Celtics trade Rondo to Dallas

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Blah blah blah.  You resort to ad hominum attacks instead of responding to the substance of what I have posted.  Zenter, I'll propose this bet to you and Grin&MartyBarret.  if the Celtics don't have a better record this year without Rondo than they had with him, I'll stop posting here fore a year.   If they do, shut the fuck up.

No reading comprehension and annoying. As I said earlier, I dont even disagree with your opinions on Rondo. You just suck as a poster. Same things over and over. Hell, go back and look and I'm one of the very first people here questioning Rondo's value. You'd know that if you ever actually participated in a conversation instead of using every thread as an opportunity to push the 3 opinions you hold.

 

[wutang112878]

 
It is a clear majority opinion around here that "loyalty" and "rooting for the guys who have been around" are concepts of no value in the 21st century sports.
So might as well have fun playing General Manager and imagining how well getting "assets" will work out.
 
Which means I am looking forward to a Wizards/Mavs final!
 
(And isn't it a smart thing we got rid of Pierce before he fell apart!)

 
Lets put loyalty aside for a second and just consider the 'keep it all together' path. 
 
We've seen a good portion of Ainge's 'acquire assets' stage of this rebuild and its the boards general belief that he has a ton of draft assets that set this team up very nicely for the future.  The alternative was to keep it all together so lets consider that path.  If we had an aging KG, PP, Perk & Rondo who now make a combined $40M ($12M, $5M, $10M & $13M respectively) plus Bradley at $8M plus (assuming all minimum contracts) another $7M in filling out the rest of the roster we are at $55M in salary.  We have guys who have fallen off a cliff in production (KG, PP & Perk).  Then the question becomes how do we make this team better and contend for a title or build to the future?  While we'd have some flexibility under the cap do you really think a premier free agent who we could truly build around would want to come here? 
 
Whats your alternative plan that makes for a better future than what Danny did??  If you can give specifics for a realistic alternative that is comparable then you have a valid point.  But I'm just not seeing the road where we keep it all together and we keep this team 'interesting' instead what I think we'd see is what happened to the Nets who have a core of guys who have played their best basketball (Joe Johnson, Deron Williams, KG & Lopez) and are winning less games every year going from 49 to 44 and they are now on pace for 34.  At which point we are looking at a team trending in the wrong direction and would still be faced with a serious rebuild anyway.  I dont see how this path keeps us from being in the same exact position we are in right now but without all the 'assets' that I know you dont see much value in.

 

[richgedman'sghost]

Well, they weren't getting any playoff experience with Rondo.  He's the Jay Cutler of the NBA.

Rondo has a ring..the only ring Cutler has is his wedding ring..

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

[standing_o]

Bye bye Brick. Win or not, you won't be around to collect.

[/standing_o]

 

[richgedman'sghost]

Bye bye Brick. Win or not, you won't be around to collect.

Thank you  Mr. Sprowl...

 

[zenter]

When I'm not hanging onto the bumper of the Dubs bus for dear life, anyway.

You've got the Mavs now. (Aside, I saved a couple slots in my League Pass. I now know who one of them belongs to.)

Five first round picks in the next two years and extras in 2017 and 2018. There's a certain amount of "you better have your head examined" if you'd rather watch a couple of beloved players fail to do anything at the very end of their careers when this is the other alternative.

Yeah, some. That said, watching your favorite players play on your favorite team is always nice. Not good for business or future fortune, but nice.

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

Let me just say that I think the Brick ban is a mistake.  The Port Cellar isn't exactly brimming with activity, especially in the offseason, and he was often a catalyst for sparking discussions.  Yes, sometimes there was repetition, but without it there's nothing.  He clearly watched a lot of basketball, and knew a lot about obscure Europeans and late-round draftees.  Just my .02, and yes, I realize nobody cares. 

 

[DJnVa]

Let me just say that I think the Brick ban is a mistake.  The Port Cellar isn't exactly brimming with activity, especially in the offseason, and he was often a catalyst for sparking discussions.  Yes, sometimes there was repetition, but without it there's nothing.  He clearly watched a lot of basketball, and knew a lot about obscure Europeans and late-round draftees.  Just my .02, and yes, I realize nobody cares. 

 

There's a chance that other posters my chime in more now that there's not someone trying to run roughshod over everything.

 

[RedOctober3829]

BEST POST EVER, SPROWL.  JUST RETIRE.  YOU WON'T DO BETTER.
 
I am so thankful.

#DropTheMic

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Let me just say that I think the Brick ban is a mistake.  The Port Cellar isn't exactly brimming with activity, especially in the offseason, and he was often a catalyst for sparking discussions.  Yes, sometimes there was repetition, but without it there's nothing.  He clearly watched a lot of basketball, and knew a lot about obscure Europeans and late-round draftees.  Just my .02, and yes, I realize nobody cares. 

 
Bring it to backwash, this thread is for the Rondo trade.

 

[Silent Chief]

Let me just say that I think the Brick ban is a mistake.  The Port Cellar isn't exactly brimming with activity, especially in the offseason, and he was often a catalyst for sparking discussions.  Yes, sometimes there was repetition, but without it there's nothing.  He clearly watched a lot of basketball, and knew a lot about obscure Europeans and late-round draftees.  Just my .02, and yes, I realize nobody cares. 

 
Well I agree with ya Johnny... he isn't so bad.  A cooling off period may be better then an outright ban. Just my .02 as well.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Let me just say that I think the Brick ban is a mistake.  The Port Cellar isn't exactly brimming with activity, especially in the offseason, and he was often a catalyst for sparking discussions.  Yes, sometimes there was repetition, but without it there's nothing.  He clearly watched a lot of basketball, and knew a lot about obscure Europeans and late-round draftees.  Just my .02, and yes, I realize nobody cares. 

 
I can only speak for myself here, but Brick has singlehandledly driven me away from this forum. There was a time when I was one of the more active NBA posters on SoSH, but I got very, very sick of Brick's garbage polluting every single thread here. He had no idea how to rationally argue or conduct himself in a decent manner, had been warned a dozen times, and I think this is completely necessary. Without his repetitive garbage I suspect there will be an uptick in posts, and I am absolutely certain that the quality of the discussions will improve. I can link you to a dozen threads in which an interesting, measured discussion was derailed by Brickowski's refusal drop points that nobody was even disagreeing with. He moved the goalposts consistently, ignored the content of responses to him, and treated every single post as if the whole world disagreed with him and he was some sort of prophet speaking truth to power. I can count on one hand the number of people here seriously defending Rondo's on court contributions over the last two seasons, and yet Brick's ultimate demise came because he couldn't separate requests for him to stop posting the same thing over and over again from disagreement. I straight up told him I didn't disagree with his stance on Rondo, and his very next post was a bet insisting that I did. The guy dragged this place down, his name came up once every couple of months in backwash, and this was a long time coming.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

So...how about that Rondo trade?

 

[nighthob]

Boston generated a huge trade exception to use draft night this year and put together some assets for a deadline deal.

 

[wibi]

Well I agree with ya Johnny... he isn't so bad.  A cooling off period may be better then an outright ban. Just my .02 as well.

"Isnt so bad" is not what SoSH should be striving for from a poster with 2500+ posts ...
 
EDIT:  I have no clue what my auto correct did there ...

 

[Devizier]

So...how about that Rondo trade?

 
Wondering how comfortable the Mavericks are handing off key backup minutes to Greg Smith and Charlie Villain. Must be another trade in the works for them.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

 
Wondering how comfortable the Mavericks are handing off key backup minutes to Greg Smith and Charlie Villain. Must be another trade in the works for them.

Rumor is they 're signing Jermaine O'Neal.

Bigger question is how willing they are to hand off primary ball handling responsibilities from Monta to Rondo.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Bye bye Brick. Win or not, you won't be around to collect.

 
It's a Christmas Miracle, everyone!

 

[CaptainLaddie]

 
I can only speak for myself here, but Brick has singlehandledly driven me away from this forum. There was a time when I was one of the more active NBA posters on SoSH, but I got very, very sick of Brick's garbage polluting every single thread here. He had no idea how to rationally argue or conduct himself in a decent manner, had been warned a dozen times, and I think this is completely necessary. Without his repetitive garbage I suspect there will be an uptick in posts, and I am absolutely certain that the quality of the discussions will improve. I can link you to a dozen threads in which an interesting, measured discussion was derailed by Brickowski's refusal drop points that nobody was even disagreeing with. He moved the goalposts consistently, ignored the content of responses to him, and treated every single post as if the whole world disagreed with him and he was some sort of prophet speaking truth to power. I can count on one hand the number of people here seriously defending Rondo's on court contributions over the last two seasons, and yet Brick's ultimate demise came because he couldn't separate requests for him to stop posting the same thing over and over again from disagreement. I straight up told him I didn't disagree with his stance on Rondo, and his very next post was a bet insisting that I did. The guy dragged this place down, his name came up once every couple of months in backwash, and this was a long time coming.

 
I wish I could make love to this post.
 

 

[DavidTai]

Can we just start a "Thank you, Sprowl" thread (and I am -so- in agreement with Barret there about why it had to be done)?
 
 
Wandering back on topic:
 
I like Rajon Rondo. He's not a -Superstar-... but then again, I felt like his potential to be one got drastically altered when Wade pulled that dirty play on him in the playoffs.
 
Irrational, maybe, but Rondo never seemed quite the same again after that.
 
Not a fan of what we got for him, and Dallas seems like they're going to be much better. I just don't know enough about this year's draft pool or the next few years to see if it's worth compiling -that- many draft picks.

 

[Fishy1]

Boston generated a huge trade exception to use draft night this year and put together some assets for a deadline deal.

 
I'm with you on this. This deal is as much about giving Danny more flexibility as it is any asset we might have gotten directly. What's more, if Dirk falls off a cliff, whether literal or figurative, that draft pick could turn into a useful player. And maybe Brandan Wright or Crowder is is a nice sweetener to a Jeff Green deal, or maybe they just catch lobs for half a season until their contracts expire. The indeterminacy of the whole thing is enormously frustrating, of course: we need to lose a lot of games to do well in the lottery, and even then nothing is guaranteed. But this certainly expands Ainge's ability to make a splash.
 
On to Green. There's got to be some teams looking for a wing who can score and look bad while doing it.
 
EDIT: Also, here's a summary of 'where the Celtics go from here' if you're brain has as much trouble keeping information as mine.

 

[TomRicardo]

No reading comprehension and annoying. As I said earlier, I dont even disagree with your opinions on Rondo. You just suck as a poster. Same things over and over. Hell, go back and look and I'm one of the very first people here questioning Rondo's value. You'd know that if you ever actually participated in a conversation instead of using every thread as an opportunity to push the 3 opinions you hold.

 
Correction he sucked as a poster.  Now he is breaking light bulbs in alley behind Best Buy with Faverani
 
I think the Celtics should have stuck around to see the Knicks blink in a moment of blind panic but this wasn't a terrible haul for Rondo.

 

[ALiveH]

+1 on the Sprowl love. 
 
most likely draft pick outcomes:
2015 - 2 1sts (BOS & LAC - likely to be lottery & mid-late 1st), two high 2nds (BOS & PHI)
2016 - 4 1sts (BOS, Brookly, CLE, DAL); 4 2nds (MIA, PHI, CLE, DAL)
2017 - 1 1st (right to swap with Brook for BOS' 2nd); 1 2nd (CLE & keep BOS if don't swap with Brook)
2018 - 2 1sts (BOS & Brook), 1 2nd (BOS)
 
I'm concerned that there will be pressure to trade & package the 8 picks coming next year which could compromise Ainge's negotiating leverage.  It would sort of make sense for him to try to pull a BB & swap into a better pick in a future year.
 
Edit - fixed.  thx nighthob.

 

[nighthob]

I think you mean Boston & Brooklyn in '18.

 

[ifmanis5]

GMB had a great post. Even when he made some good points that I agreed with, it was tough to stomach all the hatred since he would always reject his prior accomplishments. Also, he made everything about Rondo to the point of diminishing returns. It hurt the forum. Walter Sobchak :: Vietnam as Brick :: Rondo.

 

[Kliq]

I can't hate the trade, because something that I think is being lost here is how few options Danny had, which lowered Rondo's trade value. Has Rondo been the same player for the last two seasons? No, but it doesn't help that about 75% of NBA teams are content with their current PG situation. The only real contending team that felt like they needed an upgrade at PG was Dallas, so when there is only one market for a player, yeah, his trade value is going to decrease. Our only other options were banking on the Knicks or LA doing something stupid, and I understand (LOL Knicks) Danny didn't want to get left with nothing. All things considered, I'm okay with the deal. It sucks that we didn't get a great haul, but when you think about the other options, I can't really complain.
 
My .02 cents about Brick is that he really, really liked watching basketball and he did understand some of the finer points of the game, but he lacked a certain amount of social skill that is required to be a quality poster. I know he brought up the same things in every thread, but he isn't the only one guilty of that, this whole forum has basically turned into one giant Rondo thread. What pissed me off about Brick was that occasionally he would make these wild, ridiculous statements and refuse to backtrack on them no matter how much evidence was thrown in his direction. The Cutler/Rondo comparison is a perfect example, as is his assumption that Phil Pressey was a better PG for the Celtics than Rondo was. Him running roughshot over everyone in a thread with his wacky ideas was a serious detriment to the Port Cellar and I'm glad he is gone.

 

[zenter]

So...how about that Rondo trade?

 
There was a trade?
 
I know he's a deeply flawed player, but I'm still not the most excited about the relatively small pick haul the Celts came away with - was hoping for more. I guess I need to recalibrate. Most of all, though, it's very intriguing in terms of the next move.
 
Celts now have at most ~$45M committed to 2015-16, with an expected cap of ~63M.... IOW, more than enough to throw down a competitive offer sheet for Kawhi Leonard or make a nice max offer to Marc Gasol. And this is before needing to figure out how to deal Wallace, Green, and Bass.

 

[Jeff Van GULLY]

I feel better about the deal now that there is a chance (albeit small) that they can get a decent lottery pick out of this in 2016 and it's clear this deal is about the trade exception and the pick.
 
I could see Green and Nelson getting dealt to New Orleans in February if Green isn't dealt earlier.  Wouldn't be surprised to see Wright gone then as well.

 

[ifmanis5]

It'd be helpful if Smart could get healthy and stay that way for the rest of the season. The way has been cleared for him.

 

[RG33]

Really good writeup by Zach Lowe about the Rondo trade. He is very unimpressed with Rondo.

"Rondo has coughed up the ball on 32 percent of the pick-and-rolls he has finished this season, the worst rate among all 85 players who have run at least 50 such plays, per Synergy Sports. Dead stinking last."

"his presence on the floor has made no consistent positive difference over the last three years for the shooting marks, per NBA.com, of Boston’s other core players — Jared Sullinger, Kelly Olynyk, Jeff Green, Avery Bradley."

"There is very little evidence beyond inflated assist totals that the present-day version of Rondo is a helpful player — on either end."

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/rajon-rondo-trade-dallas-mavericks/

 

[ALiveH]

You're cherry-picking.
 
Lowe wrote the article in two parts - The Case for  the Trade and The Case Against the Trade.  All your Lowe quotes are from the former.  In the latter he makes the case Rondo is a better player than Nelson & Dallas has a shot at getting "playoff Rondo" that might put them over the top.

 

[wutang112878]

Boston generated a huge trade exception to use draft night this year and put together some assets for a deadline deal.

 
The exemption is obviously a good thing but havent we had sizable exceptions in the past and not really done much with them?  I believe we've used a couple exceptions in the Danny era but I honestly cant think of a real notable deal that the helped facilitate.  As an example, the Nets trade got us a $10M exception and I dont believe we accomplished much with that. 
 
With regards to this exception we have the $7M Bass expiring and the $8.5M Thorton expiring which would be more than enough to facilitate a big trade anyway.  Once free agency begins we have substantial cap room and the exception is almost useless. 

 

[RG33]

You're cherry-picking.
 
Lowe wrote the article in two parts - The Case for  the Trade and The Case Against the Trade.  All your Lowe quotes are from the former.  In the latter he makes the case Rondo is a better player than Nelson & Dallas has a shot at getting "playoff Rondo" that might put them over the top.

I wasn't pushing any agenda, I was surprised by his very negative slant on Rondo. I thought the statistics he quoted were more pertinent than saying that the Mavs were hoping to get "playoff Rondo". I did link to the article after all.

 

[zenter]

The exemption is obviously a good thing but havent we had sizable exceptions in the past and not really done much with them?  I believe we've used a couple exceptions in the Danny era but I honestly cant think of a real notable deal that the helped facilitate.  As an example, the Nets trade got us a $10M exception and I dont believe we accomplished much with that. 
 
With regards to this exception we have the $7M Bass expiring and the $8.5M Thorton expiring which would be more than enough to facilitate a big trade anyway.  Once free agency begins we have substantial cap room and the exception is almost useless. 

I think you overstate.

1) You don't think Thornton and Zeller constitute a good return for a 10M exception?
2) Was there something better available?
3) Is there any real history of exceptions in the league to make a claim?
4) Have the Celtics done badly with exceptions? Have they or others had the opportunity to do better?
5) Have they been good enough for an exception to be if any real championship value?

Finally, recall that the exception cannot be combined, so Bass and Thornton would need to be dealt in separate/separable deals. Wasn't sure from what you wrote if you meant combining.

 

[nighthob]

The exemption is obviously a good thing but havent we had sizable exceptions in the past and not really done much with them?  I believe we've used a couple exceptions in the Danny era but I honestly cant think of a real notable deal that the helped facilitate.  As an example, the Nets trade got us a $10M exception and I dont believe we accomplished much with that. 
 
With regards to this exception we have the $7M Bass expiring and the $8.5M Thorton expiring which would be more than enough to facilitate a big trade anyway.  Once free agency begins we have substantial cap room and the exception is almost useless.

Actually they did use the Pierce TPE to facilitate the preseason trade that netted them the Cleveland #1 (as well as Zeller and Thornton). Being able to absorb a salary outright is an advantage when dealing with teams looking to clear cap space for summer signings or when they're looking to create an exception for their own evil purposes. The expiring deals and Brandan Wright are certainly available for a major deadline move.

 

[Sprowl]

Thinking back to Ainge's tenacious and ultimately successful pursuit of Garnett, Ainge likes to have a mix of assets at his disposal: promising young players (AJefferson), financial inducements (LaFraentz trade exception), expiring contracts (Ratliff) and draft picks, of which Ainge has a valise-load.

Are there any other asset categories he has to deploy?

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Thinking back to Ainge's tenacious and ultimately successful pursuit of Garnett, Ainge likes to have a mix of assets at his disposal: promising young players (AJefferson), financial inducements (LaFraentz trade exception), expiring contracts (Ratliff) and draft picks, of which Ainge has a valise-load.

Are there any other asset categories he has to deploy?

Yes. Franchise player. That's the big difference between this rebuild and the last one.

 

[wutang112878]

I think you overstate.

1) You don't think Thornton and Zeller constitute a good return for a 10M exception?
2) Was there something better available?
3) Is there any real history of exceptions in the league to make a claim?
4) Have the Celtics done badly with exceptions? Have they or others had the opportunity to do better?
5) Have they been good enough for an exception to be if any real championship value?

Finally, recall that the exception cannot be combined, so Bass and Thornton would need to be dealt in separate/separable deals. Wasn't sure from what you wrote if you meant combining.

 
I'm wasnt saying the trade is bad at all, yes I think its probably about the max return we could have got.  To my knowledge (when I posted that) exceptions had really just been used to grease the skids of a trade which is certainly helpful but the player assets are really the meat and potatoes of any trade.  My only assertion was that the exception itself wasnt a tremendous asset but certainly not useless. 
 
My point with Bass and Thorton is that if you need to match salary and the team sending the salary out wont accept a long-term contract in return, ala Gerald Wallace, then having those expiring deals is almost as good as the exception.  While your trade partner would have to pay their salaries for the remainder of the year, we'd still have $15M of palatable matching salary filler.  Whereas if you are a team who is over the cap, with no expirings and your only high $ deals are long-term ones that no one wants to touch then the exception has much more trade value because that team really needs some help greasing the skids.
 
 

Actually they did use the Pierce TPE to facilitate the preseason trade that netted them the Cleveland #1 (as well as Zeller and Thornton). Being able to absorb a salary outright is an advantage when dealing with teams looking to clear cap space for summer signings or when they're looking to create an exception for their own evil purposes. The expiring deals and Brandan Wright are certainly available for a major deadline move.

 
And then....  Me -1  Nighthob +1
 
This example completely blows my point out of the water.  I had a feeling you could reach into the memory banks and pull one out for me.  Danny truly turned that exception into something pretty significant for the franchise. 

 

[wutang112878]

Thinking back to Ainge's tenacious and ultimately successful pursuit of Garnett, Ainge likes to have a mix of assets at his disposal: promising young players (AJefferson), financial inducements (LaFraentz trade exception), expiring contracts (Ratliff) and draft picks, of which Ainge has a valise-load.

Are there any other asset categories he has to deploy?

 
Not a true asset category but it affects the assets: Danny's willingness to take risks and make a multitude of complex trades.  I dont think anyone averages more trades a year than Danny, and he has been willing to make some huge moves.  At the time trading Antoine, who at the time was really the face of the franchise, was a big risk.  Then he took him back.  Then he traded a top 5-7 pick, I believe, for basically Sebastian Telfair.  Then he takes an incredibly young roster and flips a bunch of assets to get KG & Ray which wasnt risky but impressive.  Eventually he was willing to blow it up and trade KG & PP which took a lot of guts too.  That bold risk taking is something I love about Ainge and its why all these assets in his hands should be looked up differently than if they were in the hands of a more conservative GM.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Rondo showed up an hour late for his own press conference in Dallas and Brad takes not so subtle dig in his post-game presser, "We moved the ball VERY well and we SCORED in the 2nd half."

And so it begins....

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Rondo return to Boston is Jan 2nd. We might see "National TV on steroids" Rondo in that one.

This will actually be a very fun game to watch regardless of outcome. Most anticipated game of the year for sure.

 

[crystalline]

Seeing Rondo yesterday at a Mavs press conference is still a little depressing for me.
 
I'd be happy if he turns it around in Dallas and becomes a top PG.  I'd have been happier if he did it for the Celtics.
 
These are the reasons why we should appreciate having Pierce who was good when young, fought through a rebuild, and came out on top.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

One potential added benefit to the trade is that it could help the Mavs stay ahead of the Clippers. Every little draft slot counts!

 

[Eddie Jurak]

My gut feeling is that he fits in well in Dallas as he returns to giving a shit.

At the same time, Boston won't really miss him all that much.

 

[Koufax]

At the press conference in Dallas, Rondo was asked why he chose Dallas.  Mark Cuban broke into a big smile.  After a pause, Rondo said that it wasn't his choice to make, or something to that effect.  Which raises the question:  Was Rondo an active participant in the process?  Did Danny consult with him as to where he'd like to end up?  If so, when did this conversation start?   Last summer?  Last week?  This is probably unknowable, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was a collaborative process, one in which Danny assured Rondo that he'd be traded to a good team and Rondo assured Danny that he'd be a good soldier in the meantime.  I do think that Rondo was a good soldier this year.  He had accumulated a lot of rust leading to shaky play at the outset, but his attitude never seemed to be a problem.

 

[luckiestman]

I think Rondo is quoted somewhere saying he would sign an extension with Dallas. I'll look for it, but I don't remember which story had that
 
edit:  http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2014/12/18/7415555/rajon-rondo-open-to-signing-extension-with-dallas-houston

 

[luckiestman]

Im really looking forward to a Mavs/Clips playoff series and the Doc/Rondo drama and if the Mavs sign Jermaine O'neal, that will make it even better

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I think Rondo is quoted somewhere saying he would sign an extension with Dallas. I'll look for it, but I don't remember which story had that
 
edit:  http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2014/12/18/7415555/rajon-rondo-open-to-signing-extension-with-dallas-houston

 
Huh, that's interesting if it's actually an extension. Because that means he's not going to get anywhere near the max. On the other hand, if he just said he's willing to re-signing in Dallas, that's different. I doubt it's even a certainty that they'll offer him that option yet. 

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Interesting quick Rondo piece from Neil Paine at 538:
 
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/celtic-or-maverick-rajon-rondo-remains-a-mystery/ 
 
Many number-focused fans tend to gravitate to what's easy to measure and forget there's a lot else going on; thought this was a good brief description of why it's more complicated than that...and why Rondo is a great example of why 'unique skillsets make for messy analytics' at this point in the evolution of analytics.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Interesting quick Rondo piece from Neil Paine at 538:
 
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/celtic-or-maverick-rajon-rondo-remains-a-mystery/
 
Many number-focused fans tend to gravitate to what's easy to measure and forget there's a lot else going on; thought this was a good brief description of why it's more complicated than that...and why Rondo is a great example of why 'unique skillsets make for messy analytics' at this point in the evolution of analytics.

 
The Goldsberry piece referenced there felt off to me. There's an insistence that Rondo "amplifies the goodness around him" but no attempt to illustrate that, which you think wouldn't be all that difficult to do. That's why Rondo is such an interesting and polarizing player; his reputation is as an excellent floor general and pure point guard, and traditional basketball thinking assumes that pure point guardery make one's teammates better. But for about 3 years now, the numbers don't bear that out in Rondo's case. And yet, even a guy like Goldsberry makes that idea the thesis of his argument in favor of Rondo. You'd think it wouldn't be all that difficult to find examples of players who Rondo truly made better if that were the case, right?