2016 PGA Tour

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
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8 wins on tour is a very respectable career. Without a major his resume peers are something like Stuart Appleby, Sergio, KJ Choi, Bill Haas, Hunter Mahan, Steve Stricker, and Matt Kuchar.
 

WayBackVazquez

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8 wins on tour is a very respectable career. Without a major his resume peers are something like Stuart Appleby, Sergio, KJ Choi, Bill Haas, Hunter Mahan, Steve Stricker, and Matt Kuchar.
No. Sergio also has 11 Euro Tour victories, semi-legendary Ryder Cup performance, and will be in the Hall of Fame if he never wins again.
 

cshea

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This got me thinking about some active players that are active and are borderline HOFers.

Jim Furyk is kind of an interesting case. 17 wins so he's eligible, but only 1 major. Lousy in the Ryder Cup, but has the 58 and 59. I'd say in.

Zach Johnson is a similar to Kaymer. 12 wins, 2 majors. He's probably in if he never wins again. Bubba is tough call. Tough to leave a guy with 2 green jackets out, but the rest of his work doesn't seem HOF worthy at a quick glance.

I think Lee Westwood, Sergio, Scott, Rory and Day are locks. I'm sure I'm missing plenty of others.
 

WayBackVazquez

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Well, I think Tiger Woods might make it. Padraig and Goosen are also locks.

Also, I don't think Day is a lock; he's barely eligible via 1 major and a Players. So while I think it's likely he'll eventually be a lock, as will Spieth be, those two and Bubba have work to do before they can actually be considered sure things.
 
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WayBackVazquez

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Hence his "borderline HOFers" qualifier.
Which makes perfect sense is conjunction with "I think Lee Westwood, Sergio, Scott, Rory and Day are locks."

There are a few categories here:

1) Fewer than 15 wins, and fewer than 2 majors/Players: Ineligible. (e.g. Stricker, David Toms, DJ) I don't consider these players borderline. They are out unless they do more, period.

2) Either 15 wins or 2 majors. Here's your borderline. In my opinion, if you have significantly more than 15 wins, or 3 or more majors, I'd move you closer to the lock category. So true borderlines if they never won again would include Bubba, Spieth, Day, as well as Furyk, Duval, Zach Johnson, Justin Leonard, Cabrera and John Daly. Near locks in this tweener category would include Westwood and Sergio.

3) Both 15 wins and at least 2 majors. There's no way these people aren't getting in. (Tiger, Rory, Padraig, Goosen, Scott).

I would certainly put money one way or another on category 2, eg Furyk and Cabrera in, Daly out. But they have to be the definition of borderline.
 
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WayBackVazquez

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I would add DL3 to the list of borderline, if not near lock. No Majors but 21 wins and Ryder Cup schwag, lineage to add to the narrative.
He would be in my stone cold lock category. 22 eligible wins and 3 "majors" (PGA and 2 Players).

EDIT: Not to mention winning PGA events in four different decades.
 
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Quintanariffic

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Furyk, for me at least, is a lock. Aside from the 17 wins and 1 major, consider this:
- 14 Top 5 finishes in majors including 3 2nd place finishes in the US Open alone
- Won 10 other professional events of varying prestige, including the old Grand Slam of Golf both times he was in it
- Fed Ex Cup winner
- PGA player of the year
- Vardon Trophy
- The 58 and 59

That's about an impressive of a resume as you'll find for a guy with less then 2 majors.
 

cshea

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He's basically back to where he was a year ago. He will have to play in the web.com tour playoffs and finish in the top 25 of money earned during the 4 event to get a card for next year.
 

AirborneSas

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cshea

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In other news, it is the last week for US Ryder Cup qualifying. 5 players have already qualified- DJ, Spieth, Mickelson, Jimmy Walker and Brooks Koepka. Spots 6-8 are currently occupied by Snedeker, ZJ and Reed, but they could still be overtaken. Holmes, Bubba, Kuchar and Fowler are 9-12 and looking to not have to sweat out a captain's pick. I would personally go with that group, but a horrifying late Furyk charge has put him on the map as having a non-zero chance of a getting a pick.
 
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FL4WL3SS

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If Davis Love picks Furyk, then all this talk about changing the process and having a committee is all window dressing. It'll be more of the same.

Furyk does not belong on this year's version.
 

TFP

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If Davis Love picks Furyk, then all this talk about changing the process and having a committee is all window dressing. It'll be more of the same.

Furyk does not belong on this year's version.
If Furyk makes it I'll be actively heckling him at Hazeltine.
 

steveluck7

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I saw this article the other day and vomited in my mouth re: Furyk
I'm the guy they want on their side
But I think when we get in that team room and whether I’m playing, whether I’m an assistant, I think the guys that have been through that with me – through the Ryder Cups, through the Presidents Cups – know that I’m dependable. I’m a guy that they want on their side.
Good. God. Please. No
 

Average Reds

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If Davis Love picks Furyk, then all this talk about changing the process and having a committee is all window dressing. It'll be more of the same.

Furyk does not belong on this year's version.
Gird yourself. There is no way that Love will be able to resist.

"Look, this is the man with the low round in PGA history..."
 

johnmd20

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Gird yourself. There is no way that Love will be able to resist.

"Look, this is the man with the low round in PGA history..."
I don't want to gird. Furyk would be an irresponsible pick. These guys are golfers, they know a huge round can come out of nowhere but the trend is more important than just 18 friggin' holes.
 

HoyaSoxa

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It's not just one round, Furyk has been playing well since the US Open. If you give him credit for the RC points he would have scored but for injury in the first half of the season, he is probably sitting around 9th or 10th in the standings. Start girding, my friends - he will be at Hazeltine.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Good God please, no Furyk. I realize he's managed to inch his way up to #15, but for God's sake, like FL4WL3SS said, he's awful in this format and historically he has won 11 points in 30 matches. I realize no one here is making a case for him, but 58 or not he has no business on this team. They have Mickelson for the veteran presence. Ride hot hands and youth, change the culture around this team. They made a mistake not taking Horschel last time and going with Mahan and Simpson instead. I wasn't a big fan of them bringing DL3 back to begin with, if he brings Furyk he should be drawn and quartered.
 
If Furyk is picked, he'll be fresher than a lot of other players on both teams because of the lack of golf he had in the first half of the year. He would probably play in no more than 3 matches, and he'd probably win at least one of them.

If the US loses the Ryder Cup, it won't be because of Jim Furyk.
 

johnmd20

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If Furyk is picked, he'll be fresher than a lot of other players on both teams because of the lack of golf he had in the first half of the year. He would probably play in no more than 3 matches, and he'd probably win at least one of them.

If the US loses the Ryder Cup, it won't be because of Jim Furyk.
You have made up every single assertion in this post, passed off every made up assertion as truth, and used this fake truth to justify your point. Nice work.
 
All of those "assertions" are simply my opinions. How have I passed them off as facts? The exception being Furyk's freshness - he played two tournaments before May this year, and although he's played a lot since then, I think it's reasonable to assume he won't have been worn down as much as many other golfers by September (even if he has played a lot of golf since May). The points about playing in no more than 3 matches and winning one of them are extrapolations based upon my knowledge of how wildcard veterans have often been used by past Ryder Cup Captains, the fact that very few golfers win no points in a Ryder Cup when given 2-3 matches, and the fact that often it's the less heralded players in Ryder Cup teams that perform the best.

I'm just trying to be contrarian, not an ass. If you think Furyk would cost the US the Ryder Cup if picked as a wildcard, I'd kindly ask you to show your work, please.
 

johnmd20

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All of those "assertions" are simply my opinions. How have I passed them off as facts? The exception being Furyk's freshness - he played two tournaments before May this year, and although he's played a lot since then, I think it's reasonable to assume he won't have been worn down as much as many other golfers by September (even if he has played a lot of golf since May). The points about playing in no more than 3 matches and winning one of them are extrapolations based upon my knowledge of how wildcard veterans have often been used by past Ryder Cup Captains, the fact that very few golfers win no points in a Ryder Cup when given 2-3 matches, and the fact that often it's the less heralded players in Ryder Cup teams that perform the best.

I'm just trying to be contrarian, not an ass. If you think Furyk would cost the US the Ryder Cup if picked as a wildcard, I'd kindly ask you to show your work, please.
Furyk's career as a Ryder Cup player is filled with failure. He has put up 11 points in 30 matches, a pitiful record. And he did this over the years when he was significantly younger and a much higher ranked player. To think he can somehow be useful in any way at the age of 46 seems to belie the reality of golf, and athletics in general, which is that the younger players tend to shine.

Furthermore, there is no reason to think a single point won't be the difference in this year's Ryder Cup. Does Furyk bring some sort of cohesiveness to the team if he's there? I don't see how, he's been in 8 Ryder Cups and the US has won a total of 2 of those. He hasn't helped when he was wining majors. How would he help now?

I don't see his value in any way whatsoever and it would drive me nuts if he was picked. Nothing about him or his track record or the reality of his age seems to indicate he would be a good pick.
 
Thank you - I appreciate the more expansive, less hostile argument. I don't necessarily think you're wrong, but I thought a lot of the previous posts came across like kneejerk, visceral reactions, and I thought I'd at least try to make an argument in Furyk's favor.

One thing I would say is that no alternative captain's pick is likely to give you too many warm, fuzzy feelings in lieu of Furyk. If we look at cshea's top 12 as a starting point:

Definitely In - DJ, Spieth, Mickelson, Walker, Koepka
Probably In - Snedeker, ZJ, Reed
First Four Out - Holmes, Bubba, Kuchar and Fowler

If you go with the last four as your wildcard picks:
  • Kuchar has played in three Ryder Cups and had a good one (2-1-0 at Medinah, albeit with a killer singles loss to Westwood), a decent one (1-1-2 at Celtic Manor) and a horrible one (1-3-0 at Gleneagles).
  • Holmes had a great Ryder Cup at Valhalla (2-0-1) but hasn't played in one since and could do just about anything.
  • Bubba has an even worse Ryder Cup record than Furyk (3-8-0 in his 11 matches).
  • And Fowler has yet to win a single Ryder Cup match in eight attempts (0–2–3 and 0-1-2 in his two campaigns so far), not to mention he's been in dreadful form for about three months.
Is Furyk really that much worse than those four by comparison?
 

johnmd20

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Furyk is worse than Fowler and Kuchar, in my opinion. Bubba is a mess right now, so I'm not sure I see the value of him. I think out of anyone, Fowler is a lock to be picked. And Kooch has a shot ahead of Zach, but who knows.
 

cshea

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Furyk is a vice captain so it's not like he won't be there.

Reed and Fowler are 1-2 at the moment at Bethpage, so that could change the calculus on Tuesday when the picks are made. Reed is in the 8th spot now so I'm assuming he is in. If Fowler finishes high enough, he could bump out ZJ. ZJ is 6-6-2 in his career, which isn't all that bad considering the way this thing has gone for the US recently. The value in Bubba is he can hit it a mile. He's a useful guy to have around for 4-ball. Just let Bubba bomb away and try to overpower the course, while pairing him with someone who can take a more conservative approach. He also hasn't missed a cut since the 2015 US Open, so I don't really think he is a mess. He's still 6th in the world. The 1 problem is finding him a partner who can put up with him. Traditionally that's been Webb Simpson, but Webb's not going to be anywhere close to the team this year. He was 2-1 with JB Holmes at the President's Cup a year ago, so maybe that is a fit. Which leads me to....

JB Holmes is the guy I'm scared DLIII drops for Furyk. JB has MC'd in 6 of his last 11 starts going back to The Players. He is having a nice week though, currently T10. Furyk is T20 though so he could have a good finish too.
 

cshea

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They are? I know they did that Golf Boys thing together a while ago, but I've never really gotten the sense that they were all that close. FWIW, they've never been paired in the 3 teams they've been on together (2 Ryder Cup's, 1 PC).
 

johnmd20

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This leaderboard is pretty awesome right now. Fowler, Reed, Day, Rory, Adam Scott, Speith, and Grillo, who I happen to really like, in the top ten. That's solid.

Plus, Bethpage Black is literally the only course I will ever watch on TV that I've played over 10 times. It is so much fun watching them go to a hole, any damn hole, and thank to myself, "Ye Gods that hole is bruuuuutal." I have birdied the 4th hole and the 7th hole and the 16th hole(easily the greatest birdie in my life) back in the day but that was a long time and a couple of shoulder surgeries ago. It's still pretty cool.
 

cshea

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Good leaderboard for the final round here. Fowler leads by 2. Reed, Grillo, Woodland, Thomas and others in striking distance.
 

HoyaSoxa

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CBS keeps talking about the FedEx Cup standings, and obviously it's worth discussing, but they aren't even mentioning the Ryder Cup standings, and I can't understand it for the life of me.
 

johnmd20

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CBS keeps talking about the FedEx Cup standings, and obviously it's worth discussing, but they aren't even mentioning the Ryder Cup standings, and I can't understand it for the life of me.
They mentioned it very early in the round, but nothing since. Maybe b/c it's on NBC?

I do think that if Fowler finishes in the top 3, he moves into a place to make the team.
 

cshea

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Just a guess, but I think they're still trying to establish the playoffs as elite events. They want the playoffs to be close to majors.

Also, the PGA is going to lose a lot of viewers to college football next week and then the NFL in 2 weeks, so they're trying to hype it up to maintain view interest and grab whatever extra viewers they can for the final 3 legs of the playoffs. The Ryder Cup is prestigious enough that people will tune in for that no matter what.