2014 Celtics Offseason: Rebuilding Plans

[HomeRunBaker]

I freaking hate this. He isnt improving in general and especially his shooting ever. I dont know about Danny but I like "shooting" guards who can shoot. And the dude cant cover 2s and cant play the point, so he doesnt have a natural position on the floor. And Smart is sort of like that too until he can prove he can play the point. So for a variety of reasons I freaking hate this. And I didnt even get to the fact that at $8M he is basically market value for the production we are going to get and thats IF he stays healthy which he also hasnt been able to do. I cant think of a single thing I like about it

Why don't you feel Avery will continue improving his shooting? He's only 23 years old and has taken his eFG% from 19% as a lightly used rookie to 42% two years ago up to 46% last season despite increased usage.

He shot 39.5% behind the arc which is excellent and good for 25th in the entire league. His shooting used to be a weakness years ago.....that is no longer the case.

 

[tbrown_01923]

Who is expecting young to get many minutes this year?  I think this is likely an NBDL shuttle season for him, he needs to add some strength and improve his spot up shooting.  
 
Going into the season with Bradley/Smart (who I think would could be interchangeable defensively when on the court together) and Rondo as your three guard rotation, would split nicely in about 30 minutes each, With 6 or so minutes left over for bench fodder, if you trade Rondo and end up with another (say Thomas) maybe you want can afford to give minutes to Young (shaving Thomas allotment to 25 would give Young 11 minutes at the 2).  I just don't anticipate YOung cbeing ready for more than that this year. Still, I reserve the right to be pleasantly surprised.

 

[DannyDarwinism]

Why don't you feel Avery will continue improving his shooting? He's only 23 years old and has taken his eFG% from 19% as a lightly used rookie to 42% two years ago up to 46% last season despite increased usage.

He shot 39.5% behind the arc which is excellent and good for 25th in the entire league. His shooting used to be a weakness years ago.....that is no longer the case.

 
Yeah, jump shot is the one area where I feel he has made some progress.  My only hope for him on offense is that he can be reasonably effective as a spot-up shooter and a guy who wears his defender out running around screens.  He's awful with the ball in his hands.  His assist% plummeted last year despite his usage increasing substantially.  It's pretty rare for a SG to average more turnovers than assists; in briefly looking at fifteen other guys I thought may be close, I only found two- Swaggy P and Gerald Green. Bradley's ratio is right there with them.  
 
Hardly a crippling signing though, and I am going to love watching him and Smart get after opposing back courts.

 

[wutang112878]

Why don't you feel Avery will continue improving his shooting? He's only 23 years old and has taken his eFG% from 19% as a lightly used rookie to 42% two years ago up to 46% last season despite increased usage.

He shot 39.5% behind the arc which is excellent and good for 25th in the entire league. His shooting used to be a weakness years ago.....that is no longer the case.

 
Lets move this to the Bradley thread

 

[EL Jeffe]

Why don't you feel Avery will continue improving his shooting? He's only 23 years old and has taken his eFG% from 19% as a lightly used rookie to 42% two years ago up to 46% last season despite increased usage.
He shot 39.5% behind the arc which is excellent and good for 25th in the entire league. His shooting used to be a weakness years ago.....that is no longer the case.

This. Bradley is an ascending, high character player who received a market value contract. I always felt like he'd be perfect as the third guard on a championship contending team, but for a team like Boston, he's an asset who doesn't take anything off the table. Plus he compliments Smart nicely in that he's a 2 on offense and a 1 on defense.

 

[Devizier]

All I can say is that it looks like we'll be taking over/under bids on whether this team will be worse than last year's edition.

 

[bowiac]

All I can say is that it looks like we'll be taking over/under bids on whether this team will be worse than last year's edition.

Over. Marcus Smart will teach us the meaning of strength.

 

[ALiveH]

I like Danny's track record.  But I struggle to find any reason to like this move.
 
I don't think Avery will be a difference maker long-term or even particularly attractive trade bait at this price.
 
I really hope we don't regret this anytime in the next few years when we're trying to acquire superstar X and don't quite have the cap space...

 

[HomeRunBaker]

All I can say is that it looks like we'll be taking over/under bids on whether this team will be worse than last year's edition.

As of today it's the same team without addressing scoring needs or interior presence. Give or take a game or two unless something significant happens.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

I like Danny's track record.  But I struggle to find any reason to like this move.
 
I don't think Avery will be a difference maker long-term or even particularly attractive trade bait at this price.
 
I really hope we don't regret this anytime in the next few years when we're trying to acquire superstar X and don't quite have the cap space...

 
To be fair, they're unlikely to acquire Superstar X with cap space anyway. Bradley would be one of the salary matching pieces going the other way in any massive trade.

 

[luckiestman]

I think the team is better next year and that might not be a great thing. Sullinger will have had an offseason so he should be better. Olynyk ended strong last season and won't be scared out there. Whatever shakes out with pressey smart bradley rondo should be better than last year. Jeff will be jeff. If we get some centers that approach nba level Danny might have to make some tank trades just like he did with Crawford and Lee to assure a lotto spot.

 

[ALiveH]

i could totally get on board with some tank trades that send out rondo, green and bass for picks & young players.

 

[Brickowski]

i could totally get on board with some tank trades that send out rondo, green and bass for picks & young players.

I wouldn't necessarily view those deals as "tank trades." I'd be interested to see what happens if Ainge gives Stevens a team he can actually coach, without kissing veteran asses.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

i could totally get on board with some tank trades that send out rondo, green and bass for picks & young players.

Wouldn't giving them big minutes again this year do the job? I don't see Wyc or Ainge ever going the 76er route so standing pat puts a competitive product on the floor without any go-to scorers much like last year to land another #5-6 pick.

 

[Brickowski]

I've had enough of Wallace, Bass Green and Rondo.
Bass has bad hands and is a black hole on offense.
Wallace is just hopeless at this point in his career. It's time for him to consider another line of work.
Green disappears 3 games out of 5. The two good games don't make up for it. He's also the worst 6-9 235 rebounder I've ever seen.
Rondo walks the ball up and then initiates the offense that suits him. When Rondo is in the game it's all about Rondo. He's fun to watch for awhile, but then he isn't. ISO basketball is ultimately boring.

 

[Devizier]

You should probably skip the team next year, cause those are 3 of the Celtics' best players.

 

[Brickowski]

You should probably skip the team next year, cause those are 3 of the Celtics' best players.

Rondo and Green are among their best players, but not Bass or Wallace.

 

[Stitch01]

They probably move Rondo, but I hope that Bass and Green get 40 minutes a game next season and Wallace gets 25 a game next season.  Im not interested in watching good basketball next season and Im not interested in rooting for Brad Stevens to coax 32 wins out of a 25 win team.  Given the way things have broken this offseason, I want terrible, putrid, losing basketball and the ping pong balls that go with it.  Just lose baby!

 

[luckiestman]

You should probably skip the team next year, cause those are 3 of the Celtics' best players.

 
 
 

I've had enough of Wallace, Bass Green and Rondo.
Bass has bad hands and is a black hole on offense.
Wallace is just hopeless at this point in his career. It's time for him to consider another line of work.
Green disappears 3 games out of 5. The two good games don't make up for it. He's also the worst 6-9 235 rebounder I've ever seen.
Rondo walks the ball up and then initiates the offense that suits him. When Rondo is in the game it's all about Rondo. He's fun to watch for awhile, but then he isn't. ISO basketball is ultimately boring.

 
I don't know how to feel about Rondo. He was not good last year (eye test). His assist numbers would have been better better if anyone could make a shot. Pressey was making more stuff happen out there. I'm hoping it was a rusty tank causing Rondo's performance. 
 
Wallace will not shoot, it is unbelievable. I think he aggravates me because of his contract more than his play. His play isnt good but he hustles.
 
Green gets to me because his problem is totally mental. Some games he does things other guys just cant do but then he checks out. It is really striking. 
 
Bass is a weird one. He had a stretch of really good play and Stevens was asking more of him than Rivers did. He isn't a difference maker
 
 
A legit center and a halfway decent scorer would make all of these guys more palatable, but they can be hard to watch at times when they are "go-to" guys

 

[RedOctober3829]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 1m
Whispers are already out there, @ZachLowe_NBA, about Indy trying to pull in Boston to construct some sort of multi-team deal involving Rondo
 

 

[Brickowski]

Of the four guys I listed, the only one who might be a part of the next good Celtics team is Rondo, but (a) he would have to start playing a less Rondo-centric style, and (b) Ainge would have to overpay a lot to keep him.

 

[bowiac]

I can't fathom Indy being the team interested in Rondo, so they've gotta have something else in mind.

 

[wutang112878]

Maybe they think he is an upgrade over George Hill and thats who they would send out?  Or maybe the Celts after Stephenson, offering Rondo for him and are now trying to find the 3rd team for Indy to flip Rondo to so Indy can get whatever it is looking for.
 
I agree on the surface this is a head scratcher.

 

[Brickowski]

George Hill would be a good fit in Houston-- and so would Rondo. I can envision a number of scenarios involving Stephenson, Parsons or even Hibbert.

 

[bowiac]

Apparently this is a Rondo to Phoenix, Dragic to Indy, ??? to Boston type deal.
 
I feel like makes no sense at all. Why would Phoenix do that? Dragic and Bledsoe worked so well together - why mess with that for a guy who can't shoot nearly as well?

 

[wutang112878]

What they would gain in Rondo would be a higher assist rate and perhaps they think Bledsoe will be more effective getting setup like that?
 
With every piece of information we get on this proposed deal it seems we have more questions than answers, so I wonder if a reporter is just throwing crap at the wall or something.  Where did you see that reported?

 

[Brickowski]

Apparently this is a Rondo to Phoenix, Dragic to Indy, ??? to Boston type deal.

As for the ???, if the Celtics are looking for instigators, Stephenson certainly fits the bill.

 

[smokin joe wood]

Indy needs another creator if Lance leaves. I think Rondo would be a good fit in Indy on the court. Hill is more of a two-guard than a true point guard.

 

[ifmanis5]

There's so much smoke around the Rondo to be dealt fire now; he's gotta be moved. He can't come back and be asked all the 'why are you still here?' questions.

 

[Devizier]

Rondo in Indy makes plenty of sense. What doesn't make sense is what Indiana could send back (aside from Stephenson in a sign-and-trade). What I understand even less is who gets involved in a multi-team deal?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Rondo in Indy makes plenty of sense. What doesn't make sense is what Indiana could send back (aside from Stephenson in a sign-and-trade). What I understand even less is who gets involved in a multi-team deal?

Stevenson is going to be looking for near max money......that doesn't seem to be an Ainge move with a player like this.

It's gotta be just a pick or two and salary fodder unless they are REALLY down on Hibbert.

 

[zenter]

Stevenson is going to be looking for near max money......that doesn't seem to be an Ainge move with a player like this.

It's gotta be just a pick or two and salary fodder unless they are REALLY down on Hibbert.

 
Oh, I wouldn't hate that on court. For someone dreaming about the C's having presence down low, Hibbert would be a nice get... As long as the C's don't also try and get Andrew "A Pox on All Your Houses" Bynum. I'm curious - do we know the extent to which he's mended fences with the LGBTQ community? Because Boston is probably a lot more sensitive to these things than Indianapolis.
 
Is he enough return for Rondo? I don't think so, and I'd hope Ainge agrees.

 

[Devizier]

It's gotta be just a pick or two and salary fodder unless they are REALLY down on Hibbert.

 
That could happen depending on the status of Scola's non-guaranteed contract. Don't see any way to make the match otherwise.

 

[ALiveH]

I like Lance a lot.  He's only 23 and he keeps getting better every year.  But, he's a free agent.  it will be very interesting to see where he ends up.
 
Unfortunately, I can't see the Pacers selling low on Hibbert.  Even if he only gets garbage points from here on out & just focuses on defense & rebounding he could be very valuable in that role.
 
Pacers draft picks are not going to be very valuable - they figure to be good for a while.

 

[swingin val]

Did someone just suggest that Hibbert is not a big enough return for Rondo? Expect to be highly disappointed if that is where you are thinking Rondos value is

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Did someone just suggest that Hibbert is not a big enough return for Rondo? Expect to be highly disappointed if that is where you are thinking Rondos value is

Considering the alternative of George Hill and a low 1st rounder I've got Hibbert a monumental return......I don't see how Bird trades big for small though.


Edit: something like Hill, a #1 and Alex Len wouldn't be bad. Last year was a wasted season for Len I'd love for Phoenix to give up on a talented big so soon.

 

[quint]

Nobody was going to give us a top 10 pick for Rondo.

Sacramento was.

 

[Devizier]

Sacramento was.

 
I should add that I think a top ten draft pick is being overrated in this context. I mean, we've just seen Sacramento's last two top ten picks panned in this thread, and it's not like there was better talent available at their spot.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Sacramento was.

Not in the context we are discussing. The talk was for Lil Zeke and swapping picks?

 

[zenter]

Did someone just suggest that Hibbert is not a big enough return for Rondo? Expect to be highly disappointed if that is where you are thinking Rondos value is

 
Well, literally, he is.
 
Okay, here's the thought process. Maybe it's the homer in me, but I think he's less proven than Rondo. I love Hibbert's game, actually, and prefer him on the reconstituted Celts versus Rondo. However, which Hibbert would we get? The guy who disappeared for like 2 months or the guy who was the occasional beast? Or the guy in between?
 
Rondo's game, while frustrating, is also consistent from night to night - he's almost a surefire double-double and he elevates his playoff game. He offers more predictable/consistent value. That is itself a virtue.
 
Also, I'm sensitive to the fact that it's July. I think Rondo's value hasn't truly shaken out yet and I'm more cautious than not.
 
EDIT: I'm not talking about a LOT of throw-in either. Like a top-25 protected or a 2nd rounder. Rondo for Hibbert just doesn't feel right to me.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Rondo in Indy makes plenty of sense. What doesn't make sense is what Indiana could send back (aside from Stephenson in a sign-and-trade). What I understand even less is who gets involved in a multi-team deal?

 
Agreed---George Hill gets overrated pretty consistently.  As we saw in the playoffs, he's a solid role player whose exposed as a starting guard.
 
Also imagine that Indy might realize they need some more offensive diversity.  Rondo's not as good a shooter as Hill, but he's a vastly better penetrator and passer.

 

[bowiac]

Agreed---George Hill gets overrated pretty consistently.  As we saw in the playoffs, he's a solid role player whose exposed as a starting guard.

I would caution against drawing too many conclusions on the basis of the playoffs. It's a sure recipe for over or underrating a player simply because that makes up a large chunk of the games one happened to see.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I would caution against drawing too many conclusions on the basis of the playoffs. It's a sure recipe for over or underrating a player simply because that makes up a large chunk of the games one happened to see.

 
Most certainly never the approach I would take.   Hill is a guy who fits a system, and so long as you have other creators he's a useful guy to defend, take open shots, and move the ball.   But he's also limited in what he can create, which (in a potential post-Stephenson world) is an issue for Indiana.   In the NBA (unlike MLB) the system and the player's fit are a huge consideration in value--being an outstanding fit for one system doesn't make the player generically great.   

 

[bowiac]

Most certainly never the approach I would take.   Hill is a guy who fits a system, and so long as you have other creators he's a useful guy to defend, take open shots, and move the ball.   But he's also limited in what he can create, which (in a potential post-Stephenson world) is an issue for Indiana.   In the NBA (unlike MLB) the system and the player's fit are a huge consideration in value--being an outstanding fit for one system doesn't make the player generically great.   

No, I basically agree that Hill's not a great fit for Indy if Stephenson leaves, but I think he's also much better than a mere "role" player (whatever that means). For most teams, I'd rather have Hill than Rondo.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

If you fully tank, I'd think going with young players and letting them put up empty numbers to increase their trade value is the way to go. Not Bass, Green, Wallace.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

No, I basically agree that Hill's not a great fit for Indy if Stephenson leaves, but I think he's also much better than a mere "role" player (whatever that means). For most teams, I'd rather have Hill than Rondo.

 
I think if most teams means 'running the Spurs system' that's quite fair...but other teams are doing very different things offensively, and Hill is pretty limited outside of a spot-up supporting player role.   He's more a comp to Bradley than he is to Rondo, in terms of skill and value, seems to me.  But I know you hate Rondo's game!

 

[knucklecup]

RT @GwashburnGlobe: The #celtics are one of 5 teams that have reached out to FA Kris Humphries, according to NBA source. LAC, DAL, MIN and MIA also interested

Tremendous.

 

[swingin val]

Rondo for Hibbert just doesn't feel right to me.

You are correct. It would take much more than just Rondo to fetch Hibbert.

 

[knucklecup]

RT @RajonRondo: Just loaded up some big fireworks again from Fireworks Factory Outlet in New Albany, IN.

Why on earth is Rondo in New Albany?

 

[Curtis Pride]

New Albany is across the river from Louisville, KY... Rondo's hometown.