There is no where to put this, but I thought it was an amazing listen. It makes you realize that Charles Barkley really is a role model, and a good dude, even with all the bluster.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/a6bbkw/my_dads_friendship_with_charles_barkley_nice/?st=JPPJCX7C&sh=b9d2497d
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/a6bbkw/my_dads_friendship_with_charles_barkley_nice/?st=JPPJCX7C&sh=b9d2497d
We drafted him for New Jersey who was picking 2 slots below us. JaJuan Johnson was Ainge’s guy in that slot and Dallas, who was sandwiched between the teams, had MarShon on their radar as they were looking for a scoring wing.
Yeah but I remember stuff like Troy Bell and Dahntay Jones. I just completely forgot we drafted Brooks.
I understand all that. I wasn’t wondering why just marveling at how dumb it is.
Made all the more bold knowing he’s got Adams there to regulate if shit actually jumps off.
It apparently stems from the criticism Sarver took around the league for essentially gifting Tyson Chandler to the Lakers and he didn’t want to continue down that road of perceived collusion.
So this deal ends up being some lint and spare change for someone else's lint and spare change. You can come at me with what the trade machine says in terms of win delta but I will simply say that this changes nothing for either team. Nothing.
Edit: I know Oubre looks attractive on paper for the Suns but unless I need the body, I'd let the guy walk next year. He cannot really shoot from deep and his defense sucks - he is not a guy I want taking minutes from younger, higher upside players. Of course, Bill Simmons can now watch him play in a more convenient time zone.
Last edited:
Yeah this is a weird trade, the Wizards are still trash, and now somehow have no guard depth.
The Suns get Oubre's RFA rights I guess, but they have 3 wings ahead of him?
Unless PHX plans to move at least 1, if not both of Jackson and Warren it feels like this is a pretty nothing deal
The Suns get Oubre's RFA rights I guess, but they have 3 wings ahead of him?
Unless PHX plans to move at least 1, if not both of Jackson and Warren it feels like this is a pretty nothing deal
It’s more than that. They don’t have a single NBA quality BACKUP 1 on their roster much less enough to cover 48 minutes unless this is how they want to use Booker which to me is an awful use of resources. You can’t develop players or even run a basis offensive set with Melton in the first unit while forced to use Daniels and J-Crawford on the ball. At least with Rivers st the 1 for 35-40 mpg he can put the rest of the lineup in positions to play their game. The other night was a train wreck even in a win!
Somewhat ironically, the second round pick that Ainge received from the Nets in 2011 went back to Brooklyn in the Pierce/Garnett trade, when the Celtics ":reacquired" Marshon..
Fair enough. I mean, I would almost prefer to sign a G-league ball-handler than give that role to Austin Rivers who, deserved or not, appears to have a clubhouse malcontent label attached to him. I have no problem with the Suns bringing in veterans to give some of the kids a stable influence - J-Crossover and Ariza seem to be fairly well respected so they fit the bill. However if Rivers is anything like his reputation, its a bad fit for a young team.
Oubre is still finding his role in this league but is in that weird spot where he is fairly young but hasn't defined his game. As such, he needs playing time but I would be hard pressed to give it to him over a younger, higher-upside player. Add Rivers and his baggage and I don't get what the Suns are doing here.
This trade makes a bit more sense for Washington though its kind of a poor man's version of what the 76ers did with Butler. In that case Philly got the best talent but gave up good depth. Ariza's poor play this season may just be a function of playing with Phoenix. More than likely, some of the decline is age related. Either way, its not a big delta generating move for either club.
Maybe I'm watching basketball on Earth-90, but I'd like to hear more about why Oubre can't play defense.
Note deflections - admittedly not defense - are in top 5-isn in NBA.
The Suns have been trying with a G-League point guard with veteran stability in Crawford and it isn’t working. Rivers and Oubre give the Suns actual NBA players for this team to try and be competitive in these games on both ends of the floor (don’t understand the dislike for Oubre’s defense). There are limits to giving young undeserving players minutes when it results in the Suns damaging their brand while not putting someone like Ayton in a position to succeed without having guards able to execute an offense. At the very least the presence of Rivers and Oubre will add some stability to their guard/wing rotation.
The other thing is that Sarver is in the middle of trying to get an arena deal done in Phoenix and the optics of being down 41-9 after 1Q every other night isn’t helping him any.
Ariza is in his prime as a 3-and-D glue guy. Houston was a great situation for his skill set as would the Lakers have been. Phoenix hasn’t run a functionable offensive set sincerely Booker went down. It was an awful fit for him.
Josh
And they shouldn't give up Hart for Ariza, and that has nothing to do with AD. Hart is a 40% shooter from three and likely a better ball player right now than 33 year old Ariza
Aside from deflections, what am I missing about his defense? I get that the metrics are flawed but he is bad whether you use DBPM or D rating or just about anything else that is publicly available. And that is discounting the eye test which suggests he plays lackadaisical defense too.
That said, I am open to being convinced otherwise.
So, Toronto lost last night while shooting 18/31 from 3 (58.1%). That seems awfully hard to do, and I'd be surprised if there are many examples of teams shooting that well, on that volume and losing a game. I didn't see the game, but looking at the box score, it seems like turnovers and officiating were the culprit. Both teams shot the same number of free throws (21), but the Raptors were called for 21 fouls to 15 for the Blazers, so I'm guessing there were a number of "off-ball" fouls, maybe moving screens, called against the Raps. The Raptors also turned it over 16 times to the Blazers 8.
The end result is that the Blazers took 94 shots from the floor (they shot 51.1%, and 13/27 48.1% from deep), while the Raptors took only 77 shots (they shot 55.8% and the aforementioned 18/31 from deep).
Strange box score.
The end result is that the Blazers took 94 shots from the floor (they shot 51.1%, and 13/27 48.1% from deep), while the Raptors took only 77 shots (they shot 55.8% and the aforementioned 18/31 from deep).
Strange box score.
As for Oubre's defense, first off he's 23 and not that many people are consistent lockdown defenders at 23. He's got all the physical tools to do so and he's got the motor. He's regularly asked to guard the other team's best scorer and the eye test says that he can do a credible job on 1s and 4s as well. Plus, he's on a team that shows an overall defensive indifference so I'm not sure the defensive statistics are the best place to evaluate him.
I don't watch a ton of the 'Zards but I watch some. The article linked in this reddit discussion from last spring and the ensuing comments sum up my thoughts, which is that Oubre shows flashes of being an elite defensive player but lacks consistency and a proper environment: https://www.reddit.com/r/washingtonwizards/comments/870x8i/kelly_oubre_is_an_enigma/.
I think he'd be a great defender on the Cs.
I agree with pretty much everything you say here regarding Oubre.
Lonzo and LeBron with matching triple doubles tonight in a blow out. Ball has got to be the most intriguing player out there. Made a few 3 tonights but probably more impressive was his aggression going to the hoop. He'd be something if he can score consistently. 5 steals and a block tonight, too. Just hard to believe the shot will be consistent, though.
Ok y’all knew this was coming......Look out for dem Bulls!! Dunn taking the game over down the stretch MJ-style with 3 jumpers and 2 def boards in the final 58 seconds and a 24/7/3/2 in his first start back. Markkanen also back big in the lineup they’ve won 2 in a row including coming back from 21 down in San Antonio in the 2nd half.
http://www.espn.com/nba/game?gameId=401071114
http://www.espn.com/nba/game?gameId=401071114
Last edited:
Washington Wizards history lesson:
Chris Webber (age 25) traded for Mitch Richmond (33)
Rasheed Wallace (21) traded for Rod Strickland (30)
Ben Wallace (24) traded for Ike Austin (30)
Rip Hamilton (24) traded for Jerry Stackhouse
Kelly Oubre (23) traded for Trevor Ariza (33)
Chris Webber (age 25) traded for Mitch Richmond (33)
Rasheed Wallace (21) traded for Rod Strickland (30)
Ben Wallace (24) traded for Ike Austin (30)
Rip Hamilton (24) traded for Jerry Stackhouse
Kelly Oubre (23) traded for Trevor Ariza (33)
Mavs short handed in the backcourt with both DSJ and Barea out coming off embarrassing loss to Phoenix on Thursday. Jalen Brunson getting the start with Devin Harris seeing larger role. Good bounce back spot for Dallas here.
Lakers in one of those tricky dog days spot on the road coming off a blowout win against a depleted Wizards team. This could be one of those “surprise” games that really aren’t surprises due to the flat spot for LA.
Last edited:
Looking forward to seeing Brunson play. He suffered from the Brogdon/VanVleet/Hart NBA draft syndrome. After having successful college careers they get drafted late (or not at all) and are cast as old guards with little upside.
i think the 4 year point guard is a good "moneyball" niche. Lots of those guys having good success in the league.
Wizards lead the Lakers by 23 after the 3rd Quarter. Wonder if the sharps hammered the Wiz in this one.
I don't get why people didn't see that before. 4 year players in general are going to be more ready to contribute, if that's what you need right now. PG even more so.
Hield (26 points) and Fox (20 points) have the Kings up over the Mavs by 10 to start the fourth in Dallas. Luka is trying his best with 19 points, seven assists and five boards but he is about the only guy on the Mavs playing well.
damn, Sacremento controlling this game down the stretch. Fox cannot be stopped. Reminds me of a young John Wall, lightning quick, all over the floor.
Kings don't blow it this time: Fox with four huge plays (layup, floater and two dimes to WCS) down the stretch to seal it. 120-113 Kings in Dallas.
Fox seems like a can't miss perennial all-star at this point, barring injury (and knocking wood for Kings fans). The body language and comments of the Warriors during and after last game showed how much respect they have for him already. Draymond, who normally has no issues locking down little guys, basically said, in so many words, "I can't guard him — we only won because he had to sit with foul trouble."
Fultz #1, Ball #2. LOL.
Buddy Hield is also a borderline stud at this point: probably a better / more diverse offensive player than Klay Thompson, if a smaller and less versatile defender.
TLDR: Sac is 100% legit.
Fox seems like a can't miss perennial all-star at this point, barring injury (and knocking wood for Kings fans). The body language and comments of the Warriors during and after last game showed how much respect they have for him already. Draymond, who normally has no issues locking down little guys, basically said, in so many words, "I can't guard him — we only won because he had to sit with foul trouble."
Fultz #1, Ball #2. LOL.
Buddy Hield is also a borderline stud at this point: probably a better / more diverse offensive player than Klay Thompson, if a smaller and less versatile defender.
TLDR: Sac is 100% legit.
Toronto (who has seemingly been on the road for the entire month) in a dogfight in Denver with 1:41 left in the fourth. Nuggets up 92-85.
I feel the GM’s do see it but don’t value 2nd unit or rotational guards greater than a low-1st at best. Anything higher is generally reserved for the higher upside guys with obviously greater risk while you can pretty much acquire the Hart/Vanvleet/Brunson-types whenever you want. Of course Brogdon was the outlier here.
Of these 4 players would any go for a mid-1st if they were on the market? The Bucks hit a home run with Brogdon and that’s about his max value.
Good question. The Celtics could potentially have a bunch of mid-1st picks, would they offer one of them (on the condition they are no higher than 15)?
Brogdon, definitely.
Vanvleet or Hart? maybe
Didn't see the game but apparently Nick Nurse willingly signed up for the NBA's mandatory $25k fine for criticizing the officiating on Kawhi in the post-game presser. Part of me wonders if these orders came from above as a way of showing Kawhi that the Raptors have his back but apparently he was once again the "nice guy victim" similar to Brad in that he doesn't challenge the officials when questionable or bad decisions are made against them.
It's Josh Hart and he's already better than Trevor Ariza. They shouldn't be giving up a player like him for a potentially washed 3-and-D guy.
Last edited:
Indeed. I love Arizas game but he looks cooked. Hart is pretty valuable as a rotation piece - I am not sure what an Ariza for Hart swap does for the Lakers anyway except to add more age to their roster.
Finally, from what I've read, there was no such potential trade to start. As was discussed in this forum, Sarver instructed his front office not to trade Ariza to the Lakers.
Ariza is far from cooked. This is what 3-and-D role players look like in dysfunctional situations. People were blindly saying the same about Tyson Chandler when he was 35 a couple years ago while looking like crap in Phoenix. Ariza is 33 and in his prime for the role he's asked to play as he's a better shooter today than he was 6-7 years ago and a much wiser defender and leader.
Yeah, imagine how much better Ariza would be on offense with LeBron getting him the ball in spots where he likes to get it. As it is, Ariza is playing with a bunch of young guys who want to get their numbers and don't care much about winning.
But Ariza is not the kind of player that the Pelicans would want in a hypothetical deal for AD, and with AD's move to Klutch Sports, the Lakers must feel that they are a front runner for AD's services, even though the Celtics could put the best player on the table-- Tatum-- in any AD deal.
But Ariza is not the kind of player that the Pelicans would want in a hypothetical deal for AD, and with AD's move to Klutch Sports, the Lakers must feel that they are a front runner for AD's services, even though the Celtics could put the best player on the table-- Tatum-- in any AD deal.
Ariza has played 15 regular seasons plus a playoff career that has spanned what amounts to another season and a quarter. LeBron and Tom Brady and even Tyson Chandler (though the data doesn't lie - his performance has been in steady decline for about four years now) may have defied serious age related cliffs but Trevor Ariza, even before going to Phoenix, had shown signs that age was catching up with him. Some of his offensive numbers were up last year but I would argue that is just as attributable to the system he was in and players he was surrounded by in Houston as some of his decline is, no doubt, a function of being with the Suns.
I will not be surprised if Ariza shows some bounce back for the Wizards but if you think he is anywhere near the player he was during his last Washington go-around, I am not in agreement. The guy can be effective in spots but if you are hoping to get 30+ minutes a night of anything other than a league-average player I think you will be sorely disappointed. We shall see though as we will now have a control situation versus his time in Phoenix.
Jeepers, I seem to have put the Port Cellar whammy on Fox and the Kings. They’re down 63-28 to the Wolves, Fox with 0 points on 0-4 fg.
Phoenix resembles a real live NBA team with Booker and Warren back healthy. Up 100-85 early 4th in NY.....yeah it's NY but still.
3 straight wins for the Suns.
Celtics better be prepared. The Suns blew a 22pt lead vs. the C's earlier this season
Celtics better be prepared. The Suns blew a 22pt lead vs. the C's earlier this season