Pretty sure O'Halloran doesn't have a say in whether his own boss keeps his job.
Bloom, Cora -- Do they stay or do they go?
- Thread starter moondog80
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Aren't there two different things here? The first is saying that Bloom should have identified prospects who wouldn't have developed and cashed in - and the second is saying his predecessors did a good job of not trading valuable prospects without getting a justifiable return. On the latter, Bloom hasn't deal a prospect of consequence yet from what I've seen (maybe I'm missing someone)
Looking at Dombrowski, and we agree entirely he did a great job trading who he traded and keeping who he kept in terms of those choices (with one exception that's hard to mark him down for), these are the Top 10 prospects he inherited going into the 2016 pre-season with their "grade" from Minor League Ball as well as other notable names (for instance Dubon and Marrero were in Fangraphs Top 10 and Ball had a 1st round pedigree)
Yoan Moncada (A)
Rafael Devers (A-)
Andrew Benintendi (A-)
Anderson Espinosa (B+)
Michael Kopech (B)
Sam Travis (B/B-)
Brian Johnson (B-/B)
Wendell Rijo (B-/C+)
Luis Alexander Basabe (B-/C+)
Michael Chavis (B-/C+)
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Deven Marrero (C+)
Mauricio Dubon (C+)
Trey Ball (C+)
Of the "Big 4" he traded two and kept two, and it's hard to argue he made the wrong call there. Devers is a star and Benny was a plus value OF until his power got sapped. Moncada has shown flashes but is a mixed bag and Espinosa got sidelined by injuries. Kopech went in the Sale deal and while it'd be nice to have a Kopech...it was much nicer to have a Sale and win a title. But going down the list, he left a lot of those guys in the system and didn't convert them into anything to help the club and they eventually petered out. The best MLB player on this list outside of the Top 5 is Mauricio Dubon, who Dave Dombrowski did trade for Tyler Thornburg (this happens, no shade on DD) but it really goes to the point that every GM will have prospects who just flame out and they don't convert to pro value (the second best player is probably not on this list, Santiago Espinal, who the Sox traded for Steve Pearce and who has been a valuable utility cog in Toronto...but we all know what Pearce did in 2018). Prospects are hard, assessing if they'll be pro contributors and converting them into something better is even harder. Even a great front office that often wins trades and is generally considered S-Tier does this. Here's Tampa's Top 10 prospects from 2020
Wander Franco
Brendan McKay
Vidal Brujan
Xavier Edwards
Shane Baz
Brent Honeywell
Shane McLanahan
Joe Ryan
Josh Lowe
Greg Jones
They still have Brendan McKay who hasn't played in the MLB since 2019, Vidal Brujan who has been a nothingburger at the MLB level, and Greg Jones (who is doing...okay at AA/AAA). The three Top 10 guys they don't have any more (Joe Ryan, Brent Honeywell, and Xavier Edwards) are all MLB contributors of varying quality (Ryan is good, Honeywell and Edwards aren't as good). They kept the best players - Wander (well...), Baz (if healthy), McClanahan, and Lowe, but it's a tough game to properly assess that and other teams are gonna have their views too.
I think what is fair for people doubtful of Bloom is how he picks the prospects he'll send out for that major contributing talent - we just don't know that yet as he hasn't had to do it or done it. Tampa historically survived by being sellers and accumulating cost controlled talent to use in future years, and in Boston he only had one buying deadline and did well with Schwarber but that's very different than what we think). But I can't pin a failure to deal Bryan Mata (BTW, the #3 prospect he inherited...jeez that farm was a disaster) on him and more than I can pin a failure to deal Brian Johnson on DD or Henry Owens on Cherrington for instance. Bloom's ultimate fate in Boston will likely depend on which of these prospects Bloom does trade for MLB talent (or what MLB talent he trades to make room for these prospects) and how that plays out but if we're going to be mad at Chaim Bloom for not converting Bryan Mata or Brandon Walter into something else (especially when we are pining for any pitching talent we can get), we'll never be happy.
I think it's pretty basic: for all intents and purposes, Bloom has refused to deal away any minor leaguers since he got here. I think he's only done it three times: he traded away a middling prospect for Schwarber, a post-prospect for Hosmer, and then another middling prospect for Urias. The Vazquez, Benintendi, and Renfroe trades added some depth to the system, too, but mostly the system has improved because he's hoarded every single minor leaguer whose crossed his paths. I think just about any MLB org that refused to deal prospects for five years would see similar progress in the rankings.
This isn't a miss, he was traded in 2016 and two teams and six years later he has had an adequate season. He has a .677 career OPS and turns 30 next summer, if this is one of the best prospects your team has moved, they're doing well.
That was my point really - that "most of the farm system did absolutely nothing and the best guy on it below the Top 5 was a guy with a .677 OPS who turns 30 next summer" - so blaming Bloom for not moving guys who declined when every other GM does the same exact thing seems out of line to me.
My vote is Bloom stays, Cora goes. Somebody upthread posted that Cora wants to stay in Boston while his daughter is at BC, so sounds like he’ll need to be fired.
I used to be fine with Cora, but now I’m not. I take issue with O’Halloran’s description of Cora as one of the best managers in baseball. My evidence is the following:
1. Record against sub-.500 teams. One of the best managers in baseball does not allow his team to be swept multiple times by some of the worst teams in the league.
2. Situational awareness: hitting, fielding, baserunning. Physical errors are one thing; shit happens. But way too many mental errors on the bases and in the field. And way too many failures to plate a runner on third with no outs.
The little things add up, and this team didn’t do enough of the little things right. That’s on the manager and his coaches.
I think most of what Bloom has done has worked out, Kluber being the main exception (and the rationale for Kluber seemed sound enough).
And I’m very excited for a future with Little Raffy, Teel, Anthony, Casas, Bello, Mayer, et al…
I used to be fine with Cora, but now I’m not. I take issue with O’Halloran’s description of Cora as one of the best managers in baseball. My evidence is the following:
1. Record against sub-.500 teams. One of the best managers in baseball does not allow his team to be swept multiple times by some of the worst teams in the league.
2. Situational awareness: hitting, fielding, baserunning. Physical errors are one thing; shit happens. But way too many mental errors on the bases and in the field. And way too many failures to plate a runner on third with no outs.
The little things add up, and this team didn’t do enough of the little things right. That’s on the manager and his coaches.
I think most of what Bloom has done has worked out, Kluber being the main exception (and the rationale for Kluber seemed sound enough).
And I’m very excited for a future with Little Raffy, Teel, Anthony, Casas, Bello, Mayer, et al…
It's a thing and it's a huge thing.
At the end of the day, this is a business. John Henry is in this to make money and maximize the return on his investment in the team. In a tough, competitive sports market like Boston (and in this time of crazy inflation), there is only a limited amount of dollars out there to be made. The Sox have to present themselves as a strong alternative to going to a Patriots game or even a Bruins or Celtics game both in the spring and in October. The Fenway area is also is undergoing a huge re-development and in a time where office buildings are becoming vacant, those new leases have to be sold and signed. A middling Sox team only in the wild card race until August and a half empty park for games against the Yankees in September just aren't going to get it done.
Perception is reality and it matters.
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