2017 Jimmy G: The Dilemma
- Thread starter bakahump
- Start date
FWIW, I don't have the transcript, but I watched the Dan Patrick Show today and he had Peter King on, who spoke very confidently that Jimmy G isn't going anywhere... pretty much no matter what the Pats are offered.
I am starting to think Jimmy will be the backup again next year, but only because the offers aren't good enough.
King is wrong on the no trade no matter what.
If (hypothetically) Cleveland offered both first round picks this year and one next year, I am fairly confident that BB would make the deal.
I don't get why these media people talk in absolutes.
The offers will be there, and will very likely be worth more than the one year insurance policy that Jimmy would provide in 2017. If they keep him it most likely means they are drawing the line on the end of Brady's reign, even if it is perhaps a season or two too early.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/03/browns_buzz_myles_garrett_at_n.html
Despite a report by ESPN that the Patriots won't trade Jimmy Garoppolo, I'm told that nothing has changed and that teams -- including the Browns -- will still try to land him.
One source told me he believes it might take as much as a No. 1 this year and No. 1 next year -- which I'm sure the Browns won't be willing to do.
But if New England will accept their No. 12 overall pick and maybe another later selection, I think the Browns would strongly consider that.
Despite a report by ESPN that the Patriots won't trade Jimmy Garoppolo, I'm told that nothing has changed and that teams -- including the Browns -- will still try to land him.
One source told me he believes it might take as much as a No. 1 this year and No. 1 next year -- which I'm sure the Browns won't be willing to do.
But if New England will accept their No. 12 overall pick and maybe another later selection, I think the Browns would strongly consider that.
I'm sticking to my contention that the trade will be JG + something from the Pats, for multiple picks. With "multiple picks" adding up to the equivalent of a top-10 pick, but not necessarily an actual top 10 pick.
I dont understand these teams. Have all the front end 1sts u want CLE. If im the GM and i can take 1/12 next years likely 10-15ish pick (assuming they land Jimmy) and turn that into Myles Garrett and Jimmy G im doing that 100 out of 100 times. These guys overthink it sometimes.
Bb would 1000% flip 12 into 24 and 47 and a future 4th
I don't think the bolded is anywhere close to accurate. The comparison isn't just as an insurance policy for 2017. It's that plus whatever a franchised JG will being in trade after 2017 (or the difference between trading him now and trading him while on a franchised contract). Trading a franchised Cassel wasn't the end of the world.
I think the *only* thing that's certain is that IF they trade him before 2017, then they think JB is an acceptable backup.
Is there any scenario where BB is looking to turn Jimmy G+ into Myles Garret? It would be unprecedented for Bill to move up like that, but by all accounts Garret is an unprecedented talent. The Pats also have an asset in Jimmy G, a QB that some teams might see (whether right or not) as their franchise QB, that puts them in a unique position. How much more than Jimmy would it take to get up to 1/1?
I can only dream do what BB and Patricia would be able to do with a guy like Myles G.
The Browns have four picks this year in the first two rounds.
First round: First pick.
First round: 12th pick.
Second round: First pick, 33rd overall.
Second round: 20th pick, 52nd overall (via trade with Titans in 2016)
If the Pats can get 33 or 52 this year, plus the Browns number one next year, is that something that Cleveland could stomach? They are still coming away with three players from the first two rounds this year and may be able to sell it to their fan base if they aren't giving up a one this year.
Truthfully, I'd even be okay with the Pats getting their third this year, #65, and their first next year.
First round: First pick.
First round: 12th pick.
Second round: First pick, 33rd overall.
Second round: 20th pick, 52nd overall (via trade with Titans in 2016)
If the Pats can get 33 or 52 this year, plus the Browns number one next year, is that something that Cleveland could stomach? They are still coming away with three players from the first two rounds this year and may be able to sell it to their fan base if they aren't giving up a one this year.
Truthfully, I'd even be okay with the Pats getting their third this year, #65, and their first next year.
Well played.
I was thinking that within the 4 years before he left there would be two more SB championships.
Ryan Hannable @RyanHannable 10m10 minutes ago
According to @MikeGarafolo, Patriots would need to get a first-round pick this year AND next year to trade Jimmy Garoppolo.
According to @MikeGarafolo, Patriots would need to get a first-round pick this year AND next year to trade Jimmy Garoppolo.
NFL Network's Mike Garofolo suggested the Patriots are seeking two first-round picks in exchange for Jimmy Garoppolo.
The Boston Herald previously suggested New England's asking price was a first- and second-rounder. Citing "someone somewhat connected to the situation," Garofolo speculated the actual cost would be a first-round pick in 2017 and another first-rounder in 2018. The Patriots have a ton of leverage in trade talks, and seem more than willing to keep Garoppolo if nobody bites.
That leads me to believe that CLE, SF and CHI can offer their top of the 2nd round pick this year (33, 34, 35, respectively) and a high 2nd next year.
If I'm CLE, I offer the #33 and the better pick of their two 2nd rounders in 2018 (CLE/PHI) for Jimmy G. Alternatively, I start looking to trade down from #12 for 1st rounders this year and next.
If I'm CLE, I offer the #33 and the better pick of their two 2nd rounders in 2018 (CLE/PHI) for Jimmy G. Alternatively, I start looking to trade down from #12 for 1st rounders this year and next.
A first round pick this year and a first round pick next year lead you to believe those teams could offer 2 2nd round picks? Not sure I'm buying it. BTW - I wouldn't trade him for 2 2nd rounders, so I'm biased.
The issue with this is that as a 2nd round pick you only get to control the player for 4 years instead of 5. The 33rd pick is at a major disadvantage to the #32 pick. I don't think a couple of high 2nd rounders gets it done.
Cassel was coming off playing basically a full season. Garappolo could sit the whole year. Situations are different and I'm not sure there would be a ton of interest in Garappolo at that point.
I'm not even completely sure the Pats would tag him at $24M or whatever the tag ends up being.
This maybe belongs more in the "Celebrating what is" thread, but I'm just so grateful that I trust BB to make the right decision. I started out really excited expecting to see Jimmy G. traded for a 1st, then subsequently really excited to have him carry a clipboard for another year when the rumors flowed that way, to just being really excited that whatever decision is made, it'll be very strategic and smart.
Strategic and smart isn't always the same thing as "right", but that's the way to bet.
Strategic and smart isn't always the same thing as "right", but that's the way to bet.
Yes, a report that NE wants two first round picks leads me to believe that this is positioning for a negotiation with CLE or SF (assuming CHI will sign Glennon as the whispers are getting louder), not that two first round picks is a showstopper.
Way back in this thread, I postulated that NE would need to get approx. 970 draft points (equivalent to (1) #18 and a mid-4th rounder or (2) #33 and #52) from CLE, and nothing has changed my view.
I think this talk of two 1st rounders is wishcasting. If CLE offered #12, I would accept it in a cocaine heartbeat, but I don't think that's happening.
True, but JG has basically sat for 4 years (minus 1.5 games), and teams seem to be ready to throw some serious return NE's way. They tagged Cassel at $15M before trading him.
The larger points are that NE has several options and (responding to a particular post) that keeping him this year is not necessarily a window on what they think of Brady.
If the fifth year is that important to you, you can trade up a couple spots. The 49ers traded up from 37 to 28 for a 4th and a 6th. A couple years before that, the Vikings traded up from 40 to 32 for a 4th.
Schefter (on Insiders) suggests that the Browns might be out on trading for a QB if Tyrod Taylor becomes a free agent. Buffalo has to decide on Taylor by Saturday, or a $27.5M guarantee becomes official; meanwhile, Taylor's former QB coach is now in that spot in Cleveland.
I agree with your larger point that it doesn't necessarily a reflection on Brady.
Just wanted to point out while a lot of people seem to assume the Pats could just tag and trade Garappolo next year, I think that's far from 100% certainty some, not necessarily you, seem to think it is.
First we don't really know what teams are offering. Maybe just a 2nd round pick. Maybe more, maybe less. Next year we have even less certainty about what the market might be.
While there seems to be a buzz around Jimmy this off-season. That could change next year.
Last year it was Osweiler.
Maybe some other back up QB has a good 1/4 or 1/2 season and/or a couple college QBs establish themselves at the top of next year's draft. Then the buzz might be about them.
Jets, Bills and 49ers reportedly out on Mike Glennon, leaving him to the Bears. Which would take away one attractive Jimmy G. trade partner.
http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-bears/bears-competition-qb-mike-glennon-disappearing
http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-bears/bears-competition-qb-mike-glennon-disappearing
Potentially: Glennon to Bears, Cousins to SF, Taylor to Cleve ... yep, JG is staying
All true. And even if they could trade him next year, his trade value could easily be decreased by other teams' knowledge that there's no way in hell NE wants to keep a $20M+ backup. So its quite possible that JG's trade value will never be higher. But as someone said above, I trust BB to make the assessment as to whether they can/should/will go into the season with JB as #2.
Of course, all of this assumes, probably correctly, that JG isn't willing to take a modest pay raise to stick around -- which would also make him even more desirable to other teams and increase his value in trade. Round and round we go.
Maybe BB plans on starting JG for the first few games of the season. That seemed to work out ok.
TB12 always starts the seasons flat, no? A mix of TB rustiness and O-line coordination. It just makes sense to give the aging TB a little extra rest so he's fresh late in the season.
The next step, of course, is playing the matchups.
Look for BB to draft a lefty specialist in the 3rd or 4th round.
TB12 always starts the seasons flat, no? A mix of TB rustiness and O-line coordination. It just makes sense to give the aging TB a little extra rest so he's fresh late in the season.
The next step, of course, is playing the matchups.
Look for BB to draft a lefty specialist in the 3rd or 4th round.
TB12 doesn't always start out rusty. He threw for 500 yards in September 2011.
He was kind of bad in the beginning of 2014 but that is the last time I remember him being really flat to start.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201109120mia.htm
In the Patriots FA thread I almost understand the "tender" concept vis a vis Malcolm Butler. Is a tender not an option here next season where someone signing him after the season has to give the Patriots a first round pick if they don't match the offer?
Tender is for Restricted Free Agents. Garappolo will be a UFA so tender is not an option. Only Franchise (or transition) tag.
I could definitely see a Cousins to SF for #34 pick and a conditional 2018 2nd rounder that can increase to a 1st rounder under certain conditions, then Jimmy G to WAS for #34 and #49.
That would give NE six of the top 103 picks in a deep draft (32, 34, 49, 64, 96, 103).
I don't know, man.
He didn't throw a single touchdown pass in the first four games of last season.
It was like he didn't even bother to show up, and then suddenly in game 5 it all clicked.
Who knows if it's what BB is looking for, but this report suggests the patriots could be making progress.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/07/report-browns-would-trade-12th-overall-pick-for-jimmy-garoppolo/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/07/report-browns-would-trade-12th-overall-pick-for-jimmy-garoppolo/
OK, and the diff is that Garappolo had a 4 year initial contract and Butler only had a 3 year deal, is that right?
Not sure about that. Cleveland has until the draft to make a decision on Jimmy vs. draft QBs.
Tyrod Taylor has a bonus due on March 11th (Saturday). We should know if he's cut/restructuring by then. That will likely go a long way towards taking off another option for Cleveland (and if he'd want to sign there).
Tomorrow at 4:00p (Eastern) is a mega deadline for all sorts of stuff.
All league deadlines are here
http://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/2017-important-nfl-dates/
I imagine that nothing will happen re JG until after then at the earliest
That was probably true for a guy like Mike Glennon who had a limited market and wasn't anyone's first choice, but if anything, I think the opposite is true for JG.
If the Browns (for example) are likely to jump on Tyrod Taylor if the Bills cut him, then they aren't going to offer a king's ransom now for JG. If the Bills cut Taylor and the Browns sign him, the only thing that will have changed is our perception. On the other hand, if the Browns are expecting Taylor to become available and the Bills decide to keep him, that will increase their interest in JG.