Not since the rookie cap salary slotting is in place. it's a lot better place to be than it used to be.
Edit: He'd still probably trade it for 18 3rd round picks.
2017 Jimmy G: The Dilemma
- Thread starter bakahump
- Start date
Edit: He'd still probably trade it for 18 3rd round picks.
IMO as posted above, BB the Warren Buffet of the NFL would swap the pick (the #1 or the 12) for a basket for of 2 and 3s etc to fill several needs.
If they want JG they should take the trade down opportunity themselves. The Patriots would take a later 1st round pick. No reason to trade 1 overall for JG imo
I know this mindset has been roundly rebuffed but:
If they get any kind of 1st round pick, BB should absolutely trade down if it makes sense.
But, they should trade no lower than #32, so that it's still an F-U 1st round pick.
BB will still get great value out of it, so I'm not that worried that it would be wasting value for emotional reasons. And it would make me, as a fan, so happy.
Edit to try to add minimal content:
Would one of the teams named be able to trade their pick (say a #1) well down to the end of the 1st round, and then trade the later pick for JG? This way they could get what the QB but not at quite as high a premium.
(Not really meaningful if the trade is '1st and 3rd' or whatever)
If they get any kind of 1st round pick, BB should absolutely trade down if it makes sense.
But, they should trade no lower than #32, so that it's still an F-U 1st round pick.
BB will still get great value out of it, so I'm not that worried that it would be wasting value for emotional reasons. And it would make me, as a fan, so happy.
Edit to try to add minimal content:
Would one of the teams named be able to trade their pick (say a #1) well down to the end of the 1st round, and then trade the later pick for JG? This way they could get what the QB but not at quite as high a premium.
(Not really meaningful if the trade is '1st and 3rd' or whatever)
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What he trades it for (if he does) should be based solely on the value he receives back. Juvenile tendencies of 'f u' retribution can be satisfied by simply getting the first round pick to begin with. Beyond that, BB doesn't work that way. If he gets the 12 picks and turns it into a high 2nd this year and a first next (or something similar) one would be an idiot to be upset because it didn't match the exact penalty at the end of the day.
Indeed, which is why I phrased it the way I did.
I don't expect him to worry about it.
But it would make me happy if it worked out that way, and I trust that if it did BB would make it worth it.
There are reports are Bridgewater will miss the 2017 season, but there is some dispute there.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/27/speculation-that-teddy-bridgewater-will-miss-2017-is-off-the-mark/
Is there a consensus #1 pick? IF the Pats got the 1 overall is there a team willing to trade a slew of 2 and 3s if there is no consensus number 1?
As long as they do better than Pat Harlow, Jerome Henderson, and some mediocre veteran linebackers.
A better question might be, in the hypothetical universe in which Bill Belichick actually got the #1 pick, is there any chance at all he'd make a selection with it (given the new rookie contract structure = much better value), or would he auction it to the highest bidder for multiple first-round picks?
It could happen with Bill trading something for a future first round that turns into the #1. Unlikely for sure, but a lot more likley than him having the worst team in the league.
I would figure he would trade down at least a few spots unless there was a truly exceptional DL/LB/QB available. I don't think he makes a pick for any other position. The value to be had in trading down would probably exceed anything a single player can give you, especially outside those positions.
I would figure he would trade down at least a few spots unless there was a truly exceptional DL/LB/QB available. I don't think he makes a pick for any other position. The value to be had in trading down would probably exceed anything a single player can give you, especially outside those positions.
That's why I put if in capital letters. I dont think it would happen but there is chatter on here it is possible. The point being would BB even want the #1 as the return may not be as good compared to if there is a RG3, Julio Jones, Hershel Walker type that someone is willing to sell a draft for.
In a vacuum I'd say most likely trade down, but ultimately the answer is "whatever is best for the team", depending on circumstances at the given moment.
I think he may be confusing an opinion quote from a reporter a couple of pages back with actual chatter.
Trading down from #1 isn't necessarily that lucrative unless there's a big-time QB prospect. No one's giving them the RGIII deal to move up for Myles Garrett this year.
The previous pages people were debating it. Some pundits opinion somewhere. Nothing real.
Apparently, Cleveland is interested. And 98.5 reported this morning that there were rumblings about interest from SF as well because Shanahan apparently also likes JG.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/01/report-browns-have-real-interest-in-trading-for-jimmy-garoppolo/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/01/report-browns-have-real-interest-in-trading-for-jimmy-garoppolo/
If I am the San Francisco GM, I think I would rather sign Cousins and keep and use my draft picks. That team needs a lot of help. Cleveland, in comparisson, has a ton of draft capital where they can trade picks and still stockpile their roster through the draft.
Yeah, the best free agent option is likely going to be Tyrod Taylor. I don't see WAS letting Cousins go, even if they have to franchise him again. He's finally given them some stability at the position.
At the risk of being accused of hitting the sauce myself, I don't think that is crazy. JJ Watt, coming off injury, and coming up on 28 years old before next season starts. His cap hit is big $14/$15 million. But his dead cap number is pretty low ($6 M in 18 and $2 in 19). All in, I would say that he is probably worth less than that contract projects going forward. But it is entirely possible that he rebounds off this injury and is a beast again. So, in other words, I'm not sure how much value one should (or you are) ascribe to picking up JJ Watt's contract. It kind of looks like trading a first rounder for Jimmy G and transferring this pretty near net zero value asset. (But valuing football players contracts is not a strength of mine, so I look forward to learning if I am wrong here).
That said, BB will not want to pay a d-lineman that amount of money (and in particular not one with the risks Watt presents). And the value of Watt to Houston (where he is almost a god) probably exceeds his value in any other city by such a significant amount to make a trade very unlikely.
That said, BB will not want to pay a d-lineman that amount of money (and in particular not one with the risks Watt presents). And the value of Watt to Houston (where he is almost a god) probably exceeds his value in any other city by such a significant amount to make a trade very unlikely.
Sorry I wasnt clear.
I actually agree with you. I derided Salisbury because I am not even sure BB would do that deal. Ok he would probably do it (for the 1st rounder) but Watt is more of a throw in at this point considering all the factors you mention (age, salary, injury history). Granted a really high end throw in.....but a throw in none the less.
I actually agree with you. I derided Salisbury because I am not even sure BB would do that deal. Ok he would probably do it (for the 1st rounder) but Watt is more of a throw in at this point considering all the factors you mention (age, salary, injury history). Granted a really high end throw in.....but a throw in none the less.
He will undoubtedly be franchised again if he and the Redskins cannot reach a long term deal.
The question then becomes, does WA trade Cousins?
Still, there are more openings than QBs, even considering Romo.
If it was Watt vs. say the Browns or Niners giving up either the 1st or 2nd overall pick hypothetically BB would take the latter no doubt in my mind that would be the case.
Its health record dependent and draft pick dependent to some extent, but I dont agree. JJ Watt is one of the very best defensive players in the league. His contract is better than the Revis contract for an acquiring team. He turns 28 this year. The Pats arent adverse to acquiring high end talent on bargain contracts, that's what JJ Watt is.
They arent getting either for Jimmy G of course, so this is hypothetical.
They arent getting either for Jimmy G of course, so this is hypothetical.
I'm not familiar with Houston's cap situation, but with Brock's $ coming off the books after next season I don't think it would make sense for Houston to include Watt at all, even if you include the fact that he would be a "throw in". If HOU was really interested in getting Jimmy G I am sure they have some other assets that aren't making $15 mil that they could package. Also, it's Sean Salisbury.
I think paying Brock is a sunk cost at this point and if they're smart, they don't factor that in. Whether it's literally possible to do under the cap is a different question, but they clearly are a mistake and unless they want to stall the franchise for the term of that, they're going to have to bite the bullet at some point. All that being said, I don't see this trade happening, but they're going to have to make a choice on if Brock is a detriment or not and it appears he is.
Hell, that's worse than the "No. 1 overall pick for JG chatter."
Jesus H for Fucking Christ, people ... if the "source" for a "trade idea" or "rumor" is a piece of shit, don't repeat it here
Da Bears!
“@JasonLaCanfora: Bears want to trade for Garoppolo; Romo ‘s market taking shape. And more QB news - https://t.co/8YWtYT4QKi https://t.co/fwjWHf7o9V
The Chicago Bears will make a strong, concerted effort to acquire quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo from the New England Patriots , according to sources with knowledge of the situation. The Illinois native is far and away their top offseason priority.
Many teams view Garoppolo as the best option of all potential free-agent or trade targets, and the Bears will have competition. Teams like the Cleveland Browns , New York Jets and 49ers could provide opposition, but the Bears' intent and willingness to complete a trade could not be more serious. Quarterback is an acute need -- the Bears are moving on from Jay Cutler -- and jobs are on the line there after two poor seasons from the John Fox and Ryan Pace regime. The Bears have abundant draft picks they could trade -- including picks in the top three of each round -- and while rival executives do not believe the Patriots will land a first-round pick that high via trade, a package including multiple high second-round picks is quite possible. Furthermore, trading Garoppolo out of the AFC would appeal to the Patriots, who expect him to prosper elsewhere.
“@JasonLaCanfora: Bears want to trade for Garoppolo; Romo ‘s market taking shape. And more QB news - https://t.co/8YWtYT4QKi https://t.co/fwjWHf7o9V
The Chicago Bears will make a strong, concerted effort to acquire quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo from the New England Patriots , according to sources with knowledge of the situation. The Illinois native is far and away their top offseason priority.
Many teams view Garoppolo as the best option of all potential free-agent or trade targets, and the Bears will have competition. Teams like the Cleveland Browns , New York Jets and 49ers could provide opposition, but the Bears' intent and willingness to complete a trade could not be more serious. Quarterback is an acute need -- the Bears are moving on from Jay Cutler -- and jobs are on the line there after two poor seasons from the John Fox and Ryan Pace regime. The Bears have abundant draft picks they could trade -- including picks in the top three of each round -- and while rival executives do not believe the Patriots will land a first-round pick that high via trade, a package including multiple high second-round picks is quite possible. Furthermore, trading Garoppolo out of the AFC would appeal to the Patriots, who expect him to prosper elsewhere.
So "rival executives" have a pretty dim idea of how leverage works
1) Browns 2) Texans 3) Bears 4) Maybe SF and the Pats are going to settle for multiple 2nd round picks ? Please. With that many bidders and a 40 y/o QB BB and Caserio should just chuckle and hang up if there isn't a first rounder included.
And yeah the Bears or SF first rounders are very high. So if your them and you really want JG trade down to recoup some of excess value before trading a mid 1rst rounder plus for JG . Looking more and more like Sheftner's logical 1rst and change was dead on.
1) Browns 2) Texans 3) Bears 4) Maybe SF and the Pats are going to settle for multiple 2nd round picks ? Please. With that many bidders and a 40 y/o QB BB and Caserio should just chuckle and hang up if there isn't a first rounder included.
And yeah the Bears or SF first rounders are very high. So if your them and you really want JG trade down to recoup some of excess value before trading a mid 1rst rounder plus for JG . Looking more and more like Sheftner's logical 1rst and change was dead on.
If there really are that many interested teams (and not smokescreens), than yes I don't see how Pats don't end up with a first rounder.
IMO the Pats would not trade him to either the Jets or Bills, who both are in dire need of a QB, but I would also be hesitant to trade him to the Texans, who may be a QB away from being a real contender. But Cleveland seems developmentally that far away, and Chi and SF, would work fine. I think a 1 + 3-4ish (Bradford land) is a lock with this QB market.
I don't know that it much matters from the Pats' perspective.
If they are open to trading JG at all, they'll have a price point, and, sure, an active bidding market would help them once that threshhold is reached.
But the main thing here is risk aversion. If you're without an above-average QB for 10 years, you're MF'ed for 10 years -- at least by comparison to the last 16 years.
And it's tough. How long can Brady play at this level? Is JG a worthy successor? Brissett?
Five years ago, it's pretty easy. What can I get for JG? How does that compare to a 3rd round compensatory pick next spring? What's the value of having JG as insurance for a year?
Now it's more complicated.
If they are open to trading JG at all, they'll have a price point, and, sure, an active bidding market would help them once that threshhold is reached.
But the main thing here is risk aversion. If you're without an above-average QB for 10 years, you're MF'ed for 10 years -- at least by comparison to the last 16 years.
And it's tough. How long can Brady play at this level? Is JG a worthy successor? Brissett?
Five years ago, it's pretty easy. What can I get for JG? How does that compare to a 3rd round compensatory pick next spring? What's the value of having JG as insurance for a year?
Now it's more complicated.
There are more rumors from teams outside the AFC East but they did trade Bledsoe to the Bills. I don't see how trading Jimmy G would be any different if they got the right offer.