2017 Yankees Offseason Discussion

Wingack

Yankee Mod
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
34,315
In The Quivering Forest
Apparently Pittsburgh wants Gleyber for Cole. Cashman I am sure has told them hell no. Resigning CC gives them more leverage.

Even they need to role into the season with the same rotation that got them within one game of the World Series, I don’t have a problem with that. This year, the Yankees will have arms knocking on the door down in AAA.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
Personally at this point, I make Torres, Andujar, Florial, Sheffield and Abreu off limits. Things can change once the season starts, Blake Rutherford was off-limits last offseason and gone in July, but right now I keep those five almost no matter what.
 

Wingack

Yankee Mod
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
34,315
In The Quivering Forest
Personally at this point, I make Torres, Andujar, Florial, Sheffield and Abreu off limits. Things can change once the season starts, Blake Rutherford was off-limits last offseason and gone in July, but right now I keep those five almost no matter what.
Yeah totally agree. They fit the team’s future plans so well.
 

Lorca's Tribble

New Member
Nov 24, 2017
75
The amazing thing is that there's a real plausible scenario where the Yankees 25 man roster in 2019 includes Judge, Sanchez, Bird, Torres, Andujar, Frazier, Green, Sheffield, and Adams.

It's likely one or some of those youngsters will either struggle or be traded, it's likely there'll be a couple of free agent hitters and pitchers swapped out for them, but this is the wet dream I've wanted to see for more than 15 years: a team of home-grown prospects, or trade acquisitions that made their debuts in New York.

Since the mid 00s when we needed them the most we've seen the teams best prospects turn into busts, flame out, or be traded. I feel like we finally have a shot at seeing a majority of the Yankees' top prospects make the team and succeed.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
More attractive IMO than Cole on PIT is Felipe Rivero, who has four years of team control and would be the top setup lefty for NY, people may remember I was eyeing him greedily some last year before the Kahnle/Robertson deal.

I'd give up a nice package for a Cole/Rivero combo, maybe something like Frazier/Abreu/Adams/Tate/Estrada plus Betances and his two years of control as a replacement closer/future trade asset.
 

Zimmer's Helmet

New Member
Sep 30, 2011
7
More attractive IMO than Cole on PIT is Felipe Rivero, who has four years of team control and would be the top setup lefty for NY, people may remember I was eyeing him greedily some last year before the Kahnle/Robertson deal.

I'd give up a nice package for a Cole/Rivero combo, maybe something like Frazier/Abreu/Adams/Tate/Estrada plus Betances and his two years of control as a replacement closer/future trade asset.
That represents a gutting of the farm system for a #3 starter and a reliever who could crash and burn tomorrow.

Relievers are the most volatile asset in baseball - just look at Betances as proof.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
That might be too much for one package (although it is more like two combined packages) but NY needs to do some kind of prospect consolidation at some point, they just have too many guys. McKinney isn't far behind Frazier, German/Sheffield/Acevedo/Heller/Carroll would all still be big impact arms fighting for a chance at a MLB spot with Abreu/Adams/Tate gone, and Solak is right behind Estrada.

Anyway, just an idea.
 

ThePrideofShiner

Crests prematurely
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
10,677
Washington
I was thinking along those lines earlier. At some point, Frazier loses some value because other teams know the Yankees can't play him except in the minors. They almost have to trade him this offseason.
 

Zimmer's Helmet

New Member
Sep 30, 2011
7
That might be too much for one package (although it is more like two combined packages) but NY needs to do some kind of prospect consolidation at some point, they just have too many guys. McKinney isn't far behind Frazier, German/Sheffield/Acevedo/Heller/Carroll would all still be big impact arms fighting for a chance at a MLB spot with Abreu/Adams/Tate gone, and Solak is right behind Estrada.

Anyway, just an idea.
I don't necessarily disagree, but if they do so, they should aim high and target a #1-caliber starter that they can team with Severino in a post-season series.

Just look at how Verlander transformed the dynamic of Houston's rotation when he was obtained to complement Keuchel.

Cole is not the guy who can do that for the Yankees.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
I don't necessarily disagree, but if they do so, they should aim high and target a #1-caliber starter that they can team with Severino in a post-season series.

Just look at how Verlander transformed the dynamic of Houston's rotation when he was obtained to complement Keuchel.

Cole is not the guy who can do that for the Yankees.
Yeah, I agree with that, but not sure who that would be who would actually be available. Patience, I guess...
 

Murderer's Crow

Dragon Wangler 216
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
23,430
Garden City
More attractive IMO than Cole on PIT is Felipe Rivero, who has four years of team control and would be the top setup lefty for NY, people may remember I was eyeing him greedily some last year before the Kahnle/Robertson deal.

I'd give up a nice package for a Cole/Rivero combo, maybe something like Frazier/Abreu/Adams/Tate/Estrada plus Betances and his two years of control as a replacement closer/future trade asset.
Why not add Torres in there for good measure?
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
Rivero is a cost-controlled lefty stud reliever with closer experience and they don’t want to trade him, so I went a little heavy. That’s one of the few things NY lacks, a high-ceiling lefty reliever ahead of Chapman, and there aren’t many who fit the bill as well as Rivero. Like I said, just an idea.
 

VORP Speed

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
6,625
Ground Zero
Topkin (Rays beat writer) mentioned that NYY were one of the teams discussing Archer and Longoria. Also Rays GM quoted as saying he was “not philosophically opposed” to dealing within the division.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
I don't think Longoria makes any sense for NY, he is 32 and has 5/72 left on his deal. I'd rather see what we have in Andujar this year and then go after Machado or Donaldson in the winter if they need to.
 

Murderer's Crow

Dragon Wangler 216
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
23,430
Garden City
Absolutely not on Longoria. I'm perfectly happy going to war with what the team has right now if it means teams are going to try to fleece Cash for a starter. I'd rather overpay at the deadline than overpay now, especially if Cole is going to require an ace-like return. Feel like we're all caught in a loop of trading Frazier for the sake of it and mostly assumed it would only take him + some B/C levels to grab a top guy. If that's not the case, pass for now.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
Haha, I don't see this happening, but wow:

Buster Olney‏Verified account @Buster_ESPN 8m8 minutes ago

Speculation and nothing more, at this point: One evaluator suggests that if Mike Moustakas's slow-moving market doesn't develop, he'd be a great one-year fit with the NYY. Play for a year in Yankee Stadium, feast on RF porch in a deep lineup, go back into market next fall.
 

Wingack

Yankee Mod
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
34,315
In The Quivering Forest
I just saw that too. But it is something to think about. The market is moving soooo slowly, if it isn’t Moustakas maybe it is a pitcher like Jake Arrieta or Lance Lynn that would take a one year deal.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
Is Moustakas even better than Todd Frazier? Seems like Frazier’s D is a lot better in the minute I just spent investigating.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
I just saw that too. But it is something to think about. The market is moving soooo slowly, if it isn’t Moustakas maybe it is a pitcher like Jake Arrieta or Lance Lynn that would take a one year deal.
Heh, Arrieta this winter and Machado next, just to make Angelos' head explode.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

oppresses WARmongers
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2008
27,644
Roanoke, VA
Is Moustakas even better than Todd Frazier? Seems like Frazier’s D is a lot better in the minute I just spent investigating.
It's probably closer than Boras would have you believe. Frazier is the better defender, Mouse is a slightly better overall bat if you look at their wRC+ numbers from the last few years. Frazier is also two and a half years older. But Frazier on a 1 or 2 year deal would probably give you at least 85% of Moustakas who will likely get at least 5 and perhaps twice the AAV.
 

Murderer's Crow

Dragon Wangler 216
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
23,430
Garden City

Cashman dealt: Brendan Ryan, Rookie Davis, Eric Jagielo, Caleb Cotham, Tony Renda, Jorge Guzman, and Jose Devers. Cashman acquired: Giancarlo Stanton, Aroldis Chapman, Gleyber Torres, Adam Warren, Billy McKinney and Rashad Crawford.
My Cashman appreciation is endless.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
The @yankeesource guy I like on Twitter has been doing a running thing of that since NY resigned Chapman last winter, he has it pinned but somehow people picked it up today. An even better version would be to add in Brian McCann, cancel out Guzman and add Albert Abreu to NY's side.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
Or just McCann and Castro (both of whom made eight figures and had young potential superstars behind them) for Stanton and Abreu.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
People might remember I have been panting after Darvish here for years, but it's hard to see how he could fit and NY stay under $197M without trading Gardner and Warren ($18M combined).

Of course, this new aggressive Cashman has already opened up two position spots for stud prospects this winter, why not make it three? That would free up primary LF for Stanton and let Frazier and Andujar both get DH ABs to help their transition.

Hicks CF
Judge RF
Bird 1B
Stanton LF
Didi SS
Sanchez C
C. Frazier DH
Andujar 3B
Torres 2B

Ellsbury or McKinney
Austin (or McKinney could be here too, he played some 1B in the AFL)
Wade or Torreyes
Romine or hopefully someone better than him

Severino
Darvish
Tanaka
Gray
CC
(Montgomery/Adams/Sheffield all in AAA)

German
Heller
Green
Betances
Kahnle
Robertson
Chapman

That entire bullpen has been clocked at 100 at some point, except Robertson.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
As long as Torres, Sheffield, and Florial are off-limits, and add Andujar if they don't have an alternate long-term 3B plan like Machado in mind. Cole is like Sonny Gray, I don't think either is a reliable #1/#2, but a potential four man playoff rotation of Severino/Tanaka/Cole/Gray is pretty solid.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
I don't know anything more than anyone else, but my impression is that Heyman is behind this story and Passan wouldn't have made that post if NY/PIT hadn't moved past Torres. Torres is NY's starting 2B now (if not on Opening Day, shortly afterwards) and there is no way Cashman would move him for Cole.
 

Murderer's Crow

Dragon Wangler 216
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
23,430
Garden City
I don't know anything more than anyone else, but my impression is that Heyman is behind this story and Passan wouldn't have made that post if NY/PIT hadn't moved past Torres. Torres is NY's starting 2B now (if not on Opening Day, shortly afterwards) and there is no way Cashman would move him for Cole.
Pirates know they aren't getting Torres, it's posturing to get a better prospect with Frazier. My guess is Cashman's floor is Adams but he's trying to get the Pirates to take Frazier and Estrada/Medina.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
But yeah, something like Frazier, Adams and Estrada or Solak seems pretty fair.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
Adams isn't a top 20 prospect if that's what you mean. He is NY's 3rd best pitching prospect now, Sheffield is definitely #1 and most people like Abreu more too, plus this would push Montgomery back to 6th guy.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,602
"Too much" is really relative, for me a lot of it is whether guys are blocked or not.

Frazier is blocked from ahead (Judge/Stanton/Gardner/Hicks) and Florial is fast rising plus McKinney has a lot of upside too, he was better than Frazier in AAA last year and is the same age.

Adams is more ready than Sheffield and Abreu now, but both of them might be ready this summer and have higher upsides, plus there are six other guys ahead of Adams if they get Cole.
 

Murderer's Crow

Dragon Wangler 216
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
23,430
Garden City
"Too much" is really relative, for me a lot of it is whether guys are blocked or not.

Frazier is blocked from ahead (Judge/Stanton/Gardner/Hicks) and Florial is fast rising plus McKinney has a lot of upside too, he was better than Frazier in AAA last year and is the same age.

Adams is more ready than Sheffield and Abreu now, but both of them might be ready this summer and have higher upsides, plus there are six other guys ahead of Adams if they get Cole.
I get what you're saying but his value in the market is higher than his value to the Yankees. It doesn't mean he's a throw-in.
 

Lorca's Tribble

New Member
Nov 24, 2017
75
Blocked or not, they have a lot of value right now, and I agree that two top prospects is too high a price for another Sonny Gray. Teams shouldn't trade prospects just because they don't have an immediate path to the bigs; I hope Cash values them appropriately and maximizes their value while it's there.

Who knows, by mid season or next season, a guy like Adams or Frazier could find themselves an everyday player on the Yankees through a variety of circumstances.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2007
17,163
Washington
I'm all for trading, even over paying a bit, with prospects when the return provides a degree of certainty for the production needed at a given position. I'm just not sure what to think about Cole. He was awesome in 2015. Less so this past season, but with flashes of quality.

The Yankees seem to assess talent pretty well, their own as well as others. If they really want Cole, hard not to trust them even if the price appears high.
 

Murderer's Crow

Dragon Wangler 216
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
23,430
Garden City
I'm all for trading, even over paying a bit, with prospects when the return provides a degree of certainty for the production needed at a given position. I'm just not sure what to think about Cole. He was awesome in 2015. Less so this past season, but with flashes of quality.

The Yankees seem to assess talent pretty well, their own as well as others. If they really want Cole, hard not to trust them even if the price appears high.
That would be what I hang my hat on. Until I see Cole's performance be better than his previous two years though, I'd be pretty upset if we give up two top guys.
 

ThePrideofShiner

Crests prematurely
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
10,677
Washington
The nice thing about Cole would be the ability to have a six-man rotation to some degree. Skip Tanaka and Severino periodically as needed.