
 
 
Is anyone else reporting that Love is willing to sign an extension with the C's? Wondering if it is a mistake on Mannix's part there since I haven't heard anything like this anywhere else.

 
I've seen that implied a couple of places. Love's "people" explained that Love isn't necessarily looking to be traded to a team that will compete immediately, but wants to go to an organization that's well run and has a longterm plan to build a contender. Boston was specifically cited.

 

[CreightonGubanich]

I don't think it's completely crazy to consider the possibility of Pierce signing in Boston for one last year for short money. If the Celtics can swing a deal for Love while holding onto Rondo, they're not really in rebuilding mode anymore. Pierce is an unrestricted free agent, and he's said he's got one, maybe two years left. It seems to me, with Love and Rondo, the two biggest needs on the roster are: rim-protecting center, and shot-creating, floor-spacing wing player. Pierce fills that last spot pretty well, even at his age. He wouldn't have to be the primary scorer, but could fill a role as a guy creating offense of the dribble.
 
Rondo, Bradley, Pierce, Love and Asik might not be a title contender, but they're a playoff team, they'd be fun to watch, and with the Brooklyn picks, you still have a chance to pick up that missing piece that can put them over the top.

 

[bowiac]

Rondo, Bradley, Pierce, Love and Asik might not be a title contender, but they're a playoff team, they'd be fun to watch, and with the Brooklyn picks, you still have a chance to pick up that missing piece that can put them over the top.

This team would be hilarious. I think they'd score like 75 a game.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

SI (Mannix) did a post-draft mock and has the Celtics taking Marcus Smart. What was interesting to me was what he wrote about the slot. I'm bolding what I found interesting:
 
 
Is anyone else reporting that Love is willing to sign an extension with the C's? Wondering if it is a mistake on Mannix's part there since I haven't heard anything like this anywhere else.

Does Mannix even realize that the Celtics will almsot surely be moving the #6 pick to Minnesota? Now if he had inside knowledge that we could move future multiple picks with little or no protection instead I'd give Mannix the benefit of the doubt. However it appears he was rushing to write a piece and got lazy and/or sloppy.

 

[Cellar-Door]

 
I think this is overestimating the market value of superstars.  Take KG he went for Al Jefferson a promising but not superstar commodity and some other decent assets.  The Knicks sent Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov and a 2014 first-round draft pick to the Nuggets, none of which were really an elite building block.  I dont think the Lakers gave up much more than Bynum for Dwight Howard.  Those are all guys who probably all have more value than Love.  Is there really a precedent for a superstar that has really netted a team a boatload of assets?  Now, Melo and Howard were pushing their way out and Minny was kind of doing right by KG but really they all had more value than Love because they were unquestionably considered franchise/max guys.

KG went for:
Al Jefferson- a 22 year old who was coming of a 16/11 season.
Gerald Green- a 21 year old first rounder who people still thought had a really high ceiling.
Ryan Gomes- 24 year old rotation player
Sebastien Telfair- scrub
Theo Ratliff- huge expiring
and Two 1st rounders.
 
The DEN trade for Melo, Chandler, Mosgov, Gallinari all were highly thought of at the time even if none panned out as expected. Chandler, Gallinari and Felton were all putting up 15 a game at that point.
 
Sullinger is not as good a piece as the best piece in either of those deals, so a trade with him as the centerpiece needs at least a few picks and another player with high potential.

 

[Brickowski]

https://twitter.com/Toucherandrich/status/469117643639644160

So would I, but not if the 6th pick in a strong draft is involved. I'd be happy to gamble on a one-year rental for Love if MN is willing to take Green, Bass and a future first.

 

[Cellar-Door]

So would I, but not if the 6th pick in a strong draft is involved. I'd be happy to gamble on a one-year rental for Love if MN is willing to take Green, Bass and a future first.

Can't imagine that would be enough. I'd be willing to let Sullinger go pretty easily if we were keeping the 6. Green, Bass, Sully, LAC 1st? I'd probably do that, the question is whether MIN would.
 
CLE is the team that should be pursuing Love hard. They can move the #1 pick and one or two of their highly drafted guys (THompson, Bennett, Waiters They also have a ton of future picks (3 total next year, and none owed except a possible swap with Chicago).

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

So would I, but not if the 6th pick in a strong draft is involved. I'd be happy to gamble on a one-year rental for Love if MN is willing to take Green, Bass and a future first.

 
None of the reports out there are indicating this would be a one year rental.

 

[Cellar-Door]

 
None of the reports out there are indicating this would be a one year rental.

I think Brick means he would gamble on Love if Love isn't willing to agree that he'll re-sign or extend before the trade is made.
So it could be a 1 year rental in that case.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I think Brick means he would gamble on Love if Love isn't willing to agree that he'll re-sign or extend before the trade is made.
So it could be a 1 year rental in that case.

 
But his "people" have made it pretty clear that he's interested in Boston long term. Not sure why we're discussing the idea of a deal for a one year rental.

 

[Brickowski]

None of the reports out there are indicating this would be a one year rental.Shertenlieb

Then who do you think Ainge had in mind when he (allegedly) made the comment above? I'm pretty sure I can figure out who Toucher and Shertenlieb had in mind when they asked the question.

If Love is interested in Boston long term, why won't he agree to an extension up front?

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Then who do you think Ainge had in mind when he (allegedly) made the comment above? I'm pretty sure I can figure out who Toucher and Shertenlieb had in mind when they asked the question.

If Love is interested in Boston long term, why won't he agree to an extension up front?

 
Because of the financial difference between an extension and opting out and re-signing. An extension would cost him millions of dollars. Becoming an UFA and then re-signing with Boston would not. Love's not going to sign an extension with anybody. But he's willing to re-sign with plenty of teams, Boston being one of them.

 

[Brickowski]

Because of the financial difference between an extension and opting out and re-signing. An extension would cost him millions of dollars.

Assuming Love re-signs for the max. Do you think he's a $20M player?

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Assuming Love re-signs for the max. Do you think he's a $20M player?

I do, yes.

 

[Devizier]

This team would be hilarious. I think they'd score like 75 a game.

 
Yeah, a team with Rondo, Bradley, and Asik on the court is going to be horrendous offensively, unless the other two guys are Durant and James.

 

[bowiac]

Assuming Love re-signs for the max. Do you think he's a $20M player?

As detailed, I'm a Love skeptic, but I'd give him the max in a heartbeat. It's the trading a ton of assets for the right to have a chance to convince him take max in Boston that's in doubt for me.

 

[Brickowski]

I do, yes.

I think that teams need to think very, very carefully about spending one third of their cap on one player--especially on a long term deal-- under the regime established by the new CBA. IMHO the only two players worth it at the moment are LeBron and Durant.

No team is winning a championship without 3-4 solid contributors who are cost controlled unless ownership is willing to pay a very painful amount of luxury tax. And the deals that have been proposed involve the Celtics trading away their best cost controlled young players and the draft picks that might get them a few more.

 

[Devizier]

I think that teams need to think very, very carefully about spending one third of their cap on one player--especially on a long term deal-- under the regime established by the new CBA. IMHO the only two players worth it at the moment are LeBron and Durant.

 
There are more than 20 max-salary players in the NBA. Pretty much anyone who qualifies as an NBA star, plus some guys that do not, are getting a max contract. You could argue that they don't deserve that money, but I think history is against you. Why? Because every championship squad in the NBA since the '04 Pistons has had at least one max-salary player. Several (Miami, Boston, Lakers) employed more than one.
 
Just below the maximum salary level, you have supporting guys like Pekovic, Rondo, West, Iguodala, Batum, etc. Those players don't come at any significant discount.
 
If you're arguing that it's very hard to win a championship without Lebron James, then duh.

 

[Brickowski]

Actually only 6 players had base salaries in excess of $20M in 2013-14, and LeBron wasn't one of them. All of six are veteran stars whose current basketball value is considerably less than what they are being paid, with the possible exception of Nowitzki.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Actually only 6 players had base salaries in excess of $20M in 2013-14, and LeBron wasn't one of them. All of six are veteran stars whose current basketball value is considerably less than what they are being paid, with the possible exception of Nowitzki.

That is because the max is a percentage of the cap. Love will be at 19 or so, then into the 20s because the cap just wen up, and will go up again.

 

[Brickowski]

That is because the max is a percentage of the cap. Love will be at 19 or so, then into the 20s because the cap just wen up, and will go up again.

Only if some team is willing to pay it. You really have to admire how Jeff Schwartz is playing the league at this point.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Only if some team is willing to pay it. You really have to admire how Jeff Schwartz is playing the league at this point.

30 teams would be willing to pay it.

 

[mcpickl]

I think that teams need to think very, very carefully about spending one third of their cap on one player--especially on a long term deal-- under the regime established by the new CBA. IMHO the only two players worth it at the moment are LeBron and Durant.

No team is winning a championship without 3-4 solid contributors who are cost controlled unless ownership is willing to pay a very painful amount of luxury tax. And the deals that have been proposed involve the Celtics trading away their best cost controlled young players and the draft picks that might get them a few more.

You might be right, but what do you do if there are other teams willing to give a max deal to say, any of the top 25 players?
 
Just decide to rule out having any of the top 25 players in the league because they might be overpaid?
 
You'll save some money, but will be rooting for ping-pong balls every spring.

 

[Brickowski]

30 teams would be willing to pay it.

Are you Jeff Schwartz?

 

[Cellar-Door]

Only if some team is willing to pay it. You really have to admire how Jeff Schwartz is playing the league at this point.

He isn't playing anyone. Kevin Love is even to me someone who has been very down on him one of the 20 best players in the league, he will get a max deal, there is zero doubt about that. This isn't Greg Monroe or Andre Iguodala, he's a legit top talent and will get paid accordingly.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I think that teams need to think very, very carefully about spending one third of their cap on one player--especially on a long term deal-- under the regime established by the new CBA. IMHO the only two players worth it at the moment are LeBron and Durant.

No team is winning a championship without 3-4 solid contributors who are cost controlled unless ownership is willing to pay a very painful amount of luxury tax. And the deals that have been proposed involve the Celtics trading away their best cost controlled young players and the draft picks that might get them a few more.

The "1/3 of the cap" statement really isn't accurate since a) Ainge is never going to be competing for a Championship while being under the cap and b) Wyc and Co have shown they would go over the luxury tax line when making a title run. They were over $80m when KG's salary alone was more than what Love would make at the max.

 

[Devizier]

That is because the max is a percentage of the cap. Love will be at 19 or so, then into the 20s because the cap just wen up, and will go up again.

 
The max is also dependent on how many years a player has spent in the NBA, which is how Kobe can earn ~$30M.

 

[Brickowski]

Well, if he's really a lock to receive the maximum from everyone, he ought to wait a year and take his pick among the 30 teams. Even if he's traded away from MN he should refuse to sign an extension and simply audition for free agency in 2015. Why should any team give value for him until 2015?

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Are you Jeff Schwartz?

If Kevin Love's name was Kaspar Ljubav you'd be posting 15 times a day pushing for the Celtics to give him 3 max deals.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Well, if he's really a lock to receive the maximum from everyone, he ought to wait a year and take his pick among the 30 teams. Even if he's traded away from MN he should refuse to sign an extension and simply audition for free agency in 2015. Why should any team give value for him until 2015?

So they can acquire him even if the don't have cap space.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Well, if he's really a lock to receive the maximum from everyone, he ought to wait a year and take his pick among the 30 teams. Even if he's traded away from MN he should refuse to sign an extension and simply audition for free agency in 2015. Why should any team give value for him until 2015?

Because like most max players he isn't going to want to be limited to the teams that have cap space, also he doesn't want to be in MIN this year.
I doubt he signs an extension with anyone, it would cost him a ton of money. What he might do is privately assure the team he is traded to that he will opt out then re-sign at the max. He gives that if he likes the team setup so he plays one less year in MIN and the team he goes to can start building around him (coach, other players etc.)