Celtics trade Rondo to Dallas

Koufax

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Over a beer, I think they'd agree with you.  They were trying to be kind by not dissing him too much.  They took pains to describe just how good he had once been. 
 
I thought it was interesting that this re-evaluation of Rondo was taking place on a national stage.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Koufax said:
I thought it was interesting that this re-evaluation of Rondo was taking place on a national stage.
No kidding. It went from Celtic message boards 3 years ago to being THE topic on national broadcasts.
 

Statman

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BigSoxFan said:
Rondo this year:

3pt: 21-66 (.318)
FT: 19-61 (.311)

The "new" Rondo is simply a mediocre player.
 
Not to add to the pile on, but....
 
"Number of FT's Isaiah Thomas has made in Boston: 23 (3 games). Number of FT's Rajon Rondo has made all season: 19 (47 games)." - @CelticsHub
 
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Grin&MartyBarret said:
 
Yeah, but they're dumb. The number should be substantially higher, I think. Westbrook, Curry, Irving, Paul, Conley, Lillard, Lowry, Knight, Wall, Dragic, Bledsoe, Teague, Thomas, Lawson, Walker, and Parker seem like pretty obvious choices. That's 17. Rondo's in the next tier with guys like Rose, Jennings, Reggie Jackson, Deron Williams, MCW, Schroeder, and Elfrid Peyton. In some cases, in that tier, you might opt for potential over Rondo and in others you might opt for the guys who have been hamstrung by injury, but none of those guys seem like really clear cut choices to me. Either way, I don't think he's a top 15 PG anymore and could very well be pushed out of the top 20 if a couple of guys get/stay healthy and some young players pan out. 
You're seriously taking Bledsoe, Dragic (the good one I suppose), Walker, Knight, Lawson, Conley over Rose? Just how heavily are you discounting health?
 
In any case, Dallas looks like they lost the trade as it seems he won't be there already. Almost wish we traded back for him at the deadline for garbage back and went with a 4 PG offense surrounding Zeller. Would have been fun.
 
I hope we're able to use all our "garbage assets" including every single expiring K.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Dan to Theo to Ben said:
You're seriously taking Bledsoe, Dragic (the good one I suppose), Walker, Knight, Lawson, Conley over Rose? Just how heavily are you discounting health?
 
In any case, Dallas looks like they lost the trade as it seems he won't be there already. Almost wish we traded back for him at the deadline for garbage back and went with a 4 PG offense surrounding Zeller. Would have been fun.
 
I hope we're able to use all our "garbage assets" including every single expiring K.
 
At this point, Rose just isn't Rose and if I'm a GM I'm not risking it. Walker is the only one of that group that's even a question for me. 
 

Ed Hillel

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If you are Chicago would you trade Rose for Rondo straight up?
 
It wouldn't work because of the salaries, but if they could get out of Rose's contract the next couple years for an expiring contract, Chicago would do it in a heartbeat.
 

The Social Chair

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http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas-mavericks/post/_/id/4705065/rajon-rondo-is-good-at-math-bad-at-people
 

It's May 2011, and Boston is trailing Miami two games to none during its second-round playoff series. On the best of days, Celtics coach Doc Rivers rides Rajon Rondo hard, pushing his stubborn point guard as only a former stubborn point guard can. But this day is different. Doc is more relentless, Rondo more seething. "He was just pushing and he was just pushing and he was just pushing," Garnett recalls. Rondo glances across the room at Shaquille O'Neal and Jermaine O'Neal. "They saw me bubbling," Rondo remembers. "They were trying to calm me down. It was too late."
 
Without warning, Rondo snatches his water bottle and hurls it, full force, at the television monitor, the one airing the game footage that's being used to critique him. The 50-inch flat-screen, mounted on a cart in the center of the room, shatters. "When he blew the TV up, it was about to go in another direction -- like, the whole thing," Garnett says, his voice rising. Rivers, fed up, gives Garnett an order: "I want Rondo out." Garnett obliges. "He kicked the door off the hinges," Garnett says. "I'll never forget: I had to pick him up and carry him out because it was going like that, and the locker room was suuuper tense. Just super tense."
 
 
 

Nick Kaufman

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The two takeaways I had from this article are one, that TV Rondo is really Rondo who isn't bored. I am not sure if this bad year is due to boredom or just struggling to recover from an injury. But it ll be interesting how he performs in the playoffs. The second takeaway is that Rondo could become a great coach if he just learned to interact with people better. Barring that, perhaps he could be a great assistant coach.
 

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Bernie Carbohydrate

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It is an excellent article, but I wish the current Rondo Engima had been explored a little more.  The examples of his intelligence, attention to detail, competitiveness...those were drawn from the Big Three Celtics.  Is the thesis that when the Celtics started sucking he lost interest?  If so it doesn't account for the ways he's competitive even when the stakes are low---playing poker with the strength coach, for example
 
When there are stakes, he's at his best, torching LeBron James and the Cavaliers for 29 points, 13 assists and 18 rebounds in the 2010 playoffs; dropping 44, 10 and 8 on the Heat in the 2012 playoffs; lighting up Jeremy Lin during the peak of Linsanity for 18, 20 and 17. Big when it matters, bored when it doesn't, he is, in all things, an enigma, an equation unto himself.
 
 
If this is true, then the trade to the Mavs should have reactivated 2008-2011 Rondo--he moved to a contender, and he was expected to be a key piece of their playoff run.  So why couldn't he flick the switch, and turn into the guy who pumped out triple-doubles and defended guys like his life depended on it?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Bernie Carbohydrate said:
It is an excellent article, but I wish the current Rondo Engima had been explored a little more.  The examples of his intelligence, attention to detail, competitiveness...those were drawn from the Big Three Celtics.  Is the thesis that when the Celtics started sucking he lost interest?  If so it doesn't account for the ways he's competitive even when the stakes are low---playing poker with the strength coach, for example
 
Yeah, it would have been nice if they explored some of his contradictions - like why didn't he improve his form on his jump shot when he has such insight; what does it take for him not to be bored; did he ever wonder if he could have had a better outlet than basketball?
 
Rondo is a fascinating person and a joy to watch; I wish someone would go more in depth on him
 
BTW, I don't know if this was a companion piece or what, but there's another article that discusses how Rajon started to look up to Garnett here:  http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12634937/kevin-garnett-helped-rajon-rondo-unleash-fire.  Snippet:
 


"When I came in, he was super quiet," Garnett recalled. "He was just super isolated. He wouldn't do a lot of things with guys. He wouldn't necessarily speak."
 
Garnett did see Rondo's hunger to win, especially in practices, where he said Rondo refused to let his man score, much less touch the ball.
"Rondo's competitiveness is relentless," Garnett said. "I understood that he wanted to demolish."
 
Rondo took a little something from all the Celtics veterans, Garnett said, and from Garnett came something that made Rondo even more icy toward the opposition.
 
"Once I filled him with, 'Hey man, you don't need any gratification from any peers. If you bust they ass, you gain that respect from them.' That's exactly what happened," Garnett said.
 
Like Garnett, Rondo snarled at his teammates if they wore sneakers promoting big-name players the Celtics were facing that night: Kobe's, KD's, etc.
Rondo was also quick to engage in scuffles in games, if that meant bumping a referee or throwing an elbow into someone's jaw, as he did to Lance Stephenson earlier this season.
 
But it went beyond that.
 
Rondo would break up high-five attempts between opposing players, sneak into their on-court huddles, and when he'd fall, he'd refuse a helping hand if it were attached to someone not in Celtics green. Boston's Jared Sullinger said Rondo even chewed out his teammates at halftime when one shook hands with an opponent during the first half.
 

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wade boggs chicken dinner said:
 
- like why didn't he improve his form on his jump shot when he has such insight; 
 
Couldn't agree with this more.  It never came up in the piece and it was the first thing that came to mind for me.  Made the whole story beyond aggravating.  Loved Rondo when he was here, but am glad I no longer have to care about his shortcomings and how it affects my team.  Sports is supposed to be fun and at some point he made it not.
 

simplyeric

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Not that he's having an amazing game so far today, but he is fun to watch. It's a shame that he could make the game so fun for us (me, at least) while being (reportedly) such a pain in the ass.
 

Bleedred

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He's sulked his way out of tens of millions of dollars.  No way he gets a max deal....at least for 5+ years.  At his best, he was arguably one of the top 3 PGS in the NBA.  But the indifference/petulance he's shown over the last 2-3 years (admittedly the injury may have zapped some of his confidence) has made him just another good player who had stretches, some long, of brilliance.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Bleedred said:
He's sulked his way out of tens of millions of dollars.  No way he gets a max deal....at least for 5+ years.  At his best, he was arguably one of the top 3 PGS in the NBA.  But the indifference/petulance he's shown over the last 2-3 years (admittedly the injury may have zapped some of his confidence) has made him just another good player who had stretches, some long, of brilliance.
Who is in the market for Rondo this offseason? Can't be many teams.
 

Apisith

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Lakers for sure, but he won't get anything near the max. The Rockets will also be sniffing because he's better than Beverley and will now be cheaper than he was reputed to be before the past season.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Apisith said:
Lakers for sure, but he won't get anything near the max. The Rockets will also be sniffing because he's better than Beverley and will now be cheaper than he was reputed to be before the past season.
 
I suspect that Rockets have 0 interest in Rondo. He can't shoot--not even a tiny bit--is worthless off the ball, and while he's a plus defender when he wants to be, Beverley is a plus defender all the time. The Rockets value 3 point shooting and offensive efficiency. Rondo doesn't offer either of those things. I just don't see how that's a fit. 
 

ifmanis5

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It's not even his game or his athleticism at this point (which are all on the decline), it's his attitude. You can't sulk and tank in the playoffs. If you're a GM it's pretty hard to watch last night and justify to your owner that he's a good investment.
 

ifmanis5

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Woj today on Rondo:
 
 
When Rondo realized his run with the Celtics was over this year, he planned to sign with the Los Angeles Lakers in the summer, league sources told Yahoo Sports. He expected a maximum contract. Once Dallas made the trade, he was open to re-signing with the Mavericks – only there are no max contract offers for Rondo on the market. Not in Dallas, nor Los Angeles. He's played his way out of that payday – not just this year, but since that terrible ACL injury two years ago.
 
 

The Social Chair

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Grin&MartyBarret said:
 
I suspect that Rockets have 0 interest in Rondo. He can't shoot--not even a tiny bit--is worthless off the ball, and while he's a plus defender when he wants to be, Beverley is a plus defender all the time. The Rockets value 3 point shooting and offensive efficiency. Rondo doesn't offer either of those things. I just don't see how that's a fit. 
 
Yep. The ball is in Harden's hands so much in that offense. Rondo couldn't be a worse fit. Morey does like to buy low though. 
 
I'm sure several teams would be OK with buying low if they can get him at the MLE, and there could be one dumb team that over pays for him (Kings?). He'll be playing in China during the 2018 season if he doesn't get his act together. 
 

nighthob

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Bleedred said:
He's sulked his way out of tens of millions of dollars.  No way he gets a max deal....at least for 5+ years.
Just a note, per the last two CBAs the maximum contract length is five years if you sign with the team that has your Bird rights and four if you leave for another.
 

CreightonGubanich

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I'm actually fairly bullish on Rondo in the right situation, but there's so many good and/or young point guards around the league, how many teams are going to be willing to bring in Rondo as the starter, let alone give him a max contract? I really only can count the Knicks and Lakers, and Rondo seems like a terrible fit with both of those teams' stars. Maybe this is all part of Ainge's master plan to lock him up at a discount.
 

nighthob

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CreightonGubanich said:
I'm actually fairly bullish on Rondo in the right situation, but there's so many good and/or young point guards around the league, how many teams are going to be willing to bring in Rondo as the starter, let alone give him a max contract? I really only can count the Knicks and Lakers, and Rondo seems like a terrible fit with both of those teams' stars. Maybe this is all part of Ainge's master plan to lock him up at a discount.
Why the heck would a team with only one scorer, a 5'8" PG, be looking to spend on a player who's only good when surrounded by scorers?

In any event, I think he's bound for LA or New York.
 

nighthob

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Yeah, don't be stepping on my dream of Sam Hinkie falling in love with a middling prospect and agreeing to work out a deal around the Lakers pick followed the Lakers signing Rondo and Love to lead them to Seacaucus.
 

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Rondo has two problems to me:
1. The obvious one being that he has no range, and can't hit FTs which doesn't work in almost every modern offense.
2. He's lost athleticism between aging and the ACL tear. He used to get around his limitations by being so athletic that he could force rotations even when his defender sagged off, he can't anymore.
 
LAL are the obvious destination because:
1. It's where he wants to go.
2. Kobe wants him
3. They have a terrible coach
4. They love big names even if the production isn't there anymore.
5. They appear to have no real plan on how to build that team.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Just saw the clip on the 8 second violation.  Unreal.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT-SBao5ilk
 
nighthob said:
Just a note, per the last two CBAs the maximum contract length is five years if you sign with the team that has your Bird rights and four if you leave for another.
 
I'm thinking Rondo signs (at best) a one-year make good deal; by my estimation, it's more likely he's out of basketball next year than getting a max deal from anyone.
 
And to echo what other people have said, I do think a big part of his issues are not being sure how to be successful after his injury.
 

nighthob

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wade boggs chicken dinner said:
I'm thinking Rondo signs (at best) a one-year make good deal; by my estimation, it's more likely he's out of basketball next year than getting a max deal from anyone.
I don't disagree with this per se, but going on past comments I think both Anthony and Bryant are going to be pushing hard for their employers to sign Rondo. And it wouldn't shock me if both happened with the Knicks sending 'Melo to LA for Randall and whoever the Lakers draft this year and Rondo joining them to form a... well, you couldn't call that a Big Three, so maybe a Three?
 

ifmanis5

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The added "back injury" benefit means he can't sit on the bench (too painful, right!?) and further poison the coach and team. I wonder if they ban him from being with the team altogether.
 

ifmanis5

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Carlisle talking to the press now: says Rondo sustained the injury trying to take a charge from Harden and should not have played after that due to the severity of the injury. He will seek additional opinions. Also, Parsons is done and Devin Harris is probable.
 

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wade boggs chicken dinner said:
Just saw the clip on the 8 second violation.  Unreal.
 
He's sucked wind, but this one is partly on Carlisle for being slow with the call (Shaq pointed this out last night). He should still have the presence of mind to get it over the line, but fucking with the point guard you won't let call plays doesn't help matters.
 
Has there been a point guard who Carlisle got along with since Kidd? Out of the approximately ten bajillion he's had?
 

crystalline

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Do you expect Rajon Rondo to ever wear a Mavericks uniform again? "No, I don't," Rick Carlisle said.
2h ago
 

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Indiana may also be a fit for Rondo. They have previously been interested, need a PG, and have recently suggested they would play more "small ball" next season

It's also a little under 2 hours away from his home in Louisville.

Wouldn't be a max deal, and he'd have to convince Larry he's worth signing.
 

radsoxfan

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Cellar-Door said:
Rondo has two problems to me:
1. The obvious one being that he has no range, and can't hit FTs which doesn't work in almost every modern offense.
2. He's lost athleticism between aging and the ACL tear. He used to get around his limitations by being so athletic that he could force rotations even when his defender sagged off, he can't anymore.
 
 
I always thought Rondo might age poorly….shooting and height are two things that help prolong your career, and Rondo was always in trouble on those two fronts.
 
His vision was so lethal because he was a one man fast break and could beat anyone off the dribble at will. Having great teammates helped, but it wasn't just that. Look at some old film some day and he was often the best player on the team. 
 
But when you combine the fact that he was never likely to age well, the numerous injuries over the past couple of years, and his current attitude (not to mention his mental breakdown from the FT line), and you have the perfect storm of suck.
 
I still think pointing to the version of Rondo we've seen recently and saying he was overrated and propped up by his hall of fame teammates is wrong.  Rondo was damn good, unfortunately for him, his best seasons were age 22-24.  Not everyone fits the normal bell shaped aging curve for a variety of reasons, just be glad Danny didn't overpay for him. 
 

DourDoerr

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Houston already has Smith and Howard shooting FT's at 52% and Motiejunas plays a lot of minutes and is at 60%.  Joey Dorsey is shooting 29%!   Adding Rondo would go a long way to creating the first Hack-A-Team.