Sully, Gerald Wallace and our own 1st pick this year is all I'm willing to give...use the rest of the trade chips to get other building blocks
Change of Address for Kevin Love - How About Causeway Street?
- Thread starter the1andonly3003
- Start date
- Status
It's a pretty open secret out here in Oregon, where he went to high school, that Love wants to play in Los Angeles. He's probably at the point where he can dictate a trade to wherever he wants to go, simply by going the Dwight Howard route and not signing an extension with any place Minnesota would send him ... unless he gets his way.
That was the word on Garnett, too (home in Malibu, etc.) Celtics still got him. I think a move for Love necessitates another quality veteran acquisition in order to secure an extension, so we will see. If the Celtics score a top three pick, everything gets easier regardless of the route they take.
I wouldn't give a player for Love. It would be Humphries (expiring), Bayless (expiring) or Bogans (nonguaranteed) and the pick (but not if it's top 3). And even then, are folks comfortable with giving Love a 5-year, $100M extension? Because that's what he'll demand wherever he goes.
Brickowski said:
I'm confused by your post. You are advocating trading for Love with 2 free agents not under contract with the Celtics, someone who will be released, and a non top 3 pick. Not only will this not be enough for Minnesota, it is impossible.
Any potential trade will almost surely have Sullinger or Olynyk in it (if not both) along with this year's lottery pick. Possibly a future pick or two as well.
I'm not sure if the Celtics should be offering that or not, but if they are, they need to get Love to agree to an extension.
Brain fart by me. Yes, Humphries, Bayless and Bogans became untradeable when the February deadline passed.
No one can match what boston can offer in quantity.
Can you sell Love and Rondo on
PG) Rondo
SG) Gordon Hayward
SF) Jeff Green
PF Kevin Love
PF/C ( Embib/ Olynyly/ Randle ?)
Humphries
Wallace
Sully would probably have to be traded and they'd be a defensive minded big man away. Maybe sell one of the 9 draft picks for Tyson Chandler if Embib or Randle are not available
I dont include this years pick if its in the top 4-5.
Can you sell Love and Rondo on
PG) Rondo
SG) Gordon Hayward
SF) Jeff Green
PF Kevin Love
PF/C ( Embib/ Olynyly/ Randle ?)
Humphries
Wallace
Sully would probably have to be traded and they'd be a defensive minded big man away. Maybe sell one of the 9 draft picks for Tyson Chandler if Embib or Randle are not available
I dont include this years pick if its in the top 4-5.
Brickowski said:
Bogans can still be traded. He has a non guaranteed deal, so he might be useful in a trade for a team looking to clear the books. That's the entire reason Danny decided not to cut him when he left the team.
Hump and Bayless aren't options though.
Woj's latest on Love
The Boston Celtics have emerged as an increasingly intriguing destination for Minnesota Timberwolves All-Star forward Kevin Love, and the Celtics' draft position coming out of Tuesday night's lottery could be telltale in determining the feasibility of a trade, league sources told Yahoo Sports.
If the lottery percentages hold to form, Boston would draft in the No. 5 slot, which could hold appeal to Minnesota in this talent-rich draft. If Boston moves up and cracks one of the top three spots, general manager Danny Ainge would have a more difficult decision to make on using the pick in a deal for Love.
Love's representatives with Excel Sports are pushing Timberwolves president Flip Saunders to find a trade acceptable to them before the beginning of summer free agency in July – preferably by the June 26 NBA draft, league sources told Yahoo Sports.
Love plans to opt out of his contract in the summer of 2015 and leave Minnesota as a free agent, league sources told Yahoo Sports.
Still, Boston is the sleeper gathering momentum in a process that is still beginning to unfold. The three top prospects in the draft – Kansas' Joel Embiid and Andrew Wiggins and Duke's Jabari Parker – could become franchise cornerstone players in the NBA. Nevertheless, Boston has multiple picks to offer in the next several years as part of a total package for Love, as well as the salary-cap space to perhaps take back an unwanted contract from Minnesota.
Love's agent Jeff Schwartz and Ainge have a strong relationship and a good working history. Ainge helped another Schwartz client, Paul Pierce, get to a preferred trade destination in Brooklyn a year ago. The Celtics believe they can sell Love on becoming the next big Celtics star, and all the adulation that comes with that for a franchise that has won 17 NBA championships.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/celtics-loom-as-intriguing-destination-for-kevin-love-211238504.html
The Boston Celtics have emerged as an increasingly intriguing destination for Minnesota Timberwolves All-Star forward Kevin Love, and the Celtics' draft position coming out of Tuesday night's lottery could be telltale in determining the feasibility of a trade, league sources told Yahoo Sports.
If the lottery percentages hold to form, Boston would draft in the No. 5 slot, which could hold appeal to Minnesota in this talent-rich draft. If Boston moves up and cracks one of the top three spots, general manager Danny Ainge would have a more difficult decision to make on using the pick in a deal for Love.
Love's representatives with Excel Sports are pushing Timberwolves president Flip Saunders to find a trade acceptable to them before the beginning of summer free agency in July – preferably by the June 26 NBA draft, league sources told Yahoo Sports.
Love plans to opt out of his contract in the summer of 2015 and leave Minnesota as a free agent, league sources told Yahoo Sports.
Still, Boston is the sleeper gathering momentum in a process that is still beginning to unfold. The three top prospects in the draft – Kansas' Joel Embiid and Andrew Wiggins and Duke's Jabari Parker – could become franchise cornerstone players in the NBA. Nevertheless, Boston has multiple picks to offer in the next several years as part of a total package for Love, as well as the salary-cap space to perhaps take back an unwanted contract from Minnesota.
Love's agent Jeff Schwartz and Ainge have a strong relationship and a good working history. Ainge helped another Schwartz client, Paul Pierce, get to a preferred trade destination in Brooklyn a year ago. The Celtics believe they can sell Love on becoming the next big Celtics star, and all the adulation that comes with that for a franchise that has won 17 NBA championships.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/celtics-loom-as-intriguing-destination-for-kevin-love-211238504.html
So I guess the package would be Bogans, Bass and either Sullinger or Olynyck, plus the lotto pick, for Love? I'm just not that interested given the cap clogging deal that Love would demand, because I don't think he puts them close to contention. I suppose a resigned Love would be another trading chip for Ainge, but monster deals aren't that easy to move under the new CBA with its de facto hard cap.radsoxfan said:
I'd rather add two good young players, especially if one of them is Embiid.
Brickowski said:
Probably have to throw in at least one of our future 1st rounders as well. I'm a bit torn on the Love idea. Great offensive player, but not sure if it's worth it to give up a ton for him. Embiid would actually be the perfect pair for Love, but don't see how it's possible to end up with both of them, even if the ping pong balls go our way.
Unfortunately, Love+Rondo needs quite a bit of additional help to be a great team. Love had a poor mans version of Rondo in Minny with Rubio, and that combo wasn't very useful. I am still fine with making incremental improvements instead of figuring it all out at once, so if Love can be had for a reasonable price, I'd be on board. Replacing Sullinger with Love definitely makes the team much better.
If the pick is 5 or lower I would do it, top 3 is a little tricker. Of course, if the pick isn't top 3, there is a chance Minnesota loses interest.
That's pretty much where I stand. However, I do not see MN with much bargaining power here. It's 100% that Love is gone no matter what they offer him.radsoxfan said:
Brickowski said:
Exactly. I don't think Love is as good as most people say he is (he is bad at almost everything that doesn't get counted on a stats sheet) but that's irrelevant in this case. Even if Love was on the level of KD or Lebron after dealing away our top assets we couldn't build a competitive team around him.
I've said this in the other threads, but I don't see Love coming here.
The Celtics probably have the ability to make the best offer, however that offer would have to be contingent on Love signing an extension.
I can't see Love agreeing to an extension as part of a trade except possibly to LA or GS where he seems to want to be.
There is certainly no incentive to extend to go to a Boston team that even with him isn't a title contender. If he can't force a trade where he wants to go his best strategy is waiting out the year if he is traded to see how he likes it then deciding.
The Celtics probably have the ability to make the best offer, however that offer would have to be contingent on Love signing an extension.
I can't see Love agreeing to an extension as part of a trade except possibly to LA or GS where he seems to want to be.
There is certainly no incentive to extend to go to a Boston team that even with him isn't a title contender. If he can't force a trade where he wants to go his best strategy is waiting out the year if he is traded to see how he likes it then deciding.
Golden State will offer Harrison Barnes and David Lee. That gives the Wolves some decent, NBA-ready talent with contracts through the next two seasons. Lee, in particular, might be attractive because while he doesn't have Love's game (especially his outside shooting), he can replace some of his scoring and rebounding production. Barnes is a guy who might be a future all-star or he may well be JAG in the Association.
As a C's fan, I would almost prefer that they wait for the draft and see what they can get. As we discussed here recently, there are questions about what sort of impact player Love really is - he doesn't appear to be the main guy. And the Celtics really need that alpha before they can make the leap back into contention. As someone who watches Golden State a lot, Love would fit nicely with what they are doing here and wouldn't have to be the man with the human torch leading the way. The only problem with Love is that he might have a heart attack on the floor when he realizes his point-guard can actually shoot the ball pretty damn good.
As a C's fan, I would almost prefer that they wait for the draft and see what they can get. As we discussed here recently, there are questions about what sort of impact player Love really is - he doesn't appear to be the main guy. And the Celtics really need that alpha before they can make the leap back into contention. As someone who watches Golden State a lot, Love would fit nicely with what they are doing here and wouldn't have to be the man with the human torch leading the way. The only problem with Love is that he might have a heart attack on the floor when he realizes his point-guard can actually shoot the ball pretty damn good.
Rudy Pemberton said:
Having competent management and ownership, alone, makes it a better situation than Minnesota
RedOctober3829 said:
I really hope DA is not thinking of trading a top 3 pick - or even #4, as I think I would rather roll the dice on Exum -- for Kevin Love.
Of course it's easy for me to say this as the person we draft turns out to be a bust, all I have to do is find something else to watch for a few years until the Celtics can put together a decent team.
If Love couldn't win with Rubio, Pekovic, et. al., why would you expect him to win with Rondo and Green? Oh, they might make the playoffs in the EC, but they'd be the same 40-45 win team in NBA limbo. Maybe they would get to the second round, but not beyond that. Love is no KG, and if that's shitting on him, so be it.
Love would also mean no lotto pick and no cap room in 2015. But hey. it's a quick fix and they would market the hell out of him and sell plenty of tickets.
No, I like him as a player. Great rebounder. As Radsoxfan says, if you paired Love with a good rim protector you could have a winning combination. But even assuming that he'd be willing to sign an extension in Boston, he's too expensive for what you get, especially if you have to give up Sullinger (who has similar skills) and a lotto pick in a very strong draft to get him. There are six guys (at least) in this draft who are potential all stars. It's not as strong a draft as some folks say, but it's pretty damn strong. Also, the players you draft are cost controlled for 5 years.
sorry - brain fart. I guess I should have said if Exum falls to us at 5. My point really being that I personally would prefer to roll the dice on a few players rather than get Love.Papelbon's Poutine said:
Brickowski said:
1) Steals aside, Rubio is a terrible NBA player.
2) I don't expect the Celtics to win with Rondo, Green, and Love.
2b) I also don't expect the Celtics to win with Rondo, Green, and Exum, Randle, Khalid El-Smart, or even Wiggins, Parker, or Embiid.
They have a lot of work to do. A five year window with one of the league's best players is a good place to start.
I wouldn't expect Love or KG in his prime to win with Rubio and Pek nor would I expect either to win with only Rondo and Green. Aside from LeBron or Durant being this player who could I wouldn't crucify Love for not doing so.Brickowski said:
Love doesn't have to be KG to be a very significant upgrade to our frontcourt and it's easy to see Asik coming over for virtually nothing to pair with him. Now you have NBA quality size, offense, and defense at your 4/5 rather than none of the 3 currently. This is something we could build off so I see this direction as an option.
The downside of course is that neither Love or Asik are locked in long term so naturally there would have to be behind the scenes conversations occurring that we are not privy to knowing.
Bottom line is that there is risk involved in making a move like this.......but there could be greater risk in NOT making these upgrades depending on other options that become available. Ainge is going to be rolling the dice on several moves coming up and there is a ton of risk regardless of the direction he chooses.
Devizier said:
I agree with just about all your points (man, Rubio is pretty disappointing) and I like Kevin Love. However, I agree with some of his detractors in that he doesn't seem to be an alpha. Maybe that isn't right and he simply hasn't been given the right cast around him (the TWolves bench was horrific this past season - I mean, the D-league might have better players than Minnesota had in their rotation). However if that is the right read, the C's are going to have a lot of resources spent/tied-up in a guy who won't be able to lead them to the next championship.
Boston's biggest strength in persuading Love to wear the green, is the fact that they are in the East. The league is so imbalanced right now that unless you think the NBA is going to make conferences irrelevant for playoff qualification/seeding, any FA has to look long and hard at the East. The playoffs in the West are a gauntlet for the immediate future, the East is one Lebron injury away from being a cakewalk to the Finals.
Rubio is not just disappointing, he makes Rondo look like Ray Allen.DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Love is clearly not on the Lebron/KD level, but I think he can be the best player on a championship team. However, that team must include a rim protector at the 5, not somebody like Pekovic. One upside of roster construction with Love, is that he makes it much easier to find that rim protector. Love's shooting means that you can have a center who brings nothing to table offensively because of the spacing Love will provide. Obviously, there are a lot more of those types of big men, than the two way variety.
No way Celtics would have the cap room to sign him with Love here, no way NY trades him to Boston.RedOctober3829 said:
Doubt Boston would be high on Melos' list anyway.
Kevin Love is a great player, but I wouldn't trade this years' lottery pick in a deal for him. I think Ainge gets a stud, no matter what number they pick at.
I'd rather have that guy for 5 years plus Bird rights, than Love at 1 year plus Bird rights.(Love signing an extension as part of a trade isn't realistic, even if he wants to be here. No economic sense for him.)
I would trade any lottery pick for Love unless it's Wiggins or Embiid. There will be no sure thing if we draw #5 or #6.
We will still have assets to make other complimentary moves, although I guess the biggest obstacle would be moving Gerald Wallace's contract.
We will still have assets to make other complimentary moves, although I guess the biggest obstacle would be moving Gerald Wallace's contract.
Let me point out that this thread is assuming the roughly 1% chance comes to fruition that Love ok's Boston as a trade destination. Realistically we aren't likely an option but it's a fun discussion anyway.
There's the window of opportunity he knocks up a stripper Paul George-style whose parents live in Dorchester.Devizier said:
Devizier said:
I don't mean on this board, but the media and fans in general. Most people look at the rebounds and points and think he is a top 10 player.
If we could sign Kevin Love without having to trade away our valuable draft picks I wouldn't object. I just don't think he is capable of carrying a team by himself.
Devizier said:
The difference is that a draft pick is cost controlled for his first contract and is still a restricted free agent when his deal is up. The window will be open a lot longer if you build through the draft.
Words cannot possibly portray how unattractive an offer that really is. What's even funnier is the Knicks reportedly believing how Minnesota is a destination option for top tier free agents. It's somewhere between Boston and Vancouver.MakMan44 said:
Yeah, that Knicks offer would go over really well with the T-Wolves fanbase. I think I heard just heard MakMan44 cheering for this proposed trade. Or maybe it was wailing in agony. Either way...
MakMan44 said:
Top tier free agents of course! Minnesota is set to become the new Miami. Soon you'll be seeing ESPN specials with Marc Gasol saying he has decided to take his talents to St. Paul.
RedOctober3829 said:
Rondo doesn't make much sense for Minnesota. They already have Rubio, and Rondo only has 1 year left on his deal and will almost certainly not resign there.
Plus the Celtics would have Sullinger/Olynyk/Love clogging up the front court, even if Minnesota wanted Rondo as the centerpiece. For both teams, Sullinger seems like the NBA player that should be traded (unless Flip Saunders loves Olynyk for some reason)
My basic assumptions: K-Love is a great player in this league and can win a championship if pairing him with a couple other great players and correctly constructing the roster around him - if that means rim protector at the 5, so be it. Getting the stars to come here at the same time is the hard part. Filling in the roster around them is the easy part. As an aside, I don't think the Wolves underperformed at all this year, they were basically a .500 team in a brutal Western conference, and looking at the rest of the roster, I think they would have been right there with the Celtics record-wise without him.
I look at this deal 2 ways - with & without the assurance K-Love will sign an extension here.
1) if there's no assurance, then bringing K-Love here immediately starts the clock ticking for 1 year to bring other star(s) here so he will sign an extension. But, that option to get back to contention is worth something. So, I'd give up Sullinger / Olynyk (duplicate his skills & will never be as good as him) + a 1st (unless it's top-3), and whatever salaries to match. That leaves us with Rondo + Love (open question whether Rondo is still a star or whether he's just an average starting point at this point) and lots of extra 1sts and we have one year to get it together to bring in other star(s) and get them to sign extensions. Worst case: we gave up a couple assets for a K-Love rental, but still have lots of assets & extra 1sts.
2) if he would sign an extension here, then he's worth a lot more b/c don't have as much urgency to bring in other stars. I'd be willing to give up any 3 assets (or a top-3 pick straight up for him). We'd still have Rondo + plenty of other assets to try to bring in other good players, and with just K-Love as (potentially) our only above-average NBA starter, we might still be in the lottery in 2015.
I look at this deal 2 ways - with & without the assurance K-Love will sign an extension here.
1) if there's no assurance, then bringing K-Love here immediately starts the clock ticking for 1 year to bring other star(s) here so he will sign an extension. But, that option to get back to contention is worth something. So, I'd give up Sullinger / Olynyk (duplicate his skills & will never be as good as him) + a 1st (unless it's top-3), and whatever salaries to match. That leaves us with Rondo + Love (open question whether Rondo is still a star or whether he's just an average starting point at this point) and lots of extra 1sts and we have one year to get it together to bring in other star(s) and get them to sign extensions. Worst case: we gave up a couple assets for a K-Love rental, but still have lots of assets & extra 1sts.
2) if he would sign an extension here, then he's worth a lot more b/c don't have as much urgency to bring in other stars. I'd be willing to give up any 3 assets (or a top-3 pick straight up for him). We'd still have Rondo + plenty of other assets to try to bring in other good players, and with just K-Love as (potentially) our only above-average NBA starter, we might still be in the lottery in 2015.
DrewDawg said:
I'm also not sure where Gordon Hayward came from. I guess it's conceivable the Celtics will offer him, but unless you terribly overpay Utah will just match.
- Status