2017-18 NBA Regular Season Game/Observation Thread

Sam Ray Not

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We have these same conversations every year though. Remember post-deadline last winter when the Cavs were left for dead while implementing 5 new players into their rotation? Their regular season is essentially their pre-season to prepare for the playoffs. Net rating in the regular season for veteran teams with little motivation is worthless as we saw with them last season.
It’s not the be all and end all, but it’s not “worthless” as a predictor, either. Regular season net rating would have predicted the majority of past champions. And it would have done so better than W-L — for example, it would have indicated that the 2015-16 Warrior team that was 73-9 was weaker than the 2016-17 team that went 67-15, while the 2015-16 Cavs were significantly better than the 2016-17 version.

Yeah, it has always underrated the LeBron Cavs, who do seem to have a playoff “switch.” But the Cavs’ shortfall in net rating has never been nearly as big as it is now (+2.6 to the Celtics’ +5.2 and the Raptors’ +7.8). The 2016 championship team was #1 in the East by far in net rating.

I mean, it always seems unlikely that the incumbent, more playoff-tested team will fall ... until they do. Jordan’s Bulls, for example, were always the Pistons’ doormats ... until they weren’t. One of the indicators for when the worm is about to turn is net rating.

Not saying playoff experience and top-level star power aren’t big advantages come playoff time ... just saying I think the chances of another Cavs-Warriors finals are a lot farther from 100% than the average pundit would have you believe. They may be closer than a pure statistical indicator like 538 would suggest ... but then 538 currently has the chances of a Cavs-Warriors final at 21%. Reality is probably somewhere between those poles — maybe 50-50?
 
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bowiac

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I agree that the regular season is largely meaningless for the Cavs, and we shouldn't read too much into their adjusted net rating. They're at around +2 points/100 right now, which is close to where they were last year. They have played as approximately a +10 team in the playoffs with LeBron, and I think it's reasonable to expect that to continue, especially as they integrate IT2.

The reason to be "concerned" with the Cavs isn't their own net rating, it's the net rating of the competition. Last year's Celtics team had an adjusted net rating of about +2, which gave them about a 22% chance in a playoff series against the Cavs (if the Cavs "true talent" is treated as +10). This year however, Boston is at around +5, and Toronto is at around +7. The Cavs project to win 65% of the time vs. the Celtics in that case, and 54% of the time vs. Raptors.

The Cavs are probably as good as ever, but the competition in the East is better than in past years.
 

lovegtm

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How do people feel about how the Cs match up against the Raps? Toronto has been killing it net rating-wise, and I definitely think they're for real in terms of being a good team. At the same time, I think the Celtics could really cause them a lot of problems defensively, since they have the length/athleticism to really smother a lot of what Toronto likes to do.

Obviously the Celtics defense is a positive in any matchup, but in Toronto's case, they don't really have a big who's good enough to exploit the Celtics, and their stars have consistently had major playoff struggles when other teams can optimize, game-plan, and dial in.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Um Cavs are down 30. LBJ is playing.
102-67 Wolves through 3.

Wolves have not had anomalous luck with threes or anything, either: 9-23 (39.1%).

But who knew that adding one of the worst defenders in the league to the league’s #28 ranked defense could cause problems? If a team that was elite on defense but #28 ranked on offense added, say, Andre Roberson to their starting lineup, would everyone be excited about their championship potential?
 

Ed Hillel

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IT having a brutal game on both ends, 3/11 with 3 turnovers and his defense is...not good.
 

Sprowl

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The Nets take the Raptors to overtime. Brooklyn has become fun to watch for a bad team, rather like the Celtics in the Evan Turner era.
 

Sam Ray Not

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At what point does Spencer Dinwiddie get his due as a borderline star? He’s a 6-6 PG who has a good game pretty much every time I look. He’s carrying a team missing FIVE of its top eight rotation players from opening day (Lin, Russell, Mozgov, Carroll, Booker).
 

Sprowl

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At what point does Spencer Dinwiddie get his due as a borderline star? He’s a 6-6 PG who has a good game pretty much every time I look. He’s carrying a team missing FIVE of its top eight rotation players from opening day (Lin, Russell, Mozgov, Carroll, Booker).
He also leads the NBA in Assist-to-Turnover ratio at 4.46, which isn't easy to do when your teammates can't shoot. He doesn't give the ball away.
 

Sprowl

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Dinwiddie runs out of magic, flipping the last gasp scoop shot over the backboard. Tronna keeps on winning.
 

Ed Hillel

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Just looking now, I wonder if he broke his tailbone? Could also be a nasty contusion, those are no joke.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I get that the regular season is just a tuneup for Cleveland, but there has to be a chance that their defense really is horrible, especially with IT eventually playing 30+ mpg.
 

Montana Fan

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The Nets take the Raptors to overtime. Brooklyn has become fun to watch for a bad team, rather like the Celtics in the Evan Turner era.
This is a good description. Unfortunately for the Nets they don't have the assets to build on that Danny had. It's going to be a longer haul but I like their path and am pulling for them. Now, that is.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I get that the regular season is just a tuneup for Cleveland, but there has to be a chance that their defense really is horrible, especially with IT eventually playing 30+ mpg.
Last season, opponents topped 120 points in 13 games with 3 of those over 130. Last night, Game 39 for Cleveland was only the 4th time over 120 with nobody reaching 130.

Isaiah did nearly kill Andrew Wiggins tonight with his "defense" earning him an ejection so there's that.
 

Ed Hillel

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Cleveland looks too old to me. I don’t see them sustaining motor in the second halves deep into the playoffs.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Damn that Lowry injury looks ugly. Looked like he landed not on his tailbone but the small of his back. Meanwhile DeMar DeRozan continues to play out of his mind with 35 on a DeRozan-esque 14-30 shooting night. Only 1-4 from deep but the guy can get buckets in a variety of ways. He really does seem to be making a bit of a leap.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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As was mentioned upthread by numerous posters, if the MVP voting closed today, LeBron would have to get serious consideration as the top pick with Harden on the follow (your results may differ). That said, if first name Stephen, last name Curry keeps playing like he has since returning from his ankle injury, he is going to make a push despite missing 11 games. Curry scored 32 points on 9-17 shooting including 5-10 from deep along with nine assists and two steals (he did have six turnovers) en route to Golden State beating Denver 124-114.

As a side note, Denver is one scorer away from being a true contender. It will be fascinating to see who Connelly and Karnisovas target at the deadline - they can conceivably move Mudiay and/or Manimal as well as some future picks depending on who is available. However with a core of Jokic, Harris, Murray, Lyles and Millsap when he is ready to return, this team has some guys who can ball. Adding another legit scorer to the team makes them downright scary.
 

Sam Ray Not

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They're calling Lowry's injury an "acute back spasm," which doesn't sound too bad, but we'll see. Reevaluation tomorrow. Raps have home games coming up against the Cavs (Thurs) and Warriors (Sat), and I'm sure were looking forward to testing out how real their gaudy net rating is. If just a bad bruise and spasms, maybe he gets back sooner than later, but obviously you never want to rush things in January, particular with Lowry, who hasn't always been the most durable guy.
 

Sam Ray Not

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first name Stephen, last name Curry...
Argh, damn you for getting that stupid jingle stuck in my head again!

One progression in Steph's game this season is how often he's been getting himself to the line — career-high 7.3 fta per 36, or significantly more than LeBron (5.8). 9 for 10 at the stripe tonight. Mostly a good development in terms of the efficiency and diversity of his game, and he's bulked up to withstand it, but I still cringe at the amount of beating he takes. Tonight he got laid out on a breakaway layup by a flying Malik Beasley, mildly sprained his knee, and went to the locker room to get taped.

Another tough battle by the scrappy Nuggets, who always seem to play the Ws tight. Warriors 33-8 at the halfway mark.
 

Tony C

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At what point does Spencer Dinwiddie get his due as a borderline star? He’s a 6-6 PG who has a good game pretty much every time I look. He’s carrying a team missing FIVE of its top eight rotation players from opening day (Lin, Russell, Mozgov, Carroll, Booker).
Are there more injuries than usual this season? Sure seems some teams are particularly hard hit...the Clippers as well. Btw, anyone see that DeA Jordan is over 60% from the line for the season? Hacking him at the end of tonight's game was really dumb.
 

Koufax

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The Nets take the Raptors to overtime. Brooklyn has become fun to watch for a bad team, rather like the Celtics in the Evan Turner era.
What, no love for the Ricky Davis era? To me, that's the gold standard of fun-to-watch but awful Celtics basketball.