JayMags71 said:
I can't recall if there is definitive proof of that or not, but it seems likely. Gulati had taken a pass at JK twice already, in 2006 and 2010, but had to settle for Bob Bradley instead both times.
2015 Gold Cup
- Thread starter DJnVa
- Start date
I can't recall if there is definitive proof of that or not, but it seems likely. Gulati had taken a pass at JK twice already, in 2006 and 2010, but had to settle for Bob Bradley instead both times.
Bradley also wasn't really fired for any one tournament. He was fired because USSF felt the system had plateaued, and that Bradley wasn't doing much for the overall development of the US as a growing soccer nation. I don't know that Jurgen is any better of a manager than Bradley, but he has real advantages. He attracts dual nationals in a way Bradley couldn't, and he is willing/able to test the team with a much better schedule of friendlies. He also has a willingness and the clout to try and force his philosphy of skills training down the ranks. Jurgen might need to be replaced after 2018 by a better tactician, but what he's done for the world standing of the US is something Bradley could never have done.
https://twitter.com/BrianStraus/status/624082504262250496
They're a bit upset.
In fun news.....
Panama and Mexico are playing Thursday in the Pan-Am games.
They're a bit upset.
In fun news.....
Panama and Mexico are playing Thursday in the Pan-Am games.
DrewDawg said:
Unclear as of yet. If it's USA vs. Mexico, the speculation is that it will be in the Rose Bowl. It's fairly bush league to have a one-off game instead of a fairer home-and-home. However, LA would be pretty much a neutral site, if not pro-Mexico.
If Jamaica wins, they'll be screwed over by the location, no doubt.
Zososoxfan said:
That may be so but it's probably because it's not run by the same buffoons who run SportsCenter.
DrewDawg said:
There was a lot of chirping about Miguel Herrera getting the axe after last night's debacle, too. That would be quite the interesting development if both USA and Mexico canned their managers.
That guy is an idiot, and the article is terrible.DrewDawg said:
He points out tactical issues being a problem vs. Jamaica (none of which led to the loss), then ignores that the US lost because of terrible set piece defending (not mentioned) and that they created an insane amount of chances. He also notes how Klinsman's work has built a great foundation and there are young players coming up... but then Klinsman should be fired because the performance in the Gold Cup is more important than the future?
His one good argument is the one everyone made, that they needed a backup to Beckerman. To me that is more an indication that Jurgen thought getting Danny Williams pre-season with his club team was more valuable long term than a better backup DM in the Gold Cup, than that Jurgen didn't realize he wasn't bringing one.
I think the idea of firing Klinsmann right now is preposterous and I doubt there's even a double digit percentage chance it happens. That article is incredibly over the top. I don't think JK is even close to perfect but overreacting to a single loss against a team in a tournament format would be beyond stupid. USA soccer has never had more promise than it has right now and JK is part of the reason why.
On last night's penalty, is there maybe some hint of intent by the Panama player to fall on the ball? I really really really hate that call, it's just so late in the match and there's nothing appropriate about a PK in that situation but I might at least feel marginally better if I thought the Panama player made a boneheaded play, especially given that players have learned this technique of falling on the ball and grabbing it to ensure a foul call. Having that hilariously backfire would be great.
On last night's penalty, is there maybe some hint of intent by the Panama player to fall on the ball? I really really really hate that call, it's just so late in the match and there's nothing appropriate about a PK in that situation but I might at least feel marginally better if I thought the Panama player made a boneheaded play, especially given that players have learned this technique of falling on the ball and grabbing it to ensure a foul call. Having that hilariously backfire would be great.
Cellar-Door said:
I think the final step the USA needs to make is to start developing real midfielders. As it stands we've got Bradley and nobody else who can really play as a true box to box, control the ball and dictate play midfielder. I love Bradley for being what he is but the fact that he's "special" in the US Is probably our final hurdle to being a team who isn't susceptible to losing any individual CONCACAF match that gets spread open.
The article is terrible for a bunch of reasons, but when a team is playing open and getting countered there aren't many DMs who can make up for that. As the US plays a more possession oriented style, the players will need to be able to learn to press and move as more of a unit than they do today and there will be tremendous pressure on midfielders to play that role as 2 way players. If there were any signs in the earlier stages of this tournament that there was a potential issue, to me it was the alarming amount of times that Bradley would be caught upfield and none of his teammates were really capable of falling into the space (and too many were walking back). It takes a tremendous amount of discipline and stamina to fight to hold shape as a match progresses but IMO if we can develop more true CMs and have more on the pitch who can interchange a bit more we'll be able to withstand these types of matches better.
edit: this last point is super tangential, though. The problem against Jamaica, as stated, was set piece defense.
Without seeing the play again, i assumed thats what he might have been doing on when i saw it live. But even then, he's falling, body traps the balls and then 2 seconds later the keeper is over to pick it up.teddykgb said:
Unfortunately, ive seen way too many concacaf games over the years so the penalty didnt even surprise me. Mexico is always getting the benefit of the doubt against central america teams (which is why i loved the crying over their world cup loss). The only thing that surprised me was how amateurish it was. It reminded when i watched the wwf as a kid and a wrestler would blow a spot but his opponent would still have to sell it because they had a script to follow.
Oh I agree there are criticisms to be made of Klinsman. I don't think the gameplan against Jamaica was poor though. They dominated until the two quick set-piece goals. Then they had to play more open chasing a 2 goal deficit, but even then they outplayed Jamaica and created far more chances than they surrendered.teddykgb said:
teddykgb said:
That was my initial reaction when the play happened live. I couldn't fathom why he would possibly think to do that but I have seen some monumentally stupid decisions made by players in the heat of the moment. The replay looks like he might see the ball as he's falling and makes no effort to avoid it - only twisting away from it after he's landed on it - but it's probably impossible to say whether he actually saw the ball or not. I can only guess that Geiger saw what I initially saw but the replay suggests my initial reaction was wrong.
Cellar-Door said:
Serbia, more likely. The Croats are fairly placid compared to their neighbours.
Nah, Croatia's FA is all messed up, and they have a group of pro-facists that come to the games and the FA doesn't try and prevent them.cjdmadcow said:
So far in 2015, they had to play closed, then lost points because someone mowed the grass in a swastika pattern for TV in the closed match.
Thousands and thousands of memes floating around today. It is amazing how we were robbed last night. Panama´s commentators were screaming that if CONCACAF so much wanted to have Mexico and/or USA for the finals, why play the Cup? Bolillo Gomez was out and out upset screaming that they were robbed openly.
ESPN's latin channel, which covers the "Tri" heavily were all saying that it wasn't a penalty and it was robbery.
Sorry Bosoxen, it wasn't really Mexico but I cannot tell how upset I am right now. Panama always loses in the last minute, always blows it. In the 2014 elimination match, Costa Rica had defeated Mexico and Panama was beating the US until they allowed an equalizing goal in the last minute. But that was soccer, that was a play in the field. This? This was unbeleivable.
BTW even Herrera admitted that it was no penalty, buy would not give up the goal.
ESPN's latin channel, which covers the "Tri" heavily were all saying that it wasn't a penalty and it was robbery.
Sorry Bosoxen, it wasn't really Mexico but I cannot tell how upset I am right now. Panama always loses in the last minute, always blows it. In the 2014 elimination match, Costa Rica had defeated Mexico and Panama was beating the US until they allowed an equalizing goal in the last minute. But that was soccer, that was a play in the field. This? This was unbeleivable.
BTW even Herrera admitted that it was no penalty, buy would not give up the goal.
trekfan55 said:
You really can't expect a team to just pass the ball to the keeper there, can you? I know soccer has its own unique notions of fair play and there's plenty of evidence on YouTube to back it up, but I can't get with the idea that it somehow falls on the beneficiaries of terrible calls to be the arbiters of justice. Just get a replay challenge system and be done with it.
trekfan55 said:
You don't have to apologize to me. You're the one that got hosed (and I empathize with your plight). It's the "lol Mexico lost in the World Cup" shit said by your compatriot that will get my dander up.
Turrable said:
Right. I mean, ignoring the fact that there's now way Herrera was going to give up that goal (his ass is on the line, after all), Panama had a chance to make a strong statement by walking off the field. I was really hoping they would because that's the only way CONCACAF is going to take notice - taking a picture of the team with a banner calling them thieves is only going to go so far. I especially don't think that putting the onus on the benefiting team to make a statement for you is the way to make that stand.
I mean, I get why they didn't walk. They are professionals and have a job to do - and frankly still could have won despite that - so I don't judge them for not doing so.
For what it's worth, Guardado did say he considered missing the shot on purpose but, in the end, he would personally need to answer for that. It's not fair to put that on his head, since it's not like the penalty was gained by flopping in the penalty box, ala Peralta just a few days before. I wouldn't expect the guy, or any player for that matter, to fall on the sword for the referee's mistake.
Moreover, CONCACAF (like all of these federations) are so corrupt and tone-deaf, they would have simply imposed a Draconian punishment on Panama's team/federation/both, and considered the matter closed.Bosoxen said:
JayMags71 said:
That was the crux of the matter. As heavily as the players felt like walking off the field, they thought about their careers and with the qualifying rounds starting, their possible spot in them.
Which of my compatriots did that Bosoxen? If it was a team member, I can chalk it up to the heat of the moment, they were pissed.
And yeah, no way would Herrera give up that goal, I said it myself. But it was big of him to freely admit that it wasn't a penalty. As for Guardado, well at the end of the day he is playing for Mexico and he was given a gift. We saw a few examples of people giving up goals, but those are the few, the exceptions really.
trekfan55 said:
ElUno did yesterday. Though, I will freely admit that I may be mistaken that he's from Panama. I may have misinterpreted his post and he's just a jaded fan of another CONCACAF team (a category of fan which I'm sure at this point has reached Legion status).
It's CONCACAF fine day:
Suspension for the Panama keeper for pushing an assistant ref post-match.
Fine for Panama.
Fine for Michael Bradley (apparently for saying the Gold Cup is a ridiculous tournament that should be organized better).
Fine for Herrerra. (likely for saying the ref made a bad call on the penalty vs. Panama).
Suspension for the Panama keeper for pushing an assistant ref post-match.
Fine for Panama.
Fine for Michael Bradley (apparently for saying the Gold Cup is a ridiculous tournament that should be organized better).
Fine for Herrerra. (likely for saying the ref made a bad call on the penalty vs. Panama).
So CONCACAF ExCo member (and Panamanian FA President) Pedro Chaluja has publicly said that "we" believe the match was fixed by interested 3rd parties.
http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/07/24/mexico-panama-gold-cup-concacaf-controversy-corruption-referees-fifa-scandal
http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/07/24/mexico-panama-gold-cup-concacaf-controversy-corruption-referees-fifa-scandal
https://twitter.com/ussoccer/status/625015540877262848
Ream at left back, Corona at DM, Fabian in the midfield.
DMB is expected to make his final USMNT appearance in the second half.
Ream at left back, Corona at DM, Fabian in the midfield.
DMB is expected to make his final USMNT appearance in the second half.
And there's the inevitable goal against. 1 on 3, and it takes one touch to get a completely open shot off.
Ugh.
Ugh.
trekfan55 said:
Panama's lead is totally deserved. US midfield play is lacking and disorganized, as it has been for much of the tournament.
That was about as pathetic an attempt at defending as you'll ever see. USA playing at half speed, I don't particularly care about the outcome and they don't seem to either
seeeeee laaaa peeeerdiiiiiooooooo
should be 2-0 Panama - Roman Torres wide on the volley from close range.
should be 2-0 Panama - Roman Torres wide on the volley from close range.
I'm really hoping we see some combination of Brooks/Gonzo/Besler in the back for the Confed Cup play-in game.
Chandler with an amazingly stupid step into midfield to create an opportunity for panama. Yedlin did well to affect the play at all.
