BOS bullpen 2018
- Thread starter Hank Scorpio
- Start date
Take away the glasses and I'd argue he looks a lot more like Chris Sale then Joe Kelly.
It's great that Walden lived the dream by pitching in the majors, but he shouldn't be long for the big-league team, with E-Rod and Pomeranz close.
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B. Johnson is out of options, right? if E-rod, Pom, and Wright get healthy ,then Velasquez goes to Pawtucket, and Wright goes to the pen. What happens to Johnson? He's not a short reliever, and Wright is the long-man. I think they're going to have to trade Johnson.
These things usually sort themselves out. Wright doesn't seem all that close to returning. And if by the time he is, Johnson is still pitching well (out of the pen if Pomeranz and Rodriguez are back), then maybe Wright is the one to go. I dont think its worth worrying about.
He's not a short reliever yet. But no reason to think he wouldn't be a better reliever than Bobby Poyner, regardless of role. No reason to think that if all the Sox pitchers are healthy (which would be a very good "problem") that Johnson has to get traded.
Not sure what his role will be but he could be a great multiple inning option when a starter only goes 5 or less.
Both Poyner and Walden will most likely be sent to Pawtucket in order to keep Wright and Johnson on staff, if everyone is healthy all at once.
Which moves would be an enormous and needed upgrade to the bullpen. Having at least one starter-quality relief pitchers able to go multiple innings will be a very important part of limiting the rotation’s innings.
Being able to pull Sale after 5-6 rather than 7-8 innings during non-duel games will hopefully really add up over a 6-month season.
The big question will be who will Thornburg replace in the bullpen? Hembree is pitching very well so it won’t likely be him. Since we are looking at May at the earliest, an injury could occur opening up a spot or perhaps we might have to deal Wright. Either way, the Sox haven’t enjoyed this kind of starting depth in many years and it’s great for the club’s future.
ETA: could the Sox disable Wright for 60 days with an “injury complication?”
ETA: could the Sox disable Wright for 60 days with an “injury complication?”
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Wright's on the DL already, so if he's still there in a month it wouldn't be difficult to justify transferring him to the 60-day DL if necessary. Though Thornburg's return wouldn't really necessitate it since he's already on the 40-man roster.
I think we can all agree that Tyler Thornburgh is a person. Beyond that, I’m not so sure.
IMO, there is no need to start finding answers now, to questions that might not ever need to be asked.
1. You spelled "too" wrong.
2. Post this in a game thread/call WEEI.
3. As has been written, he is up temporarily as a journeyman mop up man while others recover--it is temporary. He came into a 6-1 game against a weak team in the 8th inning.
I weep for the main board. Holy crap.
Thornburg has been so relevant to our club since we gave up Shaw and a couple low-end prospects away for him that we're adding letters to the end of his name. 
Tyler Thornburg is one-half of a trade that has yet to bear fruit for the Red Sox. Thoracic Outlet Syndrome surgeries are yet to produce successes along the lines of Tommy John surgeries. Hopefully, Thornburg can pitch enough to go on a rehab assignment eventually.
Until he's getting AA+ batters out on a regular basis, his status in the 2018 bullpen is about as certain whether or not Wright will pitch a complete game at some point this year or if Hanley will get enough PAs to lock in the option for next year.
Tyler Thornburg is one-half of a trade that has yet to bear fruit for the Red Sox. Thoracic Outlet Syndrome surgeries are yet to produce successes along the lines of Tommy John surgeries. Hopefully, Thornburg can pitch enough to go on a rehab assignment eventually.
Until he's getting AA+ batters out on a regular basis, his status in the 2018 bullpen is about as certain whether or not Wright will pitch a complete game at some point this year or if Hanley will get enough PAs to lock in the option for next year.
First of all, that was a typo caused by my not hitting the "o" key hard enough and I did not notice it. Second, this thread is "BOS bullpen 2018" and I was commenting on a Boston bullpen pitcher.. Third, temporary or not, Walden is currently in the bullpen.
And if you are going to "weep for the main board," then perhaps you could do us the favor of drowning in your own tears.
You posted something of zero substance with no context of the situation and you're angry that someone called you out on it?
Marcus Walden is not a consideration to the bullpen as a whole, he's an entirely temporary placeholder. You can try to make it seem like an irrelevant fact, but it isn't.
Thornburg has been so relevant to our club since we gave up Shaw and a couple low-end prospects away for him that we're adding letters to the end of his name.
His thyme will come.
You are going to have to up your "commenting" game if you want to successfully post outside of a game thread. Game threads happen each day while a game takes place and are a great place for play-by-play frustration and venting things like "Walden is giving up to many hard-hit balls", and it's OK to do it in a couple words at a time with no context and even use some curse words if you feel really frustrated that Cora had the stones to pitch the mop up man in a mop up game. On a main board thread, the content benchmark should be a bit higher.
I'm starting to think that Poyner's going to stick around when the guys start coming off the DL. It's pretty easy to send Velazquez down when Rodriguez comes back, but whoever comes back next pushes Johnson to the 'pen.
But with days off before and after this game, Cora went with Poyner right after Kimbrel. Not Barnes. Not Hembree. Poyner. Some of that may have been a desire to use someone who could go more than one inning, but if that were the overriding factor, they could have used Barnes or Hembree in the 9th and used Velazquez for a couple starting in the 10th.
He seems to have the confidence of his manager is what I'm saying.
But with days off before and after this game, Cora went with Poyner right after Kimbrel. Not Barnes. Not Hembree. Poyner. Some of that may have been a desire to use someone who could go more than one inning, but if that were the overriding factor, they could have used Barnes or Hembree in the 9th and used Velazquez for a couple starting in the 10th.
He seems to have the confidence of his manager is what I'm saying.
I agree.
Walden and then Velazquez go for EdRo and Pomeranz.
The next crunch is if/when Wright and Thornburg are game ready. Poyner absolutely has a shot to establish himself in the 8th in the meantime. You're looking then at alternatives of e.g. cutting Holt, DFAing Johnson or Swihart, or someone else hitting the DL. You 're going to probably have to do one of those things whenever Pedroia is ready to go, too, or if you want both Wright and Thornburg in the pen eventually.
Would they consider just DFAing Wright? There are mitigating factors that work in favor of getting him through waivers.
A team has to keep him active and play shorthanded for 15 games before he can help. If they're not sure he's healthy and/or don't buy into his 2016, there's a real opportunity cost to finding out if he's competent as opposed to any other given waiver claim. Second, he's almost 34. Of course, knuckleballers aren't necessarily on the same age curve as traditional pitchers, but how many of the rebuilding teams are really looking for upside in that age bracket instead of playing the kids.
Would he get claimed?
The Sox don't have to play shorthanded when he's suspended
Now I understand you might not read the Herald, hell, I don't, but it's the last post in the Stephen Wright thread here
Now I understand you might not read the Herald, hell, I don't, but it's the last post in the Stephen Wright thread here
This is obviously true. I'm not enough of a talent evaluator to know if it's real or a hot streak that Cora is riding, but he's almost certain to survive the returns of Rodriguez and Pomeranz.
Worrying about that now is a waste of mental bandwidth.
If it's a hot streak, it looks suspiciously like the three-year-long hot streak that was his minor league career, the only hiccup in which was a poor showing after a possibly too-hasty promotion to Salem in 2016. Before that half-season and after it, he's been nothing but dominating. (It sounds funny to talk about a guy with a 90 mph fastball dominating, but that's what the results have looked like--it's hard to argue with a 10.1/1.8 K9/BB9.)
We watched Koji dominate with an 86-92mph fastball for years. It's not unheard of.
A bit of an aside, but I don’t think I’ve ever loved a pitcher more than 2013-2014 Koji. He combined awesome results with an awesome process. I loved seeing a box score where he would have 3 up, 3 down, on something like 8 pitches. He worked fast and did it with such aplomb and joie de vivre.
Pedro ca 1999-2000 is the only one who could compare but Pedro was so ungodly good that he almost didn’t seem real, like the baseball gods sent him as a sort of experiment to see how perfect a pitcher could be. Koji looked like he stepped out of a beer league somewhere, like one of those goofy movies, like “Angel in the Oufield” (what was that movie about the 15 yo kid with the funky arm who could throw like 110mph).
Pedro ca 1999-2000 is the only one who could compare but Pedro was so ungodly good that he almost didn’t seem real, like the baseball gods sent him as a sort of experiment to see how perfect a pitcher could be. Koji looked like he stepped out of a beer league somewhere, like one of those goofy movies, like “Angel in the Oufield” (what was that movie about the 15 yo kid with the funky arm who could throw like 110mph).
Like Saints Rest, I adored Koji. Beyond how well he used his talents, I don’t know that I ever saw a ball player, in any sport, who was happier playing and winning more than him. His joy was contagious.
He celebrated winning game 7 of a season like it was game 7 of the world series. Loved him for that. Well, that and being remarkably good.
I'll join in the Koji lovefest. Loved watching his emotion and actions on the mound. And if you looked at his 2013 stats without actually seeing it, you'd think they were a misprint.
As for this year's pen, I know it's early, but Carson Smith is really worrisome. Everyone will give up homers sometime, but it's the stuff that's discouraging. That pitch yesterday was 92 with zero movement. That's not going to get it done when most guys are used to facing upper 90s from relievers.
As for this year's pen, I know it's early, but Carson Smith is really worrisome. Everyone will give up homers sometime, but it's the stuff that's discouraging. That pitch yesterday was 92 with zero movement. That's not going to get it done when most guys are used to facing upper 90s from relievers.
Not that I know how these things really work, but that struck me as a big moment for Poyner. The first time in a "big spot," and your manager either does or does not show confidence in you. The former is a big boost, just as the latter might be pretty undercutting.
That Cora allowed this big moment to happen against a team that can't actually hit much, rather than next week, was a pretty good move on his part.
I watched a replay of Poyner and thought, “shit! That kids throwing 98mph heat with good movement”.
Wow. It looked not quite like vintage Bard but close.
Then I saw it was only 91 and it impressed me even more
Wow. It looked not quite like vintage Bard but close.
Then I saw it was only 91 and it impressed me even more
Yup. The description of his motion at SoxProspects says it all: "Short arm action, keeps the ball hidden behind his body so hitters don’t pick the ball up until late."
The combination of good control, a deceptive delivery, and decent secondary stuff can take a soft-tosser a long way, as Koji's example shows. I'm not saying Poyner is Koji II, of course, but I'm impressed by the control he has shown in these couple of stints, especially for a guy with no experience above AA. If you go to his brooksbaseball.com page and look at the zone maps, you'll see that he's doing a great job so far with location on the slider, in particular--running it away from LHH and burying RHH down and in with it.
Who knows if he can keep it up, but he seems to know what he's doing.
Koji and Foulke, neither with 90 mph fastballs, put up two of the most dominant relief seasons in Sox history
Other than Bard not being a lefty. The results are good so far, but he looks pretty hittable to me. Perhaps one of the more analytical folks can explain the good fortune of Poyner, despite his lack of "cheese".
Deception and a good variety of pitches, according to Speier: http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2018/04/06/take-big-leaguer-bobby-poyner-once-told-red-sox/h8IvBJiJp8cYc4vjadLClJ/story.html
I recall Koji had a high spin rate ... does Poyner have a high spin rate?
Let's wait until the league sees him for quite a bit more than 3 innings before we analyze this SSS of effectiveness
Though less lovable (and harder-throwing), Papelbon 2007 is the third member of that holy trinity.
Poyner averaged a little over 2,000 rpm for his faster pitches on Thursday. I don’t think that is a particularly high spin rate. Price, by comparison, was in the same range on his faster stuff.
WALDEN optioned to PawSox after today's Rays Game so they can activate EdRod. He will be back. I wish he could stay.
Is that middle of the pack in general or high and low.
Some years ago, we looked at Buccholz and determined a high correlation between his success and the RsPM in his changeup but not the other pitches, for example.
@absintheofmalaise @iforgethisusernamebuthisnameismikeandhasaspacemanspiffavatar
Did he show something today beyond efficiency? I missed his innings, but his earlier appearances looked like a lot of pitches smashed directly at fielders. Happy for the results he provided, but don't know how much I'd trust him in a regular role once the BABIP wave breaks.