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Discussion in 'Red Sox Forum' started by RedOctober3829, Oct 21, 2017.
Cora will be introduced at noon today
And then the countdown clock to his firing will commence:
DiSarcina to Mets as bench coach.
A former manager needs a job. Used to be a pitching coach iirc. Naaahhh. Probably wouldn't work out.
Anyways, have they spoken to Righetti or asked permission to? I can't see what it would hurt to ask. Wouldn't he be the best option now?
I asked that question upthread, probably others have too, and nobody’s responded so far.
I need to learn more Spanish.
Going through some old articles about pitching coach searches this fall. Here are names that came up:
Indians: Steve Karsay (Clippers Coach)
Indians: Scott Atchison (Former Red Sox...currently hired as bullpen coach)
Twins: Dan Warthen (ruined many a staff, apparently)
Twins: Derek Lilliquist (Cardinals)
Twins: Jeremy Hefner (Twins video scout)
Cardinals: Brian Eversgerd (AAA)
Cardinals: Cal Eldred (Special Asst)
Dodgers: Rick Honeycutt (long shot)
Giants: Frank Viola (Mets AAA)
Giants: Darryl Scott (Rockies)
Giants: Dave Burba
Giants: Darren Balsley (Padres...and best name ever)
Phillies: Rick Kranitz (Asst Coach)
...just thought I'd research some other names being thrown around in various cities.
Sean McAdam @Sean_McAdam 26m26 minutes ago
Asked if it will be a "goal" to stay under CBT in 2018, Dombrowski answers, simply: "No." John Henry later confirmed the same
While you're on a roll, another name: Rich Dubee (former Tigers, Phillies and Marlins coach)
No idea. But it couldnt hurt. this Dodgers team had a great success with doubles and homeruns, at a more friendly pitcher's park. Plus, he preaches patience at the plate.
He also has familiarity with the Red sox organization by subbing in for Colbrunn and scouting for the team previously.
Really impressed by Cora in this press conference. So relaxed, being familiar with all of the reporters he knew from his days here. Not just giving canned responses but really thoughtful in the way he is responding. Good first impression for me.
“@ByChrisMason: Craig Kimbrel could be used differently in 2018. Cora says he believes there are times when your best pitcher needs to get outs before 9th.”
Definitely in line with current managerial thinking, see: Tito, Hinch, Madden, Roberts
Kimbrel was in fact used that way early in the season, before later being switched to the 9th only, apparently at his request, IIRC
This should be interesting to see play out
In line with playoff usage, maybe. But how often was Cody Allen, Ken Giles, Wade Davis, or Kenley Jansen used in pre-9th inning situations?
Allen entered 16 of 69 (23%) appearances before the 9th (3 times in the 7th)
Giles entered 11 of 63 (17%) appearances before the 9th (all in 8th)
Davis entered 1 of 59 (1.6%) appearances before the 9th (8th inning ahead by 6)
Jansen entered 14 of 65 (21%) appearances before the 9th (all in 8th)
Kimbrel entered 6 of 67 (9%) appearances before the 9th (all in 8th, all but one before All Star Break)
So Tito and Roberts aren't averse to bringing in their closer earlier. Hinch seems to be slightly above average (guessing). Maddon did no such thing. And Farrell was in line with these other guys until Kimbrel expressed a desire for him to stop.
It will indeed be curious to see if Kimbrel goes along with this idea...at least for the whole season. I firmly believe it is the pitcher more than the manager that drives this kind of usage.
Kimbrel was used this way in 2017 and told Farrell it shouldn't happen. Wonder if that changes.
Pretty sure it was multiple innings CK objected to, not earlier innings.
Nice story that I had never heard.
After clinching the division in 2007, Cora brought a bottle of champagne up to the control room at Fenway to thank the A-V production crew.
That's my recall, too. The extra 33% of pitches took a toll. Now, if Roberts means, use the best guy for the heart of the order in the 8th and someone else who doesn't suck for the 9th, then it will be interesting.
This stuff just doesn’t feel genuine anymore. Just rinse and repeat. So bored with the act.
What stuff exactly?
New York Post is impressed. i don't know the writer at all. Don't ever read the paper. Just caught my eye.
They are correct though. I think the Sox made the right choice. I love how he said in the PC that he wants to hear music blaring in the clubhouse after a win. “One thing I would love is to hear music after the game when we win,” Cora said. “That’s the cool part of the whole thing: play music. Enjoy, enjoy the moment because at the end of the day, to win a big league ballgame is hard. It’s hard enough and if you don’t enjoy it, if you don’t have fun doing it, it’s going to get to the point where it’s going to be like ‘Blah, this is not fun.’
I can't wait for next year. Hopefully, there is a LOT of fun and a LOT of music being played. I think there will be. But they need some pop in the lineup. DD will get that done. I have no doubt.
I like the sound of Cora's take on baserunning aggressiveness:
"Cora also addressed how analytics can affect base running.
“We’re going to take advantage of that,” he said. “I want them to take advantage of situations, understand base running is important but to understand the value of the outs. When can you be aggressive? When do you have to let the guy at the plate do damage? We’re going to do that."
Seems like a real change compared to this:
"I think we also recognize that the cardinal rule is don't ever make the first or third out at third base. But I will say this: the one thing that we have continued to try to do and it's worked in our favor -- it's also been at times a detriment -- is the outs recorded on base paths. We have instilled an aggressive style, that's part of who we are as a team, so I'm not going to fault Pedey for making an in-game decision, that didn't quite work out."
From that same article: "The Red Sox led the majors in outs at home plate (29) and outs at third base (19). They were second for outs at second base (25)."
"While we recognize there are outs -- last night we ran into three of them -- we always try to instill pushing the envelope, being the aggressor," Farrell said. "There comes a price with that. But I think there's something to be said for creating opportunities that might not be as obvious as the out itself."
Cora is already talking about situations and understanding the value of outs, which was missing from Farrell's constant talk of always being aggressive last year.
Aggressive baserunning is great, as long as the situation is factored in. Cora is already talking about being aggressive at the right time, instead of aggressive all the time, which is an important distinction that seemed to be missing from last year's Red Sox on the bases.
Yes! This is EXACTLY what many of us have been talking about, and the fact that he's talking about this already, I have to think that this is a concern that DD had in the first place, and has likely had conversations with Cora specifically about this. This is exactly what I want from management. I think Cora is going to be a really nice boon for this team. Imagine all the talent on this team, but with situational awareness to boot.
Yes. A million times yes to this.
No one wants the Red Sox to play station-to-station baseball. For one thing it's not pleasant to watch but the other thing is that it's much more difficult to score runs. On the other hand, you don't want your players running around the bases as if their hair was on fire either. Last year the Red Sox made more stupid base running blunders than any other Sox team that I've ever seen.
And Farrell's reaction was, "Welp, we try to be aggressive and if things happen, then they happen!" Which is insane to me.
From his comments, Cora knows that there's a time to be aggressive and push the defensive team into screwing up -- the Sox did that a bit last year too and were able to take advantage. But Cora also knows that a lot of times, it's just not going to work and you ran yourself out of an inning.
We all know that outs are sacred, theoretically you can play all night if the other team never records that 27th out, so you don't make it easy for them. I'm glad that we finally have a manager who understands that.
Red Sox promoted Dana Levangie to pitching coach. That is an interesting choice to say the least.
No one else left on market?
Wow. Is it common for a pitching coach to never have pitched? He has worked his way up quite nicely from one time bullpen catcher and he's a local boy. I'll be rooting for him.
Also. Someone likes the hire
Off the top of my head, Rube Walker was the Mets pitching coach in the late 60s and 70s. He was a backup catcher for 11 MLB seasons. Not only did the likes of Seaver, Koosman, Ryan and McGraw get their starts under Walker, all pitched usefully (or better) well into the 1980s. (all into their 40s, except McGraw, who finished at 39).
He might be an exception, but there are probably a few others.
Dave Duncan might be the most famous.
Like most of you, I’ve been going to Red Sox games for most of my life. I even remember LeVangie as the bullpen catcher in the mid-90s, warming up the likes of Jeff Suppan and Kerry Lacy. Of those three, I don’t think you could’ve ever convinced me that it’d be LeVangie guiding Red Sox pitchers 20 years later.
Yeah. I began to think of it being more realistic when he continued to survive regime changes, but its still quite the move up the organizational ladder.
As a former catcher, I'd venture to say that there's a lot that could be learned about pitching from spending 20 years in the bullpen (including SP's pre-game warm-ups). How many different pitchers has he seem come through in that time - gotta be well over 100.
Bullpen was a strength last year, so LeVangie must have been doing something right. That said, the Red Sox have solved one problem, but created another -- they need a bullpen coach now.
Yep. Great call all around. Really excited for Cora, and looking forward to the GM moves that will refresh the lineup.
Norm Sherry is another one--catcher, then coach (also manager).
They need a Porcello/E-rod whisperer. A good bullpen is a plus. The Sox could do fine with a slightly-worse Sale, a full season of Price, and a repeat from Pom, plus two. They'd do better with a slight downtick for the bullpen, the main three, and resurgent seasons from Porcello and E-Rod.
(Not sayng that LeVangie can't help those two, but they're the most needed fixes on the club.)
Maybe Ziegler is using the word "incredible" literally?
Joe Becker was a former catcher who was the pitching coach for the Dodgers who helped to oversee Sandy Koufax's transformation (and Don Drysdale) then went on to St. Louis to help Bob Gibson solidify his greatness while tutoring the beginnings of Steve Carlton and Nelson Briles.
I'm ignorant as to what a bullpen coach's job is other than answering the phone and making sure that the right guy(s) warms up. Is he a secondary pitching coach, as LeVangie's promotion would indicate or is the job less than that and LeVangie is a unique case?
And remember all, we also have Bannister in his hybrid FO/coach role.
During the Giants run, and before, maybe, Mike Krukow always gave a lot of credit to Mark Gardner, Giants bullpen coach, for working with pitchers down there. Of course, Dave Righetti got most of the National attention. Krukow’s an old pitcher and I always assumed he knew what he was talking about. I wonder where Gardner is going now.
I would think saying a bullpen coach's job is to answer the phone would be like saying a CPA's job is to send emails. Answering the phone or sending an email is simply an administrative task that accounts for about 1% of their job description.
LeVangie's role with the team last year (in addition to "bullpen coach") was also the catching coordinator, along with advanced scouting, which him and Butterfield led. Alex Cora mentioned today that LeVangie would have been qualified to be the hitting coach as well. It seems like every coach on the team has a title, and then various roles and responsibilities on top of that. I imagine that is the same for every team in MLB, but not completely sure. See below for what I have gathered for the new coaching staff:
Alex Cora - Manager
Ron Roenicke - Bench Coach
Tom Goodwin - 1B Coach / OF Instructor / Baserunning Instructor
Carlos Febles - 3B Coach / IF Instructor
Tim Hyers - Hitting Coach
Andy Barkett - Asst. Hitting Coach
Dana LeVangie - Pitching Coach
Brian Bannister - Asst. Pitching Coach (not confirmed)
TBD - Bullpen Coach / Catching Instructor
Ramon Vazquez - "Quality Control" Coach
Interesting tidbit I just realized. "Quality Control" coach Ramon Vazquez was traded to the Sox for none other than Dave Roberts, and was traded from the Sox for..... Alex Cora.
Maybe they can also bring on Jay Payton as the TBD Bullpen Coach/Catching instructor, until he complains his way out of town that he should have had one of the other better roles.
New bullpen coach
I like him already.