Yet Another Referendum on Richard Sherman

Al Zarilla

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patinorange said:
His interviews after the game were just perfect. Not all in your face about God. Just
"Blessed". He seemed genuinely humble.
A little different and refreshing. Can you imagine if Sherman made the equivalent game saving play?
That's what on/off switches are for. 
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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patinorange said:
His interviews after the game were just perfect. Not all in your face about God. Just
"Blessed". He seemed genuinely humble.
A little different and refreshing. Can you imagine if Sherman made the equivalent game saving play?
 
 
Not to hijack the thread but I am a fan of Richard Sherman -  the guy is a very good football player, an extremely bright guy and he makes the game more fun.  I have said this before but I would love him as a Patriot and I suspect many others here would too.  If these videos and mic'd up pieces tell you anything, its that the NFL (and other pro sports) has guys constantly going at one another verbally as well as physically.  Some guys, such as Sherman, are just better than it than others. 
 

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
 
 
Not to hijack the thread but I am a fan of Richard Sherman -  the guy is a very good football player, an extremely bright guy and he makes the game more fun.  I have said this before but I would love him as a Patriot and I suspect many others here would too.  If these videos and mic'd up pieces tell you anything, its that the NFL (and other pro sports) has guys constantly going at one anther verbally as well as physically.  Some guys, such as Sherman, are just better than it than others. 
My favorite part of mic'd up or turning point was how much JE was talking shit to Sherman... Saying how he wasn't big enough to worry about... And then ends with 'He talks too much."... Which is sort of hilarious.
 

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
 
 
Not to hijack the thread but I am a fan of Richard Sherman -  the guy is a very good football player, an extremely bright guy and he makes the game more fun.  I have said this before but I would love him as a Patriot and I suspect many others here would too.  If these videos and mic'd up pieces tell you anything, its that the NFL (and other pro sports) has guys constantly going at one another verbally as well as physically.  Some guys, such as Sherman, are just better than it than others. 
 
Sherman has said publicly that he was very reserved growing up. There is substantial reason to believe, imo, that he developed that persona for competition.
 
I mean, if you really watch the famous "out burst," you don't see a guy who's carried away--heck, he even stops to let Andrews ask a follow up question which he listens to. He also greets Andrews warmly and hugs her before the interview.
 
The thing was an act and America bought it. There's a gif of the hug here along with many other reasons explaining how awesome he is. Check out 19 on his charity work and this on his anti-bullying work.
 
I know this is a bit off topic for the thread, but I think we can afford to be magnanimous in victory--much like Sherman himself was.
 

Super Nomario

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There is no Rev said:
 
Sherman has said publicly that he was very reserved growing up. There is substantial reason to believe, imo, that he developed that persona for competition.
 
I mean, if you really watch the famous "out burst," you don't see a guy who's carried away--heck, he even stops to let Andrews ask a follow up question which he listens to. He also greets Andrews warmly and hugs her before the interview.
 
The thing was an act and America bought it. There's a gif of the hug here along with many other reasons explaining how awesome he is. Check out 19 on his charity work and this on his anti-bullying work.
 
I know this is a bit off topic for the thread, but I think we can afford to be magnanimous in victory--much like Sherman himself was.
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not inclined to look more favorably at Sherman's public persona if it's fabricated. That's essentially what Skip Bayless does, and is anyone worse than Skip Bayless? In general I've enjoyed Sherman's pieces on MMQB and found his perspective to be thoughtful. I'd much rather see that dude that a WWE-style heel.
 

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Super Nomario said:
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not inclined to look more favorably at Sherman's public persona if it's fabricated. That's essentially what Skip Bayless does, and is anyone worse than Skip Bayless? In general I've enjoyed Sherman's pieces on MMQB and found his perspective to be thoughtful. I'd much rather see that dude that a WWE-style heel.
 
Oh, I wasn't asking anyone to. I meant that it might help him get up for the game--or maybe he thinks it does. If so, I generally don't hold anything against a guy looking for an edge so long as it's within the rules.
 
What I was addressing is the perception that he's out of control. He's very, very controlled. People may still dislike it, but the facts should at least be straight.
 

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And yeah, Skip Bayless really is the worst.
 

lars10

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There is no Rev said:
 
Oh, I wasn't asking anyone to. I meant that it might help him get up for the game--or maybe he thinks it does. If so, I generally don't hold anything against a guy looking for an edge so long as it's within the rules.
 
What I was addressing is the perception that he's out of control. He's very, very controlled. People may still dislike it, but the facts should at least be straight.
Ok..I understand he's very intelligent and controlled..seems very smart. So what advantage does he gain going off after the Super Bowl is over and they'd won? He's looking to next year? I think he's generally in control but he's also human... Some of it is an act but I also think some of it is real for a variety of reasons...because you need a huge ego to be a top end corner.
 

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lars10 said:
Ok..I understand he's very intelligent and controlled..seems very smart. So what advantage does he gain going off after the Super Bowl is over and they'd won? He's looking to next year? I think he's generally in control but he's also human... Some of it is an act but I also think some of it is real for a variety of reasons...because you need a huge ego to be a top end corner.
 
Michael Crabtree is not on the Denver Broncos.
 
I don't know why people keep screwing this up.
 
This is Sherman after the Super Bowl:
 
https://twitter.com/RSherman_25/status/430214142398849024
 
https://twitter.com/RSherman_25/status/430214365594546176
 

IdiotKicker

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There is no Rev said:
 
Sherman has said publicly that he was very reserved growing up. There is substantial reason to believe, imo, that he developed that persona for competition.
 
I mean, if you really watch the famous "out burst," you don't see a guy who's carried away--heck, he even stops to let Andrews ask a follow up question which he listens to. He also greets Andrews warmly and hugs her before the interview.
 
The thing was an act and America bought it. There's a gif of the hug here along with many other reasons explaining how awesome he is. Check out 19 on his charity work and this on his anti-bullying work.
 
I know this is a bit off topic for the thread, but I think we can afford to be magnanimous in victory--much like Sherman himself was.
My freshman year of college, when I was still playing soccer, I was really reserved as well. And part of the reason I ended up having to quit soccer was because I got eaten up by the guys on the team. It wasn't malicious, but I never got off to a good start with the coach, and it spiraled downhill from there. I just didn't hve enough of an edge after playing for some uncompetitive high school teams.

So I decided I wasn't going to do that anymore. So I started talking. And it became something that allowed me to be more comfortable on the field. I had been so reserved and so tightly wound that I wasn't able to let my ability out the right way. But it wasn't unusual for me to be playing scout team and talking shit to our defense any time I made a play on real football players.

My senior year, I got beaten out for the starting spot by a freshman who was admittedly better than me. I was pissed for about two days and then decided to do what I needed to do to support him. But I still kept talking because it was who I was at that point. I did it differently, in ways to challenge him, but I still kept the competitiveness going. Hell, at the end of the season, one of my teammates came up to me and said verbatim, "When I first met you I thought you were a huge asshole but then I realized that all you wanted to do was compete every day to make us better. And I know that if anyone ever comes against us you have our backs."

And what happened is that even today, I still do it. I'll walk into work on a Monday and talk shit to get people fired up. Different way, different style, but it's how I'm built now. Are there times when it's grating and annoys people? Yup, no doubt about it. Sometimes I take it too far and have to dial it back. But it isn't an act now. It's who I am. And I would imagine Sherman is the same. And ultra-competitive dude who found a way to channel his energy to make himself better.
 

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Super Nomario said:
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not inclined to look more favorably at Sherman's public persona if it's fabricated. That's essentially what Skip Bayless does, and is anyone worse than Skip Bayless? In general I've enjoyed Sherman's pieces on MMQB and found his perspective to be thoughtful. I'd much rather see that dude that a WWE-style heel.
 
Last I checked Skip Bayless never backed up his whole persona whereas Sherman is one of the top 2 CBs in the league.  Sherman realizes that his life cycle in the NFL is extremely short and is doing the most to maximize his value/earnings while he is relevant.  
 

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He's intensely competitive and talks trash, which most of the time gets backed up. Sounds like two of my favorite athletes of my lifetime, Larry Bird and Pedro Martinez.
 
Even the "calling out Brady" stuff this year and the previous season was overblown. In this interview he is affable, having a good time, and totally gives Brady props. I would love to have him on the Pats.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdD5PlDAT6A
 

Super Nomario

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wibi said:
Last I checked Skip Bayless never backed up his whole persona whereas Sherman is one of the top 2 CBs in the league.
For sure. Sherman is a smart guy that's awesome at football and has built an obnoxious persona for himself. Bayless is a useless hack who has built an obnoxious persona for himself. The analogy extends only as far as the obnoxious personas - there's substance under Sherman that isn't there with Bayless.
 
wibi said:
Sherman realizes that his life cycle in the NFL is extremely short and is doing the most to maximize his value/earnings while he is relevant.
Good for him, I guess. I'm not really buying what he's selling there, but it seems like it's not for everybody by design.
 

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He's a smart guy and knows how to market himself. He's also an amazing football player. I'd love to have him on the Pats. Simple.
 

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SMU_Sox said:
He's a smart guy and knows how to market himself. He's also an amazing football player. I'd love to have him on the Pats. Simple.
 
I just cannot bring myself to hate on the guy. Even when he's mouthing off. Who cares if it's a manufactured image (which I do not think it is)? Ultra-competitive, smart, articulate, no trouble off the field, and has a great sense of humor. 
 
It reminds me of how I used to "hate" Revis because he played for the Jets and was just so good. And this little bit a few years back:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_exmr3CTtaM
 

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Some of the best SB XLIX audio is the Edelman-Sherman repartee. #25 is a trash-talker, sure, but he does it with a wink. I sense no malice or even real disrespect there. This isn't Lucic to Weise territory, not even close.

The handshake with Brady does speak volumes, I think.

He's a hell of a player, he's full of life, and he likes to ham it up. I really can't hate this guy, at all.
 

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wibi said:
 
Last I checked Skip Bayless never backed up his whole persona whereas Sherman is one of the top 2 CBs in the league.  Sherman realizes that his life cycle in the NFL is extremely short and is doing the most to maximize his value/earnings while he is relevant.  
Let's let Richard Sherman judge Skip Bayless, shall we?
http://youtu.be/nun5scYroxA
 

Tony C

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Skip Bayless and Richard Sherman basically have the same schtick: they're both very good at their jobs -- Bayless gets eyeballs and Sherman shuts down receivers -- and as part of their schtick they act like obnoxious assholes. I have no doubt that they go home and laugh about it. But I do think it's kind of weird to like either one of them, even if one can admire the job the day and in no way hate them.
 

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Tony C said:
I have no doubt that they go home and laugh about it. 
 
Sherman, sure. Bayless, not so much.
 
 

Bayless was named after his father, christened John Edward II, but was always called Skip. He was the oldest of three children and his parents owned a barbecue restaurant in Oklahoma City. Both of his parents, he says, were alcoholics, and his father was particularly rough with him. “My father was just an evil man,” he says.
 
Looking back, Bayless says a cold, distant upbringing might have been essential. “It was all meant to be. . . . I was on my own from the start,” he says. “You have to become self-sufficient and emotionally tough. I wouldn’t have been as good growing up under different circumstances.”
 
Bayless calls himself the black sheep in a family that was all-in on the restaurant business. Bayless’s brother has credited their father and their Hickory House restaurant with his own success. Three years younger, Rick Bayless stuck around food. He became a popular television chef on PBS, published nine books, opened some of Chicago’s best restaurants and is a favorite of the Obamas.
 
He declined to be interviewed for this story but has never publicly lamented his upbringing and has cited his father as his greatest influence. Among the most well-known siblings on television, Skip and Rick Bayless have virtually no relationship today.
 
 
 

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I loved having Manny on the Red Sox because he was awesome, but Manny was often an asshole. Sherman crosses the line to say shit to players publicly. He is a dick. The fact he is articulate and kind in other situations does not make the asshole side of him go away. The 2 4 stunt to that camera was childish.Of course I'd love him on the Pats. I loved Schilling on the Sox, and he didn't start being an asshole this just year.
 
The thing is so many people I despise hope for Sherman to fail, you almost want to root for him, but he does act like dipshit by taking his trash talk public.
 

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lars10

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There is no Rev said:
 
Michael Crabtree is not on the Denver Broncos.
 
I don't know why people keep screwing this up.
 
This is Sherman after the Super Bowl:
 
https://twitter.com/RSherman_25/status/430214142398849024
 
https://twitter.com/RSherman_25/status/430214365594546176
You're absolutely right... the super bowl was so non-competitive that I'd totally forgotten that the NFC championship game wasn't it.
 
My fault.
 

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Super Nomario said:
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not inclined to look more favorably at Sherman's public persona if it's fabricated. That's essentially what Skip Bayless does, and is anyone worse than Skip Bayless? In general I've enjoyed Sherman's pieces on MMQB and found his perspective to be thoughtful. I'd much rather see that dude that a WWE-style heel.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoWEESRrNK8
 
No offense, but you're not the intended target on the "heel" portion of this marketing pass. The heel sells, in a very big way, and like Revis always says, "maximize your value". Keeping the thoughtful guy around as well proves Sherman understands Will's Rule on Performance very, very well.
 
If Sherman is anything, he's a chaotic good version of Harvey Dent/Two-Face. 
 

dcmissle

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His move against Revis was low rent, his move to Brady at the end of the game classy. Like most of us, he is not one thing.
 

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He's someone whose antics annoy me very much at times. At the same time, I also can realize that they are part of a self-image, a brand name, that he is trying to craft for himself. 

Also at the same time, if he were to somehow end up on the Patriots, I would be incredibly excited. Like, get an instant erection excited. 

 
 

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Count me among those who can't stand him or his antics. But solely because he's not in a Patriots uniform. I would love for him to be our asshole and would eat up his bullshit if he were.
 

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It's impressive that he has become a known name by casual fans in a sport that by design has a short list of name recognition. Mostly offensive specialists (QB's, RB's, WR's) or sack artists (LT, Strahan).

Doing so in a non-NY or traditionally big NFL market, it's even more impressive. The fact that he is in fact good at his job is secondary to how/why non-NFL fans know who he is.
 

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He's hyper self-aware. He's the perfect athlete for today's media landscape.
Whether that makes him more or less likable is tough to say, but it certainly makes him more interesting, IMO.
 

Al Zarilla

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Sometimes he is so full of shit it's coming out his ears, like when he said about Brady, maybe after the interception by Wagner: "In a wired segment for Inside The NFL, which will also be shown on NFL Network at 9 p.m. ET Wednesday, the outspoken cornerback tells his teammates that Brady is "scared, his heart's gone. It's almost gone." 
 
Sure, Brady's heart is gone. Give me a break. 
 

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Al Zarilla said:
Sometimes he is so full of shit it's coming out his ears, like when he said about Brady, maybe after the interception by Wagner: "In a wired segment for Inside The NFL, which will also be shown on NFL Network at 9 p.m. ET Wednesday, the outspoken cornerback tells his teammates that Brady is "scared, his heart's gone. It's almost gone." 
 
Sure, Brady's heart is gone. Give me a break. 
 
Perhaps he was telling Wagner what he needed to hear at that point in the game and not reporting iron clad facts? The narrative that if you pressure Brady and make him uncomfortable, he can be beaten, especially in the Super Bowl, is pretty common. 
 

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RoyHobbs said:
He's intensely competitive and talks trash, which most of the time gets backed up. Sounds like two of my favorite athletes of my lifetime, Larry Bird and Pedro Martinez.
 
Even the "calling out Brady" stuff this year and the previous season was overblown. In this interview he is affable, having a good time, and totally gives Brady props. I would love to have him on the Pats.
 
That is so not how it sounded in my head when I read the transcripts. That sounds like a funny story about the kinds of trash talking that probably goes on behind the scenes all the time. Putting myself in those shoes and I'd do the same thing, then laugh about it.

He got a taste of his own medicine at the super bowl. Got to be a meme for a day. The price of being the kind of guy he is, which is about 98% pretty admirable from what I'm reading herE, is occasionally putttung his foot in his mouth. Whoopity doo. You have to dig through the media blasted soundbytes to appreciate what he brings to the game. Kinda like a certain team we root for.
 

Al Zarilla

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Gunfighter 09 said:
 
Perhaps he was telling Wagner what he needed to hear at that point in the game and not reporting iron clad facts? The narrative that if you pressure Brady and make him uncomfortable, he can be beaten, especially in the Super Bowl, is pretty common. 
But I don't think you could ever say Brady has lost his heart, at least in his career to date. Trying to thing of another QB you could say that about. Tony Eason in SB20? Jay Cutler sometimes? I don't know. If a guy makes it all the way to starting pro QB, does he ever "lose his heart"? Meh, I guess a lot of guys say things in the heat of battle that don't really make sense. 
 

JBill

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Al Zarilla said:
I guess a lot of guys say things in the heat of battle that don't really make sense. 
I didn't even blink when I heard it, it wasn't his sober assessment of Brady's career to date, just a way to pump up his teammates and encourage them to step on the opponent's throat in the middle of the Superbowl.
 

The Social Chair

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I really don't understand how anybody could dislike Sherman. The 24 and Brady stuff is so innocuous. Patriot players have done stuff like that over the years and it doesn't bother me at all.
 

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Sherman is a huge personality wrapped up in a shut-down corner.
His boastful trash-talk is backed up by his play, and I'm just thankful we didn't see the next iteration "you mad bro" at game's end, but rather saw a display of good sportsmanship.
 
The narrative that if you pressure Brady and make him uncomfortable, he can be beaten, especially in the Super Bowl, is pretty common
 
I've heard G-Men pontificate on this point. I think most QBs get uncomfortable under pressure. 
 
and fwiw, the bigger Brady narrative should be "you better pull a huge play out of your ass with 2 minutes to go" if you want to beat the guy in the Super Bowl.
 

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Sherman's shtick is contrived and unoriginal. I've yet to hear a funny word come out of his mouth.

That said, he's a great player and I have no problem with him doing his thing. My impression is that outside of his heel persona, he's a pretty good dude.
 

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The Social Chair said:
I really don't understand how anybody could dislike Sherman. The 24 and Brady stuff is so innocuous. Patriot players have done stuff like that over the years and it doesn't bother me at all.
 
The stuff with Crabtree has been quite classless. And the faux-handshake thing was such a passive aggressive pose...trash talking is great, and I have no reason to like/dislike Sherman, but it is incredibly posed in his case. Someone in a different thread compared how Butler reacted to how Sherman would have: you really couldn't understand how someone might dislike Sherman if he had pulled similar stuff to what he did after the 49er INT? Running to Brady and sticking out his hand for a fake handshake, screaming about what sorry ass cheating losers the Pats are, what an overrated QB Brady is, how dare anyone compare him to Revis/24, etc etc? I mean I agree it's stupid to react strongly against this sort of thing, but the idea that no one would find it unlikeable is equally over the top as hating him.
 
 
MarcSullivaFan said:
Sherman's shtick is contrived and unoriginal. I've yet to hear a funny word come out of his mouth.

That said, he's a great player and I have no problem with him doing his thing. My impression is that outside of his heel persona, he's a pretty good dude.
 
The interviews in New Orleans he did asking guys on the street who the best CB is, he or Revis , were definitely pretty funny and smart. The way guys would trash him as an adderall guy and he just took it with a smile was well done.
 
Mostly you're right..it is contrived, but I did think that was pretty cool.
 

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Al Zarilla said:
Sometimes he is so full of shit it's coming out his ears, like when he said about Brady, maybe after the interception by Wagner: "In a wired segment for Inside The NFL, which will also be shown on NFL Network at 9 p.m. ET Wednesday, the outspoken cornerback tells his teammates that Brady is "scared, his heart's gone. It's almost gone." 
 
Sure, Brady's heart is gone. Give me a break. 
 
 
What the fuck do you expect him to say?
 
"Hey Wag, nice interception. But he's probably gonna keep throwing on you and complete most, if not all of those passes."
 

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Al Zarilla said:
Sometimes he is so full of shit it's coming out his ears, like when he said about Brady, maybe after the interception by Wagner: "In a wired segment for Inside The NFL, which will also be shown on NFL Network at 9 p.m. ET Wednesday, the outspoken cornerback tells his teammates that Brady is "scared, his heart's gone. It's almost gone." 
 
Sure, Brady's heart is gone. Give me a break. 
Really?  It's the Super Bowl.  You're trying to pump up your teammates every chance you get.
 
 

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I loved when Sherman caught himself and said "it's almost gone". As if he realized you need to make sure TB12 is good and buried because the Pats play for 60 minutes.
 

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Would Sherman speak out publicly and carry on like he does if he were on the Patriots?  I bet he'd be muzzled right away.
 

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drbretto said:
That is so not how it sounded in my head when I read the transcripts. That sounds like a funny story about the kinds of trash talking that probably goes on behind the scenes all the time. Putting myself in those shoes and I'd do the same thing, then laugh about it.

He got a taste of his own medicine at the super bowl. Got to be a meme for a day. The price of being the kind of guy he is, which is about 98% pretty admirable from what I'm reading herE, is occasionally putttung his foot in his mouth. Whoopity doo. You have to dig through the media blasted soundbytes to appreciate what he brings to the game. Kinda like a certain team we root for.
I disagree with your last two sentences. For the stuff he has pulled over the last two years, Sherman is treated incredibly well by the media (I suspect because he is always available for a soind bite or to talk).
If Marshawn Lynch pulled some of the shit that Sherman has he would be crucified by the national media. Sherman gets the Stanford qualifier and is never really taken to task.

The only incident that I thought was really bad was the Crabtree thing. He should've got punched in the face for doing that. That is such a punk move it is unbelievable. Going up to someone immediately after they lost a Championship game and doing what he did is just ridiculous.
Not only that but isn't the whole reason why he got so upset because Crabtree had the gall to say something to him or talk trash back during the game? If Sherman is so cool with talking trash and understands the nature of it, why did he take it so personally when it was thrown back at him?
 

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tims4wins said:
I loved when Sherman caught himself and said "it's almost gone". As if he realized you need to make sure TB12 is good and buried because the Pats play for 60 minutes.
 
I mean shit, man, this isn't Peyton Manning we're talking about here.
 

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MarcSullivaFan said:
Sherman's shtick is contrived and unoriginal. I've yet to hear a funny word come out of his mouth.

That said, he's a great player and I have no problem with him doing his thing. My impression is that outside of his heel persona, he's a pretty good dude.
 
That's kind of the problem. He's boring. He's loud and makes his presence known and has nothing to say.
 

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The Social Chair said:
I really don't understand how anybody could dislike Sherman. The 24 and Brady stuff is so innocuous. Patriot players have done stuff like that over the years and it doesn't bother me at all.
 
Really?  Sherman sitting on the sideline in the middle of the Super Bowl and mocking Revis....and you don't understand how anyone can dislike him?