Nothing is dirtier than the Brown hit. And it is bungled because they had the ball with less than 2 minutes left with a lead and somehow turned that into 30 yards of personal fouls and a loss. They showed less than no composure or game awareness.
Porter is on the field because they were trying to reattach Brown's head to his body and they needed somebody strong.I can't agree with the sentiment that this was bungled. Yes, they made some dumb mistakes but:
- that shazier hit was dirtier than either the brown or Wheaton hit and led to an important change of possession
- what was Joey porter doing on the field? How is a linebackers coach provoking an opposing player not a penalty?
They had some awful calls against them. Plus, give them a healthy dalton and that game is totally different
nothumb continues to post hilarious stuff without a digit.Porter is on the field because they were trying to reattach Brown's head to his body and they needed somebody strong.
Every single word you write here is incorrect, including "and" and "the."I can't agree with the sentiment that this was bungled. Yes, they made some dumb mistakes but:
- that shazier hit was dirtier than either the brown or Wheaton hit and led to an important change of possession
- what was Joey porter doing on the field? How is a linebackers coach provoking an opposing player not a penalty?
They had some awful calls against them. Plus, give them a healthy dalton and that game is totally different
Pittsburgh had three timeouts; the Bengals couldn't have kneeled the game out.Every single word you write here is incorrect, including "and" and "the."
Notwithstanding anything else that happened, the Bengals had the ball and the game if they simply take a knee three times. They chose not to and it bit them in the ass. Then they compounded their idiocy by losing their composure, committing one horrendous foul and one horrendously stupid foul to seal their fate.
All the bad officiating in the world can't wipe the Bengal's stink off this one.
They would have forced the Steelers to burn all of their timeouts and then kicked a field goal.Pittsburgh had three timeouts; the Bengals couldn't have kneeled the game out.
Mike Brown is too cheap to pay for Tom Coughlin though that is exactly what he needs.As a longtime PIT fan, this CIN team reminds me of the Bill Cowher Steeler teams that went 1-4 in home AFCCs before finally breaking through in the SB XL season. They had so much talent but they were deep inside their own head with the accumulating pressure of home playoff losses and when they would start to unspool Cowher had absolutely no ability to get them refocused. They need a fresh start at HC because they have more good players at more positions than anybody in the AFC. Time for Coughlin??
All true. Yet, it is also true that with the game on the line, the Burfict and Jones committed no-doubt personal fouls, and Hill fumbled. So while there was no reason for Porter to be on the field, Jones still punched him and while Shazier's hit was both more reckless and dangerous, and got no flag, Burfict's hit was also illegal and should have been penalized. And Hill's fumble was...Hil's fumble.I can't agree with the sentiment that this was bungled. Yes, they made some dumb mistakes but:
- that shazier hit was dirtier than either the brown or Wheaton hit and led to an important change of possession
- what was Joey porter doing on the field? How is a linebackers coach provoking an opposing player not a penalty?
They had some awful calls against them. Plus, give them a healthy dalton and that game is totally different
Who would fucking do that? Take 3 knees, attempt a 45 yard fg, and give it back to Pitt with a chance to win.They would have forced the Steelers to burn all of their timeouts and then kicked a field goal.
The ball (and the game) was in the Bengals' hands and they gave it away.
There's another choice. Take 3 knees and then punt to around the 10 or less. No scenario is without risk but Pittsburgh would have had no time outs and a LONG field to go. And not much time.Who would fucking do that? Take 3 knees, attempt a 45 yard fg, and give it back to Pitt with a chance to win.
Or
Get a first down and end the game.
Your last sentence nails it. I made the same remark during / after the week 14 matchup. The Bengals just wanted to be seen as the tougher team results be damnedYeah, I get all of the complaining about the unsportsmanlike flag, but
1) This wasn't a post-TD or 4th down stop or whatever celebration that turned into a trash talk scuffle. It was the Bengals players being pissed that a completely dirty hit was actually called. So the players are out there trash talking the refs, the Steelers, and a guy who may or may not be dead while said guy is lying motionless on the ground and the concussion protocol is being followed. So perhaps the refs were more keyed up to bad behavior.
2) I think it is really hard to tell if Porter was out there with the medical staff out of concern for Brown or just out there to trash talk, and we can all agree that he shouldn't be engaging any Bengals. That said just like every other league, it is often more dangerous to retaliate, especially when your retaliation is also escalation, and especially when you have so much to lose. So all the talk about Joey Porter shouldn't have even been on the field really don't excuse Pacman running up to him to shove him away WITH THE REFS STANDING RIGHT FUCKING THERE and trying to bully through a ref to do it.
3) I'm of two minds on whether the refs should have been more conservative. First, I think sure, this is an elimination game so you don't want to decide it with flags. So, only throw it if you have no other choice. On the other hand, rules are rules and letting them be fluid just because of the importance of the game undermines their validity. But then again, the refs allowed the game to get out of hand in the first place. What it seems to me happened is that the refs were trying to get Porter away from the Bengals players and de-escalate the situation then Pacman forced their hands with his inability to keep cool.
4) All the whining about Porter misses the point that the first flag was completely legit, a total cheap shot, completely unnecessary, and unbelievably and unforgivably stupid given the context. Yay you get to express your hatred for the Steelers with a cheap shot. That's the best outcome. Literally, there was nothing else the hit could accomplish. The downside? A penalty that is called almost every single time which happens to put your opponent in FG range and allows them to use their remaining time to get closer instead of in complete desperation. When you care more about laying a guy out than winning the game, you are destined to be a loser.
The notion of Tom Coughlin coming in to be the new sheriff in town really feels like a PR dream for the NFL to get past this mess. I did a quick Google search just now and didn't see any other articles throwing this idea out there, but I have to believe Goodell is making some calls.Mike Brown is too cheap to pay for Tom Coughlin though that is exactly what he needs.
In normal conditions I would absolutely agree. In last night's conditions, I'd take three knees and if the field goal was too risky, I'd pin them back with no timeouts.Who would fucking do that? Take 3 knees, attempt a 45 yard fg, and give it back to Pitt with a chance to win.
Or
Get a first down and end the game.
I like Tom Coughlin, but have we forgotten that just 3 weeks ago he enabled close to criminal on-field behavior by OBJ for about 3/4 of the game, because he placed winning over doing the right thing. They need the Tom Coughlin of a decade ago, not the Coughlin of today. It would be a PR move, nothing more.Mike Brown is too cheap to pay for Tom Coughlin though that is exactly what he needs.
Exactly right. Any talk of kneeling in that situation is 20/20 hindsight. Even a successful FG does not end the game, and a miss practically hands the game away on a silver platter.Who would fucking do that? Take 3 knees, attempt a 45 yard fg, and give it back to Pitt with a chance to win.
Or
Get a first down and end the game.
Running with the right move. Going for the extra yard in lieu of ball security was not the right move. Hill is off the hook a bit because of the personal fouls, but that was a historically bad fumble.Exactly right. Any talk of kneeling in that situation is 20/20 hindsight. Even a successful FG does not end the game, and a miss practically hands the game away on a silver platter.
Edit to add: And kneel-punt is also a poor choice when the opponent only needs a FG with that amount of time remaining. Obviously, turning the ball over while playing for a first down was a terrible outcome, but it was still a low-probability event at the outset.
Go back and look at the post I made that KFP responded to and that kicked off this line.Exactly right. Any talk of kneeling in that situation is 20/20 hindsight. Even a successful FG does not end the game, and a miss practically hands the game away on a silver platter.
Edit to add: And kneel-punt is also a poor choice when the opponent only needs a FG with that amount of time remaining. Obviously, turning the ball over while playing for a first down was a terrible outcome, but it was still a low-probability event at the outset.
I saw that Deion dissertation too and he must have said "he could have cleaned him up" or "he didn't clean him up" half a dozen times. Made me think a hall of fame DB that is on NFLN all the time, and is well respected, could be using a phrase that sounded less thug-like than "clean him up". Or maybe that's an OK phrase? Deion did take the DB side, but I think he's wrong. Burfict had the time to not hit Brown. The ball was well gone and even though it might have been just a second or two, that's enough time for players used to the high speed game the NFL is to pull up and keep the game out of the hands of the refs.I wasn't convinced that Burfict's hit was dirty watching the game. Then Deion Sanders and LDT talked and re-enacted the Burfict hit on Brown for almost twenty minutes last night – and I'm even less sure. Deion made a pretty convincing case that VB's move to turn his body away from Brown, hence exposing his shoulder, combined with him going low so as not to target his head (which happened to be lower as he fell to the ground), is what happens when you are going full speed. He was pretty passionate about it and showed how it could happen.
Obviously a guy like Burfict doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. But I think there is a better case to be made in Cincy's defense than is probably being acknowledged.
But it does burn the timeouts. That is not an insignificant factor.Kneeling also turns a 45-yarder into a 48, doesn't take any time off the clock and puts the ball at the 38 if you miss, which was hardly an impossibility in the rain with a below-average kicker. Running the ball was absolutely the right move.
Umm, so does running the ball? You can't be scared of the worst-case scenario when the positives well outweigh the negatives. It sucks that he fumbled, but you have to run the ball. If he doesn't fumble the game has a decent chance of being over since he got six yards on first down, and even if it isn't you're making it a closer FG and burning multiple seconds each play.But it does burn the timeouts. That is not an insignificant factor.
I agree. I said running was the right move. But your analysis literally ignored the timeouts.Umm, so does running the ball? You can't be scared of the worst-case scenario when the positives well outweigh the negatives. It sucks that he fumbled, but you have to run the ball. If he doesn't fumble the game has a decent chance of being over since he got six yards on first down, and even if it isn't you're making it a closer FG and burning multiple seconds each play.
Kneeling also turns a 45-yarder into a 48, doesn't take any time off the clock and puts the ball at the 38 if you miss, which was hardly an impossibility in the rain with a below-average kicker. Running the ball was absolutely the right move.
Dude, running the ball implies them using timeouts. If you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you.I agree. I said running was the right move. But your analysis literally ignored the timeouts.
You can tell me I'm handsome.Dude, running the ball implies them using timeouts. If you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you.
And a professional running back doesn't fumble 98% of the time. Cincy was absolutely playing the odds here.Cincy started with the ball at the 25, making 3 kneel downs a 45 yarder. Absolutely not a given FG but one and professional kicker makes roughly 85% of the time. I still take my chances this way where missing means Pitt has no TO and 45 yards of field to be in a position to win.
I think the odds are greater that Pitt does not get into the end zone with a minute and change left, needing 80 yards of field (assuming FG is made and KO is not returned) no TO, down 4, using a backup, in horrible conditions.And a professional running back doesn't fumble 98% of the time. Cincy was absolutely playing the odds here.
It was the 26, so three kneels put the ball at the 29 which makes it a 47-yarder. It's a kick Nugent should make, but hardly a guarantee given the distance, rain and that he's not very good. A miss puts it at the 37 where the Steelers likely only need a little under 30 yards to get in Boswell's range. It also doesn't burn any clock or obviously give you a chance to win the game right there. You can't coach scared of a RB fumbling.Cincy started with the ball at the 25, making 3 kneel downs a 45 yarder. Absolutely not a given FG but one and professional kicker makes roughly 85% of the time. I still take my chances this way where missing means Pitt has no TO and 45 yards of field to be in a position to win.
Taking 3 knees and attempting a long FG in weather does not win the game even if successful. Running for a potential 1st down does have an outcome of winning the game. I support the decision to try to win the game right there by running.