Xander Bogaerts and patience

[Rasputin]

You both are misunderstanding me. I completely get that Bogaerts is a work in progress and I think dropping him was defensible and a well informed decision. I'm more just annoyed by the fact that Speier's article treats his demotion as though its a sign that management is "losing patience" with him. It feels to me like Speier is making the point that you think I am making.

 
I don't think Speier was making the point that you think that joe dokes thinks that you are making.
 
I think the Red Sox have had some talks about what to do if Xander blows chunks.
 
I think this is the responsible thing for them to do.
 
I think the moving of Bogaerts down in the lineup had nothing whatsoever to do with his performance in the first two games and everything to do with there being different players in the game.
 
I think nothing Speier wrote either yesterday or today conflicts with the previous statement.
 
I mean, holy fuck guys, for you to believe any changes were predicated on his performance so far, you have to believe that the people who made those changes are fucking morons to the nth degree, and while there are always going to be things the manager does that we disagree with, we know that John Farrell aint that dumb. We know that Ben Cherington aint that dumb.

 

[drbretto]

You both are misunderstanding me. I completely get that Bogaerts is a work in progress and I think dropping him was defensible and a well informed decision. I'm more just annoyed by the fact that Speier's article treats his demotion as though its a sign that management is "losing patience" with him. It feels to me like Speier is making the point that you think I am making.

Ohh, I gotcha. My apologies. Written word and all that, I didn't sense the right kind of sarcasm

 

[touchstone033]

I think most of us see the start of a season as a reboot for the player. In that sense, mulling XB's hitting looks ridiculous after two games. But does the offseason truly grant a player a reboot, a new chance? It's just a few months off from baseball, it doesn't necessarily mark a definitive change in the player, but rather an arbitrary beginning and endpoint we see on the back of baseball cards. Seen in that context, the quotes or story doesn't seem that rash. 

 

[TigerBlood]

I think most of us see the start of a season as a reboot for the player. In that sense, mulling XB's hitting looks ridiculous after two games. But does the offseason truly grant a player a reboot, a new chance? It's just a few months off from baseball, it doesn't necessarily mark a definitive change in the player, but rather an arbitrary beginning and endpoint we see on the back of baseball cards. Seen in that context, the quotes or story doesn't seem that rash. 

I agree that that context makes the article seem less reactionary, but I do think players, if so motivated, can make impactful changes to their game over an offseason that make the endpoints something less than completely arbitrary. Especially a younger guys.

 

[NoXInNixon]

 
No, from the sound of Speier's story, the Sox were talking about what to do if Bogaerts continued to struggle. That's not panic, that's responsible. That's even more true when you consider the fact that the answer isn't remotely obvious.

I think the answer is completely obvious. You give him an entire season at SS to see what he can do. You don't want him looking over his shoulder during every slump. You tell him he's the shortstop of the Red Sox for 2015, and stick with that unless he gives you something absolutely hideous. Then re-evaluate him after the season when you have large enough sample.

 

[WenZink]

I think most of us see the start of a season as a reboot for the player. In that sense, mulling XB's hitting looks ridiculous after two games. But does the offseason truly grant a player a reboot, a new chance? It's just a few months off from baseball, it doesn't necessarily mark a definitive change in the player, but rather an arbitrary beginning and endpoint we see on the back of baseball cards. Seen in that context, the quotes or story doesn't seem that rash. 

 A very interesting point.  Do young players see a new season as a new chance?  Did a player with great expectations, like Bogaerts, get depressed by his stat averages late in the season?  All I can relate to is college, and how every new semester I approached my studies with a new enthusiasm versus the resignation to mediocrity that a 20 year old had at the end of the previous semester.

 

[Pilgrim]

3 strikeouts in his first 26 PAs.  That is extremely encouraging.  

 

[geoduck no quahog]

I thought it was decided fairly early on that Betts was going to bat lead-off with Pedroia in the second spot and the catcher ninth. That left Ortiz, Ramirez, Napoli, Sandoval in some order for 3-6, which leaves 7/8 for Victorino/Bogaerts.

 
Yep. I just don't see where the dramatic changes could be, particularly when Castillo enters the lineup. The fact is that the lineup is so stacked that someone has to hit in front of the catcher and it might as well be the guy with the toughest fielding job.
 
Amazing.

 

[ivanvamp]

More fun with small sample sizes.
 
Bogaerts first two games:  1-7, .143/.250/.143/.393
 
Bogaerts last five games:  12-23, 7 rbi, .522/.577/.651/1.229
 
On the year through seven games:  .433/.500/.533/1.033
 
And so far, it seems to me, a bit under the radar.  
 
As for the two big newcomers, Hanley and Panda:
 
Hanley:  .296/.375/.630/1.005, 3 hr, 7 rbi
Panda:  .324/.378/.324/.702, 0 hr, 3 rbi

 

[The X Man Cometh]

I know this board generally frowns upon "eye test" type commentary, but it seems like Xander has hit a ton of grounders and fly balls which have found grass. His BABIP is .481 which doesn't help dissuade me of that notion.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

I'm more impressed with the eye test on his fielding than his hitting. He looks improved, which gives hope that he'll continue to improve (why wouldn't he).

 

[kieckeredinthehead]

I know this board generally frowns upon "eye test" type commentary, but it seems like Xander has hit a ton of grounders and fly balls which have found grass. His BABIP is .481 which doesn't help dissuade me of that notion.

 
In his first two years in the majors, Xander struck out in about 23% of his PAs. This year he's at 9%. Totally agree that he's been very lucky on balls in play, but he's also been putting a lot more balls in play. It really seems obvious that Chili is having Xander work on making contact, especially to the opposite field. As he builds up that ability, they'll likely have him focus back on when to switch to his power swing. As electric as Mookie has been, it's been almost equally fun to watch how a team teaches an elite prospect like Bogaerts how to be a major league player.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Uh oh...
 
 

Brian MacPherson ‏@brianmacp  3m3 minutes ago
Xander Bogaerts is getting an MRI on a right knee he hurt when he stumbled rounding third on Monday.

https://twitter.com/brianmacp/status/588061939898654720

 

[soxhop411]

@RyanHannable: Farrell said Bogaerts hurt the knee rounding 3B yesterday. Stayed in the game. Came in today w/ increased symptoms, so team sent him for MRI

 

[BrazilianSoxFan]

<img src='http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4wj1gu08e1qe4f8y.gif' alt='Posted Image' class='bbc_img' />
</br>
<img src='https://31.media.tumblr.com/7e1fdc034a59e57b9382e7821fd0ac28/tumblr_inline_ndd3k594EH1s7p2c6.gif' alt='Posted Image' class='bbc_img' />

 

[radsoxfan]

Who plays SS if Xander is out 4-6 weeks with a torn meniscus?  Can Holt full-time, or close to full-time?  Marrero up from AAA?  Trade?

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I know this board generally frowns upon "eye test" type commentary, but it seems like Xander has hit a ton of grounders and fly balls which have found grass. His BABIP is .481 which doesn't help dissuade me of that notion.

I'd be worried if his BA was .280 with a BABIP of .480. Since its .431/.480 it's understood that both will regress in relation. So yea, your eyes probably aren't lying about either.

 

[benhogan]

Who plays SS if Xander is out 4-6 weeks with a torn meniscus?  Can Holt full-time, or close to full-time?  Marrero up from AAA?  Trade?

I'd like to see a combo of Weeks/Holt over a month if X is out that long.
 
Let Marrero continue to develop at AAA, get steady at-bats, and continue his strong start at the plate.
 
If Xander isn't ready in 6 weeks then consider moving Merrero up (if Holt/Weeks are not getting it done)

 

[pokey_reese]

Any long term injury to his knee would make this season a lot less fun. That said, it would be interesting to see if the team would try to let Holt play the position full time in order to get his bat in the lineup, or if they would be willing to accept the lesser bat of Marrero in exchange for a great defensive infield. I would think that at this point, as long as he is getting every day ABs, the concern won't be about stunting his development, so it's more about the better fit for the big league club's immediate needs.

 

[jimbobim]

Any long term injury to his knee would make this season a lot less fun. That said, it would be interesting to see if the team would try to let Holt play the position full time in order to get his bat in the lineup, or if they would be willing to accept the lesser bat of Marrero in exchange for a great defensive infield. I would think that at this point, as long as he is getting every day ABs, the concern won't be about stunting his development, so it's more about the better fit for the big league club's immediate needs.

I'm holding out it's not long term ,but with the way this rotation is constructed, one would have to think they'd promote Marrero for the supposedly elite glove and keep Holt as the necessary insurance plan around the infield/entire diamond. 

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I'd expect Marrero to come up and get all of Masterson's starts, and maybe Porcello and Kelly's too. With Clay and Miley I'd go with Holt while having DM available for late innings.

 

[semsox]

This seems a bit complicated since it happened so early in the season before Marrero got a significant number of AB's. Going into the year I would have guessed he would be called up in the event of anything longer term (4 weeks+) happening to Bogaerts, but also figured that he'd have over 100 AB's by the time anything would have happened. Additionally, he's not currently on the 40 man, so there would need to be some accompanying moves to bring him up.

 

[Van Everyman]

Edit: Ok, I'd hate it if I read "RIP" anything without context so let me just say people seem to be jumping to conclusions here. Can we wait for a diagnosis before we start guessing about whether he'll be back by the ASB?

 

[soxhop411]

@redsoxstats: Maybe should be noted that when the PawSox just resumed their game from yesterday Deven Marrero was replaced. Re: Bogaerts

 

[foulkehampshire]

Hopefully it's nothing. Boegarts was looking vastly improved in the field and at the plate.

 

[radsoxfan]

Edit: Ok, I'd hate it if I read "RIP" anything without context so let me just say people seem to be jumping to conclusions here. Can we wait for a diagnosis before we start guessing about whether he'll be back by the ASB?

 
Speculating about what happens at SS IF Xander is out any length of time counts as jumping to conclusions? 
 
If the MRI turns out to show nothing and he's back in the lineup tomorrow, that's great.  Not sure that means we have to wait until a definitive diagnosis to discuss the potential options. I certainly hope the thought has crossed Cherington's mind already.

 

[soxhop411]

@alexspeier: Farrell: Bogaerts MRI is clean. Might be able to play Wednesday. Sandoval has no structural issues based on scan done at Fenway

 

[Kull]

@alexspeier: Farrell: Bogaerts MRI is clean. Might be able to play Wednesday. Sandoval has no structural issues based on scan done at Fenway

 
Insert here: Matrix gif of Keanu Reeves on rooftop

 

[brandonchristensen]

Nice.

 

[LondonSox]

Phew. I think Marrero is excellent defensively, and not a COMPLETE zero with the bat so it wouldn't be quite as bad as I felt when i saw the MRI tweet and the Marrero being pulled mid game info. But glad to hear, I'd be more worried on the long term/ development angle of X himself more than anything. He needs to play.