Will Hanley Play 1B Competently - First Hand Observations
- Thread starter Plympton91
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The few times I've seen him, including yesterday, he's looked like a regular first baseman, not like a linebacker playing left field. He looked physically out of place all of last year, and now he just looks like any other first baseman. And what I think has been most noticeable to me is that he is engaged - because he has to be. He's excitable when his fielders make a good play, i.e., he was demonstrative when Holt ranged behind the bag and fired a rocket to him to get Gyrko on what was a sure hit. I think being back in the infield and being needed on every play is going to suit him well. Viva El Hanley!
It would be really weird if his defense turns out to be better than his offense this year, but the way he's going in ST, it's not entirely out of the question.
You know, we didn't discuss this much last year as I recall, but some people really do have trouble staying focused in the OF. There's a lot of doing nothing out there. You watch the pitch, you shift position a bit, you run in and out to back up possible throws, etc., but you're not actually involved in most plays. For some people with attention issues, that's neither fun nor easy, and when they ARE called upon to do something - chase down the fly ball or back up the overthrow - they're a step or more late.
I really don't know whether that was some part of Hanley's problem last year, but comments this spring about how much he likes being involved again as part of the infield group suggest as much. In any case, here's hoping that a Happy and Engaged Hanley results in a Healthy and Productive Hanley.
I really don't know whether that was some part of Hanley's problem last year, but comments this spring about how much he likes being involved again as part of the infield group suggest as much. In any case, here's hoping that a Happy and Engaged Hanley results in a Healthy and Productive Hanley.
Ortiz did an interview recently with one of the Minneapolis newspapers, to whom he lamented the Twins' choice of playing Sano in the OF. Ortiz said that "big boys" get all tired out there, dragging all their weight around, and belong at first or third. He said that by the time HR got up to bat last year, his legs were so exhausted that he couldn't get any power out of them. The reporter's reaction? "Gulp." (i.e., Ortiz might be right and the Twinkies were making a big mistake.)
"Honestly, every time somebody is up there, I want it to be a ground ball," Ramirez said. "It's unbelievable. Every day is getting better and better and better and better. I feel like everybody is looking at me like, he's going to make a great play right here. That's what I expect from myself. Get ready to dive right here, catch everything."
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/48069/whos-on-third-hanleys-on-first-resolving-red-soxs-top-5-issues
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/48069/whos-on-third-hanleys-on-first-resolving-red-soxs-top-5-issues
Will Hanley play 1B competently? I think he will. I think, so far, he has.
Reading the thread I had terrible flashbacks to ARoid's aborted attempt at the position and the parallels that could pretty naturally be drawn, but from the evidence of the innings he's played thus far and the personal pride I hope/imagine he might possess... I think it's going to be okay - particularly considering that a Shaw-platoon and Papi-occasionally-interleague-foray will break up the longer stretches for him at the position, I think yes. He will play competently. His body language so far is getting better as the spring progresses, too.
Reading the thread I had terrible flashbacks to ARoid's aborted attempt at the position and the parallels that could pretty naturally be drawn, but from the evidence of the innings he's played thus far and the personal pride I hope/imagine he might possess... I think it's going to be okay - particularly considering that a Shaw-platoon and Papi-occasionally-interleague-foray will break up the longer stretches for him at the position, I think yes. He will play competently. His body language so far is getting better as the spring progresses, too.
He genuinely seems to be embracing this. The fact that he might not was a concern that many of us had.
Someone should have written poems in green ink on Hanley's glove last year.
Speaking or Ortiz, how come his name never comes up in discussions about who plays first base? Yes, he's 40, and in his swan song season, but he plays 1B in nine or ten inter-league games last year. Is he defensively any worse than, say, Prince Fielder or Ryan Howard? Or worse at first than Sandoval was at third last year?
RE: Ortiz. Probably because he has repeatedly said that playing 1B puts a lot of extra strain on his knees and body at this point. He'd break down too quickly. Better to do whatever they can to keep his bat in the best shape it can be in at his age.
One game in.... usually when these sorts of threads get bumped up, it's bad news. So no bump= looked at least okay in one game?
He's looked competent most of the spring, yesterday was no exception. I doubt he's going to turn into a pumpkin now that they're out of the Florida sun.
I have been fairly impressed with Hanley's on the record statements about his fielding, both this year and last year. They are savvy but also convey actual information.
One of the main things he conveys is that he genuinely wants to do the right thing for the team. It makes the criticism of him last year seem especially inapt.
Yes, it's worth it to remember that he voluntarily moved to left field last year. Sure, the team was paying him a hojillion dollars to do so, but he went out of his comfort zone and played LF. He was terrible at it and he got hurt doing it which ruined his season, but it's hardly because he didn't give a shit.
yesterday Allen Iversen went in the hall of fame. Despite being very articulate in his own way, he was perpetually misunderstood due to his bravado, neck tattoos etc. I would propose that given an actual language barrier it is much harder for the public to understand Hanley's perspective. The same goes for Panda.
Back to observations. I expect he will end up above average. He is still a good infielder and quick to the balls hit to him. He s not super comfortable fielding throws, reminding me a bit of 2003 Millar in that he steps a bit too soon the odd time. I will go as far to say I believe he is a better athlete than Millar.
Back to observations. I expect he will end up above average. He is still a good infielder and quick to the balls hit to him. He s not super comfortable fielding throws, reminding me a bit of 2003 Millar in that he steps a bit too soon the odd time. I will go as far to say I believe he is a better athlete than Millar.
He looks more comfortable there already than he ever did in LF last year. I think above average may be asking too much, but there's reason to hope he'll be passable. If we get, say, -5 run 1B defense but the +20-run offense comes back, I'd take that. He'd still be a bit overpaid at that level of production, but he'd be an overpaid decent player, as opposed to an overpaid catastrophe.
Looked ok in that he didn't botch any routine plays. Hanley really didn't have any chances that didn't consist of catching a direct throw and wasn't tested yesterday. It will be much easier to judge him once that first and second ball in the dirt come his way.
I would tend to agree with this. He seems to be all in on this. It started with his offseason work to get a little more lean and agile, continued with him putting in the time and energy with Butter and he continues to show that he is invested in his growth as well as aware of his progress or weaknesses.
I think the book on Hanley has always been that when he is engaged and cares he is a beast but he also is vulnerable to losing focus and sleepwalking through months at a time like Manny sometimes did. The early returns on 2016 show signs that he is currently the former. The heads up baserunning, effort and base stealing are all great signs. Let's just hope he stays in that mindset all season
Looks to me like his footwork on the bag when receiving throws needs work. Doesn't always know where the bag is.
Still, I think he deserves a lot of credit.
Still, I think he deserves a lot of credit.
He was out of position on a throw back into the infield. I forget if that runner making it to second vs staying at first ended resulting in a run or not.
Not the worst mistake in the world and we had an entire these damning Clay last year for the same, but hoping it's an easy thing for staff to recognize and make sure to reinforce during practice.
Not the worst mistake in the world and we had an entire these damning Clay last year for the same, but hoping it's an easy thing for staff to recognize and make sure to reinforce during practice.
Did not result in a run.
The overall on Hanley is extremely optimistic. Spent the offseason getting in tremendous shape. Smoking ball opposite field. Doing everything he can to learn first. Saying and doing the right things. There's going to be some bumps, but overall this is about as good as we could have hoped for if we snapshot our 2016 projection on 10/1/15.
The overall on Hanley is extremely optimistic. Spent the offseason getting in tremendous shape. Smoking ball opposite field. Doing everything he can to learn first. Saying and doing the right things. There's going to be some bumps, but overall this is about as good as we could have hoped for if we snapshot our 2016 projection on 10/1/15.
This is so stupid two games into the season, but I'll add my $.02
I thought it was lame to blame injuries on his lack of production last year because I didn't think they were legit. He was not hitting the ball with authority for several months and he has been crushing the ball from spring training on like he was in April last year.
It looks good that he is doing so, and hopefully the injury excuse was a real thing and was his main issue (as well as the mental stuff from LF).
I thought it was lame to blame injuries on his lack of production last year because I didn't think they were legit. He was not hitting the ball with authority for several months and he has been crushing the ball from spring training on like he was in April last year.
It looks good that he is doing so, and hopefully the injury excuse was a real thing and was his main issue (as well as the mental stuff from LF).
This is true.
The Hanley-to-1B experiment is starting out just about as good as anyone could have reasonably expected.
What? He smoked the ball last April, hurt his shoulder, and then failed to smoke the ball the rest of the season. I mean, how much more of a cause-and-effect did you want?
Agreed. I think he's in a for a big rebound season. At the end of the day it's never going to be a great contract but it won't be the black hole people thought it was at the end of 2015. Panda is looking more like the lost cause.
If we could wash 2015 and the move to left field from our brains, we wouldn't be at all worried about a 32 year old third baseman moving to first. We'd probably be actively pushing for it if it hadn't already happened. But the early evidence is encouraging. He likes the infield, that seems fairly obvious and it is clearly translating to his attitude.
Part of it is liking it, but part of it is having confidence that it will work. I think he underestimated how hard it would be (for him, at least) to play LF, no matter how much work he put in. Sometimes people just suck at things. Infield, in a general sense, is something he knows and knows he can do. That goes a long way to success in any endeavor. He's human.
I wonder if part of his enthusiasm for this is due to the fact that there is a now a clear path for him for the next few years-at this time last year, Ortiz hadn't yet announced his retirement, so the plan was basically "Put Hanley in LF and see what happens, both short and long term." Knowing that he can move to DH next year may take some of the pressure of him, and make it easier for him to adjust to 1B.
Hanley turning into a credible 1B makes Panda's contract turning into a lost cause much more likely, but only because he'll be actively used in a bench role.
Yesterday Farrell commented about his intended use of Young to PH for whichever of Shaw or Holt or Bradley first face a LH specialist reliever, see here. That plan will require keeping both Panda and Castillo on the MLB bench so that the IF/OF defense can shift around the various CF/LF/3B options.
Of course, the plan seems particularly odd to me, but that's because those three guys all carry reverse splits at the plate over their respective MLB careers.
Regardless, good on Hanley for helping make Farrell's plan work.
He never went on the DL from the shoulder injury, so evidently no one in the front office believed it was serious.
Right, some one playing through an injury and having their performance suffer would be unprecedented. Gotcha.
That's quite a fallacy. Players play through pain that should DL them all the time, often to their detriment. Lackey pitched all of 2011 with a torn UCL and never went on the DL for it (he was on the DL early in the year with an "elbow strain" but came back and pitched the rest of the season, making 28 starts when he should have made 0).
Hanley played through the injury. It affected his hitting, obviously, since he hit 10 HRs in April and 9 the rest of the way.
On May 4 Hanley was hitting .283/.340/.609 when he ran into a wall. He didn't play for five days after that so he could recover, which obviously wasn't sufficient, as he hit .239/.275/.372 the rest of the season.
I don't know how you can say that wasn't a "legit" injury.
I think this is an underrated negative of the Sox over the last few years: the reluctance to put someone on the DL when dinged up. It has two negative repercussions:
1. The team is forced to play with a short bench
2. The player invariably comes back too soon without truly healing
I seem to recall that someone here studied this, perhaps about Sandoval and Hanley last year? But it seems like Pedroia has also been a problem in this regard, and some others I'm sure.
I would hope that DD will bring a more aggressive use of the 15-day DL, leveraging the utility across positions of Holt, Shaw, Marrero, and Rusney.
I think the plan looks slightly less odd if you look at it not so much as a way to avoid a weakness in Shaw/Holt/Bradley but as a way to get Young, Pablo and Rusney into games on a regular basis.
And I'm glad my judgment was wrong, but I don't think I was on an island on this issue either. But again, my reasoning is mostly based on the decision to not DL him since they are privy to his medical records. The fact that his hitting has fluctuated dramatically from one year to the next and he was moving to the AL and learning a new position could have also contributed to him not hitting.
I mean, if anyone needed at least a 15 day mental rest period even if they didn't believe it was serious, it was him, but they never granted it to him for whatever reason, even with their advanced metrics we'll never see.
It's not as though they can unilaterally put him on the DL if he doesn't feel he needs it. If there was nothing structurally wrong with his shoulder that prevented him from playing, then the decision to sit and/or go on the DL is entirely up to Hanley and his comfort level and pain tolerance. That doesn't mean his decision to play through it was the correct one, but it is still his decision to make.
And if he comes out and says he doesn't want to be on the DL, that he's not hurt and can play, then what? MLBPA gets involved with grievances. Maybe MLB looks into it as a misuse of the disabled list.
Sorry, no, they can't just put him on the DL if he says he's good to go and medically they can't find anything wrong with him.
I seem to remember the announcers say that the runner may have held at first if the cutoff man was in place. I also wonder if it is possible that with him being out of place, if that could have had something to do with JBJ's off line throw.
What a coincidence that these issues showed up, after a red hot first month, just when he ran into the wall. Amazing coincidence.
This is total nonsense, because none of us here have the slightest bit of information regarding his mental state at any point in time.
Come on, man. Stop wishcasting for this mentally weak stuff.
As for his hitting, his only other full year in the majors were he did not have a very good offensive system was 2011, when his OPS+ was 95....when he got hurt diving for a ball and missed half the season with a (wait for it).....shoulder injury.
Yes, his hitting has fluctuated at other times, from "very good" (2006, 2012) to "holy shit that's incredible" (2007-2010; 2013-2014). When he's been healthy he's always hit.
Also, he was hit in the left hand on June 24, 11 months after he was hit in the left hand twice in the same game by Cardinals fastballs (a 99 mph on from Martinez, then another from Rosenthal)...
...which was after our own Joe Kelly broke one of his ribs in the NLCS.
I don't think you can ignore the sinister events.
...which was after our own Joe Kelly broke one of his ribs in the NLCS.
I don't think you can ignore the sinister events.
Right, and getting Young into games I can understand. At least when it involves him mashing against LHP. If it were simply Farrell laying out how he hopes to regularly use Young to hit for Holt against a tough LHP in key situations, and then sub in Castillo at LF for better defense...that makes sense.
But the way I read the article, Farrell's plans include substituting Pablo's defense for Shaw's in the late innings, when Shaw's the better defender at 3B...or alternatively substituting Castillo's defense for Bradley's in the late innings, when Bradley's the better defender at CF...and moving Holt from LF to 3B and perhaps back to LF or over to CF...that stuff I don't really get.
Fortunately, Hanley's showing enough that the machinations don't have to involve arcane rotations involving Shaw moving across the diamond to play 1B, as well.
I remember Hanley running into a wall pretty vividly last year, I thought he was done for at least a month when it happened and the gamethread sentiment was somewhat similar. Regardless of whether or not there was enough injury there to force him to the DL, lingering pain and uncertainty definitely contributed to Hanley's post-April 2015 decline.
