I thought mgoblog absolutely crushed it with this post
http://mgoblog.com/content/getting-right-history
http://mgoblog.com/content/getting-right-history
2014 Michigan Football: Dammit Jim, we need a Harbaugh. And a miracle worker.
- Thread starter WayBackVazquez
- Start date
Official: Brady Hoke out as UM's football coach. Best of luck to Brady in future endeavors, great guy, but couldn't get it done for UM.
Not sure who it will be but I am inclined to think that it won't be Harbaugh. Lot depends on who the new AD is. Once they get that role filled, then you can look at the AD's ties to various programs/coaches around the country. I would think that since Michigan is a destination job, the candidate would be someone who comes from a Power 5 conference, has ties at some level to the Midwest/Big Ten area, has turned a program around that had been dormant for a while and is a winner. Some early thoughts:
Dan Mullen-HC at Miss State (was QB coach at Bowling Green);
Paul Chryst-HC at Pitt (former OC at Wisconsin)
Gary Pinkel-HC at Mizzou (Kent St alum, former HC at Toledo .633 winning pct. at Mizzou)
Kevin Sumlin (HC at A&M, former Player-Purdue)
Non Midwest ties:
David Cutcliffe (HC at Duke....turned doormat to contender...longshot)
David Shaw (HC at Stanford)
Mark Richt (HC at Georgia....738 winning pct at UGA)
.....and the longest of shots, but weirder things have happened.....Brian Kelly, HC at ND. Former HC at Central Michigan and Cincy....winner everywhere he goes.
Dan Mullen-HC at Miss State (was QB coach at Bowling Green);
Paul Chryst-HC at Pitt (former OC at Wisconsin)
Gary Pinkel-HC at Mizzou (Kent St alum, former HC at Toledo .633 winning pct. at Mizzou)
Kevin Sumlin (HC at A&M, former Player-Purdue)
Non Midwest ties:
David Cutcliffe (HC at Duke....turned doormat to contender...longshot)
David Shaw (HC at Stanford)
Mark Richt (HC at Georgia....738 winning pct at UGA)
.....and the longest of shots, but weirder things have happened.....Brian Kelly, HC at ND. Former HC at Central Michigan and Cincy....winner everywhere he goes.
Saw a tweet from Tom Van Haaren indicating that Mattison had cleaned out his desk prior to the 3pm coach/team meeting.
I know there was some sentiment towards potentially retaining him, but it looks (preliminarily) like Matty is out the door as well. He was ferociously loyal to Hoke.
I'm skeptical of little Harbaugh as the next coach (although I'd like to see it). Don't care for his older brother, either. I wouldn't mind Miles, but I think there is a lot of divided opinion on him from boosters and the Michigan football mafia.
Ultimately I think the next coach will be a UMichigan outsider. No thanks on Richt... I'm dispassionate about the others on your list, bernie.
I know there was some sentiment towards potentially retaining him, but it looks (preliminarily) like Matty is out the door as well. He was ferociously loyal to Hoke.
I'm skeptical of little Harbaugh as the next coach (although I'd like to see it). Don't care for his older brother, either. I wouldn't mind Miles, but I think there is a lot of divided opinion on him from boosters and the Michigan football mafia.
Ultimately I think the next coach will be a UMichigan outsider. No thanks on Richt... I'm dispassionate about the others on your list, bernie.
dcmissle said:
I haven't understood why Brian Billick is never considered for college coaching ranks. He's not that old (60); great coach; and his high energy personality would seem to translate well to college.
Bert Breer was on 98.5 with Gresh and Zo today and they were talking about this (in the context of "would McDaniels potentially be a candidate at Michigan") and he said one name to look for is Greg Schiano. Apparently he was ofefred and turned it down when rich Rod was hired and actually came back to them a few days later but Michigan was "too far down the road with RR." Breer said that Schiano still has allies at MU.
No thank you. Schiano is an idiot. It would be a terrible hire for UM. If neither of the Harbaughs are available, they should head down to Arkansas with the Brinks truck and give Bielema whatever he wants. He's done a great job in Fayetteville against tough SEC competition and he's a proven winner in the Big 10. And he's young. Michigan would be a big step up as well -- Arkansas is never going to be a major destination in the SEC but Michigan has been and can be once again tops in the Big 10.
I don't want a coach who teaches players to hit on kneel-down plays. Also, it would be nice to find someone who ideally would want to stay here 15-20 years.
steveluck7 said:
... and the NE Patriots roster is full of Wolverines. Not a bad thing as we've learned.
What is MU?
I don't want Bert. He can coach, but he has certain vices that I don't really want blowing up in our faces. We don't need another PR nightmare.
Yeah, the only reason I'd get excited about Schiano is the prospect of Wolverines getting drafted by the Patriots. I don't think he can outcoach Meyer. I don't think he can win us the B1G.
I don't want Bert. He can coach, but he has certain vices that I don't really want blowing up in our faces. We don't need another PR nightmare.
Yeah, the only reason I'd get excited about Schiano is the prospect of Wolverines getting drafted by the Patriots. I don't think he can outcoach Meyer. I don't think he can win us the B1G.
MU is presumably Michigan State (Moo U)
My pet peeve used to be when people would call it "UMich" or "UMichigan" like it was UConn or UMass. I never heard anybody say "UMich" when I was growing up in Michigan and nobody ever said "UMich" in the late 80s/early 90s when I was a student there. It was always either "Michigan" or "U of M" or -- in written form only -- "UM". So when I came out here after college and started hearing people call it "UMich", usually people from the East Coast who didn't go there, it was like fingernails on a chalkboard. But I guess when email became a widespread thing ("umich.edu"), people in A2 actually started saying "UMich" as well?
Anyway, get off my lawn.
My pet peeve used to be when people would call it "UMich" or "UMichigan" like it was UConn or UMass. I never heard anybody say "UMich" when I was growing up in Michigan and nobody ever said "UMich" in the late 80s/early 90s when I was a student there. It was always either "Michigan" or "U of M" or -- in written form only -- "UM". So when I came out here after college and started hearing people call it "UMich", usually people from the East Coast who didn't go there, it was like fingernails on a chalkboard. But I guess when email became a widespread thing ("umich.edu"), people in A2 actually started saying "UMich" as well?
Anyway, get off my lawn.
I remember when Northwestern's web and email addresses were all nwu.edu. Around 2004, when they admitted this internet thing might be around for awhile and they didn't want people start calling NU NWU, they had to go through the massive headache of changing everything over.
Is there broadly a consensus here that Harbaugh should be the first choice, then Mullen, then panic?
I personally would put Miles up there too, but I don't think it would be considered "consensus." At the same time, I don't think those that don't like him would consider him a "panic" coaching candidate given the drop off between him and what's left out there.
Harbaugh is far and away the one for me.
Harbaugh is far and away the one for me.
bowiac said:
I would go after Gary Pinkel at Missouri. He comes from the Midwest, coached at Toledo in the 90's (where he won 1 MAC title and 3 MAC East titles) and has been at a Power 5 school for 13 years, winning the SEC East the last two. He has a 112-65 record at Mizzou and is 6-4 in bowls. He is 62 so no spring chicken but he clearly has the pedigree for the job and I think he would turn the program around. Figure he is a 5 year commitment and then once the program is back and heading in the right direction, you go out and make the big splash hire.
I'd be thrilled with either Harbaugh, but beyond that there are several guys that I would be okay with. I don't particular prefer Mullen to Graham or Richt, for example.
Agree with WBV, not a fan of Mullen particularly. Wouldn't be upset with him, but he's a step back from Harbaugh for sure, and likely Miles. If Stoops is available, he would be a huge get. I'm still a big fan of Graham, but I think he's probably a long shot because of RR connections. I really don't see why people are touting Tom Herman. No thanks.
Edit: After rereading this, I feel obligated to share. It's an Mgoblog user's analysis of Todd Graham. This guy should be co-plan B with Les Miles, after Plan A Harbaugh. If someone other than these 3 (or another great coach that we can't assume is willing to come - e.g. Patterson, Stoops) is hired, it will be a miss IMHO. http://mgoblog.com/diaries/coaching-candidate-todd-graham-similar-hc-resume-sumlin-not-cuddly
Edit: After rereading this, I feel obligated to share. It's an Mgoblog user's analysis of Todd Graham. This guy should be co-plan B with Les Miles, after Plan A Harbaugh. If someone other than these 3 (or another great coach that we can't assume is willing to come - e.g. Patterson, Stoops) is hired, it will be a miss IMHO. http://mgoblog.com/diaries/coaching-candidate-todd-graham-similar-hc-resume-sumlin-not-cuddly
Miles is a very unattractive candidate to me. So many reasons:Zososoxfan said:
- doesn't run a clean program (over-signings, doesn't discipline players who deserve it, welcomes guys with checkered pasts). This is not a guy who will run the program without "shenanigans"
- how good a coach is he anyway? Is there an easier gig than lsu? Almost no admissions standards, tons of talent with no in-state competition, surrounded by states with additional talent to pluck from
- his offenses have been lousy for the most part. No progressive scheme to speak of, and that's what leading programs have
- he's fairly old
- not exactly a guy who seems to outwit his opponents
No thanks. I'd rather have Mullen over him, and it's not even close (not that Mullen would be my top choice)
Miles is also a central figure in some lingering bad blood from the Moeller/Carr eras. Allegedly lots of enmity with Carr in particular (some of the rumors are salacious, others more petty and Machiavellian). Unfortunately for Miles, he represents the Old Guard, and I think a lot of people are just sick of the Schembechler Tree and the BS that has come with it for close to 20 years.
I'm not as negative on Miles as twibnotes; I actually think he'd work well and would stay within the guardrails. However I think Michigan can do better.
Not excited about Richt... has anyone done less with more (other than Hoke)? Mullen doesn't have enough of a sustained track record for me. Pinkel would be interesting, but he's kind of old (62) and may not be a long-term solution.
Graham from ASU is kind of intriguing to me, and Gundy or Stoops from OSU/OU would be interesting.
But for an Outsider that gets a lot out of his squads, I'd love to see if Gary Patterson would be interested. Pair him with a good recruiting coach and a dynamic OC and we'd be in business.
I'm not as negative on Miles as twibnotes; I actually think he'd work well and would stay within the guardrails. However I think Michigan can do better.
Not excited about Richt... has anyone done less with more (other than Hoke)? Mullen doesn't have enough of a sustained track record for me. Pinkel would be interesting, but he's kind of old (62) and may not be a long-term solution.
Graham from ASU is kind of intriguing to me, and Gundy or Stoops from OSU/OU would be interesting.
But for an Outsider that gets a lot out of his squads, I'd love to see if Gary Patterson would be interested. Pair him with a good recruiting coach and a dynamic OC and we'd be in business.
Football Scoop says Michigan has had informal discussions with Jim Harbaugh about the job but has told them that he can't talk until the season is over. They have also contacted other NFL coaches but did not name any. In the college ranks, they've reached out to Butch Jones, Steve Addazio, and Kyle Whittingham could become a focal point of their search.
http://footballscoop.com/news/michigan-search-update/
http://footballscoop.com/news/michigan-search-update/
Everyone knows Harbaugh bleeds Wolverine blue -- he wouldn't do something to hurt the program on purpose. If he wasn't interested in leaving the NFL to coach his alma mater, he tell them that.RedOctober3829 said:
I can't speak to the quality of this writer's sources, but if Harbaugh actually said what he's reported to have said, I think it's more likely than not that he'll accept the job if it's offered. Yes, there's a chance he'd get cold feet once it was actually time to decide, but he has to be considering it seriously (again, if the report is accurate).
I think Michigan would be crazy not to wait for that to play out.
maufman said:
Agreed. I know nothing about Michigan other than what I read in this thread but I am convinced Harbaugh is done with San Francisco and will be moving on. Whether he intends to take his talents to South Beach (Joe Philbin is not making this easy - yet) or some other place (Jets fans are terrific and think they have a chance) is unclear but he won't co-exist with Baalke & York for another season.
And if he wouldn't screw over the Program then I think that's your guy.
I've run my playoff simulation tool a few times, and come up with the 49ers having a 15% chance of reaching the playoffs based on my power ratings. Football Outsiders has them at 30% based on DVOA, but that doesn't include Thursday's Dallas win, which hurt the 49ers. The 49ers play at Seattle in week 15. If they lose that one, they drop to 3% with the sim tool. That might be the point where he at least agrees to behind-the-scenes talks. This week, it would be nice, though a long shot, if Tampa Bay upset Detroit.
Anyone think John Harbaugh, having gotten a ring and possibly disgusted with the Ravens (one account of the Ray Rice affair indicated that Harbaugh wanted to cut him and was overruled), could be a candidate? He is in many ways a more attractive candidate than Jim.
Looks like Harbaughs aren't the answer:
http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2014/12/cbs_writer_jim_harbaugh_not_in.html
And we heard that Les Miles wasn't interested, either.
I hope we're not headed for another desperation hire.
http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2014/12/cbs_writer_jim_harbaugh_not_in.html
And we heard that Les Miles wasn't interested, either.
I hope we're not headed for another desperation hire.
It depends on how much stock you put into the Football Scoop report which reads:Eric1984 said:
Or Jason La Confora:
It looks like the La Confora quote is more strongly worded and is better sourced, coming from Harbaugh, while Football Scoop has sources at the U of M.
The NFL regular season ends on December 28th.
National signing day is February 4th.
That could be absolutely devastating for recruiting. I'm mildly surprised that Michigan hasn't found a coach yet - recruiting looks like it's about to fall off a cliff. That can take years to rebuild.
National signing day is February 4th.
That could be absolutely devastating for recruiting. I'm mildly surprised that Michigan hasn't found a coach yet - recruiting looks like it's about to fall off a cliff. That can take years to rebuild.
This was going to be a small class anyway, and we are entering a dead period in which teams aren't allowed to contact recruits. With Nebraska and Florida jobs filled, Michigan has the opportunity to be pretty deliberate. Makes no sense at all to rush this very important process/decision.Kremlin Watcher said:
I'm not trying to be biased here, but there's a lot of poo being flung at a lot of walls, and none of it is really that informative. You can find lots of articles out there that say Harbaugh is likely to come to UM. I won't believe much unless there's an extension for a college coach like Freeze or a hire is made in the case of Harbaugh. That being said, the talk of Schiano is terrifying.
Edit: Twib is right, getting this coaching hire is much more important than one class of recruits. Furthermore, if a perceptively homerun candidate is hired, they should still be able to poach good recruits.
Edit: Twib is right, getting this coaching hire is much more important than one class of recruits. Furthermore, if a perceptively homerun candidate is hired, they should still be able to poach good recruits.
Today's loss to Oakland can't have helped Harbaugh's outlook on San Francisco, but these stories are coming from veteran reporters. At any rate, San Francisco's playoff chances are down to 6%. Eliminated with one more loss. Next week's game at Seattle is their biggest - a win would increase their chances of a wild-card spot to 21%.
I find Jim to have the much more agreeable personality, just due to his competitiveness. The media might like John better who is probably more forthcoming.twibnotes said:
Getting the new coach right will probably have a greater impact on recruiting than rushing the hire. Getting a coach just to ensure we get bodies in this recruiting class won't make that much of a difference. Getting a guy like Jimmy or Stoops could lead to some solid late additions.twibnotes said:
Yeah, I'm trying to take everything with a grain of salt. I'm sort of expecting to be disappointed.Zososoxfan said:
Harbaugh interview with KNBR: http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=851&c=4801&f=3724243
Funchess makes it official... he won't be on the welcoming committee for the new coach. He'll have an interesting time answering difficult questions at the combine about all those drops once the season started going south. But he's still at least a second-rounder.
Miles is denying being contacted and Hoke is considered a candidate at Oregon State. And no, Michigan is not a basketball school. Which has nothing to do with our almost-ranked men's team losing at home to EMU today and our almost-ranked women's team losing at home to Princeton by 30 today. Both teams have road games against top-five opponents Saturday. Swimming and diving?
Miles is denying being contacted and Hoke is considered a candidate at Oregon State. And no, Michigan is not a basketball school. Which has nothing to do with our almost-ranked men's team losing at home to EMU today and our almost-ranked women's team losing at home to Princeton by 30 today. Both teams have road games against top-five opponents Saturday. Swimming and diving?
I think Devin will be picked in the 3rd or 4th round. He's a little too risky for a 1st or 2nd round pick, despite the skills and upside. High third would be my guess, but I wouldn't be surprised anywhere from low 2nd to mid 4th.
Doesn't he remind you a little bit of the football equivalent of GR3? Ton of talent, but missing something along the lines of drive and determination and focus?
It will be interesting to see what pro teams want to do with him. Michigan gave up on playing him at tight end because he just wasn't physical enough. He'll have to be more physical than college to play TE in the pros. I wonder if he'll drop down some teams' boards because they don't see him as capable of playing tight end.
It will be interesting to see what pro teams want to do with him. Michigan gave up on playing him at tight end because he just wasn't physical enough. He'll have to be more physical than college to play TE in the pros. I wonder if he'll drop down some teams' boards because they don't see him as capable of playing tight end.
I have no idea what will happen and don't have a dog in this fight, but there are a lot of precedents for pro coaches enjoying success at the college level.
Examples of NFL coaches moving to a college job:
Pete Carroll - NY Jets to USC - successful
Dan Devine - Green Bay to Notre Dame - successful
Jim Mora - Seahawks to UCLA - successful
Bobby Petrino - Atlanta to Arkansas - started slow but was building success before he had to quit
Steve Spurrier - Washington to South Carolina - successful
Bill Walsh II - San Francisco to Stanford - successful
Bill Walsh I - San Diego (assistant) to Stanford - not a huge success, but obviously his move back to the NFL was
Joe Walton - NY Jets to Robert Morris - successful although it's such a small program that isn't probably not a good comp
Bill O'Brien - New England OC to Penn State - incomplete grade due to sanctions
Butch Davis - Cleveland to North Carolina - raised the program's profile but major NCAA infractions
Nick Saban - Miami to Alabama - complete and total failure
Examples of NFL coaches moving to a college job:
Pete Carroll - NY Jets to USC - successful
Dan Devine - Green Bay to Notre Dame - successful
Jim Mora - Seahawks to UCLA - successful
Bobby Petrino - Atlanta to Arkansas - started slow but was building success before he had to quit
Steve Spurrier - Washington to South Carolina - successful
Bill Walsh II - San Francisco to Stanford - successful
Bill Walsh I - San Diego (assistant) to Stanford - not a huge success, but obviously his move back to the NFL was
Joe Walton - NY Jets to Robert Morris - successful although it's such a small program that isn't probably not a good comp
Bill O'Brien - New England OC to Penn State - incomplete grade due to sanctions
Butch Davis - Cleveland to North Carolina - raised the program's profile but major NCAA infractions
Nick Saban - Miami to Alabama - complete and total failure
Rumor has it that Cutcliffe turned down the job. As both a Duke grad and a UM grad, I think it is best for both schools.
